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 Forrest Grump
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 4
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Will we get an EU referendum now?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
OP

Surprised this hasn't been discussed on here yet. Are people pro or anti EU?


Are you taking the p***?

Carry out a thread search. Type in EU on the UK Forums. I think you will find a number of threads on the EU.

 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 11
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/9/2011 5:04:22 PM
I think a referendum would be pointless

It would be like asking juggling monkeys to analyse the results of a cat scan really as most people really have no idea of what the real pros and cons are for the various aspects or types of involvements we could have in the eurozone really are

And all we would have to decide on would be politically spun drivel that is designed to shift focus to the ridiculous and avoid the relevant anyway

One example is the "meddling" of the EU, which rarely tends to mention that one of the aspects of that meddling is a basic document of human rights similar to the US constitution which would give every person innalienable basic rights that couldnt be taken away by local legislation

Instead what do we have?

The removal of the unfair dismissal proceedure
The circumvention of laws for holidays, overtime, maximum work week etc
Erosion of freedom of speech
Presumption of guilt

WOW, thank god we didnt let those eurocrats force their annoying "rights" onto us eh?

God forbid workers were allowed rights to a fair weeks pay for a fair weeks work. We must really miss the work houses we abolished in the last century

As with most things nowadays this is portrayed as a one or the other discussion when theres a myriad of possibilities between the two extremes.

But as with practically everything its dumbed down to a bipolar arguement and then one side is demonised which is usually the one that we "should" support, but because of the media tainting generally dont

Not having any active involvement in the EU basically just benefits the REALLY rich and tends to have a mostly negative effect on the poor long term. But too much involvement or no involvement are equally bad for the country overall
 MilkyBarKid2
Joined: 1/4/2011
Msg: 12
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/9/2011 7:44:30 PM
MikeWM Wrrote >
>Instead what do we have?
>
>The removal of the unfair dismissal proceedure
It's not been removed - just tightened up - it was being abused.
>The circumvention of laws for holidays, overtime, maximum work week etc
It allows individuals to voluntarily circumvent overtime rules.
>Erosion of freedom of speech
It's now a criminal offence in some EU states to criticise the EU. It's classed as a racist type of 'hate crime'. In circumstances where this occurs the relevant EU state may issue a European Arrest Warrant for crimes which aren't a crime in this country - and you'll find yourself in some european jail. So here we have erosion of freedom of speech by the EU.
See what has happened to the German reporter who reported on corruption in the EU - he was arrested and subject very unpleasant interrogation. Look at what happens to anyone who criticises the EU - Martha Andreassen etc. Freedom of speech is being eroded in the EU faster than virtually anywhere else.
>Presumption of guilt
This country has unfortunately changed the presumptions in a couple of instances. Sadly with the "Corpus Juris" proposals from the EU - there will be much more presumption of Guilt introduced into this country, and probably moves towards a French Napoleonic law system which is completely antithetic to our legal system.
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/10/2011 2:41:26 AM
I think a refrendum now is an inevitability and it cannot come soon enough for me. I have campaigned tirelessly for one for the last ten years. It was a tadge disappointing that we had to elect a village idiot into the role of PM to get it but hey ho we get one so alls well that ends well. I think this is the best Christmas present I am likely to get this year. I used to dispair at how gullable the British people were but now I'm glad they are. Bring it on, the sooner we vote to leave the EU the better it will be for this country in the long run....



Thank you Mr. Cameron
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 20
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/10/2011 4:00:07 AM
The reason I have campaigned for an in/out referendum on the EU has been because I fundamentally believe that the day when the best interests of this country would be served by listening to the Alf Garnets of UKIP and the Brownshirts of the BNP will never dawn. For many years I believed that the result of any such refrendum would be to stay in, probably by the same margin as last time, ie 2:1, and that would enable sensible people to tell them to STFU as Sarcozy just did to Cameron.

However recent events have changed my view radically and I now see the current economic crisis as the best opportunity we have ever had to strengthen the European Union and that would now undoubtedly best be done without the UK as a member. Well I say UK, what I mean is the UK government in Westminster as there are good reasons to believe that the other countries in our union might not follow the UK over the cliff face like Lemmings. Although it may well lead to the break up, IMO, of the UK, I think that is a price worth paying and I will be campaigning as hard to ensure an OUT vote now as I would have for a YES vote before.

As for where I campaign, all over the place, on-line, at Labour party consituancy meetings, petitioning MPs and ministers and at every other opportunity I get. I even performed on stage at a Christmas dinner function near Bristol last night and took that opportunity when the subject came up to encourage those present involved in the discussion to believe that what Cameron did was good for Britain even though 99% of what they were saying to me was nonsence.

HTH...........
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 25
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/10/2011 4:00:32 PM
theoldbill,

My position has always been that I fully support the principles and ideals upon which the EU was founded, towit free movement of people, goods and services and co-operation between countries and to that end, were it in my power to do so I would have the UK apply to join both the Euro and Schengen tomorrow and also to abandon our opt out of the social chapter. However, the best way to acheive that now, to my mind at least, is for the UK to have a referendum and for that vote to be for us to leave the EU.

After we have done so it will only be a matter of time before we are again applying to re-join but when we do we will not be allowed any rebate as we now have and nor will we be opting out of the things I have mentioned anymore. We will not be sending a majority of our MEPs to behave in the childish and distruptive way in which UKIP & the BNP behave and nor would we have our largest party, the Conservatives, sitting with extreemist parties as they now do having left the main Conservative grouping. All this will, IMO, result in the UK taking a far more positive role in the advancement of the EU and it's institutions much to the benefit of both the EU and the UK.

As for why Scotland, Wales and NI might not following us out of the EU thus breaking up the UK, that possibility is now very high given that all those areas, and particularly Scotland and NI have benefitted massively from EU membership. Neither of those countries share the 'Little Englander' mentality that has been so indoctrinated into minds of the English by a longstanding anti EU propaganda campaign waged by the right wing media and politicians. Both Scotland and Wales would have greater representaion in Europe as independant states and both would have more valid justification for making more applications for EU funds, the majority of which are currently used in England especially in areas in and around around London and the Tory heartland Shires.

I personally would not be at all surprise to see the UK applying to rejoin and adopt the Euro within months of an OUT vote especially if the financial markets turn their attention to the pound since we are, in effect, in a far worse economic position than either Greece or Italy and are now without any friends in Europe to call upon for help.

Having the UK's position of influence in the world significantly diminished will, IMO, also be a great advantage to the people of this country in the long run too........
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/10/2011 5:24:38 PM
Thing is though we have a leader who will look after the british millionaires and the shareholders of international companies NOT one who gives a flying f*ck about the "british people"

Infact we havent had a leader who REALLY gives a toss about the majority of the british people since perhaps Churchill
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 30
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/11/2011 9:56:07 AM
Theoldbill,

I think you may have mis-read or mis-understood my posts. I want people, including you, to vote to leave the EU. I don't care if you do it because of a fear of a United States of Europe, because you think 74.5% of our laws are made in the EU or any other reason you care to come up with so long as you and most other people vote to leave. That is the best thing to do in the long term for this country without any doubt, IMO.

I do not think we will be let back in within months, our exclusion will be a minimum of five years and most probably ten even though I do think we will be making noises or even an application to rejoin within 18 months. The UK has given both the French and the Germans a bloody nose and we will be hearing Non, non, non, Nein, nein, nein for quite a while yet.

If anything I wrote has made you or anyone else to think about voting to stay in then I retract every word of it, it was rubbish. Listen to Zeegary, he knows the truth.

Cheers.........
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/11/2011 10:11:14 AM
He is very likely to be left with little or no alternative Hereagain, IMO. The pound is dead in the water just as soon as the gangsters and criminals of the money markets turn their attentions away from the massive stash of Euro's available for them to steal, on top of the countless billions they have already stolen from us, and turn their attentions to the UK. Our economy is in a more perilous state than either Italy and a few other EU countries.

The only thing stopping them right now, IMO, is because they know we have no money and Gordon Brown sold our Gold so we are not worth mugging again. That coupled with the fact that it is our fellow countrymen and politicians who are the ones profiteering from peoples misery should see us safe long enough to get us through to a referendum on the EU. Well I hope so anyway.

I wouldn't worry too much about having the Euro as our currency, it is already legal tender, all shops and businesses use it or are set up to use it and most major shops will already accept it at the till. I doubt it will be anything that causes too big a problem other than the embarrassment to our politicians.

Regards.......
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 33
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/12/2011 3:38:33 AM
Moody's has said the EU has a "continued absence of decisive policy measures", despite last week's summit.

The credit ratings agency reiterated that it will review the ratings of all EU countries in the first three months of 2012.

Another agency, Standard & Poor's, is considering downgrading the debt of 15 of the 17 eurozone countries.

European shares were lower on Monday morning, with the Dax in Frankfurt falling 2.0% in early trading.

Moody's said that last week's EU summit offered "few new measures" to deal with the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16137947

most of the world is expecting the euro to disappear in the next few years, all except the french and german leaders ..... i wonder what there actual people think?

quite a few of the people in euroland are with drawing their savings and investing in the british pound and market instead as a more viable option, just watch the pound rise against the euro .....

its all coming to plan for dave now, the riots to bring in more reforms and now poor old clegg is in a spin as he wanted in the euro gravy train even though quite a few of his own party didnt ...... hopefully it will break up the coalition this time next year, leaving dave to flex his muscle and start putting the country first with out the lib dems hanging on his tail coat.
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 36
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/12/2011 8:42:30 AM
“We are with Europe but not of it; we are linked but not compromised. We are associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.” — Winston Churchill, House of Commons on May 11, 1953.

another plus of the euro failing and other countries going back to their own currency is of cause like the old days of going to spain, greece and getting pissed on a fiver
 Forrest Grump
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 37
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/13/2011 1:41:22 PM
PawlCee Msg 24


There should be no referendum. The great unwashed electorate, myself included, are simply incompetent and ill-informed on making such a judgement. I may distrust the politicians but I distrust the electorate even more. Quite simple really.


After reading some of the posts on this thread I am inclined to agree with you.


MilkyBarKid2 Msg


It's now a criminal offence in some EU states to criticise the EU.


What countries?

Can you give any details of the Legislation involved? (or any link)


See what has happened to the German reporter who reported on corruption in the EU - he was arrested and subject very unpleasant interrogation.


Firstly, he was not arrested. He was detained and presumably asked about the possible bribing of a EU official.

Can you provide a link to your claim of a “very unpleasant interrogation”.


The cases of Mr Connolly, Ms Andreasen, are to do with Contract Law, not Criminal Law. They are in connection with the employment of Mr Connolly and Ms Andreasen with the EU.

Neither Mr Connolly or Ms Andreasen faced Criminal charges.
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
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Will we get an EU referendum now?
Posted: 12/15/2011 10:12:33 AM
That is a very fascinating point you make there Hereagain, just what will we do with our contributions when we free ourselves from the shackles of the EU.

Currently some €3.75 billion of those contributions gets returned to the UK and wasted on CAP payments to British farmers, well I say British, truth to tell it goes mostly to English farmers, well I say English farmers, what I really mean is the vast majority of it goes on to the balance sheets of a small number of Ltd companies based here in the UK and from there to their shareholders in dividends. Of the €3.7 billion funds we get back the main recipients each year are.........

Tate & Lyle Europe Ltd €827,979,239
Nestle UK Ltd €196,777,997
Meadow Foods Ltd €129,279,959
Czarnikow Group Limited €129,104,665
Philpot Dairy Products Ltd €88,307,975

When we finally shed the yoke of the EU then these payments will have to stop because to continue them would be illegal under both British and international law. It is unfortunate that some 80 - 120,000 farm jobs will be lost as a result, mainly in England as I said, but that has to be a price worth paying so we can write our own laws again doesn't it?.

In the past when I was foolishly pro EU I tried to ask members of UKIPs NEC what they imagined we would do with the money when we left the EU. Unfortunately they didn't appear to have given it much thought, and Lord Pearson, who lead UKIP at the last election after having taken over €250,000 off the EU himself didn't think people would be interested in that level of detail. How right he was it seems.

What would you like to see the money spent on?
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