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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 51
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline DelayedPage 3 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
Cleaning up the place to make it healthier? Give us a break. First strip off the boreal forest, create highly toxic, concentrated tailings ponds that can be seen from space, use up vast amounts of clean water and convert it to a toxic brew that will persist for centuries or more, concentrate the toxics from the bitumen and leak it into rivers, wells and streams, and condemn wildlife and waterfowl to death along the way. And somehow that boreal forest that evolved over millions of years is dirtier?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2010/sep/07/tarnished-earth-oil-sands

http://www.businessinsider.com/canada-tar-sands-pictures-2010-7#syncrude-the-biggest-refinery-in-the-middle-of-oil-sands-1

http://www.desmogblog.com/photo-essay-canada-s-filthy-tar-sands-why-keystone-xl-must-be-stopped
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 52
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2011 7:17:23 AM
How about a little perspective?


Give us a break. First strip off the boreal forest


Canada has 2 million square kilometers of boreal forest. All past, current and future plans for strip mining in this area will include 150 square kilometers. In comparison, coal mining activity in the United States alone has destroyed 1,800,000 acres since 1990 and there are very few mandated reclaimation areas. 97.5% of all oil sands mining is in situ mining which is similar to any other oil well development and doesn't include tailings ponds or stripping of forest.

So 150 square kilometers compared to 1.8 million. Reclaimation compared to no reclaimation.


use up vast amounts of clean water and convert it to a toxic brew that will persist for centuries or more


You're likely basking in past environmental glory here. 95% of the water used by these operations is now recycled. These businesses have license to use 1.8% of the water in the Athabasca river but in 2010 they only consumed 0.4%. Tailings ponds are reclaimable within weeks now as opposed to the 7-10 year cycle they used to require. Again, what information do you have about the "persist for centuries" bit of your rhetoric?


and condemn wildlife and waterfowl to death along the way.


I assume you're referring to the 1600 ducks that died a few years ago in a tailings pond? That sucks, but do you know how many bats, birds and fowl are killed every year by wind mills? It's 3 birds per year per turbine for the rest of time. And that's with the advanced technology now used. As for wildlife, they do quite well on land that has been reclaimed.


horrific environmental and social costs of the desperate extraction of oil from tar sands and gas from fracking


Here's a free stock tip for you. Check out a company on the Canadian Venture exchange called GasFrac. They've invented a very clean way to frac wells that uses propane in a gel form. The gel hits water and becomes a gas again making it one hundred percent recovereable and usable as well as one hundred percent clean. It works and if you buy now, you'll see the rewards before the forth quarter profits come out. Oh wait, that'd be like an oximoron wouldn't it? Nevermind.

Instead, you should keep buying 10% of your oil from Nigeria....


There have been many clear examples of corporate influence in the Nigerian military repressing the protestors. The military have been accused of thousands of killings, house/village burnings, intimidating people, torture and so on. From Shell’s involvement in the killing of Ken Saro-Wiwa to Chevron-marked helicopters carrying Nigerian military that opened fire upon protestors, the corporations are facing harsh criticisms for the way they have been handling (or encouraging) the situation.

Criticisms abound about the way the oil companies have neglected the surrounding environment and health of the local communities. The Niger Delta is the richest area of biodiversity in Nigeria, but regular oil spills that are not cleaned up, blatant dumping of industrial waste and promises of development projects which are not followed through, have all added to the increasing environmental and health problems
 vicarious03
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 53
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2011 2:30:05 PM
no way in hell would i support this. what people don't realize is that not only is this a drinking water supply, but it is also an irrigation for crops supply. you dump oil in that aquifer and you will have an environment catastrophe on your hands. what we need to be doing is moving away from oil dependency. moving away from oil is something that ultimately must be done. it will cost a lot of money and put our nation in hardship, but we will be better off in the end.
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 54
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2011 3:24:35 PM
When we have an alternative energy for our vehicles let us know.
 a_lonewolf
Joined: 5/21/2010
Msg: 55
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2011 5:00:16 PM

When we have an alternative energy for our vehicles let us know

An energy source not just for vehicles, more like a product that can replace almost everything made in this world now. (ie) plastics to carbon fibre, gels to glues.
 AviatorBill
Joined: 8/5/2013
Msg: 56
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/17/2013 3:18:31 PM
If your worried about New Energy Solutions join Dr Steven Greers Campaign for the "ORION PROJECT" Its a organization devoted to bringing out technologies that our government has hidden from the public eye and siezed over 5190 Pattens that would essentualy change the way we live our lives and rid us of Oil, Gas, Wind, Solar, Thermal, Nuclear, Water, and Ozone Energy sourses forever. All our central utilities would be rendered obsolete. Look up some of his vids and press conferances with Congress, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Head of the CIA Dirrector, and President Clinton and Obama. Hes a highly respected man and anyone whos willing to listen and spread the word can help change our future, and our childrens future.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 57
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/17/2013 4:50:21 PM
I only wish those "hidden technologies" were real. The only one I see right off that is actually feasible, using solar and wind tech to derive power to refill fuel cells, is hardly being "suppressed" or "hidden." It's being held up by the completion of the technology required to make it work safely, and by the total lack of needed support structure throughout the country (i.e. charging stations to replace gas stations), and by the tremendously high start up cost for the general population.

Basically, anything which requires EVERYONE to buy brand new cars and heating and cooling systems for their homes, and brand new methods of transmitting or converting the energy to where it needs to be to run everything, is not going to move quickly. No "suppression" is required. Just a refusal to fund any of the transition costs.

What you don't recognize is, that a lot of the reason why gas and oil have had their day as they have, is because the existing structure of the day that they came to be functional, was easily adaptable to it, AND, there was shortly thereafter, a favorable imbalance of trade that enriched big industrial countries like the US, to the point where they could and did use PUBLIC money to build the rest of the needed support systems (i.e. paved highway systems, etc).
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 58
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/17/2013 5:37:04 PM
if you drive a car, fly in aircraft, use trains, buses or ships or boats that burn fossil fuel, use it for heating. or use electricity generated thusly, and get all self-righteous about oil production..

you are a hypocrite
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 59
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/18/2013 9:22:47 PM
I have decided that Obama is actually an idiot.Despite being quite bright.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 60
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/18/2013 9:32:06 PM
^^^^^^
I'm curious, what brought you to that conclusion?
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 61
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/19/2013 10:03:46 AM
we just had 40+ people killed & a town pretty much destroyed by derailed oil carrying rail tanker cars in Lac Megantic Quebec

so enjoy shipping by rail or truck if you hate the pipelines so much - pipelines are far safer
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 62
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/19/2013 6:36:36 PM

I'm curious, what brought you to that conclusion?


Foreign oil could become scarce at any time due to who knows what chain of events.Secure supplies in time of war wins the war.Another 6 or 7 years could go by without preparing.The world is changing at an accelerating rate.So much could change with even a limited nuke exchange.We have a lot of rotters on this planet.Limited oil turns our world upside down.The supply of petroleum products needs to be secure within the borders of North America.
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 63
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/19/2013 6:42:26 PM

so enjoy shipping by rail or truck if you hate the pipelines so much - pipelines are far safer


Talked to a recently retired rail man.Didn't like his outlook at all.Said the railway was there first.It's their business how they operate the train.And that gps tells them if the train moves 15 feet.I said by that time it's too late.They should and could know if it moved a mm.
 AviatorBill
Joined: 8/5/2013
Msg: 64
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/19/2013 8:08:52 PM

I only wish those "hidden technologies" were real. The only one I see right off that is actually feasible, using solar and wind tech to derive power to refill fuel cells, is hardly being "suppressed" or "hidden." It's being held up by the completion of the technology required to make it work safely, and by the total lack of needed support structure throughout the country (i.e. charging stations to replace gas stations), and by the tremendously high start up cost for the general population.

Basically, anything which requires EVERYONE to buy brand new cars and heating and cooling systems for their homes, and brand new methods of transmitting or converting the energy to where it needs to be to run everything, is not going to move quickly. No "suppression" is required. Just a refusal to fund any of the transition costs.

What you don't recognize is, that a lot of the reason why gas and oil have had their day as they have, is because the existing structure of the day that they came to be functional, was easily adaptable to it, AND, there was shortly thereafter, a favorable imbalance of trade that enriched big industrial countries like the US, to the point where they could and did use PUBLIC money to build the rest of the needed support systems (i.e. paved highway systems, etc).

Do me a favor before you judge whether what you say is truth or not, frankly you don't know for a fact but I do. I was in the US Navy Witnessed 5 UFO's that hovered over our Aircraft carrier during Operation Iraqi Freedom Right after we recovered our strike pack from Shock N Awe. I cant say when, or where it was and was forced to sign a nondisclosure agreement at gun point along with 400 other flight deck witnesses, officers included alike after the event. We were forced to muster in the Focsal after we finished our post flight operational inspections and had to sign these documents shrouded in a aluminum clip board that completely covered the paper document except for the area we had to sign. We were told never to speak of this, if we did they would know. Our family's would be killed, anyone who ever knew me would have to sign the same agreement and barred from ever traveling outside the state, And our entire lives would be erased. They said our bodys would be dumped in the middle of the ocean.

Look these video titles up on You tube. It will enlighten you on your ignorant brain washed conditioned minds. Don't be a slave to the corrupt media. Seriously

"Dr Steven Greer at the Citizen Hearing: The National Press Club" ~ "ILLUMINATI GOES PUBLIC WITH NWO " ~ "Why UFOs and Alien Technology are Covered Up - Dr. Steven Greer "
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 65
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/19/2013 9:32:44 PM

I was in the US Navy Witnessed 5 UFO's that hovered over our Aircraft carrier during Operation Iraqi Freedom Right after we recovered our strike pack from Shock N Awe. I cant say when, or where it was and was forced to sign a nondisclosure agreement at gun point along with 400 other flight deck witnesses, officers included alike after the event. We were forced to muster in the Focsal after we finished our post flight operational inspections and had to sign these documents shrouded in a aluminum clip board that completely covered the paper document except for the area we had to sign. We were told never to speak of this, if we did they would know. Our family's would be killed, anyone who ever knew me would have to sign the same agreement and barred from ever traveling outside the state, And our entire lives would be erased. They said our bodys would be dumped in the middle of the ocean.


Hopefully you live "in land" now. Unless your post is set to self destruct in 4...3...2...
 AviatorBill
Joined: 8/5/2013
Msg: 66
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 8/20/2013 12:26:03 AM

Hopefully you live "in land" now. Unless your post is set to self destruct in 4...3...2...


lol No nothing silly like that =P Actually since I left the Navy and joined CSETI I've disclosed some of the things I've witnessed and testified in front of congress about the UFO accounts I've witnessed in my lifetime and the extent the military goes to hide their existence. Its disturbing, the truth embargo they have on the media and all foreign media these days is stupid it pisses me off so much. The media is to afraid to run any story's on this subject and the "ha ha factor" is what everyone who's involved in this secrecy or who have witnessed these UFO craft or secret technologies don't want any part of. These technologies if disclosed, our civilization would leap ahead in technology by 10,000+ yrs advancements.

This is a danger, and a reality we face as a people and if we continue on our current course, the earth is headed over a cliff. We need to fix it and make the public aware of this. People with their heads up their ass are the problem and we need to get these people to see the light. This is not a joke, its not something to be scaufed at and teased cuz these people are a danger to our country, our constitution, our planet and our way of life. If you truly feel that change needs to happen, from our grip on oil then take this subject serious and do your own research. The truth is out there, its up to you to see it and open your eyes.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 67
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 2/25/2014 7:45:04 PM

Does anyone else either side of our normally friendly border have serious reservations about this proposed project
YES!!!

I hope it will not go through.

I have nothing against our neighbors up north ... just don't want that pipeline going through our country.
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 68
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/5/2014 6:50:04 PM

I have nothing against our neighbors up north ... just don't want that pipeline going through our country.

Lol
Most of the pipeline is already there.
Obama is just holding up a couple connections.
It’s inevitable, it will happen as the oil is too valuable and Obama is just appeasing the base.
Otherwise we will continue to truck it down to Houston and which transportation method is safer?
Wanna bet he approves it before he leaves office?
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 69
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/5/2014 7:04:08 PM
No it is not inevitable. Obama will probably convert and build more pipelines for GAS.

This dirty oil SHOULD and CAN stay in the ground. Don't believe the ads/propaganda. Tar sands are TOXIC!!! and so is every step to get it to china.

If you are so into yourself, keep it to yourself and get your own energy. (bio fuels) .

DO NOT support tar sands!!! The world/planet does NOT need to go THERE!!

Get a grip, OUR future is at stake!

Ban the shit worldwide!
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 70
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/5/2014 7:28:42 PM
Why is it dirty?
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 71
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/7/2014 3:51:41 PM

Why is it dirty?


it’s high in sulphur, making the refining process even dirtier. extracting and “upgrading” bitumen requires massive amounts of *water and natural gas, and to make it transportable it must be diluted with natural-gas byproducts

*4 to 1 is the rough estimate


I understand why americans don't want the pipeline running south from alberta, all I can say is it better run
south from alberta vs west

fracking idiots
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 72
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 8:03:13 AM

it’s high in sulphur, making the refining process even dirtier. extracting and “upgrading” bitumen requires massive amounts of *water and natural gas, and to make it transportable it must be diluted with natural-gas byproducts


Studies suggest you are wrong...

http://news.ualberta.ca/newsarticles/2013/december/studies-suggest-boreal-forests-can-handle-oilsands-development


“Canadian oil sands crudes have been transported safely in the U.S. for more than 40 years,” “All crude oils have to meet the same criteria when put in a pipeline, which protects the pipeline and communities along its route, as well as the quality of all transported crudes.

“Since the U.S. Office of Pipeline Safety began keeping detailed statistics in 2002, not a single corrosion-related pipeline release from pipelines carrying any Canadian crude has been reported,” said Lidiak. “Pipelines remain a safe and reliable mode of transportation for the vital energy resources Americans needs. We hope the NAS study will finally put false claims to the contrary to rest.”

In a 2011 report, Canadian research group Alberta Innovates found that acid and sulfur compounds found in oil sands crudes “are too stable to be corrosive and some may even decrease corrosion.” Recent testing and studies by ASTM International and Penspen support this conclusion. The State Department also stated, “Dilbit viscosity is comparable to those of conventional heavy crude oils and there is no evidence of increased corrosion or other potential pipeline threat due to viscosity.” The former President of NACE International and a leading corrosion expert, Dr. Oliver Mogissi, stated, “Corrosivity of diluted bitumen is largely similar to crude oil, which is considered to be low. In addition, the threat of corrosion from diluted bitumen can be managed by conventional engineering practice in the same way as crude oil.”

API is a national trade association that represents all segments of America’s technology-driven oil and natural gas industry. Its more than 500 members – including large integrated companies, exploration and production, refining, marketing, pipeline, and marine businesses, and service and supply firms – provide most of the nation’s energy. The industry also supports 9.2 million U.S. jobs and 7.7 percent of the U.S. economy, delivers $85 million a day in revenue to our government, and, since 2000, has invested over $2 trillion in U.S. capital projects to advance all forms of energy, including alternatives.


http://www.api.org/news-and-media/news/newsitems/2013/june-2013/api-canadian-oil-sands-crude-transports-to-the-us-remain-safe

So no increased threat form the untruth about “dirty Canadian Oil Sands” weakening pipeline.
You could attempt to discredit this group and eliminate all the US jobs... what the heck Obamacare and food stamps will cover the job losses.
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 73
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 12:14:05 PM
So right you are, MrFication.
Your wonder and brilliant synopsis of the importance of the Oil Sands and its safe distribution to market has trumped the arguments of those who oppose technology and advancement of the poor.
Those cafe latte’ sipping, two car two home loving, multi computer typing, fear mongering , oil consuming, racist, flat earth, granola crunching lemmings who would deny the poor and downtrodden jobs and sustenance simply to appease their uninformed consciences.
Those who would lead us to believe that the world is in a man made death spiral due to overheating. (One look out the window this winter suggests otherwise)
So right you are MrFication - Pipeline On!
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 74
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 2:42:07 PM
And considering this area of Ohio was once a vast inland sea, then a near-tropical marshland, then 100,000 years ago covered by a vast glacier that extended to the Great Lakes also indicates that looking at the blip of time humans have been record-keeping this data has nothing to do with the eons-long big picture of cyclic periods of warmth.

One can't simply look at a mere 100+ years of data and think that it means the climate is warming because it would point to something that obviously had to have started with native American hydrocarbon release activity 50,000-80,000 years ago & perfected in the 20th century that led to the ultimate North American glacier melt, & present-day rising temps. If so, this warming may hopefully lead this area to reclaim its former tropical marshland that it once was before the last cooling cycle killed off millions of native species that thrived in the warmth & ruined everything - which neither event originally had nothing to do with humans, or pipelines.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 75
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 3:41:36 PM
"If there is something we can do to prevent it, then we should be willing to reject the greed of the large corporate overlords"

^^^^You probably were thinking of Al Gore when you wrote that, I would bet on it! Right??
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