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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 176
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline DelayedPage 8 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)

So, your article has Utah geologists in conflict with GAO and industry estimates. The GAO and industry says 3 trillion barrels of recoverable oil and Utah says 77 billion barrels.

Therefore, on the low estimate of 77 billion barrels the US would only be able to have it's entire oil needs met for 11 years.


The EIA also said the Monterey shale oil field had 13 billion more barrels than it actually did. That's a 96% hit but who's counting?


Many have.


Like so many, in fact, like all environmntalist wannabe's you're just making stuff up to suite your needs. No Irish, the big oil companies are not strip mining, bashing rocks to dust, boiling the dust for months, then chemically treating the vapour and hoping for a profitable outcome. As of Jan 2014...


Unfortunately, neither method has proven economically viable to this point. In recent years, both Shell and Chevron have abandoned their respective oil shale efforts in Colorado, after investing tens of millions of dollars into finding profitable extraction methods. And so, for now, the alluring deposits of oil in this fine-grained sedimentary rock in the Green River – that could put an end to America’s dependence on foreign oil – remains out of reach.


http://canaryusa.com/oil-production-in-colorado-skyrockets-thanks-to-fracking/


Hold on. Didn't you say Keystone was free? "That's free for you. TCPL pays that bill." There is no cost. Now you seem to agree that there is a cost for any type of oil exploration, development, production, and shipping.


Ya, the pipeline doesn't cost you anything. What's so hard to understand about that. Pipelines aren't oil exploration, development and production. TCPL doesn't produce oil. They pay you to build this pipeline.


digress. I do agree strip mining shale oil in Utah won't float any environmentalist boat, but technology improves every so often and as with horizontal drilling in the Permian oil fields recovery efforts become both economically feasible and environmentally feasible.


Oh really? So you guys can develop, inovate, and create cutting edge technology that magically satisfies all interests but no one else can. That's a bloody joke. If you and everyone else would look at the innovation that has already takn place in the oil sands you'd see a list a mile long of real innovation that has reduced emmissions per barrel while increasing production, cut down the amount of water used for fracking to almost zero, created a resource of zero recoverable barrels to 175 billion recoverable, created a way to store co2 in the ground, and the list goes on and on...

http://www.capp.ca/canadaindustry/oilsands/innovation/technology/Pages/default.aspx

There are pages and pages of innovation that's already taken place but by all means go reinvent the magic wheel.
 etourdi65
Joined: 1/23/2014
Msg: 177
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/27/2014 5:27:38 AM
No sense arguing with liberals about the pipeline...they are not really against it because of environmental concerns it is because the hate for big oil is one of the cornerstones of liberalism....even if cars could get hundreds of miles on one gallon of gas and emissions reduced by 1000% they still wouldn't be happy...because at the end of the day Oil would still be used...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 178
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 5/30/2014 9:01:20 AM
Seems the southern leg of the Keystone pipeline has some construction issues:


And what did we learn yesterday? Turns out the State Department has placed new safety regulations on the proposed pipeline, because the just-finished southern leg of Keystone running from Oklahoma to Texas was plagued with construction mistakes:

"From the start of welding, TransCanada experienced a high weld rejection rate," said one letter dated Sept. 26. Over 72 percent of welds required repairs during one week. In another week, TransCanada stopped welding work after 205 of 425 welds required repair. Inspections by the safety agency found TransCanada wasn't using approved welding procedures to connect pipes, the letter said…

The weld failure rates are "horrible," said Robert Bea, professor emeritus of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California, Berkeley. "The level of defects is indeed cause for alarm and indicative of something that is going on in the Keystone organization that isn't satisfactory." [Associated Press]
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 179
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 6/1/2014 3:39:40 PM
You have to ask yourself why do leftist oppose Keyston XL
The United States already has 185,000 miles of liquid petroleum pipelines, 320,000 miles of natural gas transmission pipelines, and more than 2,000,000 miles of gas distribution pipelines. Using the latest steel, valves and other technologies to build another 1,179 miles of pipe – to move 830,000 barrels of oil per day safely from Alberta, Canada oil sands country and North Dakota’s Bakken shale territory to Texas refineries – should not be an earth-shattering matter.

KXL would create jobs – in an Obama economy that grew at a pathetic Depression-era clip of 0.1% during the first quarter, and where the true jobless rate (unemployed, underemployed and those no longer looking) is almost 13 percent, and much worse for minorities.

States along the pipeline route would receive $5 billion in new property tax revenues, and still more in workers’ income tax payments. Depleted federal coffers would also realize hefty gains.

The pipeline would ease railroad congestion all over the central USA. The pipeline’s absence is forcing oil producers to move crude by railroad tanker car. Rail shipments of Oil are far riskier than pipeline supply.
In fact Keystone is a joint venture between the US and Canada and a win win for the economies of both countries.
In addition the security of both countries would be greatly benefited by the use of North American oil.

Why do liberals want to endanger the US public with this silly stalling tactic.
Why indeed...
Because the Keystone pipeline Fracking and the Athabasca Oil Sands has become the darling rallying point of the “Greenies”. They have failed in there attempts to sell man made global warming as recent trends have abandoned their cause. The only thing they have left is there opposition to American greatness. Energy independence would so greatly empower the American economy and foreign affairs and that just irks leftists.
They are so blinded by their hatred of American Exceptionalism that they have sold their sole to the lies of hedge fund billionaire Tom Steyer while they scream about the Koch brothers.
Just more hypocrisy from the left
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 180
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 6/1/2014 4:35:05 PM
There are some things about your version of things that I think are accurate. Both sides have indeed entrenched themselves, and declared that no facts of any kind will sway them. That has become the most common theme of our times, from Left and Right alike.

Some things you are wrong about:

* "KXL would create jobs – in an Obama economy that grew at a pathetic Depression-era clip of 0.1% during the first quarter, and where the true jobless rate (unemployed, underemployed and those no longer looking) is almost 13 percent, and much worse for minorities."

This is a much disputed claim. Every report I've seen, said that in terms of permanent jobs, it will be a drop in a very large bucket. Short term is still a plus, but not a valid selling point.

* "The pipeline would ease railroad congestion all over the central USA. The pipeline’s absence is forcing oil producers to move crude by railroad tanker car. Rail shipments of Oil are far riskier than pipeline supply."

Exaggerated. It will only help with some few specific shipments, not "all over the country." Not to mention that there has been no complaints anywhere about clogged rail lines.

* "In fact Keystone is a joint venture between the US and Canada and a win win for the economies of both countries.
In addition the security of both countries would be greatly benefited by the use of North American oil."

That would be cool, unfortunately, all reports are that this stuff is destined for export.

* there is no indication that Americans safety is MORE endangered without it than with it. Unless of course, they persist in allowing substandard rail cars, not made for this kind of thing to continue to be used to ship it. The fact that the oil companies involved have made no effort at all to see to the CORRECT AND SAFE shipment of their products, doesn't speak well to the concern with believing that they wont cut corners building the pipeline as well.

*
Energy independence would so greatly empower the American economy and foreign affairs and that just irks leftists.
They are so blinded by their hatred of American Exceptionalism that they have sold their sole to the lies of hedge fund billionaire Tom Steyer while they scream about the Koch brothers.


First of all, no one has sold their sole. That would refer either to fish, or to portions of footwear. And there is no indication at all, that Keystone has anything at all to do with Energy Independence for the US. As I said, this stuff is all set for export, it is no more available to the US on the cheap than Iraqi oil was.

You are no doubt correct that the more fanatic of the Left are just as prone to ignore facts and reality as the fanatic portion of Right is. However, the idea of all leftists and liberals (they are not identical any more than all conservatives are right wing) are intent on bringing down the US and or opposing the idea that the US is "exceptional," is Right wing propaganda.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 181
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:04:08 PM
PIPELINE BLOCKED ...



There goes those 35 full time jobs and 15 part time jobs.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 182
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:10:09 PM
The real Senate will vote for the pipeline in a couple months. Not to worry.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 183
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:17:53 PM
^^^ I personally hope so. Oil keeps a lot of my friends fed and in warm homes. More jobs are more jobs, for both countries. I don't see us giving up our cars anytime soon.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 184
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:58:45 PM
Romney was thumbs up for the pipeline in a split second of reasoning.Versus Obama.I guess screwing around in the Middle East is more exciting.

Irish is in a huge rush to exhaust domestic supplies.The biggest mistake was Americans not getting more heavily involved with the tar sands earlier.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 185
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/18/2014 6:50:07 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/all-eyes-keystone-xl-another-canadian-tar-sands-pipeline-quietly-snakes-us-285256

We already have on tar sands pipeline running through the US. Why do we need another one?
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 186
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 4:19:02 AM
The entire western world depends on oil.Europe depends on Russian gas.The Saudis could hardly be considered true friends.The Middle East could spiral out of control at any time.The Chinese can and will outbid for petroleum products if supply tightens.India also has increasing demands with a one billion or whatever population.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 187
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 5:52:44 AM
The Environment is a subject that brings to light like few others the great capacity for hypocrisy,contradiction,double standards an incredible disconnect from reality and just plain silliness that human beings have.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 188
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 12:12:07 PM
Republican support for this pipeline absolutely bumfuzzles me. They claim to be big protectors of private property. Look at the route of the pipeline--I can hardly imagine a bigger taking by Eminent Domain than this. Yet the Republicans are cheering it on.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 189
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 12:17:02 PM
Aren't there already thousands and thousands of miles of pipelines criss crossing the U.S. right now? And folks didn't go all bat shyt crazy when they pumped a gazillion barrels into the Gulf of Mexico. Sure, a few tourist towns had massive cleanups but it didn't stop the drilling in the Gulf.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 190
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 12:27:10 PM
"The entire western world depends on oil.Europe depends on Russian gas.The Saudis could hardly be considered true friends. The Middle East could spiral out of control at any time"

>>>indeed, as ISIS gobbles up the MidEast, ya'd think the price of gas would be jumpin'--the ME already is spiraling out of control. The last few times we meddled in Iraq, oil sure took a jump. Our own investors on Wall Street kept buying up cheap gas in the futures' market, raising the price for airlines etc when Iraq would get unstable again.

Yet we're paying $2.95 at the pump, even tho the ME is unstable and there's no pipeline to take up the slack. WHHHHHAAAT? howz dat happ'n? Throws every theory on its ear.

unless you know that the Saudis are overproducing, to drop the price per barrel below the point at which fracking in America makes no profit. So, let's see, if that cuts our production, and we help put more Canadian tar sand oil onto the market...what happens to the leathernecks in the Carolinas living on an oil boom? oh yeah, the same thing that happened to the geologists in the 1980's--they get laid off. And the Koch brothers make their money off Canadian oil, for the smaller bit of money they contributed to the GOP.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 191
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 12:39:32 PM
Message 196 ...
The Environment is a subject that brings to light like few others the great capacity for hypocrisy ...
Uh huh.

... contradiction,double standards an incredible disconnect from reality and just plain silliness that human beings have.
Uh huh ... and your point is? Do you consider concern for the environment "silly"?

Message 197 ...
Republican support for this pipeline absolutely bumfuzzles me. They claim to be big protectors of private property.
Well it's kind of like with the war issue. It's okay to send our children to war, just not theirs. It's okay to take other peoples' property ... just not theirs.

Yet the Republicans are cheering it on.
They're greedy. The money they get from the tar sands industry far outweighs their ethics.

Message 198 ...
Aren't there already thousands and thousands of miles of pipelines criss crossing the U.S. right now?
Yeah ... so why do we need more? Why should we encourage the destruction of the "boreal forest"?

And folks didn't go all bat shyt crazy when they pumped a gazillion barrels into the Gulf of Mexico.
Oh yes we did!

Sure, a few tourist towns had massive cleanups but it didn't stop the drilling in the Gulf.
Yeah ... we noticed! Greed just always wins out over common sense.

Seems to me it would be better to develop 40,000 + "permanent" jobs than 40,000 + 1-year temporary jobs. Developing clean energy jobs will give us more in the end ... will make us less dependent on the extra lethal tar sands oil ... whether it's meant for our use or not ... it will still poison our air and melt our polar ice caps.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 192
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:40:13 PM
Hate to break it you but you are a consumer like everybody else and just as much a part of the problem if it in fact exist as anyone else,the oil companies are out there raping mother earth for you just as much as anyone else....the greed is just as much for your money in the form of energy cost as it is anyone else.

You act as if there are millions of "clean energy" jobs just waiting to be filled when in fact it could be decades before such jobs are available in great numbers,but since I'm confident you don't work in such an industry you are content to have those people wait unitl such a time and go on welfare or some other government program.

Do you work ? if so in what industry ? and what effects does it have on the environment ? and is it essential and would it be missed if in the interest of the environment we got rid of it ?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 193
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 10:08:28 AM
someone pointed out a while back the argument the Keystone pipeline could cut down on what we get out the MidEast. Thing is, we get little of our oil from the MidEast, due to shipping costs. that oil goes to Europe and Asia, which owns our treasury bills (in case you wonder why we spend our kiddies to the ME when we aren't getting oil from there). We Americans get our oil from Venezuala, Mexico and....Canada already. And now we over-produce, so long as the price per barrel stays above $80 or so. If the pipeline floods the market and lowers the price of oil, frackers may have to lay people off, like any firm would.

There was just an article on how the US gov't is making a profit off of business loans to alternate energy firms, after the whole Solyndra scandal, but I can't remember where I saw it so I can't provide the link at the moment. Production of energy isn't the only issue when answering the question, "what happens when I flip the light switch?", there's the matter of the transport network being decades old and not efficient, and there's the matter of how efficient your lightbulb/washing machine/etc is. The lower the demand, the lower the electric bill.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 194
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 10:59:06 AM

There was just an article on how the US gov't is making a profit off of business loans to alternate energy firms, after the whole Solyndra scandal, but I can't remember where I saw it so I can't provide the link at the moment.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-11-12/u-dot-s-dot-expects-5-billion-from-program-that-funded-solyndra
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 195
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Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 11:08:37 AM

Hate to break it you but you are a consumer like everybody else and just as much a part of the problem if it in fact exist as anyone else,the oil companies are out there raping mother earth for you just as much as anyone else ...
Probably not. I don't drive gas-guzzlers.

... the greed is just as much for your money in the form of energy cost as it is anyone else.
Could be, but I do my best not to oblige them.

You act as if there are millions of "clean energy" jobs just waiting to be filled when in fact it could be decades before such jobs are available in great numbers ...
We don't need "great numbers" ... we just need to start building it. Instead of giving billions in tax breaks to the petroleum industry, it needs to go towards clean energy ... that would be a good start.

... but since I'm confident you don't work in such an industry you are content to have those people wait unitl such a time and go on welfare or some other government program.
There is no need for them to stop working in order to train for alternative work. They just need to cross train for an industry that is on the verge of erupting.

... would it be missed if in the interest of the environment we got rid of it ?
You're referring to jobs in Canada processing the tar sands? Those workers can be re-trained to do other jobs that won't destroy the Boreal Forest, won't pollute our air, and poison drinking water that our planet will desperately need someday.

If your profile is correct, you have no children and so I can well understand that you have no reason to be concerned about the future of our planet. That's pretty shallow when you think about it.

Me, me, me ... that's pretty much what that kind of destructive greed is all about. Who cares about anyone else or the future of our planet ... right? Who cares about anything but indulging yourself right now no matter how it affects anyone else. You've got good drinking water so who cares if the process of harvesting the tar sands poisons the people downstream ... right?

Who cares if the process of harvesting the tar sands robs millions of animals of their natural habitat for nothing more than to pollute the air and then again when the oil is burned ... right? You don't care because as far as you're concerned there is no one to come after you, so it doesn't matter what state the planet is left in once you're gone ... right?
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 196
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 11:59:51 AM
Sone folks listen too much to Al Gore, Neil Young, Leonardo DiCapprio and the like....who all drive cars and fly around the world and have, and continue to, leave a very large carbon footprint. When all these folks fly up to Fort McMurray to have a look at the oil sands projects....they burn a ton of aviation fuel, rent cars, stay in hotel rooms and eat....they b!tch and then repeat on the trip back to their mansions. For every person that whines about the fields, streams, geese, trees and water...there are a 100 folks doing there best to figure out a cleaner way of doing business and not "business as usual". The oil sands projects employs thousands and supports companies from Canada, the US and world wide.

There was a huge "to do" a couple years ago about 13 ducks that died when they got covered in oil from a tailings pond in Fort McMurray. There are thousands of members of Ducks Unlimited that shoot millions of ducks a year for sport. WTF.

And it doesn't matter if you don't drive a gas guzzler - you still drive.

I care, the people that work in the oil sands care too.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 197
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 1:54:05 PM
I care toooo, but not the f350 driving rig pigs . .

110-350 gallons of f.r.e.s.h. water is used for each barrel produced, so yeah, let's keep using up one of the
largest fresh water basins in the world, the above poster lol'd about the ducks, **** the ducks, go read
how the caribou have been decimated and will be extinct by mid century . . caribou=food

as for the deluded feds/albertans that think they're gonna pipe that shit through my province and ship it by tanker, think again, and while you're thinking go research bitumen and cold weather, < clean up of a cold ocean spill of bitumen isn't something anyone is sure about how to clean up.. hint... it sinks

oh and let's not forget the serious leak in 2013 that CNRL is so sorry for . . yanno the reported *cough 1,000,000
litres that they felt they didn't communicate in a timely fashion to the locals about ..whatever the lying ****s mean
by that

treaties be damned

* (2013) three years later they are still cleaning up Kalamazoo
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 198
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 2:22:43 PM
^^^^
Nobody drives F350's in B.C?A one ton truck is for pulling,not posing.Caribou were affected by Hydro Quebec's massive dams,but that's renewable,right?Better think twice about allowing a pipeline,the states are legalizing and your cash crops don't bring the same kind of money anymore.The Indians are just looking for bigger checks,they drive nice trucks around here.Those chiefs will be flying in jets soon if they get their way.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 199
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 2:54:45 PM
hmm. Nothing about B.C. mowing down the trees for you folks that live in houses (which is all of us), nothing about the salmon stocks, nothing about the mining industry, pollution of the Fraser? Yanno, not all the folks that live in B.C. are tree hugging, berkinstock wearing, Suzuki flag waving, vegetarian, B.C. bud growing eco warriors. It's a province of consumers and users just like any other province or state. I'm sure there will be a pipeline to the west coast as it's all taxable income for both provinces.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 200
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/20/2014 3:09:36 PM
Do we really need all that oil? What for?

What about 3 times the pollution when they mine and burn it? I don't want my grandchildren (no matter how great, great) to have to run around in gas masks even though their cars are electric or burn no oil at all.
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