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 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 55
Guns in private hands ?Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
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Im glad we still have the right to keep tools for our protection.

Ironic that you should 'bump' this on a day when there's been yet another mass shooting, at a college in the USA. A "Christian" College, at that.
It's good to see "proof" that "religion is the source of our morality".

My answer is "No thanks", I prefer our laws to yours.
I hope you follow the gun laws more strictly than you follow the forum rules.

 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 57
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:20:36 AM
"Small bore" eh....?


Once again we have an incident where a nutter loses control but thankfully they are few and far between. I suppose there will be more gun controls again which only mean legitimate holders will driven underground.


First of all, if they're "driven underground", then they won't be "legitimate holders" will they...?
And secondly, it's funny how all these supposed "few and far between" incidents have been "nutters" who were also licensed gun holders.

As I said earlier in the thread, the fact that people WANT them alone, should be cause for concern IMO.
All the people arguing FOR guns, seem to be very angry, and opinionated individuals.
They all seem to say that they'd happily shoot someone, if the situation arose, (reading back through the thread, and having seen similar discussions, on other forums)
I think the authorities should carefully check through all of the forum postings, of anyone applying for a license...

 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 59
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:13:57 AM
Some Gun Fun! (not to be taken too seriously though a tad Americano)!

1. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
3. Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.
4. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
5. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.
6. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
7. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.
8. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
9. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive.
10. Assault is a behaviour, not a device.
11. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.
12. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.
13. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
14. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.
15. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
 Whitey5.10.74
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 63
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/3/2012 11:58:33 AM

Who many people (including on here) would kill someone if they knew that they could 100% get away with it?
For me to actually kill someone they would have to do something very bad to me or my family, but yes I would kill someone if I knew I could get away with it...if I felt that death was justified?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 64
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/3/2012 12:34:02 PM

Guns dont need restricting, we need to educate about guns and gun safety more than anything.
A gun is merely a tool, like anything, funnily enough there is a thread below this one about someone killing someone with a hammer....ive seen several stories in the past about hammer attacks...should we ban hammers?
Or kitchen knives? we should start making every home license themselves to control a kitchen knife!

I don't know if you've ever tried to knock a nail in, with a gun, but it's not easy, despite cowboy films, which pretend otherwise.
Similarly, shooting off slices of cheese, or buttering a slice of bread, with a gun, is very messy.
Yes, a gun is a "mere tool", designed for only one "job".
I can't remember the last mass murder that was committed with either a hammer, or a knife.
And yet we seem to already be becoming inured to such stories, about gun massacres, like the one today.
Edit:
Also, there are no "Knife clubs", where you go to practice your stabbing.


It's human nature to want to harm things, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be any need for anti-violence laws.

I'm not entirely clear on your philosophy here.
We also have laws about child-molestation, for the same reason.
We agree our laws by some sort of general consensus, in a democracy. (The opposition to the new 'snooping laws' makes it seem unlikely to be passed..?)
If the majority of people all wanted to walk about with guns, like they can in the USA., we'd have those laws too.

I think there are already too many guns here now, I wouldn't want any more.
I hope they tighten the laws further, as I find some of the comments, by advocates for slacker gun laws, on various forums, to be slightly disturbing, with many people displaying obvious 'bravado', and slightly too much relish, for the prospect of using one, on another human, for comfort.
 BobHaro
Joined: 3/3/2011
Msg: 65
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:07:22 PM
I don't want to bring every thread round to immigration as you so eloquently put it. But as my opinion, it does have merit.

Still if you want to leave the door wide open, be my guest, as long as they can stay at your place.



Bob.
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 67
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/4/2012 2:07:26 AM
IMO, the greatest danger we currently face from guns comes from members of right wing extreemist groups such as the BNP, EDL and several Islamic extreemist groups who are currently stockpiling weapons and distributing bomb making know how between supporters in preparation for what they believe will be major conflict should there be another Islamic terrorist attrocity here in the UK or on the European mainland.

Having suffered almost 30 years of murder and madness in Northern Ireland, it is sad that we still face the same real prospect of mindless murderous slaughter like that we saw committed by David Copeland in London, Anders Brevick in Norway and by the murderers of 7/7 being acted out time and time again in many British towns and cities in the months and years to come.....
 Whitey5.10.74
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 70
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/4/2012 12:02:00 PM

One night youths broke a friends window and he went out to warn them even though I hade 4 phonecalls to police (999)because the idiots were also lying in the road in the dark as a dare to see if cars would miss them.
The father of one came threatening but the situation was calmed. He then called the police on us !!
what is the answer? Execute people for smashing windows WTF
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 75
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/18/2012 2:07:29 PM
You can leave a loaded,****d gun on a table for 1000 years and it will not hurt anyone...........think about it.

I'd bet that there's probably several hundred parents of dead children, in the USA., who did exactly that, for less than 10 minutes.
Just saying...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 77
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/18/2012 2:40:52 PM

Well Jo, obviously you wouldn't leave a loaded gun laying about the house with kids roaming about, that would be very silly, I was just stating the obvious.


You're correct, I wouldn't.
I would have thought that "stating the obvious" would be:
"Never leave a loaded, and c0cked weapon, lying about anywhere, unattended"..
But then I'm not a licensed gun owner, so what do I know eh..?



And just because I have guns, which are fully licenced and inspected by the Police, that doesn't mean I am going to go on a killing rampage.

No, but it means you CAN, whereas I can't.

I very much doubt that that Breivik (Sp?) cretin, in Norway, could have killed 77 people in under an hour, with a only broken bottle, a hammer, or a chainsaw.
But like I said, I'm no "expert"....

As I said earlier in the thread, the people who I'd least like to own guns, are those who are most interested in owning them.


 Whitey5.10.74
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 79
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 4/20/2012 11:32:40 AM
I used to know a guy that was always messing around with guns, his mate was actually executed on his own doorstep, it was a case of mistaken identity, the killer actually thought he was killing the guy I knew.

2 months down the line, messing about with a loaded gun in a house, his mate fired it and the bullet ricoshaded off the floor and hit him in the head, killing him instantly.

Guns are dangerous. Best leave them under lock and key for the experts....Army, police marksman.
 stayinalivefl
Joined: 8/23/2012
Msg: 81
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 10/3/2012 6:26:47 PM
I wonder if the royalty in the UK has police w/ guns around them???
 ObjectStupidity
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 84
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 10/4/2012 1:56:53 AM
Where i work we often have a local club use one of our range on a weekend......I can say after spending many an hour observing them that i dont have a problem with civvies owning firearms....
However as a FAC holder with three 'variations' i think the storage of the weapons could be better regulated. In the 9 yrs ive had me FAC ive had just one visit at home to check the two cabinets.. A cursory glance an then downstairs for a cuppa an natter...No attempt was made to check the actual security of the cabinets..

I know the plod have a lot to do (bro is traffic) but surely a little more time can be dedicated to actually checking how secure the houses an cabinets are.
 ObjectStupidity
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 90
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 12/17/2012 2:01:06 AM
The 'Uzi' isnt relly an assault weapon as such. It fires the rong round, isnt accurate beyond about 30m an wobbles about when being used... Its more of a cqb weapon however I think the weapons hes on about banning are the assualt 'rifles' that the Americans are so fond of... Guns that have the AR15-~M16 as their basis...

But your right..why on earth does anyone need something like that at home is beyond me.
As i see it though the genie is out of the bottle an there is simply too much hardware swilling about the streets of the US for any ban to be meaningful.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 92
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 12/17/2012 2:52:02 AM
for indoor protection, you dont even need a very powerful handgun, there`s absolutely no legitimate reason for having weapons in the house, which belong in a military armoury,..ak47`s,ar15`s, medium/heavy machine guns, its liberty taken to extremes.
 rangerover1
Joined: 1/21/2009
Msg: 98
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 12/17/2012 9:47:51 AM
i'm with you Bob, if i have to call the old bill some day, it'll be to say I've shot an intruder...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 101
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 12/17/2012 11:47:10 AM
Only the USA can decide if their "Rights to bear arms" makes them feel safer.
I just heard on the news that there were record gun sales there, today.

People there, sleep with guns in their bedside cabinets, or even under their pillows.
That doesn't sound like they "feel safe" to me.

We have about 1/30th of the gun deaths per capita of the USA (3 per 10,000 Vs. 0.1 here, according to the news, just now)
It's still not safe here. We worry about the same stuff that they do; being robbed, burglary, rape, etc etc.

We've had our school massacres too, and the odd crazy person, with a gun, or a knife.
You're never safe, with or without guns.

But I feel much safer here, than I ever did in the USA.
I can freely make the "wanker" sign, at idiots who 'cut me up' in traffic, without worrying about being shot.
Driving in the USA., I always kept my eyes straight ahead. -Too many ".357 Magnum on-board" bumper-stickers, and too many rifle-racks, in the back windows of the pick-ups, for my comfort.

I think the gun and ammunition makers are laughing all the way to the bank.
Like all arms manufacturers, they sell a weapon, then tell another guy that "hey, that other guy over there has a weapon, maybe you should buy one too, he seems really angry."
They tell people that if you REALLY loved your family, you would protect them.
It's got to be the easiest sale in the world.

Only America can decide if they want more guns, or fewer.
Only America can decide if they want to arm their schools, or even their children, to guard against this sort of attack, but run the risk of the janitor, or the headmaster, or the child, freaking out one day. and emptying the 'clip'.

As long as they keep their guns to themselves, and only shoot at other Americans, it's none of my business.
(And yes, I'm well aware that we are just as guilty as them, when it comes to illegal wars etc., but that's not the topic)
I'd prefer to stay here, I prefer our gun laws, to theirs.


 tonym_jersey
Joined: 9/15/2011
Msg: 108
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 1/26/2013 12:50:01 AM
So if someone breaks into your house alan...it's women and kids for themselves, while your out the door. Is this British men today? What happened to you guys?
 tonym_jersey
Joined: 9/15/2011
Msg: 110
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 1/26/2013 12:55:18 AM
I don't know what day tripping means. Are you saying that Americans are not allowed on the UK forums?
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 113
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 1/26/2013 5:40:42 AM
Be careful of statistics. The possession rate quoted is wrong, it relates to the average number of guns per citizen. As many gun owners in the US possess multiple weapons the possession rate is much lower and unknown.

Firearm related deaths per 100,000 people:

The US has 10.2 and comes in at 10th position behind

El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Mexico, Colombia , Brazil, Panama

The unit Kingdom comes in with 0.25 in 68th place.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 114
Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 1/26/2013 5:52:41 AM

The US has 10.2 and comes in at 10th position behind

El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Mexico, Colombia , Brazil, Panama

Yeah, but to be fair, they are trying really hard to get to number one.
It's just a matter of time....
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 116
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 3/11/2013 4:05:59 AM
I'm not sure anything needs to happen other than the police forces to use the powers they already have. A police officer from another force gave evidence saying that in his area the firearms licences would have been removed.

I think all applications and renewals for shotgun and firearms licences are automatically referred to the relevant GP. If that GP has concerns the licence isn't issued. Ownership of an unlicensed firearm can itself give you five years in prison.

There is no requirement for the Chief Constable to issue / renew firearms licences if there are concerns over the stability of the applicant or if the guns are improperly stored, used etc.

The other comment during the inquest was from an expert who thought that if Atherton hadn't had access to firearms he probably would have found another way.

There seems to be a train of thought that simply creating more rules will make problems go away rather than simply applying some commonsense.
 icarusi
Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 117
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 3/11/2013 6:06:38 PM

There is, enshrined in the Constitution, 'The Right To Bear Arms'

Only 'as part of a 'well regulated malitia'. The main US right to bear arms is an 'established right' not a constitutional right. Established rights can be changed without changing the constitution, a more difficult prospect. That's the main reason why the NRA keep banging on about the limited 2nd amendment rights.
 icarusi
Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 118
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Guns in private hands ?
Posted: 3/11/2013 6:22:39 PM

The unit Kingdom comes in with 0.25 in 68th place.

IRC Germany, of the 'sensible' countries, has the lowest number of gun deaths with the highest number of guns owned. Interesting to look at the murder/suicide breakdowns, where stated. Fewer guns available = fewer gun deaths. I don't think 'defence' guns in private hands works. Most would 'threaten' rather than use, and the crims know that. Once there, they're readily available for mishap, accident and theft.
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