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 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 301
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?Page 13 of 34    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)

Agreed if you start dating a new person and you have interest that an FWB would naturally go by the wayside...a couple dates in there may be an overlap (but until your relationship is sexual, it's not really a bad thing)

So then you'd be ok, with spending the evening, dinner, dancing etc knowing the guy was with his FWB the night before, then have a few kisses... He says , " See you tomorrow...." kisses you goodnight, then he goes over and fcuks his FWB, and so forth...


but there are some here who seem to have a problem with someone having an arrangement (FB, FWB, NSA, whatever) while dating in general, even before they meet someone they might have some interest in.

If I am taking a woman out, perhaps try and kindle some romantic feelings etc, then I think I'd have a little trouble if at the end of the evening, she goes to her FWB and gets rid of any sexual or romantic tension that we might have been building....
And if I found out after the fact that's what she had been doing... then I'd dump her...
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 302
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 9:00:56 PM

Bull-fluff.

It's not "approaching this situation from a position of fear and insecurity"; it's "not being a stupid-head by doing something the other person may not like, then thinking that I can argue them into liking it, because I have dictionary definitions on my side, and therefore their feelings are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!"

Yes, every relationship runs the risk of failing for one reason or another. So, why DELIBERATELY INCREASE the risk by knowingly partaking in an action that one is aware that "most men won't understand..."?


Of course it is approaching from a position of fear and insecurity. To not do something that you WANT to do for fear of offending a person that you are not in a commited relationship or sleeping with yet, muchless have not even met is ridiculous. If that person would not date you because you did something legal and 'ethical' that you wanted to do BEFORE they are with you then they are NOT MEANT TO BE WITH YOU. YOU ARE NOT COMPATABLE. It would be a relationship that is doomed to failure anyways. I can't talk for anyone else but I believe that you should live your life being HONEST to whom YOU are and find someone that thinks that the way that you live your life is wonderful. Not deny yourself things that you want to do, or do things that you do not want to do in hopes of impressing a potential mate.


Yes, every relationship runs the risk of failing for one reason or another. So, why DELIBERATELY INCREASE the risk by knowingly partaking in an action that one is aware that "most men won't understand..."?

Another poster expressed the answer very eloquently (as he ALWAYS does).
He said that while he may go out on a first or even second date with a woman even though he is currently talking to other women on POF, he would not tell them that he was talking to other women as they may not understand. Too often people become irrationally jealous. Thet FACT is that it is not reasonable to believe that the SINGLE person that you are going on a date with may be dating/talking to other people here on POF. They have lives outside of you and are suppossed to! To get worked up about the fact that you may not be the only option is silly. Actually it is operating from a place of fear and insecurity. It is the same idea as asking your partner who many partners he/she has had and then getting uset at the answer. What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something). To like a person until you find out that they have involved themselves with other people before you is not reasonable. Of course if she held the World's Record for largest one woman gangbang on four different occasions that is one thing. But really you liked her before you knew. It is a fools errand to even want to know a person's past history (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on.
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 303
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 10:28:48 PM

What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something).

What they did is one thing... having to agree with it is another....
As far as starting a relationship, we get to choose whatever bothere s us or doesn't bother us....
Having someone else decide for you what you should be concerned about it definately not good....
As for the "bang your dad" parameter, it shoots down your argument totally.... Either her past history matters or it doesn't.... You can't have it both ways... Otherwise you're equally entitled to get upset about ANY part of her past....
For that matter, anything I choose to get upset about is also my business... no matter what it is... And the same rights apply to her...

It is a fools errand to even want to know a person's past history (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on

It's only a fool's errand if you think it is...
Some others may choose to make an informed decision based on the information... Not due to insecurity or judgement... they just may have their own preferences...


Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...
A woman may have had, and since been treated for an STD, that no longer shows up on a STD test, but may have impacted her otherwise...
Particularly for younger couples, several STD's may impact fertility... doing damage between the time off infection, through diagnosis, through treatment... particularly if she only gets tested yearly....
HPV, can go undetected, and her body may get rid of it on it's own without treatment, but leave her vulnerable to death from Cervical cancer... or throat or anal cancers... the same can be said for for the man getting penile cancer...
Hepatitis if it becomes chronic, can lead to liver failure down the road...
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 304
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 10:42:10 PM

Of course it is approaching from a position of fear and insecurity. To not do something that you WANT to do for fear of offending a person that you are not in a commited relationship or sleeping with yet, muchless have not even met is ridiculous.

That's pure unadulterated crap. Everyday people do things they don't want to do or don't do things they want to do in order to pursue a long term goal that could be compromised by pursuing some short term gratification. That's not insecurity or fear. It's mearly what intelligent people do to enhance their odds of suceess at what they are trying to achieve by evaluating all of those things and making the most intelligent tradeoffs. It doesn't suddenly become insecurity and fear when applied to dating.

He said that while he may go out on a first or even second date with a woman even though he is currently talking to other women on POF, he would not tell them that he was talking to other women as they may not understand.

If there is one thing that pisses me off it's someone assumes he/she knows better than I do what I will or won't understand and what I should or shouldn't know. I'm perfectly capable of being given all of the facts and deciding for myself what to make of that information. The name for that is manipulation.

To get worked up about the fact that you may not be the only option is silly.

I agree, so just tell me that information and let me make my own decision without getting worked up.

Actually it is operating from a place of fear and insecurity.

Fear and insecurity on the part of the person who withholds information. If the person withholding was secure and unafraid of what difficulties that information wold cause, he/she would not withhold it.

What they did before you became exclusive with them is not your business as long as you are physically safe (and they did not bang your dad or something).

The fact that even you have to throw in some exceptions is a good indication that what is or isn't some else's business is rather arbitrary. To that extent, I just don't delude myself into believing that there is some consensus on this and as far as I'm concerned, my business is whatever I want it to be. Period. If someone doesn't like that, tough. She can date someone else.

To like a person until you find out that they have involved themselves with other people before you is not reasonable. Of course if she held the World's Record for largest one woman gangbang on four different occasions that is one thing.

Yet another example of telling us what is not reasonable and then carving out an exception for a case where you think it is reasonable. Cut the pretentious crap and admit that what is and isn't reasonable is rather arbitrary. I define what I consider reasonable.

if the answer will upset you. Far better to not know and go on.

If there is one thing that is stupid it's the bliss through ignorance attitude. The facts are what they are. Remaining ignorant of a fact doesn't make the fact go away.
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 305
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/1/2011 11:39:19 PM

What they did is one thing... having to agree with it is another....
As far as starting a relationship, we get to choose whatever bothere s us or doesn't bother us....
Having someone else decide for you what you should be concerned about it definately not good....

You are going a bit out into the range that EVERY single sexual act that she has EVER experienced is now your concern. If she says that she does not feel that whomshe slept with is your business... then she is not the right womanfor you, which I clearly state in the post that you are quoting.


As for the "bang your dad" parameter, it shoots down your argument totally.... Either her past history matters or it doesn't.... You can't have it both ways... Otherwise you're equally entitled to get upset about ANY part of her past....

Nonsense. You are not ever entitled to know a list of the names of her previous sexual partners. but I included the 'dad' part to cover extremists that will say what if she slept with your dad. If she knows that she slept with your dad yesterday she should morally mention it to you as most folks would reasonably have an issue with that. But the key word that you use over and over again is 'entitled'. you are entitled to no information other than that which is pretaining to your health and safety. It is fair that you demand that of your partner. The rest is not an entitlement. It's a would like to know and will you share that information with me. In real world application. In scenario A. you ask your partner that you are planning on sleping with for the first time 'have you been tested for STDs, how long ago and what were the results?'She is required to answer those questions and refusal to answer those questions is reasonable grounds to NOT sleep with her for anyone. You are ENTITLED to these answers as it impacts the your health and safety.
In scenario B. you ask your partner that you are planning on sleeping with for the first time for the names of the last three people that she slept with and how long ago it was. Your partner is NOT obligated to answer these questions. You are not ENTITLED to these answers as they do not impact your health nor safety. They are simply your curiosity at her past relationships that you are now going to hold up for judgment.


Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...

Uhhh that is knowing whether you are safe. You can only test so much. There are no guaruntees my friend. If you are going to engage in sexual activity there is ALWAYS a risk. A risk of STD, a risk of pregnancy, a risk of her being married or playing with your emotions. Your desire to not deal with any reasonable risks that are simply part of dating and sex do not entitle you to her sexual past beyond safety matters. Frankly none of the things that you brought up pretain to a FWB relationship in any way shape or form.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 306
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 3:53:28 AM

So then you'd be ok, with spending the evening, dinner, dancing etc knowing the guy was with his FWB the night before, then have a few kisses... He says , " See you tomorrow...." kisses you goodnight, then he goes over and fcuks his FWB, and so forth...

If we've just met and only gone out once or twice, it wouldn't occur to me that he wouldn't have some sort of sex on speed dial. Men just do. They may not discuss it a whole lot - but as single men, they just do. I totally expect that a guy I've just met would. I might be surprised to find out a guy wasn't having any sex at all since his last relationship. It's just a given to me that most people have something on standby (if they want it). If a guy's doing this two months in? OK - that's a different story. Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point. Meaning, if a person's keeping an FWB around while dating you for a long time - they aren't that into you. If they are into you, the FWB will get boring, fast.

If I am taking a woman out, perhaps try and kindle some romantic feelings etc, then I think I'd have a little trouble if at the end of the evening, she goes to her FWB and gets rid of any sexual or romantic tension that we might have been building....
And if I found out after the fact that's what she had been doing... then I'd dump her...

Your response here was to my mentioning you barely know this person. If you've known her a week, how would you know this or why would it concern you? What if compared to any attraction to you the FWB is just no good and she naturally discontinues it? This happens with dating more than people know - bottom line is you want someone to want you and no one else - and while that's OK to want, stuff doesn't happen in such a black and white fashion.

And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place). In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.
 carptopus
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 307
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 5:24:34 AM
You don't see the inherent problems with

Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place,

In order for it to "overshadow" the ol' standby it has to be greater than with the ol' standby.
You (or they) have to be more attractive than the ol' standby. So you are in competition there. You may not even realize it.

And how confusing do you think it's going to be if the sexual tension is there on monday, relieved monday night, and then on tuesday "hey, where did it go? I knew this spontaneous date thing was a bad idea. I must have done something wrong. So this date sucks, that sexual tension isn't there." Then on Friday "WTF?! Sexual tension is back. This person's giving me mixed messages. Meh. I think they are playing games. I'm outta here."


If they are into you, the FWB will get boring

IMO it just forces the standard for attraction higher for potential new dates, what needs to be there to motivate change has to be greater than if the old standby wasn't in the picture.

Kind of like a new car. If you have a 2007 and a 2009 comes along, but it looks pretty much the same as a 2007 except for maybe 2 MPG better and a new radio do you buy the 2009, or do you wait a while to get the redesigned better model better engine 2010.
If you did not have a car at all, and you could afford the 2009, would you buy it or wait until you could afford the 2012?


a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture

IMO this is least common or most impractical.
IME the FWB was not a "real" friend prior to any sexual activity, they were a pseudo friend hanging around trying to get into the FWB. Basically, they're "friends" in the sense they pay you with the social facade in order to get the benefits of a more serious relationship without the commitment or responsibility.

People get into the relationships they want with the people they want.
Unless they see relationships or people as simply extensions of themselves and are simply using people. If people are simply objects for selfish solipsistic fulfillment then there is absolutely no problem arbitrarily changing the boundaries of the relationship at any time.
Otherwise people want to start out with one clear focus (in the very least in their own head) and remain consistent with that.


In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

IMO and IME they are usually the same. People simply delude themselves or rationalize the relationship into a FWB because of the more prevalent negative associations with the relationship labels.
"Friends" makes it feel more special and less dirty therefore more acceptable than FB. "NSA situation" sounds like a CSI show.

IMO and IME more often than not as soon as the sex is cut off, so is the "friend" social payment.
Unless the FWB knows the other one (and their continuing failed relationships) and knows it's "really" just a matter of time before they come back because it's happened more than once.
Or if one of them considers themselves the "nice" person, they stick around for a while...and then slooooowly fade away. They mostly stuck around not to be a friend, but to maintain their self image. i.e. "I don't really want to be your friend anymore, but I don't want you to stop seeing me as a nice guy/girl."
 top_hill
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 308
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:27:50 AM
I wouldn't tell the other person. If we went out on a few dates and there was mutual interest, then I would end the FWB before things got really serious between myself and the other person.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 309
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:04:29 AM
It's only a fool's errand if you think it is...
Some others may choose to make an informed decision based on the information...

Not due to insecurity or judgement... they just may have their own preferences...

Oh, and " (beyond knowing whether they are disease free) " is subjective too...
A woman may have had, and since been treated for an STD, that no longer shows up on a STD test, but may have impacted her otherwise...
Particularly for younger couples, several STD's may impact fertility... doing damage between the time off infection, through diagnosis, through treatment... particularly if she only gets tested yearly....
HPV, can go undetected, and her body may get rid of it on it's own without treatment, but leave her vulnerable to death from Cervical cancer... or throat or anal cancers... the same can be said for for the man getting penile cancer...
Hepatitis if it becomes chronic, can lead to liver failure down the road...


I agree with the above----which is one of the reasons why I've always been concerned about dating men who make a habit of engaging in one-night-stands and other forms of casual sex outside of committed relationships. For that reason, I don't make a distinction between these men and men who have a FWB (who also could be sleeping around). They're both dealbreakers as far as I'm concerned.

From a moral standpoint, I also don't view a guy who pumps and dumps his dates after spending one night together as possessing any more integrity than the guy who keeps a FWB, if neither guy discloses his sexual history.

Not all men engage in casual sex between relationships. My current partner dated and slept with only one woman after his divorce before he met me.
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 310
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:22:47 AM

If we've just met and only gone out once or twice, it wouldn't occur to me that he wouldn't have some sort of sex on speed dial. Men just do. They may not discuss it a whole lot - but as single men, they just do. I totally expect that a guy I've just met would.

I might...
I have several male friends who don't though... They even more so than me would be less likely to accept a relationship with a woman who's in a FWB.... So your expectation is possibly flawed....


I might be surprised to find out a guy wasn't having any sex at all since his last relationship.
Why? Men are just as capable of wanting a relationship before sex. They are as equally capable of not wanting a FWB.


Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point. Meaning, if a person's keeping an FWB around while dating you for a long time - they aren't that into you.

Early on in the relationship, you are not that important... I can equally see the person deciding that the 'effort' isn't worth it and at the first sign of the relationship being in any way difficuly, they'd just dump the person and rever back to the FWB....


And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place).

There again is a problem. If a girl I am seeing had a FWB then at some point, she would either have to discontinue contact with the FWB or end the relationship with me.



Your response here was to my mentioning you barely know this person. If you've known her a week, how would you know this or why would it concern you?

I may not know at the time... but if I was to find out later I would still break up with her as I'd look at it as a character flaw on her part. The fact is, I may not find out.... then again, I might...
Hell, maybe even her FWB might tell me..... in the hopes I'd break up with her and let him rekindle the FWB....
If I found out in the opening phase of the relationship, I wouldn't have any problem dumping a woman I barely know...

In that regard, a FWB is more of a problem that if she had been in a relationship. At the end of a relationship, the usual process is to discontinue all or most contact with the Ex....
 m_church
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 311
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:24:50 AM

Early on though the sexual tension you feel for the new person usually overshadows the old standby thing you have in place, whether you cut the sex off or not, so it becomes a moot point

What sexual tension??????
Where would the sexual tension be if every time it builds up, the person goes and gets her tension released with her FWB????????
 SirLaughsAl0t
Joined: 10/26/2011
Msg: 312
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When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:38:21 AM
@womaninprogress:
And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place). In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

Can you be sure that FWBs can go back to being just friends? It seems to me that one of them involved wanted more than to be just friends in the first place and settled for just benefits in the hopes that something else would develop over time.

Which brings up another point, how could you be sure that if they don't start up with the benefits somewhere down the road? A few drinks... maybe an arguement...


It would be a red flag for me and I would be gone. When I meet someone here, I know that they will be talking and/or meeting others, but I don't automatically assume they are sleeping with them. Yep, red flag.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 313
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:51:14 AM
(canam miles) If that person would not date you because you did something legal and 'ethical' that you wanted to do BEFORE they are with you then they are NOT MEANT TO BE WITH YOU. YOU ARE NOT COMPATABLE. It would be a relationship that is doomed to failure anyways.


Very true. So, I have to ask why a "certain user" is giving himself an anyeurism trying to tell me that a FwB is not a relationship?

Look, I don't care if a FwB is, or is not, a relationship. Hell, you can call it a "hootenany yum-yum" for all I care. It's the act of a person engaging in a FwB while I'm dating her that I find objectionable, not the label that one pins on it. I also strongly object to the notion that, since it's not a "relationship" (assuming that the "certain user" is right), a person in a FwB wouldn't be lying by omission if she failed to tell me about it when I asked her if she was in a relationship. I'm not going to throw my arms up in the air, grin sheepishly and say, "Boy, you got me! Since it's not a 'relationship', guess you're free and clear, and I have to keep on dating you!" I was born at night; I wasn't born last night...


Nonsense. You are not ever entitled to know a list of the names of her previous sexual partners.


Right. But, a current FwB is not a previous sexual partner.

Arlo...

(have they spiked the water with silly pills?)

ETA:

(ladyc4) Its' my position that if one has terminated a FwB upon beginning to date some other person, then one does not need to be revealing the FwB. Or is "not hiding things" actually an expectation of a complete run-down of one's dating and sexual history for the past 2 years?


Right. Her history, whether from 2 years ago, or 2 hours ago, is not my concern. But when her "history" is "current events", then it very much is my concern.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 314
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:55:31 AM
From a moral standpoint, I also don't view a guy who pumps and dumps his dates after spending one night together as possessing any more integrity

I'd agree that anyone who engages in ``pump and dump'' sex lacks integrity. However, if both parties are on the same page about there being nothing more than that one night together, it's not a ``pump and dump.'' I didn't realize anyone had suggested that as a way of having sex, so I'm not sure why it's relevant.

than the guy who keeps a FWB, if neither guy discloses his sexual history.

What is really funny about that is I've always found women to be the ones who are reluctant to disclose any sexual history. I've always been willing to disclose mine in whatever detail someone wishes to know it.

This happens with dating more than people know - bottom line is you want someone to want you and no one else - and while that's OK to want, stuff doesn't happen in such a black and white fashion.

Nothing happens in a black and white fashion unless someone puts a little thought into what is and isn't acceptable and makes sure that there's a clear line seperating the black from the white. That is not so difficult to do unless someone is deliberately creating gray areas to cover his/her ass later.

And again, a true FWB WAS a friend prior to any sexual activity - and therefore remains a friend after the sex is taken from the equation - so no longer having sex doesn't wipe this person from the picture (unless they were never really a friend in the first place).

That's true, so a true fwb in that sense would rule someone out for a relationship with me. I don't date women who remain friends with exes and previous partners.

In this thread what people are describing is more of a FB, NSA situation.

Which would be fine with me as long as those people were in the her past when I met her. I'm willing to leave the past in the past, where it belongs. I only have an issue with the past when it overlaps the present and I draw the line between the past and present at the point in time I meet someone. I make that known up front, so there's never any confusion about what that means and no excuse for misunderstanding it.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 315
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 10:17:06 AM

(womaninprogress) None of those things matter unless they affect you or hurt you in some way.


I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?


If it's not going to affect you in the here and now and it's past history - why go there? I agree someone telling you something isn't your business is rude (though true, as something someone did before they dated me isn't mine either), but you aren't required to dredge up your past either.


Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?

Arlo...
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 316
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 12:48:54 PM

I might...
I have several male friends who don't though... They even more so than me would be less likely to accept a relationship with a woman who's in a FWB.... So your expectation is possibly flawed....

I doubt it. I think more men do this than don't

Why? Men are just as capable of wanting a relationship before sex. They are as equally capable of not wanting a FWB.

Because I have heard more from men than women that while they'll get involved if someone comes along they want to get serious with, they'll take the sex in the meantime. A few in these forums have said as much as well.

Early on in the relationship, you are not that important... I can equally see the person deciding that the 'effort' isn't worth it and at the first sign of the relationship being in any way difficuly, they'd just dump the person and rever back to the FWB....

I guess if everyone I met was pretty much the same type of guy, it wouldn't make much difference. But myself and a lot of women I know get excited over a new guy and would totally want to see where it goes as opposed to an FWB that has no promise of being anything but sex.

There again is a problem. If a girl I am seeing had a FWB then at some point, she would either have to discontinue contact with the FWB or end the relationship with me.

If she knows a guy 20 years, he becomes an FWB for a couple months, she meets you and wants to see where it goes, tells him hey I met someone and I'm not doing this anymore, she's supposed to never associate with him again from a short term arrangement - or is this about all male friends or people in her life?

I may not know at the time... but if I was to find out later I would still break up with her as I'd look at it as a character flaw on her part.

Even though you've already said you've done the same? Hm.

The fact is, I may not find out.... then again, I might...

Many don't. And since it doesn't involve you - who cares?

Hell, maybe even her FWB might tell me..... in the hopes I'd break up with her and let him rekindle the FWB....

Any FWB who's going after their arranged partner's prospects isn't a true FWB - he's some other form of sex partner. A true FWB wants what you do, which is to avoid serious attachment.

If I found out in the opening phase of the relationship, I wouldn't have any problem dumping a woman I barely know...

Cause it's not all about you - who she barely knows. LOL, OK.

In that regard, a FWB is more of a problem that if she had been in a relationship. At the end of a relationship, the usual process is to discontinue all or most contact with the Ex....

The usual process for people who don't want their new prospect to talk to anyone they've ever dated, or wanted to, or married, or had a crush on. The usual process for you, maybe - it's not universal.

What sexual tension??????
Where would the sexual tension be if every time it builds up, the person goes and gets her tension released with her FWB????????

You can be attracted to a new person to the point where a standby (and that's what an FWB is) doesn't seem all that interesting anymore. And yes you can have sexual tension for someone you've yet to sleep with even though you're having sex.

Can you be sure that FWBs can go back to being just friends? It seems to me that one of them involved wanted more than to be just friends in the first place and settled for just benefits in the hopes that something else would develop over time.

If I can do it, and have friends who have done it, then others can do it. I'm not saying everyone will, I'm saying it's possible.

An FWB is supposed to be someone you're already friends with and don't want romantic hassle with. There are many types of relationships where someone's being dishonest about why they're there. There's no way to avoid that in every situation. Stuff happens.

Which brings up another point, how could you be sure that if they don't start up with the benefits somewhere down the road? A few drinks... maybe an arguement...

That's no different than someone hitting a bar and finding a random stranger during an argument. A person is either faithful to you or not. If they want to cheat on you, having no FWB in the picture to contact won't stop them from finding someone.

It would be a red flag for me and I would be gone. When I meet someone here, I know that they will be talking and/or meeting others, but I don't automatically assume they are sleeping with them. Yep, red flag.

Egos are also at times looked at as a red flag. People other than you will have had the attention of the person you're interested in at some point in their lives. You have to be able to accept it. This "all eyes on me" thing isn't far from someone not liking you spending "too much" time with friends, or family or work, or doing anything where you're not the main focus in their lives.

It's the act of a person engaging in a FwB while I'm dating her that I find objectionable, not the label that one pins on it.

Agreed that while seriously dating or dating with serious intent, that it's not right to have sex with an FWB - although the new guy better be putting out - that's for another thread.

What is really funny about that is I've always found women to be the ones who are reluctant to disclose any sexual history. I've always been willing to disclose mine in whatever detail someone wishes to know it.

Yes, but it's none of someone else's business to ask it, nor does it concern them. It's tacky to ask about it. I won't do it - it's none of my business unless (as a few have said) someone's around months into dating them. That should be disclosed. Otherwise so long as you've been tested and aren't giving me anything, I don't need to know.

That's true, so a true fwb in that sense would rule someone out for a relationship with me. I don't date women who remain friends with exes and previous partners.

For friends where the sex is no longer occurring, why is the friendship that was possibly around years before you came along a couple weeks ago an issue?

Which would be fine with me as long as those people were in the her past when I met her. I'm willing to leave the past in the past, where it belongs. I only have an issue with the past when it overlaps the present and I draw the line between the past and present at the point in time I meet someone. I make that known up front, so there's never any confusion about what that means and no excuse for misunderstanding it.

Fair enough. Remember though there are a lot of males she never slept with who may have wanted it, just as there are males she slept with that really don't. There may also be females in some cases she's slept with or thought about sleeping with depending on who you're dealing with - so that's not limited to males.

I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?

Listen, if I just met you and things that I did before I met you that don't concern you "hurt" you - I'd have to question your sensibility and sanity. Someone who you barely know can't do much to hurt you unless you take things way too personally - and in that case, it'd be your mindset, not their actions that cause the supposed "hurt".

Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?

I don't pry into the past personal life of guys I date for things that don't affect me (and if I wasn't dating them when they did it unless it was someone I'm related to or something, it doesn't affect me). Therefore I extend the same courtesy - if it doesn't affect them, I don't get into it. If I was arrested, or have some sort of STD (not sure why I'd be dating in that case), or something that DIRECTLY affected their life - I tell them so they can then make a decision. What color socks I wear, for instance has nothing to do with anyone but me - just because someone else has a sock fetish or hates a certain color sock or thinks something about socks is dealbreaker enough to back out of getting to know someone, it doesn't give them reason to demand that information from prospective dates - it truly doesn't affect them.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 317
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 2:01:06 PM

It's tacky to ask about it. I won't do it - it's none of my business unless (as a few have said) someone's around months into dating them. That should be disclosed.

That sounds good in principle, but in practice, women have always worked that into a conversation. I really don't cae, because I keep things very black and white as far as who I sleep with so that there are no grey areas to rationalize.

For friends where the sex is no longer occurring, why is the friendship that was possibly around years before you came along a couple weeks ago an issue?

I dunno, but it does bother me. I'm not worried about someone going back to an ex, but to me, it just doesn't seem proper to remain friends with previous sex partners. It may be irrational, but that's the way I feel about it and that's how it is. I don't sleep with friends because I want to remain friends with them without blurring any lines. I have a best friend who escorts and I would never have considered even posing a question about having sex with her. She would never do it for te same reason.

Fair enough. Remember though there are a lot of males she never slept with who may have wanted it, just as there are males she slept with that really don't. There may also be females in some cases she's slept with or thought about sleeping with depending on who you're dealing with - so that's not limited to males.

That doesn't bother me in the least. I could sit and listen to my fiancee describe what she's done in the past in graphic detail and I wouldn't be fazed in the least. If she spotted a hot guy and made some sexual remark about him, I wouldn't care. I'd just tease her about it. I'd actually probably prefer she be more sexually driven to think that way. I know she's not going to cheat on me, but if she wants to fantasize about some hot guy she spots (or two or three or whatever), great. Fantasize away. I'd like that sort of attitude about sex in a woman.

In fact, the new physician she just saw happens to be one of those drop dead good looking guys that actually had her flustered talking to him. My only comment was to ask her if she got a thrill from having to take her top off and have a breast exam. Really, that stuff doesn't bother me. I just think previous sexual partners ought to be gone. As far as having slept with females, that wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure why, but I dated a woman who was bi and the thought of her going out with another woman didn't faze me.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 318
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 4:13:46 PM

As far as having slept with females, that wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure why, but I dated a woman who was bi and the thought of her going out with another woman didn't faze me.

Well that's cool. Some guys do a 180 when it comes to women and don't even care if they are in the picture currently, but have a serious problem with males. Technically, gender doesn't matter - it's all the same crap.
 top_hill
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 319
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:57:44 PM

Not all men engage in casual sex between relationships. My current partner dated and slept with only one woman after his divorce before he met me.


Sure it's possible. But how would you know that for sure. Some people may not be honest about their sexual history.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 320
view profile
History
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:30:53 PM

IMO having a FWB while dating is the same as someone living with their ex they are "separated" from.


So dating is only for the celibate? Not picking an argument here, but I have to admit that I am quite surprised by the attitudes towards the whole FWB thing. Human beings enjoy sex, many are looking for committed relationships, some are not. We claim on one hand to understand this while on the other condemning anyone who chooses this sort of relationship. For me personally it seems safer, in many respects, than flitting from person to person, engaging in sex when it "feels right" whilst seeking a partner. In any case, we can't have it both ways. I don't believe that anyone to whom you have not made any sort of commitment whatsoever has any right to know such personal details.
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 321
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History
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 8:20:57 PM

I agree, so just tell me that information and let me make my own decision without getting worked up.

Yet people here are getting worked up about it. Heck even in this post you are getting wrked up about (assuming from the name calling and confrontational manner that you have displayed here).

That's pure unadulterated crap.


If there is one thing that pisses me off it's someone assumes he/she knows better than I do


It often seems to come down to people being worried about the date prefering the FWB to them and not being confident enough to simply accept that the date will choose whomever she wishes. Worrying about the competition is silly. There is nothing that you can do about it.


Yet another example of telling us what is not reasonable and then carving out an exception for a case where you think it is reasonable. Cut the pretentious crap and admit that what is and isn't reasonable is rather arbitrary. I define what I consider reasonable.

There are exceptions to just about everything in life. I think that her informing you that she slept with your dad is a pretty reasonable exception. it is sorta telling that you want to debate that sort of issue. Yes you decide what is reasonable for you, but there is a social level as well that applies. You do not get to decide for EVERYONE. Just yourself. Your decision does not trump her right to not tell you things that are not your business.


So then you'd be ok, with spending the evening, dinner, dancing etc knowing the guy was with his FWB the night before, then have a few kisses... He says , " See you tomorrow...." kisses you goodnight, then he goes over and fcuks his FWB, and so forth...

I would have no real problem with it. let's face it, I have a problem with the fact that I ain't sleeping with Jennifer Aniston, but I have about as much claim to her as I do to a person that I am neither exclusive with nor sleeping with, so whomever they choose to sleep with is not my business. If I am a good match for her, she will want to sleep with me regardless.


If I am taking a woman out, perhaps try and kindle some romantic feelings etc, then I think I'd have a little trouble if at the end of the evening, she goes to her FWB and gets rid of any sexual or romantic tension that we might have been building....

Sooo... what if she goes home and masterbates? She has now relieved that sexual tension. Is this a problem too? It has managed the same result. If her only interest in you was purely sexual then your competition is every guy. Again iit is silly to worry about it. She will want what you present or she won't. It is operating from a position of insecurity and fear to worry about what any other guy is doing or her interest in them.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 322
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/2/2011 8:26:03 PM

From a moral standpoint, I also don't view a guy who pumps and dumps his dates after spending one night together as possessing any more integrity


I'd agree that anyone who engages in ``pump and dump'' sex lacks integrity. However, if both parties are on the same page about there being nothing more than that one night together, it's not a ``pump and dump.'' I didn't realize anyone had suggested that as a way of having sex, so I'm not sure why it's relevant.


Of course you realize it, since you're the one that suggested it---and you're also fully aware of its relevancy here, or you would have ignored my comment. But in the remote chance that it slipped your mind, you did offer the OP this "pearl of wisdom":

Where she goes wrong is that she wants the convenience of an fwb she'll be sleeping while dating guys she hopes are relationship material instead of having sex with a date every now and then who would truly be in her past after having sex, like any other sexual partner.


Nowhere did you mention anything about both parties being on the same page when you suggested where the OP went wrong. Surely you're aware that in order for two people to be on the same page regarding a date ending in a one-nighter, neither person should be looking for a relationship---or someone runs the risk of getting emotionally attached---possibly hurt.

Since the OP is looking for a relationship, your suggestion that she have one-night-stands with her dates in lieu of a FWB to satisfy her sexual urges, is certainly not the answer. Obviously, on some level the OP gets emotionally attached to men she sleeps with. If she didn't, in all likelihood she wouldn't have a FWB to begin with.

Just because you personally are able to "compartmentalize", or have "emotionally detached" sex, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't mean that other people can easily do the same thing.


than the guy who keeps a FWB, if neither guy discloses his sexual history.


What is really funny about that is I've always found women to be the ones who are reluctant to disclose any sexual history. I've always been willing to disclose mine in whatever detail someone wishes to know it


Uh... that's because there's still a sexual double-standard in our culture. Men who have had many sexual partners are seen as studs. Women who have had many sexual partners are seen as something less complimentary.
 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 323
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History
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/3/2011 12:37:32 AM

I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?

I don't think that anyone here does. But That said, The individual's curiosity is not the arbitor of what is and is not socially acceptable as to what the other person is required to tell you.
In the end I doubt that most people claiming that they want to know will actually bring this topic up on a date. It is socially akward and generally would be considered a red flag by the other person that was being questioned about their sex life by a stranger. In the end, it IS accpetable that people have FWB relationships. It is common and not anyone else's business. If someone has a problem with that then it is up to THEM to bring up the topic and simply state "Hey look, I am really not into talking to women that may be seeing other people while we are getting to know each other. If you are in anyway sexually involved with another guy, please just say so now because that is a deal breaker for me."

Most people will pause for a moment and it gives them the opportunity to be honest with you that "Yes, I am sexually involved with someone at this time/ I am talking to other men at this time and if that is not something that you are willing to accept then I understand and wish you the best of luck."
That way, you have found out the information that YOU need to find out without intruding in their personal business and without putting the onus on THEM to anticipate what YOU feel is a deal breaker (As you can see enough people feel both ways that either opinion is reasonable to expect.


Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?

Well that question has been repeatedly answered. It is because it's not your business. Your desire to know does not trump the fact that you are not ENTITLED to the information. When it is brought up, people will often get ansy and confrontational (like suggesting that the person has some 'authoritarian issues', if they are told that whom and when they have sex is NOT your business). It is up to you what you will and will not accept. In just the same way that it is up to everyone else what they will and will not accept. It is completely in the realm of social norms to not accpet a first date interrogating you about whom you have slept with and when. If you are not willing to accept that people have that right to privacy then you two are not a match. It's pretty simple.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 324
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/3/2011 5:44:30 AM
Of course you realize it, since you're the one that suggested it-

Uh no, I didn't. You chose to rewrite what I wrote that way in order to deliberately misconstrue what I said to fit your argument. What I said was:

instead of having sex with a date every now and then who would truly be in her past after having sex, like any other sexual partner.

And that says ``pump and dump'' where? In your imagination. That's really pretty sad that you have to resort to deliberately lying to even try to make a point. I think you've pretty much cleared up the integrity question.

Nowhere did you mention anything about both parties being on the same page

Nowhere did I say they weren't. You chose to misconstrue what I wrote rather than ask for clarification simply because you lack integrity. You knew better, but a deliberate misrepresentation was the only way you could get a shot in.

Just because you personally are able to "compartmentalize", or have "emotionally detached" sex, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't mean that other people can easily do the same thing.

I never said it was easy. In fact it was not easy at all. It was something I forced myself to do to avoid the kind of drama here. On the other hand, anyone who can have an fwb and not become attached, already compartmentalizes better than I ever could, so I don't understand the problem. I certainly couldn't have sex a half-dozen times with the same person and still remain only a friend and if I could, it would be a mistake, since having a sexual partner for a friend is only potential for later drama.

Uh... that's because there's still a sexual double-standard in our culture. Men who have had many sexual partners are seen as studs. Women who have had many sexual partners are seen as something less complimentary.

As long as you're willing to accept ypur place in that double standard and remain silent, you have no reason to object to it.

It often seems to come down to people being worried about the date prefering the FWB to them and not being confident enough to simply accept that the date will choose whomever she wishes. Worrying about the competition is silly.

It has nothing to do with worrying about competition. It has everything to do with having the information I want to make an informed decision about the type of person I want to date. You might be stuck with few choices, but I can afford to be a bit more selective than that. It's a matter of principle and principles do have a price or they wouldn't be principles.

There are exceptions to just about everything in life.

Yep, there sure are and I want the information I want so that I can decide for myself what exceptions are relevant to me.

If you are in anyway sexually involved with another guy, please just say so now because that is a deal breaker for me."

Because I realized that there are also women who think like you do, I took that a step further and restricted women I would consider relationship material to those who would only date one person at a time. That was a prerequisite to even meeting me if a woman was looking for a relationship. That didn't seem to be an impediment to getting dates or meeting my fiancee, so I conclude what I did was reasonable. Had there been an fwb in the picture and had I ever found out about it, I would have walked without a second thought, no matter how long we'd been together. I won't allow deception like that to be profitable.

Well that question has been repeatedly answered. It is because it's not your business. Your desire to know does not trump the fact that you are not ENTITLED to the information.

No one was entiteled to date me, either. So, knowing what I want to know trumps someone else's desire to date me.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 325
When to tell your date that you have a FWB?
Posted: 12/3/2011 8:13:28 AM

(AT) Because *I* (that's ME, MYSELF) will decide what I want and do not want to know. *I* will decide if I'm going to put up with a "None of your business, Nosy-Rosy!" answer. Why is the *INDIVIDUAL* having the right to decide for him/herself what to accept, and what not to accept, such a bone of contention with so many people? Do you have an authoritarian streak we should know about?


(womaninprogress) I don't pry into the past personal life of guys I date for things that don't affect me...


Neither would I. I thought I had made it plain that I would *NOT* ask about sexual history; that was a little hyperbole on my part (which I had assumed most people would be sharp enough to realize). However, you have come up, once again, against the *FACT* that *I* am the final arbiter of what "affect(s) me"; come up against it, and failed to answer, or even address it.

What color socks I wear, for instance has nothing to do with anyone but me - just because someone else has a sock fetish or hates a certain color sock or thinks something about socks is dealbreaker enough to back out of getting to know someone ...


If someone had a deal-breaker that involved socks, and the colour thereof, and I happened to be in their category of forbidden fruit, I would bid them good-bye and Godspeed. It would never occur to me to argue them into seeing the colour of my socks as something they have to put up with. That seems to me like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole, and a futile effort to brow-beat someone (even if I was inclined to brow-beat people, I would have no interest in dating anyone that I could successfully brow-beat...)

(ohwhynot46) So dating is only for the celibate? Not picking an argument here, but I have to admit that I am quite surprised by the attitudes towards the whole FWB thing. Human beings enjoy sex ...


Sure, they do. So, have sex with the people you're dating. Having a FwB while dating someone else is just weird.


(AT) I wonder why some people have such a problem with the individual being the arbiter of what "hurts" or "affects" him/her?


(canam miles) I don't think that anyone here does.


Sure sounds like that to me.


But That said, The individual's curiosity is not the arbitor of what is and is not socially acceptable...


But, I'm not *ARGUING* what's socially acceptable: I'm arguing what's acceptable to *ARLO TROUTMAN*. Let me state, once again, that I would *NOT* accept my date having a FwB on the side to be acceptable, and I would *NOT* find it acceptable that she thought hiding the fact from me was a good dating strategy (or even respectful of my autonomy as a person). My *OPINION* (which is what the OP aked for -- opinions) is that FwB should be disclosed upfront. OP appears not to like that answer.


Well that question has been repeatedly answered.


Well, a lot of electrons gave thier lives in the effort to convince me to accept what I find unacceptable, yes, and some people have tried to suggest that there's something wrong with me because I refuse to accept that which is unacceptable to me. If people wanna talk about which wires are crossed in my head, they should start a thread entitled "There's Something About Arlo".

I don't know how to express it any more simply: *I* will accept what *I* find acceptable. I will *NOT* be brow-beat or intimidated into accepting what others say I must accept, just because there's nothing illegal with it. (Male chauvinism isn't "illegal": why do so many wimmin have a problem with it?)

Arlo...
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