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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
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 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 301
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline DelayedPage 13 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
I'm always amazed when a poster comes on to say nothing more than that they will ignore another poster from now on. The good Buckeyette has gotten under your skin hasn't she Overunity?

The prospect of Shale and Tar Sands oil has scared the kwap out of OPEC to the point they're going to keep the market price low for as long as possible and as Irish has pointed out make these incredibly polluting and future endangering "alternatives" impractical for quite some time. I'll never forgive the Saudis for nurturing and funding the 15 of 19 911 terrorists they did but I am happy they're doing this however avaricious the motive. For those worried about the economy with all due respect and IMO shame on you for jeopardizing the air we breathe and water we drink for no reason other than maintaining teh gross indulgences of an industry that has never had the interest of common men and women at heart. We know conservation works, and we know there are a number of far cleaner available technologies that could be deployed in relatively short order despite the deceitful claims of resource extraction interests. You may not care about the future beyond your own lifespan but some of us actually have children and other loved ones we don't want to leave an entirely unnecessary and colossal mess for.

"Think! It's very patriotic!" Especially when done critically and with decency in mind.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 302
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 7:05:35 AM
The only thing that continues to confound me about the pipeline discussion, is that a huge number of people keep repeating the FALSE notion that this will result in cheaper fuel for the United States, and freedom from foreign oil (or at least from Arabian oil).

Since NONE of this stuff being piped or railroaded through our country is destined for our gas tanks, and since as much as it is, is a drop compared to what we use from overseas sources, why do people keep pretending that there's any financial reward other than the jobs from building and maintaining the pipeline?

I have to investigate a technical concern about it too. Since the stuff that Canada wants to ship through our lands to save themselves money is chemically different than the stuff we already pipe from our own fields to Louisiana, does that mean that the Canadian stuff has to go through entirely separate pipes, or can it all get mixed together on the way? Pipes aren't like trains, after all, in that with a train, you fill each tanker with separate stuff. They CAN ship tankers with different kinds of stuff in them, all on one train trip.
 theleathernun
Joined: 7/6/2014
Msg: 303
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 7:31:54 AM

Anything you post now on any thread will wear out my scroll button by passing it over. Any credibility you had here is history.

Oh Jesus help us. Do you believe your opinion is anywhere close to that important? You types are all alike.

Nobody gives a flying fig about what you find credible or will "pass over". What ever in the world is it that makes you think anyone else cares?

FYI, overunity, I think you are now the newest victim of their "stalker" profile.

Now my feelings are hurt. I thought it was imitating me that made "wee willie" stand but now you are imitating her. You two-faced **stard.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 304
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 7:51:54 AM
Ms. Nun, I know you probably haven't had any relationships with guys so I will enlighten you...guys like this poster have the small man/small penis complex. This poster, as well as the one now referred to as Becky, both have this. All talk, no action. The closed mind doesn't help either but teabaggers and Birthers are known for this.
 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 305
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 12:35:35 PM
^^^ and even more fake profiles coming to the rescue. LMAO!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to investigate a technical concern about it too. Since the stuff that Canada wants to ship through our lands to save themselves money is chemically different than the stuff we already pipe from our own fields to Louisiana, does that mean that the Canadian stuff has to go through entirely separate pipes, or can it all get mixed together on the way?


Igor, yes, it all WOULD pipe through the same pipeline:


A boom in North American oil production has helped drive a flurry of proposals to build or expand pipelines, including TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s proposed Keystone XL, now under review by the U.S. State Department.

Keystone would move mostly crude from Alberta’s oil sands to refineries on the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, though it would also be fed oil from North Dakota.


www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-10/north-dakota-oil-transport-risk-revealed-in-quebec-blast.html

....but since that pipeline is being held up, much of this crude must be shipped via rail in hundreds of thousands of tanker cars thousands of miles to their destinations, by those magical ELECTRIC locomotives that burn millions of gallons of diesel fuel accomplishing that task.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 306
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 12:40:45 PM
"Fake profiles". This coming from the a-hole who's had 3 profiles going in the last month. Too funny. You'd think you'd come back smarter.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 307
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 1:48:09 PM
Sort of a recap:

Here are the reasons I have heard given, in favor of the pipeline:

* The US will get jobs from it's being built and maintained. (said to be not that many jobs)

* It might be safer for the environment than continuing to allow the wrong kind of railroad tanker cars to be used to transport it.(we don't have to allow inappropriate tankers to roll through our lands)

* The oil produced will cause the price of oil, and the need for oil from elsewhere, to fall. (no syupport for this claim, since the oil is destined for elsewhere)


Arguments against:

* it goes through the midwest's primary aquifer, and might leak or burst there, destroying a large part of American Agricultural production. (not proven, and has been suggested to be exaggerated)

Everything else that's been said has been either an attempt to refute one of the above, or a paranoid rant, or an obvious and falsehood-based political jibe at one side or another.

Frankly, I have yet to have witnessed anyone come up with a truly compelling argument on either side. And so many people are eager to exaggerate or outright lie to support one side or the other, the entire discussion is pretty confused.

Did I miss anything important?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 308
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 2:45:59 PM

I have to investigate a technical concern about it too. Since the stuff that Canada wants to ship through our lands to save themselves money is chemically different than the stuff we already pipe from our own fields to Louisiana, does that mean that the Canadian stuff has to go through entirely separate pipes, or can it all get mixed together on the way?

Igor, yes, it all WOULD pipe through the same pipeline:

To answer your question... CORRECTLY... the answer is NO... it would not all get mixed together...

This is because different grades of crude require different refining processes... process which are not necessarily compatible... if it were mixed... it would have to be "unmixed"... or separated... in a facility designed for that before it can be refined...

Plus... producers pay for the pipeline capacity they use... through a competitive bidding process... I don't think too many will be interested in other companies "piggy backing" off the pipeline capacity they paid top dollar for...
Keystone would move mostly crude from Alberta’s oil sands to refineries on the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, though it would also be fed oil from North Dakota.

The problem here is... because it can't just be "mixed together"... is that the different grades of crude have to be piped separately... if the line is carrying Alberta crude... it can't carry ND crude in the same section... and... if it is carrying ND crude... it can't carry Alberta crude in the same section... the different grades have to enter and transit the pipeline separately...

As to all your uniformed ranting about Lac Megantic... Even if Keystone had been operational at the time... it would have done absolutely zilch to prevent... or avoid... the accident...

If you want to know why... ask yourself these questions... where did the oil come from...? and... where was the oil going...? If you know those answers... you should know why it was in rail cars in the first place... and... you might then understand why Keystone could never have prevented it...

What might have helped prevent it... however... would have been the ignorant boneheads in ND... actually properly identifying and labeling the material... Those American a$$holes identified it in a way that made it appear to be less dangerous than it actually was... And... if the cheapskate American operators hadn't ignored maintenance needs and proper maintenance procedures... and followed appropriate safety procedures even though they are a bit more expensive... something about "cost-cutting" and "profit levels"...
 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 309
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 3:06:28 PM

* The oil produced will cause the price of oil, and the need for oil from elsewhere, to fall. (no support for this claim, since the oil is destined for elsewhere)


Aha...Mostly FALSE .

This is one of those " falsehood-based political jibe" soundbytes you referred to that is splattered around, & you believe it. The agendists saturate the forums with this dumba$$ crap that they believe, because they read it on some agendist blogsite, or on some anti-pipeline website & it supports their agenda.


The United States IMPORTS much of this Canadian oil sands-derived crude oil for domestic consumption .

You are being made to believe that all this crude oil will flow straight through the country from its oil fields in Canada, straight to some ocean tanker, & shipped out, as if we are just simply a transportation whore for this oil. That is simply NOT TRUE.

Canadian oil sands-derived crude oil is just one part of our multi-source energy portfolio. Millions of gallons of it goes to refinery in thousands of railroad cars that criss-cross the country 24/7 in rail tanker cars, pulled by those magical "ELECTRIC" locomotives, which burn millions of gallons of diesel fuel, because some crybabies dont want a pipeline to pipe it to refinery.



Oil companies generate substantial quantities of crude oil and related substances from the natural bitumen in oil sands, particularly deposits in Alberta, Canada. In 2012, the United States imported 438 million barrels of oil sands-derived crude oils, 125% more than in 2005.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43390.pdf

To be clear, yes, some of it DOES go straight to some ocean tanker....AFTER US oil companies refine this CANADIAN crude, earning outside $$$ that helps reduce the trade deficit, while increasing GDP. The USA reaps this revenue, along with revenue from the piping fees associated with operating a pipeline.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 310
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 3:35:45 PM
Pipelines carry different Grades of Fuel Oils all the Time.... They put a Slug in between the different types of Fuel Oils or Fuels.
 the_summerwind
Joined: 9/11/2014
Msg: 311
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 3:36:01 PM

As the price of oil falls due to OPEC and an oil glut on the market-price is further depressed by economic conditions in both Europe and China which are on the verge of another recession. It will be very hard for oil prices to rise as fast as they've fallen.


Yes, very good point....... & it will fall even a little bit more in what you said..... as OPEC wants to keep their full production to stay in the hunt without losing its shares in the open market.... nonetheless as less is better then even lesser profit ....
That being said the same goes for the Keystone XL Pipeline Project....is now a mute point to build till likewise in price of higher oil prices go up again to justify its cost to build for a profit.....

$1.99 a gal for gas in the near future here......^^^^^ till May...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 312
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/14/2014 4:45:59 PM

Pipelines carry different Grades of Fuel Oils all the Time.... They put a Slug in between the different types of Fuel Oils or Fuels.

Fuel oils are not unrefined crude... And... more to the point... they aren't mixed together... they don't enter the line together... and... there is still only one type of material in any section of pipe at any one time... in order to pipe another type of material... they have to wait until the previous material has passed... in other words... if you are carrying two different materials in the same pipe you are carrying proportionately less of each material at any given time... pipelines have a limited capacity and cannot carry more than that... In other words... you are carrying a lot of one thing... or only a little bit of many things... at a time...

To make it more clear... if a producer puts out 1,000 bbls/day... but can only access 500 bbls of pipeline capacity/day because the remaining capacity is used by other producers... they still have 500 bbls/day that have to be moved some other way... And this is multiplied by the several other producers who face the same issue...

Somehow... I get the impression that none of you... the pro-Keystone guys that is... actually understand why Keystone was proposed in the first place... because it had... and has... little if anything to do with anything you have ranted on about...

I have no problem with the Phase 4 expansion... for the same reason the people who thought of it consider it a good idea... but... I suspect most of you would be less supportive... if you knew more than just what you've been fed by conservative mouthpieces...
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 313
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/16/2014 7:53:57 PM
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr — 'Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.'
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 314
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/16/2014 9:21:16 PM
So before Keystone and its particular mix of shale oil and other chemicals becomes a victim of the Saudi-led OPEC market-dumping, the Russian ruble is being halved in value. Russians are out buying durable goods, hoping that investment won't lose value as fast as the money in their bank. Not that it may kick them out of Ukraine just yet.

Iran's feelin' some pain, too. Oil needs to be $130 per barrel for them to overcome their sanctions.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 315
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 3:03:57 AM
^^^
Some of these oil producing nations will have trouble for sure.In North America,price support might be needed for the national security of the U.S and Canada.Continuing to rely on the middle east is just asking for trouble.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 316
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 12:47:56 PM

Kurt Vonnegut, Jr — 'Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.'
Yuppers ... we bailed out a car company that did nothing with the money except build more gas guzzling SUV's that people buy so they can pimp them out with their "boom-boom" speakers and then there are the pickup trucks to jack up and cruise the roads with. That's about the mental capacity of the people making such decisions for our nation.

Yes ... drunk on petroleum is a good description.

Our nation refuses to invest in "green" energy and here in Ohio, our esteemed governor just killed the prospects of us developing the wind energy as well. Whoo hoo ... look what we can do! With the republicans in office, we should get a lot done towards saving our environment for our future generations.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 317
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 1:13:42 PM


Our nation refuses to invest in "green" energy and here in Ohio, our esteemed governor just killed the prospects of us developing the wind energy as well.


Why? So You could come back & complain about all the Birds killed by the Wind Farms?
 overunity
Joined: 8/16/2014
Msg: 318
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 1:57:23 PM
And let's not forget about all the diesel/electric locomotives that crisscross our nations on electricity alone, lmfao. And those diesel trucks bringing food to our supermarkets to feed us.
 Countryheart1967
Joined: 5/19/2014
Msg: 319
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 2:25:10 PM
Wind energy will never be a viable resource for anything other than small scale.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about enviroment, I've just become enlightened enough to understand that most of the concepts for alternative energy are not going to work in reality.

Nuclear power, despite it's reputation, is one of the cleanest and actually works.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 320
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 2:29:57 PM

Wind energy will never be a viable resource for anything other than small scale.


Why is that?
 Countryheart1967
Joined: 5/19/2014
Msg: 321
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Posted: 12/17/2014 2:55:42 PM

Why is that?


I assume you have an internet connection? If so, then you do not need to ask me when you have all the answers you seek before you. :/
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 322
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 3:21:50 PM

I assume you have an internet connection? If so, then you do not need to ask me when you have all the answers you seek before you. :/


Thanks for that, but see I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt seeing as all the info I could find that supports your claim, seemed to be made by people who do not have the first clue as to what they are rambling on about.

So sorry for assuming you has some new or other information I was not privy to.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 323
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 3:26:39 PM
Let's not forget all the bats that will die from those wind farms as well.Then they won't eat the bugs .The world will end.

:)
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 324
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/17/2014 3:46:40 PM
C'mon HFX ... maybe he's new to this part of the forums and doesn't realize that it's rather customary to post a link to where he got his information ... or something that might give us a clue about what he's talking about.

Wind energy will never be a viable resource for anything other than small scale.
Well, it was going to be a good deal here in Ohio until our esteemed governor killed it. I wonder who's paying him off this time?

http://www.toledoblade.com/Featured-Editorial-Home/2014/06/06/Wind-jammer.html
The General Assembly is intent on killing Ohio’s wind-power industry, but Gov. Kasich doesn’t have to be

It‘‍s plenty bad enough that Gov. John Kasich is preparing to sign a bill that would cripple Ohio’s useful standard for promoting renewable energy, including wind power. It’s intolerable that lawmakers have now sent him legislation that would effectively halt expansion of the state’s wind industry.

If Mr. Kasich won’t veto the broader measure — and he still should — he at least needs to delete the anti-wind-power provision that lawmakers doing the bidding of old-energy interest groups slipped into an unrelated budget bill. Ohio, and especially northwest Ohio, can’t afford this attack on economic growth, job creation, and energy diversification.

State law requires wind turbines to be sited at least 1,125 feet from inhabited residential structures; lawmakers increased that setback from 750 feet last year. In this year’s budget bill, lawmakers revised the 1,125-foot setback rule to apply to a turbine’s distance from neighboring property lines, not just homes.

Republican senators who muscled the change through offered bogus justifications about improving the quality of life of people who live next to wind farms. But the practical effect of the provision would be to force developers to assemble so much land — unnecessarily — for a wind farm as to make such projects uneconomical. That would encourage them to invest in other states instead.

Ohio’s largest wind project, the Blue Creek farm in Paulding and Van Wert counties, aims to include 152 turbines that can generate more than 300 megawatts. The project is designed to power as many as 76,000 homes a year. It also is creating hundreds of construction and permanent jobs, contributing $2.7 million a year to local schools and governments, making $2 million in annual lease payments to landowners, and generating $25 million a year in local spending.

But wind industry officials say that if the restrictions in the measure before Mr. Kasich had been in effect during Blue Creek’s planning stages, the project could have included no more than 19 turbines. Another 10 wind projects in advanced stages of development are in danger of cancellation if the governor approves the provision, they add. The $1.2 billion private investment already made in Ohio wind projects would become a ceiling, not a foundation.

The federal government is ordering all states to curb pollution from coal-fired power plants to limit the effects of man-made climate change. Yet Ohio’s government is about to handcuff the state’s ability to promote options other than dirty fossil fuels — notably clean energy and energy efficiency.

That is good news for traditional energy industries that throw their weight around at the Statehouse. It is bad news for Ohio’s economy and public health.

With their usual concern for public accountability, senators abruptly added the noxious wind-turbine provision to the budget bill with scant testimony and debate. Governor Kasich can reject the amendment without vetoing the entire budget measure.

In the interest of transparency as well as good policy, it’s the least he can do
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 325
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 12/18/2014 12:10:25 PM
Hydrofracking Ban Across New York State ... looks like someone is on the right track ...

I guess there was some concern about what the state health department found about the quality of water ... when it comes to people drinking the water or even letting vegetables grow in the soil.
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