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 AxeMurderer75
Joined: 6/6/2012
Msg: 152
Atheism and DatingPage 7 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

For strong atheists there is no such thing as a permanent love beyond self. if no one cares whats the point anyway.


This is so misinformed. Strong atheists simply do not believe in God. This doesn't render tham incapable of love. I'm not sure how you could ever come to this ridiculous conclusion.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 153
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/27/2012 7:50:58 PM
I used to work with a guy who was non-religious (never asked him if he was an atheist) who was married to a Jehovah's Witness. At that time, they were married for about 5 years when I started there and I was there for about 5 years, and they were still married by the time I left. What I found a little confusing is his wife took their daughter, who was about 5 or 6 at the time, to the weekly service at Kingdom Hall and the guy had no problem with that. The guy said when he was dating his wife, he went to a few services (or whatever it's called with JW) out of curiosity, and he said he was freaked out by it because of the extreme intensity of insisting you believe their philosophies on everything that affects your life and refuses to have anything to do with it, as well as any other religious institution. Yet, he didn't have a problem with his daughter being brought up in that environment. I guess that's a "to each, their own" moment.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 154
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/27/2012 7:57:25 PM
This doesn't render tham incapable of love. I'm not sure how you could ever come to this ridiculous conclusion.


Did I say incapable? No, I said permanent. As far as I am aware soul mates would be a conclusion of being ridiculous by atheists. Just a bit of chemical reactions. Meant for each other... fictional. Till death do us part... sure.
 Drawesome32
Joined: 6/26/2012
Msg: 155
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/27/2012 9:12:14 PM
rec_diver: if shes a jehovas witness hottie, id date her long enough to sleep with her probably, but not even think about anything long term. i have ZERO tolerance for religion. in fact, i probably wouldnt be able to keep my mouth shut long enough to sleep with her.
 MisterZee33
Joined: 7/22/2012
Msg: 156
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/27/2012 9:50:22 PM
Atheists simply don't believe in anything without real proof that it exists. Doesn't necessarily apply to gods. If real, actual evidence of supernatural beings was discovered that could be scientifically proven, atheists would believe in whatever god was proven to exist.

Personally, I'm an agnostic. I don't really give a crap about religion, but do have my views on it.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 157
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 5:05:35 AM
Agnostic means "the truth can never be known." It's a specific belief. It's just that popular usage has made agnostic some kind of mid-range between atheist and theist, which isn't really the case.

But, yes, as said, atheist is just absence of belief. There's no proof, so there's nothing to believe in, just like anything else there's no proof for that you don't believe in, like aliens or whatever. Allowing for the possibility sometime down the line doesn't make one agnostic - you're still atheist as long as you don't actively believe.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 158
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 5:09:28 AM

Did I say incapable? No, I said permanent. As far as I am aware soul mates would be a conclusion of being ridiculous by atheists. Just a bit of chemical reactions. Meant for each other... fictional. Till death do us part... sure.


Math makes "soul mates" ridiculous. There are 7 billion people in the world. Everyone just happens to find their 1 in 7 billion "soul mate" who happen to live in a 10 mile radius of them, as opposed to Bangladesh or somewhere. Right.
 AxeMurderer75
Joined: 6/6/2012
Msg: 159
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 7:48:04 AM
aries - We are more rational beings, so we can look at it in more of a practical sense. It's easy to fall for someone that loves you with all their heart and is beautiful to you and a great person.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 160
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 8:38:58 AM
I've dated atheists before, and I always ended up feeling mocked. It didn't lend itself to a feeling of warmth and closeness, nor acceptance. After this I swore I would never date another atheist, but that was needlessly closed minded and an atheist friend of mine challenged my thoughts in that regard. Not all atheists are created equal after all.

But I admit to being more interested in men who are open to the spiritual as opposed to being all blocked off. It seems to have side effects in other areas as well. I can see it working for those who do not consider this sphere all that important, but for those who spend a lot of time devoted to spiritual pursuits or debating the ultimate superiority of their position.. well, problems would likely loom on the horizon.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 161
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 9:16:01 AM
aries - We are more rational beings, so we can look at it in more of a practical sense. It's easy to fall for someone that loves you with all their heart and is beautiful to you and a great person.


No you are not. If you were you would have not thought about the 'falling' and thought about the 'falling out'. It is easy to fall in love. It is difficult to stay together. Both the super religious and the strong atheist may be to much too deal with in real life stress.

The rational position is, "If the relationship no longer feels good I can end it."

That is now the accepted standard. All the benefits with none of the work. The Religious side maintain an expectation of guilt for starting and ending a relationship. Non religious don't. Outside of passing laws making it illegal or financially non beneficial Government tries but fails to set standards. Religions can't pass laws but happily and eagerly pass judgments and social stigmas. It's pretty screwed up actually.

I have to admit it wasn't until fairly recently that I even know that all of these social confusions were really that serious. I had always thought that from the states point of view the lawyers screwed everyone to leach off the broken hearted and from the religious point of view it was just an extension of 'grandparents values'. I had no idea it was the inability for government to govern moral behavior and the authoritarianism of religious domination of all of life that was the actual struggle. Who knew?

So, in other words... Any one that claims they are more rational then other people I immediately find suspect on the grounds that we are all humans and are pretty much making shit up all day long because we live in a culture and privileged lifestyle that allows that. Due in part to rational thinking, science as well as the religious upbringing and past history of your current society and government

I would have to date an Atheist women to know what its like. I've only dated those that identified with a religion but didn't practice and still observed holidays. I would have to think it would suck to be with someone that rolled their eyes at the thought of Christmas.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 162
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 1:17:33 PM

After this I swore I would never date another atheist, but that was needlessly closed minded and an atheist friend of mine challenged my thoughts in that regard. Not all atheists are created equal after all.

Very true. You can't get upset at Christian fundamentalists and think of all Christians that way. To be an atheist, in actuality, all it is a lack of belief in a god or gods. You can actually be religious (see many buddhists) and be atheistic. "Strong" atheists, those who are not just non-theistic, but are anti-theistic, may be more like that. But even there, it can be on the philosophical/theological level and not on a personal level.

I could understand someone saying they don't want to date a "strong" atheist (anti-theist), but in order to find out if they are usually, you would also find out if they were someone who frowned upon your religious beliefs on a personal level.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 163
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 1:44:11 PM

I could understand someone saying they don't want to date a "strong" atheist (anti-theist), but in order to find out if they are usually, you would also find out if they were someone who frowned upon your religious beliefs on a personal level.
And even there it can be tricky, because someone can frown on your spiritual beliefs and simultaneously like you as a person/find you attractive enough to want to date you.

People lie to themselves about this type of thing all the time. The spiritual person sometimes downplays his/her beliefs so as to appear more.. datable shall we say. And the atheist sometimes gives the impression that he/she is more tolerant of the differing beliefs than in truth they really are. Hormones/pheromones/idealism/chemistry, etc.. can be powerfully heady stuff.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 164
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 2:31:01 PM

And even there it can be tricky, because someone can frown on your spiritual beliefs and simultaneously like you as a person/find you attractive enough to want to date you.

Well, yeah, they can frown on the beliefs, but not have that affecting their judgment of you as a person. You could have a strong belief about the country's tax system that are opposite of his, and although he frowns upon your political belief about taxes, he doesn't frown upon you as a person. However...

... others, like you later point out, can lie to themselves (happens all the time, yes), when really they don't like you so much as a person but JUST find you attractive to date you... and when that honeymoon phase wilters away, they can't keep lying to themselves anymore, and you both come to the realization that he doesn't really much like you as a person because of it.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 165
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/28/2012 2:41:34 PM
Or the more they get to know you, the more they DO like you.. in fact, they find they are in love with you.. but they/you also realize that there are incompatibilities in some pretty important areas.
 joe5
Joined: 2/9/2011
Msg: 166
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/30/2012 10:20:14 PM
I'm an Atheist and very well read on all the major religions, politics, social issues, I have very strong opinions on pretty much everything.
I cannot have a serious relationship with anyone who believes in intelligent design, or anyone who attends a church of any kind that follows a doctrine that was divinely inspired by "God" that contains the rules for us humans must live by, I cannot do it!
Yet, everyone I ever dated, or screwed around with, would fall into that group. But I have never been in a serious relationship! The longest "relationship" I have ever had was with a stripper who asked me out while at my place of work, and I didn't know was a stripper at the time, we "dated" for 2 and a half months.
But when I am looking for a serious relationship I know I am seeking someone who is a thinker, someone fair, someone who really gives a sh*t about people and the world, by default the theist does not fall into that category. And I know I can't take anyone seriously who has read the Bible and has not come to one of the the following conclusions: Either God doesn't exist, Or God is an ***hole.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 167
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/30/2012 10:30:58 PM

by default the theist does not fall into that category. And I know I can't take anyone seriously who has read the Bible and has not come to one of the the following conclusions: Either God doesn't exist, Or God is an ***hole.


This is an issue. Unfortunately the issue isn't what you would expect. It is not how dumb the majority of the population is but a problem with interpersonal relationships with the holder of the non majority views. Over time the world will move more towards secular views. It has always been moving that way. The problem is the inability to relate to people that fundamentally disagree. It isn't just you. Pretty much all wars were based on this line of thinking to one degree or another. In fact, just about all religions have conflicts over this as well. Your 'not right' is more wrong than my 'not right'. Fun.
 joe5
Joined: 2/9/2011
Msg: 168
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/31/2012 9:53:24 PM

The problem is the inability to relate to people that fundamentally disagree.


I can relate to the theist, I was baptized as one, attended two catholic schools as well. I know that the majority of theists are just afraid to question anything they were taught about their religion as kids. Fear is the base for every rule, without fear a rule has no ability to hold power, dictate, command authority. All rules in every form must have fear behind them or they have no reason to be followed. Religion is a rule system, and only holds power through fear, simple as that. For the average theist the consequence for breaking the rules is not worth the risk to even question the rules. Most people fall into..."Well, if you are wrong about God you go to hell. But if i am wrong about God i just go in the ground." They want to believe they are special, they want to believe their God knows they are a good person and will help them. They don't want to be the guy on the news who gets killed by a bus, the women who dies of cancer across the street, the family who loses their home in a fire. These people will never stray from that thought, they see no point in questioning it. I get them, I just don't respect them.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 169
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 7/31/2012 11:42:40 PM
Or the more they get to know you, the more they DO like you.. in fact, they find they are in love with you.. but they/you also realize that there are incompatibilities in some pretty important areas.

I think if they don't really value you as a person appropriately because of your views on those areas (politics, religion, etc), they won't really fall in love -- or they will fall out of love if realized after the fact... unless they end up changing their view that in fact, your view doesn't devalue you as a person.

For me, it's not what one believes and has a conviction about it, but why/how they believe important things that bleed into every day life, judgment of other people, etc... It reveals a lot about how they are and see the world. I would lose value for someone if I ended up finding out that they had convictions about things that saw judgment about other people, with childish rationality behind it as to why & how, regardless of their overall position/belief. I would lose value in he or she as a person. And I think that bears more weight when you're talking about bonding with someone on a romantic/intimate level. I could bond/mesh far more with a woman who had very different views on religion or politics than I do, than with someone who was generally in line but had insane reasons as to why. Obviously she'd not understand what reasoning really is -- and that, I could not date. But realizing that in someone doesn't take religion or politics to find out... of course if they have a staunch view on one of those, that can come out right off the bat. Otherwise, you find out irrationality in other ways over time, sometimes when you're already going steady with them.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 170
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 8:21:01 AM

And I know I can't take anyone seriously who has read the Bible and has not come to one of the the following conclusions: Either God doesn't exist, Or God is an ***hole.


I'm going to have to agree with this. There's no real possible reading of the Bible that anyone with even a moderate reading comprehension level can look at and say, "hey, this God guy, he's really great."

The Bible STARTS with "perfect" God making a flawed creation that fails! It literally starts with that! He then throws tantrums, painfully kills people that have never heard of him just because they don't want some group coming in and kicking them out of their homes, and then kills everyone that doesn't agree with him. Changes his mind all the time, didn't even have the foresight to create a female initially (even though he made a female for every animal!), and handles things in the most convoluted, backwards ways.

I mean, if it's meant to be a "might makes right" thing like Greek mythology, fine, but that's not the reading of anything but the smallest possible number of theists , and it's insane to read it any other way.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 171
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 8:21:30 AM

Utter nonsense.

You could not be more incorrect


I am not making a value judgment. Just straight fact.

There is no such thing as a permanent love beyond self for atheists. This is just fact. I am factually referring to eternal love. A love that exists in spirit. That is not incorrect it is 100% correct. If you do not believe that than all I can say is that you are not a strong atheist.
 LoveMyDog55
Joined: 7/18/2012
Msg: 172
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 10:07:09 AM
If the man I was seeing was an athiest but was respectful and didn't put down believers, then that's the only way I could date a non believer

If he had strong negative opinions about believers then that would be a deal breaker
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 173
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 10:34:47 AM

There is no such thing as a permanent love beyond self for atheists. This is just fact. I am factually referring to eternal love. A love that exists in spirit. That is not incorrect it is 100% correct. If you do not believe that than all I can say is that you are not a strong atheist.


If you are saying that you have to believe in a god to have a kind of love, "that exists in spirit," then you are believing in a delusion. Since god does not exist, you are claiming a kind of love that cannot - by YOUR definition - exist either! You are making a false distintion based on a superstitious interpretation of a fictitious concept.

However, since we are all human, we ALL have the biological and psychological makeup to experience the same things. The only difference is the intellectual interpretation we put on those experiences. The experiences themselves are identical.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 174
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 11:18:27 AM
so as an atheist so I don't really love my girlfriend...she's also an atheist and thus doesn't really love me?

Cripes, where do these religious whackos did up this crap? The dead-guy-on-a-stick continues to pervert the brains of the gullible.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 175
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Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 11:59:17 AM

I am not making a value judgment. Just straight fact.

There is no such thing as a permanent love beyond self for atheists. This is just fact. I am factually referring to eternal love. A love that exists in spirit. That is not incorrect it is 100% correct. If you do not believe that than all I can say is that you are not a strong atheist.


That's not fact. You're inventing your own undefined parameters ("a love that exists in spirit"), and using that as a basis to shift the goalposts of whoever wishes to disagree with your arbitrary label. Since you invented a concept in your own mind that has no definition, no one can ever say you're wrong, simply because there is no definable factual basis.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 176
Atheism and Dating
Posted: 8/1/2012 12:10:18 PM
The same happened when I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I lost the ability to love permanently. I guess that means atheists do not love their families or very close friends or their pets. How much Christian love-the eternal love that exists in spirit-was there during the Christian Crusades where countries were invaded and people were murdered for not believing in God, or any other religious based wars? Is that permanent love that exists in spirit?
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