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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 76
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline DelayedPage 4 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
Skootchie Bootchies...
Don’t look now but it seems we are in another cooling trend.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

ww.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/06/15/forget-the-temperature-plateau-earth-undergoing-global-cooling-since-2002-climate-scientist-dr-judith-curry-attention-in-the-public-debate-seems-to-be-moving-away-from/

I guess the science isn’t settled.
Another Obama “RedLine” gone by the wayside.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 77
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 5:14:52 PM
(off-topic!)

Why would you want to prevent the earth from getting warmer??? That is what it does naturally as it recovers from an ice age. It gets warmer. And warmer. And warmer still. It returns to its original configuration as it was before the ice age disturbed this process. I wouldnt be typing this here if not for that last ice age mucking up the works. This spot would still be a Florida-like marshland filled with tropical wildlife that would never see snow. Ask the extinct dinosaurs about that one .

But if you believe puny humans are responsible, then there's nothing you can do about it. Stopping, or building a pipeline has no bearing on any part of it, no matter how miniscule.

There are more than 7 billion people on this planet. There will be a billion more in just 5 more years. 50 years from now it will double to near 14 billion. Somebody is going to lose the battle, & it'll be those who think they can somehow control climate, in spite of there being a resource-consuming carbon spewing human on every acre of this planet.

Any gain you could possibly make will be far & away wiped out by the extra billion of humans every 10 years. You cant win.

Many of you will possibly be alive then. Due to population swell alone, & by your own frightening estimates, your children will be bearing the brunt of your full blown climate crisis, caused partly by your procreation. There is nothing you can do, other than wipe out most of the earth's population, & doing that will only be PART of the solution. Mankind's extinction will still not stop this. It will, at best, slow it some.

I cant wait to see what your other solution to climate change will be. Whatever it is, it is surely off-topic in this thread. When you find out what it is, please post it in the appropriate thread...... like here:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/10366036datingPostpage18.aspx
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 78
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 8:07:56 PM

... surely off-topic in this thread ... please post it in the appropriate thread ...

I think posting about the tar sands' effects are on our environment ... air, ground, etc. ... is entirely appropriate in this thread. I feel it's an important part of the reason we shouldn't allow the pipeline to run through our land and a good reason for not encouraging other nations to burn the "dirty" oil.

The effect using it will have on our environment is an excellent argument for the people to protest it.

If there's a leak, it will poison our ground waters ... and that's reason enough for me to put a stop to it.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 79
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/8/2014 8:24:05 PM
"If there's a leak, it will poison our ground waters ... and that's reason enough for me to put a stop to it."

The pipeline may be stopped, but the movement of the oil will happen by one means or another. Right now it is being shipped by rail, which is probably far more dangerous.
Doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not, energy products will get transported to where they need to go.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 80
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/12/2014 4:16:47 PM

The pipeline may be stopped, but the movement of the oil will happen by one means or another.
I do not wish any harm on anyone but if we're not going use that crap ... we shouldn't have to take the chances of it running through the land we depend on for the major portion of our crops.

Let them find another way to get it to where they want it. Let's hope it will eventually be sooooooo expensive for them or their buyers that it won't be worth it to dig it up and ship it.


Right now it is being shipped by rail, which is probably far more dangerous.
I disagree ... if there's a leak, we know exactly when it happens and it would be a lot easier to contain than if a pipe bursts underground and leaks and leaks and leaks ... and is not discovered until crops begin to die for no reason, or it begins to show up in peoples' sinks!

Doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not, energy products will get transported to where they need to go.
The point is that we have to find an alternative ... stop burning all this fossil fuel that is so toxic to our environment.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 81
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/12/2014 4:44:51 PM
Shipped by rail is the most dangerous. Hopefully this gets the go ahead after the President approves. Whenever that is....................................................................
 tallshyman
Joined: 1/1/2008
Msg: 82
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/13/2014 11:14:56 PM
there Pipelines going all over this country and one more Pipeline will not make a diffidence.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 83
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Posted: 3/15/2014 12:02:00 PM


Why is it dirty?

it’s high in sulfur, making the refining process even dirtier. extracting and “upgrading” bitumen requires massive amounts of *water and natural gas, and to make it transportable it must be diluted with natural-gas byproducts

*4 to 1 is the rough estimate
I haven't had time to look into that too much but I did find something that troubles me ...
http://tarsandsoilmobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Final-NOAA-Oil-Sands-Report_03_22.pdf

Transporting Alberta’s Oil Sands Products

Little research is currently available regarding the behavior of oil sands products in water and the process and outcome of weathering after a spill. The only tests that have been conducted were in a laboratory environment so
predicting the actual behavior of oil sands products for a range of spills is not currently possible. While the parent bitumen can be denser than water meaning it would sink, after diluent addition, the density decreases to less than water meaning it would float. The environmental conditions present during a spill such as turbidity, water salinity, and mixing with sediments can all affect the potential for the oil sands products to float or sink. Responders to the oil sands product spill into the Kalamazoo River reported the presence of floating oil, submerged oil, and sunken oil. Presently there are several research projects in the planning stages addressing the weathering behavior of oil sands products, but only one study has been published to date.
Soooo ... there hasn't really been much research in what the affects would be if there was a spill. Do we have to be their guinea pigs?

A highly debated topic with oil sands products is the degree of corrosivity with respect to pipeline transport. Oil sands products tend to be higher in sulfur and total acid number than medium and light crude oils, which can contribute to corrosivity. Preliminary conclusions from ongoing research suggest that oil sands products are not more corrosive than standard crude oils and thus do not pose a increased risk for transmission pipeline corrision.
Sooo it "suggests" oil sands products are not more corrosive, but how sure are they?

Environmental and human health risks are another concern associated with oil sands development and transportation. The health of the Athabasca River near the oil sands deposits in Alberta serve as background information which will be referenced during future oil spills.
Are you kidding? They're planning on oil spills and we're supposed to trust their information ... but they really haven't done a whole lot of research.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 84
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/15/2014 11:32:04 PM
SWEEEEEEEET! Enhanced, safe, and improved delivery for petroleum products is a wonderful thing!
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 85
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 9:27:46 AM

How greenhouse gasses could be affected by building a pipeline escapes me.



in this case it's not so much the pipeline itself as what it will be carrying. Converting bitumen, or "tar sands" to something resembling conventional crude oil is far more carbon intensive than normal oil production.


Millions of gallons of Diesel fuel are burned every day transporting this product thousands of miles by rail & tanker truck to market. Pipelines only need pumping stations to move the product. The pipline would reduce consumption of deisel fuel used by thousands of rail cars & semi tankers to transport this product .


You poor Americans. Every four year term includes three years of total and complete dithering for votes. Major decisions have nothing to do with technology, science or reality. Just politics. Fantastic.


Part of the politics is due to who is profiting right now from delaying any pipeline, which requires transporting this product by rail. Who is the owner/profiteer of the rail companies that contract to transport this crude oil??


Obama's Keystone Rejection May Provide A Buffett Bonanza

President Barack Obama has a lucky policy pal who may richly benefit from his administration’s latest energy decision.

Now that his State Department has decided to withhold approval for the Keystone XL pipeline that would have delivered millions of barrels of Canadian crude along with tens of thousands of jobs, a likely alternative is to transport that oil via the Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) railroad. That’s the 32,000 mile line with the best north-south infrastructure that Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway purchased a 22% ($34 billion) share of one year after Obama was elected.

BNSF is already a major oil player in North Dakota where production from the enormous Bakken fields has maxed out existing pipeline capacity. Keystone XL would have relieved that bottleneck, and its delay or death serves as still another BNSF business boon. North Dakota pumped a record 113 million barrels of oil in 2010, and State officials estimate that daily production will reach 700,000 barrels in four to seven years.

Now with the TransCanada pipeline on hold, Canada’s best remaining choices are to reverse an existing Embridge-Kinder Morgan Northern Gateway pipeline and ship Alberta oil sand bitumen east, move it by rail to ports accessible for transport by ship to Asian markets, or deliver it via a North Dakota Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) spur to U.S. refineries. Transport by rail costs more than by pipeline, but routing is more flexible and can begin almost immediately.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/01/26/obamas-keystone-rejection-may-provide-a-buffett-bonanza/




After all, this oil will be extracted and sold regardless of whether there's a pipeline or not. The decision was revisited because of the route of the pipeline - specifically through the American portion.


Not WILL BE.....it IS being extracted & sold as we speak. Not through any pipeline, but by thousands of railcars on wheels day & night, which travel through cities, & on bridges, over rivers & waterways.


we just had 40+ people killed & a town pretty much destroyed by derailed oil carrying rail tanker cars in Lac Megantic Quebec


Yes, as shown last year by a Canadian town destroyed & 42 Canadians killed by a deraliment & explosion of crude oil carried through the heartland by rail cars on wheels. 1.5 million gallons were spilled on land & into a river....by rail.
How soon some wish to forget about that disaster. That disaster was swept under the rug down here. It mucks up the anti-pipeline agenda. Somehow though, even after this glaring wake-up call, rail is still the preferred method of transport compared to some "dangerous" pipeline.


The Toronto Star on Saturday published an incredibly thorough and ultimately heartbreaking look at ongoing recovery efforts in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec, which in July experienced the fourth deadliest rail accident in Canadian history. Forty-seven people were killed after a 72-car freight train carrying Bakken formation crude oil derailed, resulting in fires, fumes, explosions, and an approximate 1.5 million gallon oil spill.

At the time, emergency responders described a “war zone.” Now, according to the Star, the resulting contamination has cost the city — and its surrounding waters — a cool $200 million so far. But money, as the article notes, has been far from the only cost of the spill.

“The deluge glugged out of punctured tanker cars and ran down city streets ablaze, a river of burning oil. It seeped into the ground, gushed down manholes into the sewers and stormwater pipes, causing powerful explosions underground. It spilled into crystal waters of the lake, clung to boats in the marina, and rushed down the winding Chaudière, a 185-kilometre river that empties into the St. Lawrence … The spill in an urban setting has destroyed buildings untouched by flame, prompted a mass exodus of contaminated soil, and forced crews to rebuild even as they decontaminate, with the aim of jumpstarting the faltering economy.

Those leading the clean-up sum it up simply: There has never been anything like it.”


http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/16/3067971/interactive-map-tracks-lac-megantics-tragic-river-burning-oil/


I have nothing against our neighbors up north ... just don't want that pipeline going through our country.


But hundreds of thousands of rail cars loaded with millions of barrels of this product travel through populated centers of the heartland every single day & night.....is this the preferred mode of transport???


Most of the pipeline is already there.
Obama is just holding up a couple connections.
It’s inevitable, it will happen as the oil is too valuable and Obama is just appeasing the base.
Otherwise we will continue to truck it down to Houston and which transportation method is safer?
Wanna bet he approves it before he leaves office?


Buffet's profit-making rail empire & its ensuing oil boom modernization/buildup can now transport most of the oil by rail. It is getting more cost-effective every year. NOTHING is stopping the extraction & shipment of tar sands crude. Pipeline opponents are responsible for any & all future rail distasters involving the millions of barrels of this product barrelling down the rail lines waiting to derail in your city.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 86
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 9:48:24 AM

The US doesn't need another frikkin pipeline


That's like saying you don't need another road built. The benefits of new and improved infrastructure as well as increased demand create that need.


The number of temporary jobs doesn't justify subjecting the American people who would be subjected to the permanent nightmares of not knowing for certain if their land and water are being poisoned


First, the pipeline is in every way state of the art and you will know if any amount of oil is leaking within minutes. Isolating and containing that section involves flicking a switch, not four months of watching an under water well puke oil into the ocean. Second, the temporary jobs are nothing to be sneezed at, 2 years of employment for tens of thousands of otherwise under employed people is a good thing. However the real prize is the spin off employment and economic activity. There is no way to accurately estimate the benefit of more money in your country and state revenue streams other than to look at other areas that do participate in refining and transporting petroleum products. What would happen if states could pay off some bills and cut taxes? See Alaska. The other real prize is getting even a fraction of the giant 17 trillion dollar monkey off your back. I seriously can't stress this enough...people who have rung up a collasal bill like Americans have look like raging hypocites when they say we don't need any of this because we're all about saving the environment even though we consume more than anyone on the entire planet. You do need this business because the rest of the world wants their money back. It would also be nice if you could steal a bit of thunder from guys like Putin and save a few hundred thousand lives every year by supplying oil to otherwise ransomed countries. Looking at the 35 permanent pipeline jobs is a totally idiotic way to gauge the economic success of this project. You've missed the point if you take Jeremy Rippe's word on this.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 87
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 9:55:39 AM
You are being at LEAST as silly and illogical as the people who you are opposing, neapoli.

Blaming expected rail messes on the anti-pipeline people? Unless you will also blame the expected pipeline failures on the anti-rail people, you are full of it.

Suggesting a conspiracy to help Warren Buffet get rich? I can all but promise you, Warren Buffet is like all the ultra-rich: the entire economy is rigged in such a way that he will benefit no matter WHICH way anything goes.

What this really does still boil down to, is that a lot of politics is being played, over an incredibly tiny bit of temporary profit to a small group of people, in exchange for running a pipeline full of poisonous crude through the primary mid-western US aquifer.

The pipeline supporters consist of the few people who will directly benefit from it, and the large number of people who don't care one way or the other about what ANYONE involved is concerned about, and simply use any such situation as a way to attack their political opponents. The opponents consist of a lot of people who depend for their entire livelihood on that pipeline NEVER having a problem, plus some outsiders who think that anything to do with oil is bad.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 88
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 10:12:15 AM
Great post neopoli!!

"Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway purchased a 22% ($34 billion) share of one year after Obama was elected."

Shipping this oil is so dangerous by rail, as noted in the above post.

Like neopoli says, this is happening anyway as far as shipping this oil and Obama needs to get his head out of his butt and get this done. And then we have Kerry.........lol....Kerry told Landrieu(senator from Louisiana) he was "not at liberty to go into my thinking at this point," but added: "I'm going to look at all the arguments, both sides, all sides, whatever, evaluate them and make the best judgment I can about what is in the national interest."....Mr Kerry, it has been FIVE YEARS of discussions. Landrieu who IS a democrat, among other democrats, wants the state department to approve the pipeline

And Hillary "what does it matter" Clinton, she has said before that she agrees with the pipeline but here is the rub. Environmentalists are not happy with that and some democrats are not happy with that. She has lots of ties with TransCanada. Hmmmmm, another issue that she will really have to answer. But it is going to be hard to get her to answer her position right now on the pipeline, she continually refuses to answer media questions about it.

This is not a democrat or republican issue.

I wonder if Obama is having dinner with Soros and Buffett soon. Who is really running things? I am sure a yes or no from the state department is only going to be told when it is "convenient" as far as political "timing" for future elections this year and 2016.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 89
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 10:36:56 AM


First, the pipeline is in every way state of the art and you will know if any amount of oil is leaking within minutes. Isolating and containing that section involves flicking a switch, not four months of watching an under water well puke oil into the ocean.


"Flicking a switch"????

Do you mean the "switch" the morons kept over riding in Alberta while the oil kept leaking in Michigan despite the "technology" that was available to them? That "switch"?
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 90
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 10:56:14 AM

Crude oil shipments by rail jumped 83 percent in 2013

From the Associated Press: March 14, 2014

The number of carloads of crude oil U.S. railroads delivered last year surged 83 percent over 2012 as concerns about the shipments grow.

The Association of American Railroads said Thursday the major U.S. railroads delivered 434,042 carloads of crude oil in 2013.

That’s well above the 236,556 carloads of crude oil railroads delivered in 2012. Crude oil shipments remain a relatively small part of rail traffic, but they have grown significantly since 2008 when 9,344 carloads were delivered.

Three fiery derailments involving crude oil in the past year led to increased concerns about the shipments even though railroads’ overall safety record remains good. The worst of those killed 47 people in Lac-Megantic, Quebec.

Federal regulators are also considering requiring upgrades to the tank cars railroads use.


http://www.ohio.com/blogs/drilling/ohio-utica-shale-1.291290/crude-oil-shipments-by-rail-jumped-83-percent-in-2013-1.473168

Because of NO pipeline, almost a half a million rail cars of crude oil per year travel on wheels in & around populated areas, cities, farmlands & over countless waterways via train bridges, burning millions of gallons of diesel fuel lugging this product to market.

This WW2-era mode of transportation is the preferred method compared to a modern pipeline??
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 91
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 11:44:40 AM
434,000 rail tankers carrying crude oil in 2012 @ around 25,000 gallons per tank car = over 900 million (almost 1 billion) gallons of crude oil careening across the country on steel rails last year alone.This is almost DOUBLE the numbers compared to just the year before. Its nearly doubling itself almost every year since 2008 as production booms.

The sheer volume of crude being transported by this WW2-era mode of transportation is another overdue environtmental disaster/accident waiting to happen, yet it is obviously the preferred method compared to a modern pipeline??
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 92
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 11:59:07 AM
^^^^^^ You are just pointing out what certain companies will do for the almighty $$$$$$. If the companies can't use "pipelines" they'll use the cars until somebody comes along and tells them it's "okay" to put in a pipeline. Transporting any poison will result in a "environmental disaster/accident" sooner or later. Especially when humans and greed are involved. Again, go look at what happened in Michigan, and the valve turners in Alberta for such evidence.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 93
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 12:07:18 PM
I will, as soon as I am done looking at last years crude oil rail disaster in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec that killed 47 people & spilled 1.5 million gallons of crude from 72 tanker cars that flooded the streets with rivers of flaming crude, then spilled - still flaming - into the sewer system, causing massive explosions which destroyed most of the town, then from there spilled into the local waterways, setting them on fire also & poisoning the water supply for almost a million people.

All caused by yearly record-breaking increases in rail transport of crude oil that could have(should have) been transported through a pipeline.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 94
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 1:27:58 PM

... burning millions of gallons of diesel fuel lugging this product to market.
Not knowing for sure where anyone in here really lives, I can only say that the trains in my area ... Columbus, Ohio ... do not burn gazillions of gallons of fuel to carry anything around ... the trains in our area are all hybrid trains. That's a locomotive that uses an on-board RESS (rechargeable energy storage system). I looked that up and it appears the best I could find is that the RESS is placed between the power source (often a diesel engine prime mover) and the traction transmission system connected to the wheels. (My brother-in-law provided me with that information and he should know ... it's his job.)


This WW2-era mode of transportation is the preferred method compared to a modern pipeline??
Actually ... I'd prefer that crap not be transported anywhere. They need to leave it right where it is ... it wasn't polluting anything or anyone's water/land/air ... to the best of my knowledge. Now it will be.

As I've stated many times before ... I think we should be working on alternative energy ... it's time (has been for a long while) to get rid of fossil fuel. But the oil industry keeps buying up all the patents. Just as they managed to do away with the EV1.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 95
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 2:58:33 PM

I will, as soon as I am done looking at last years crude oil rail disaster in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec that killed 47 people & spilled 1.5 million gallons of crude from 72 tanker cars that flooded the streets with rivers of flaming crude, then spilled - still flaming - into the sewer system, causing massive explosions which destroyed most of the town, then from there spilled into the local waterways, setting them on fire also & poisoning the water supply for almost a million people.



And while you are it, since you are in the mood, go research the tar sands in northern Alberta. Since, you seem to have a concern for the environment, waterways and the poisoning of "people".
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 96
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 3:20:10 PM
Why?? That is a bit after- the -fact here, since the crude is being extracted & shipped via pipeline as we all type about it. Moot point. Thats the reason for this thread. That has nothing to do with on-topic pipelines, or the on-topic lack of pipelines, that require rail transport of any of this crude oil through populated areas & bridged waterways.


Was there a pipeline available and someone decide to use the rail system instead? If not, then you are just making stuff up


No, not making anything up.

Yes, if available, the Keystone Pipeline would have been used to pipe that oil cheaply to a coastal refinery rather than railroading it through someone's town to another refinery.

The crude oil in those rail cars in Quebec originated in North Dakota & was heading to a refinery in New Brunswick, which, because of lack of a pipeline, which would have been the most cost-effective way to get it to a refinery......any refinery.


The Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway Ltd. train that crashed in Lac-Megantic was hauling crude from North Dakota to Irving Oil Corp.’s 298,800-barrel-a-day Saint John refinery in New Brunswick.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-10/north-dakota-oil-transport-risk-revealed-in-quebec-blast.html

If the Keystone XL pipline were in place, that very same oil would have been piped to the Gulf Coast as the most cost-effective way to get it to a refinery....any refinery.


A boom in North American oil production has helped drive a flurry of proposals to build or expand pipelines, including TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s proposed Keystone XL, now under review by the U.S. State Department.

Keystone would move mostly crude from Alberta’s oil sands to refineries on the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, though it would also be fed oil from North Dakota.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-10/north-dakota-oil-transport-risk-revealed-in-quebec-blast.html


Since pipeline capacity is exceeded, this crude must be shipped via rail to other refineries.


Most crude oil is moved in the United States by pipeline. However, because of limited pipeline infrastructure in North Dakota's Bakken region, oil producing companies there rely on rail to move their barrels.

Shipping oil by rail costs an average $10 per barrel to $15 per barrel nationwide, up to three times more expensive than the $5 per barrel it costs to move oil by pipeline.

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=7270


Since this crude must be shipped via rail to other refineries, disasters are going to happen.


The 2013 Lac-Mégantic derailment in Quebec, in which crude oil carried by rail cars exploded and killed 50 people, highlights the safety of pipelines. The oil in the Lac-Mégantic rail cars came from the Bakken Formation in North Dakota, an area that would be served by the Keystone expansion. Increased oil production in North Dakota has exceeded pipeline capacity since 2010, leading to increasing volumes of crude oil being shipped by truck or rail to refineries.

Canadian journalist Diana Furchtgott-Roth commented: "If this oil shipment had been carried through pipelines, instead of rail, families in Lac-Mégantic would not be grieving for lost loved ones today, and oil would not be polluting Lac Mégantic and the Chaudière River."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline

No Keystone pipeline to haul North Dakota crude cost-effectively to the Gulf Coast = Rail tankers hauling North Dakota crude through Quebec to another refinery, derailing & killing 47 people.

Why are we burning millions of gallons of diesel fuel lugging this dangerous product to market through populated areas instead of piping it through an appropriate pipeline...?
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 97
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 4:44:17 PM

Funny that looking at real, empirical evidence is "idiotic," but painting pie in the sky wealth for everybody that doesn't materialize, if ever, is not.


You don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about. If you think a project like Keystone will result in 35 jobs you're absolutely and totally ignorant of reality.


Sure, there will be some money around if the projected pipeline is ever built, but it won't be around the small towns through which the pipeline will run


So? This isn't a make work project for places with nothing going on anyway. You still haven't a clue about this.


If you want to have a realistic view of the economic factors of building a pipeline, take a look at what Forbes ( not a liberal publication) said in comparing Keystone XL project with the Trans-Alaska pipeline:


Ok. Have a look at the conclusion to the article...


Projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline will in fact create jobs (an unknown number), facilitate long term economic development, enhance state revenues, and bring the United States closer to energy security.


Here's another more recent Forbes article that may help you along the path...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/02/07/the-keystone-pipeline-would-create-thousands-of-jobs/


Humm, let me apply my "idiotic way" of looking at this. Alaska, right! The oil and the wells are in Alaska, the pipeline is in Alaska, and the shipping terminals are in Alaska. No wonder they are receiving some nice economic benefits from that operation and the spin off employment,


What you're not understanding is that this pipeline will be used by American producers in several different states not just Canadian oil sands companies. It will allow producers in many states to develop their own resources with essentially a free ticket to market. No more gluts of oil sitting around the mid west collecting dust. Several states can begin a road to the kind of prosperity Alaska has. That's a bit more interesting that 35 permanent jobs, no?
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 98
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 4:52:40 PM
^^^^^^
Maybe you think you can stop progress, but you won't.
Progress will make an end-run around you, just like water rolling down a slope.
Plenty of people died in automobile accidents because of gas tank fires, steering columns through the chest, getting their heads chopped off by the front windshields, being thrown from the car and struck by another car. How about now? The numbers are WAY down. That's progress.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 99
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/16/2014 8:30:40 PM

Who is going to own that pipeline? Ok, you guys of Trans-Canada, tell your people in Alberta to shut down to-morrow because I have to pump my stuff from North Dakota, and don't expect any frickin compensation because you said that I can use the pipeline for free, right? Jua, jua, jua, jua!


There are already 100k barrels a day reserved for the Bakken. It's free in the sense that it's much cheaper than the alternative methods of transportation and the capital infrastructure is invested by someone else. It's also not that hard to send different batches of goods down the same pipeline without interupting flow. You don't have to shut down and clear the entire line so someone else can use it. You just have no idea what you're talking about.


Oh good!! You're in the mood for research. Here is a list of pipeline accidents that resulted in oil spills. Saying that pipelines are a safe way of transporting oil is disingenuous.


Well, pipelines are safer for workers and for bystanders. And it's much less carbon intensive to use pipelines. Spill rates are more frequent for rail cars though less in amount per billion gallons. However as rail use increases expontially these numbers are getting closer every year with 2013 being the largest ever for rail spills. As well, we do not have a pipeline like the Keystone yet. Over all, it's not as disingenuous as you think.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 100
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 3/17/2014 12:22:46 PM
Animals love oil pipelines in the wintertime.
They gather against Alaskan pipelines for warmth.
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