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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
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 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 451
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Here comes the FIREBALL EXPRESSPage 19 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)

CN cleaning up after train derailment, spill near Carberry
By: Graeme Bruce
Posted: 03/13/2015 3:00 AM |

Crews pressed ahead Thursday with operations to clean up 30,000 litres of bitumen spilled from a rail tanker after 13 cars derailed on Canadian National Railway's main line in western Manitoba.

The cars on the eastbound train left the rails after 7 p.m. Wednesday just north of Carberry, about 50 kilometres northeast of Brandon.

No injuries were reported and CN said the spill was contained after crews were dispatched to the scene under the company's emergency response plan. No waterways have been impacted.

The cars were carrying refinery cracking stock, a non-regulated type of bitumen, a petroleum product. Refined Bitumen is the residual (bottom) fraction obtained by fractional distillation of crude oil. It is the heaviest fraction and the one with the highest boiling point, boiling at 525 °C (977 °F).

CN crews had reopened the main track to traffic by 5 a.m., with repair work on an adjacent siding proceeding through the day. The cause of the derailment is under investigation.

Trains carrying oil products go through that area about once a week, he said.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 452
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/6/2015 6:12:08 PM
Isn't it wonderful that with the new people in charge in ALBERTA ... have decided not to spend any more government money trying to convince the US to approve the pipeline!

 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 453
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/9/2015 3:56:26 PM

Isn't it wonderful that with the new people in charge in ALBERTA ... have decided not to spend any more government money trying to convince the US to approve the pipeline!

It will be interesting to see how many Republican "friends of Keystone"... shut up about it when all the schmoozing by lobbyists and the second and third hand political donations start to dry up...
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 454
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/9/2015 5:18:05 PM
After reading this thread, I decided to look into what exactly the Keystone would handle. What I found out surprised me.

First of all, the Alberta oil has to be mined. Not pumped out of the ground. Why? Because it's in a semi-solid state. This junk has to be pushed through a pipeline. Then, by heat extraction, the oil comes out of what is known as tar sand. This is about as stupid as it can get. There are five other pipeline coming from Alberta that can handle this already. But they don't want to push it through, because of its abrasive nature. Makes sense. But it's so damed hard to process, not many refineries really want to fool with it.

Ok, just for a moment, let's say the pipeline is built. Years down the road from the time it's turned on, a break occurs. How does it get cleaned up? By earthmoving equipment, and hauled away by dump trucks. They get to deal with greasy kitty litter, basically. Better question. They refine this junk in the states. What's to be done with the solid portion? They sure aren't shipping it back to Alberta. Make asphalt out of it? Are we paving the state of Louisiana?

This doesn't produce much oil. Oil prices have to rise enough to make the junk profitable. It's like gold. Gold can be found in a lot of areas. Problem is, if it costs $15 bucks a ton to mine it, and it only has $5 dollars of gold in it, then it's not worth fooling with.

Money has to be put into research, to come up with a way to extract this oil, at a profit. Not put into shipping the stuff. Yeah, I was for the Keystone, for a while. Now that I know what it is, no.
 bryincalgary
Joined: 2/25/2015
Msg: 455
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 7:18:34 AM
This "junk" does not have to be pushed through a pipeline.They dilute it.An easier option would just be to refine it here and then we can quit having to put up with all the whiners and naysayers.They aren't giving up their luxury SUV's just yet no matter how green they claim to be.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 456
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:34:58 AM


First of all, the Alberta oil has to be mined. Not pumped out of the ground. Why? Because it's in a semi-solid state. This junk has to be pushed through a pipeline. Then, by heat extraction, the oil comes out of what is known as tar sand. This is about as stupid as it can get.


you should read how much water (from the largest fresh water inland delta in the world) is used for extraction for each barrel of oil, (which they don't pay for btw) the numbers are staggering

it's all good tho' the toxic aftermath sits in contained, lol, tailing ponds or is pumped back into the ground ( in situ removal)

fracking idiots
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 457
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:44:07 AM
huh, so watered down abrasive gets pushed thru a metal pipe.

anyone work with metal? know what pressurized abrasive does to metal?

if we can't get modernized tanker cars to move this stuff, what are the chances we're going to put up some double-wall pipeline that will be more modern than the modern tankers? And after all that's done, Saudi Arabia will drop oil prices and fracking will stop as tanker ships pile up off our coast.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 458
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 3:51:44 PM

if we can't get modernized tanker cars to move this stuff, what are the chances we're going to put up some double-wall pipeline that will be more modern than the modern tankers? And after all that's done, Saudi Arabia will drop oil prices and fracking will stop as tanker ships pile up off our coast.
I honestly don't understand why we'd want to deal with this horrible stuff ... at all.

http://www.foe.org/projects/climate-and-energy/tar-sands/keystone-xl-pipeline
An environmental crime in progress

Dirty tar sands oil
Pollution from tar sands oil greatly eclipses that of conventional oil. During tar sands oil production alone, levels of carbon dioxide emissions are three to four times higher than those of conventional oil, due to more energy-intensive extraction and refining processes. The Keystone XL pipeline would carry 830,000 barrels of dirty tar sands oil into the United States daily, and result in climate-damaging emissions equal to adding more than 5.6 million new cars to U.S. roads.

Water waste and pollution
During the tar sands oil extraction process, vast amounts of heat, water and chemicals are needed to separate the tarry substance (known as bitumen) from sand, silt, and clay and to flow up the pipeline. The water used in the process comes from rivers and underground aquifers. It takes three barrels of water to extract each single barrel of oil. Ninety-five percent of the water used to extract the oil, which is about 2.4 million barrels per day, is so polluted that the water must be stored in large human-made pools, known as tailing ponds. As the heavy bitumen sinks to the bottom of these ponds, the toxic sludge, full of harmful substances like cyanide and ammonia, works its way into neighboring clean water supplies.

Forest Destruction
The tar sands oil are underneath the world’s largest intact ecosystem, the Boreal forests of Alberta. The forests not only serve as an important carbon sink, but its biodiversity and unspoiled bodies of water support large populations of many different species. They are a buffer against climate change as well as food and water shortages. However, in the process of digging up tar sands oil, the forests are destroyed. This valuable forest and its endangered caribou are both threatened by the pipeline.

Indigenous populations
Northern Alberta, the region where tar sands oil is extracted, is home to many indigenous populations. Important parts of their cultural traditions and livelihood are coming under attack because of tar sands operations. Not only have indigenous communities been forced off of their land, but also those living downstream from tailing ponds have seen spikes in rates of rare cancers, renal failure, lupus, and hyperthyroidism. In the lakeside village of Fort Chipewyan, for example, 100 of the town’s 1,200 residents have died from cancer.

These problems will only get worse, unless tar sands production is halted. Investing in a new pipeline would increase the rate of production, while decreasing the quality of life for indigenous populations.
 bryincalgary
Joined: 2/25/2015
Msg: 459
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 4:39:17 PM
So which disasters have caused more damage,pipelines or offshore drilling and tankers?

As for the natives,when they quit killing themselves with alcohol and poor food choices maybe we can get some good data.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 460
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/10/2015 6:59:05 PM

huh, so watered down abrasive gets pushed thru a metal pipe.

anyone work with metal? know what pressurized abrasive does to metal?

Ummm... look guys... They don't "push abrasives thru a metal pipe"... the bitumen is separated from the sand long before it ever hits the pipeline...

The reason it is difficult to pump is because it has a consistency like molasses... try sucking molasses through a straw some lazy Saturday afternoon...

It is harder on pipelines than other oils... but not because it is abrasive... but because it is more acidic than other grades...

And no... it isn't like "scooping kitty litter" to clean up... again, I suggest you try wiping up molasses... from your carpet... when you have nothing better to do...

and in the water...? be prepared to "strip mine" the river bottom with dredges... it shouldn't take too many years to recover... and with modern medicine... even one of us might live long enough to see it...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 461
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/11/2015 12:49:56 PM
I don't understand why the world needs this particular oil. Are we that hard up for "energy sources"? It seems to me it's not for anything but to line the pockets of a few who don't give a shyt about their world or future generations.

I go out of my way to recycle, start recycling programs everywhere, teach people about recycling, conserving energy, cut back on over-using water and natural resources, teach people to turn down their thermostats in winter and turn them up in summer ...

It has to be a group effort. We all need to stop being such energy hogs.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 462
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/11/2015 2:00:46 PM

I don't understand why the world needs this particular oil.

Good question... of course... you've already answered it...

With...

...being such energy hogs.

That... and of course... it has become a "tradition"... as well as a "liberal issue"... so naturally, the conservatives are all over it...

But wait... it gets better... Let's continue with our "molasses analogy" and see how that plays out in spill scenarios...

What analogy might cover a major storage tank failure...? Try this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster

A large molasses storage tank burst, and a wave of molasses rushed through the streets at an estimated 35 mph (56 km/h), killing 21 and injuring 150.


Or a spill into a major waterway...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_molasses_spill

Divers in the harbor area reported that all sea life was killed by the molasses, which instantly sank to the bottom of the harbor and caused widespread de-oxygenation. Various species of coral were injured or killed, and more than 26,000 fish and other marine species suffocated and died.


And those are just two potential benefits to America by extending XL...
 cold_coffee
Joined: 8/5/2014
Msg: 463
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/11/2015 10:07:44 PM

The reason it is difficult to pump is because it has a consistency like molasses... try sucking molasses through a straw


Nonsense. Bitumen is diluted with natural gas liquids to make it thinner. Alberta also has "upgraders" that refine raw bitumen into synthetic oil that is easier to pipeline and more profitable. There just aren't enough to keep up with increased production.

A much more alarming development is that most of the products used to dilute Alberta's bitumen exports are coming from fracker wells in the western United States. Because fracking is a chemical process, it tends to produce a much higher yield of light hydrocarbons used to dilute heavy oil. This is why fracking has become so popular in the United States despite the high cost and environmental risks. North Dakota's biggest exports is supplying Alberta with petroleum products to dilute bitumen. As North Dakota's oil industry expands in its own right, those producers are also looking for other markets to sell their dynamite oil. With all sorts of accidents occurring as a result.

The other leg of the project is that heat extraction of bitumen has created a new market for natural gas from Canada's Arctic. The Canadian government first tried to develop Arctic gas back in the 1970's. But the energy crisis ended before they could get the Mackenzie Valley pipeline up and running.

Not only has Alberta succeeded in building a strong energy industry that is creating good jobs and adding value to their exports. But the success of their project has revitalized energy production in the United States and other parts of Canada. No longer are we dependent on the Middle East and South America for our oil. We have a domestic "North American" energy policy. And we have Alberta to thank.

Long term, as the infrastructure and political will to transport non-conventional forms of oil comes into being, it will only make sense for Alberta to start refining more of their bitumen production in-house and become an exporter of gasoline, diesel and other petroleum products. Eliminating the need to refine petroleum in heavily populated areas. This is the kind of sustainable energy policy that the Canadian liberal party could only dream of. And it was the conservatives, particularly the late Premier Mr. Lougheed who brought it into being. It's just too bad that hateful, misguided and misinformed bigots like Joe refuse to recognize the amazing progress Alberta has made.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 464
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/12/2015 3:10:50 AM

Bitumen is diluted with natural gas liquids to make it thinner. Alberta also has "upgraders" that refine raw bitumen into synthetic oil that is easier to pipeline and more profitable.


Diluted bitumen is called ditbit..while it may not be molasses it sure behaves like molasses when combined with water:



When emergency responders rushed to Marshall, Mich. on July 26, 2010, they found that the Kalamazoo River had been blackened by more than one million gallons of oil. They didn't discover until more than a week later that the ruptured pipeline had been carrying diluted bitumen, also known as dilbit, from Canada's tar sands region. Cleaning it up would challenge them in ways they had never imagined. Instead of taking a couple of months, as they originally expected, nearly two years later the job still isn't complete.

Dilbit is harder to remove from waterways than the typical light crude oil—often called conventional crude—that has historically been used as an energy source.

While most conventional oils float on water, much of the dilbit sank beneath the surface. Submerged oil is significantly harder to clean up than floating oil: A large amount of oil remains in the riverbed near Marshall, and the cleanup is expected to continue through the end of 2012.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20120626/dilbit-primer-diluted-bitumen-conventional-oil-tar-sands-Alberta-Kalamazoo-Keystone-XL-Enbridge
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 465
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/12/2015 4:32:56 AM


The reason it is difficult to pump is because it has a consistency like molasses... try sucking molasses through a straw

Nonsense.

Oh really...? Nonsense you say...? Then why don't they just pump straight bitumen down the pipeline...? Why do they need to add lighter hydrocarbons to make it flow efficiently...?

Bitumen is diluted with natural gas liquids to make it thinner.

Yes they do... usually naptha... and for EXACTLY the reason you called "nonsense" ... because bitumen has a consistency like molasses... Ever tried sucking molasses through a straw... Are there any other nonsense "corrections" you would like to make a fool of yourself with...?
 bryincalgary
Joined: 2/25/2015
Msg: 466
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/12/2015 6:19:36 AM
The raw tar sands can be held in your hands like a lump.

We need nuke powered extraction to be more efficient.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 467
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/18/2015 8:28:43 AM

We need nuke powered extraction to be more efficient.


Hmmmm ... better get BN's permission to do that. He's the one in charge of determining who gets nuclear power or not ... right?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 468
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:19:31 AM
mungojoe - another question - why is Canada going through such pains to run as little of the pipeline through its own country? they like their water better than the Americans like theirs?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 469
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/19/2015 3:11:44 PM

mungojoe - another question - why is Canada going through such pains to run as little of the pipeline through its own country? they like their water better than the Americans like theirs?

That's a pretty snarky way to ask a "question"... especially when the information is readily available for anyone who cares to actually find out...

That said... here is the answer... Close to half of Keystone Phase One already runs through Canada... through three different provinces each one of which is about the size of Texas... Phase Four... the controversial one... is intended to carry US oil from Bakken as well as from Canada... This phase starts in Canada but could not carry Bakken oil to US refineries if it DIDN'T run mainly in the US...

As far as Canada goes... we already are working on two... The Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain Extension running west... and the Energy East Extension/Conversion running virtually the width of the country... For a grand total of almost three times the length of Keystone Phase Four...

In other words... They are building way more pipeline JUST for Canadian oil... ALL in Canada... than pipeline in the US that will also carry US oil...

And to think... you could have found ALL that on-line... without ever having to resort to asking strangers for an honest answer in a snarky manner...
 cold_coffee
Joined: 8/5/2014
Msg: 470
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:42:25 PM

As far as Canada goes... we already are working on two... The Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain Extension running west... and the Energy East Extension/Conversion running virtually the width of the country... For a grand total of almost three times the length of Keystone Phase Four...

In other words... They are building way more pipeline JUST for Canadian oil... ALL in Canada... than pipeline in the US that will also carry US oil...


Not true Joe. Natural resources belong to the provinces. And the province of Alberta wants to export oil to the United States.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 471
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:43:09 PM
What was snarky about it?

You provided a good answer. Thank you. That wasn't what I has heard from environmentalists so I am glad that you cleared it up.

So are you FOR the pipeline through the USA or AGAINST or you don't care?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 472
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/19/2015 7:53:45 PM


As far as Canada goes... we already are working on two... The Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain Extension running west... and the Energy East Extension/Conversion running virtually the width of the country... For a grand total of almost three times the length of Keystone Phase Four...

In other words... They are building way more pipeline JUST for Canadian oil... ALL in Canada... than pipeline in the US that will also carry US oil...



Not true Joe.

Really...?!? Not true you say...?!?

So then please... tell us just WHICH portions of the Kinder Morgan Extension and Energy East travel through the United States...? Or... Is it ALL in Canada...? If I am so wrong then please... do tell us...

And then tell us... from which US oil fields will they be transporting crude...? The Permian Basin fields maybe...? The pipelines will carry crude from which countries other than Canada... considering they start in Alberta...? Will they pick it up on that mysterious, invisible US leg...? If I am so wrong then please... do tell us...

And when you have finished that... please... do tell us... How long is the Keystone Phase Four extension...? And... How long is the combined Trans Mountain Extension/Energy East Extension/Conversion...? Which is longer...? and by what approximate proportion...? If I am so wrong then please... do tell us...

Natural resources belong to the provinces. And the province of Alberta wants to export oil to the United States.

Uh-huh... And that has just... what... of intelligence... to do with the two pipelines being wholly within Canada...? or carrying only Canadian crude...? or being much longer than Keystone Phase Four... Please do tell us...

What was snarky about it?

The accusatory character... as in the rather overt implication that Canada is simply detouring their pollution through the US... rather than their own country... because they think they are better than Americans...

So are you FOR the pipeline through the USA or AGAINST or you don't care?

I've already stated my position... quite some time back... and while I usually suggest "reading back"... because it would be tedious to answer the same question a dozen times or more in the same thread... I'll repeat it anyway... Just because you're cute...

I believe it is a good thing for Canada... As much as the "Let them freeze in the dark" types want to pretend otherwise... any major economic boon to any province is a boon to the entire country... That is because in Canada... there is a national system for "wealth redistribution" between the provinces... that moves money from "have" provinces to "have not" provinces... Alberta used to literally survive off that system...

However... I think many Americans would decide to oppose it... IF they knew the full scoop... Something more than the "manipulated, marketed and branded" political hype... So... as usual... I simply provide the bare unvarnished reality... just as I always do...

It's up to you guys to decide which way you want to go... You're the ones who have to live with the consequences of it...
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 473
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 4/23/2017 12:10:33 PM
Nebraska Farmer Politely Schools Fox News Host On Dangers Of Keystone XL Pipeline
“This type of fossil fuel should not be happening.”
By Alexander C. Kaufman


Nebraska farmer Art Tanderup urged the Trump administration on Friday to abandon plans to build the Keystone XL pipeline and focus instead on boosting renewable energy.

In a four-minute interview on Fox News, Tanderup ― who heads a group of about 90 Nebraska landowners trying to block the pipeline ― politely countered each of host Sandra Smith’s talking points as she repeatedly suggested his personal stake was the only real reason he opposed the project.

“Our premium goal would be to leave the tar sands in the ground and move more rapidly to renewable fuels,” said Tanderup, who owns a modest 160-acre farm passed down from his wife Helen’s grandfather.

Four days after his inauguration, President Donald Trump revived the Keystone XL project with an executive action inviting the Calgary-based pipeline builder TransCanada to reapply for permits to build. In 2015, then-President Barack Obama rejected the pipeline after seven years of deliberation, on the grounds that the environmental risks remained too great. If completed, the pipeline would carry tar sands ― a noxious mix of sand, clay, and viscous oil, considered one of the dirtiest and poorest-quality fuels ― from Canada to Texas to be refined for export.

For video and rest of story go to:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/art-tanderup-keystone_us_58fa85dbe4b018a9ce5b72f7?lq&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
 ItsImpeachmentTime
Joined: 11/17/2017
Msg: 474
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2017 2:27:37 PM
Draining the swamp and filling it up with dirty Oil, just conservative things.


No one wants the Keystone XL pipeline, but Nebraska just approved it anyway
The existing Keystone pipeline spilled over 200,000 gallons of oil last week.
Natasha Geiling
Nov 20, 2017, 12:06 pm

An independent, five-person panel voted to approve an alternative route for TransCanada’s Keystone XL pipeline on Monday in a major milestone for the controversial project.

But the decision to approve an alternative route for the pipeline, rather than TransCanada’s preferred route, could open up a new set of issues for the Canadian energy company, which may need to reapply for permits with the Bureau of Land Management and Army Corps of Engineers, as well as potentially obtain a new review from the State Department.

The decision comes just days after the existing Keystone pipeline leaked more than 200,000 gallons of crude oil in South Dakota, and a little more than two years after the Obama administration first denied the project’s cross-border permit on economic and climate reasons.


https://thinkprogress.org/nebraska-approves-keystone-xl-6942f7ce316e/?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds
 YouRAWancar
Joined: 12/29/2017
Msg: 475
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 1/2/2018 4:57:11 PM
Wow so much winning

I wonder if tRump will take credit for this seeing as he was the one to role back some regulations.



Coal mining deaths double in 2017
By Timothy Cama - 01/02/18 10:39 AM EST

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/367034-coal-mining-deaths-skyrocket-in-2017
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