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 AUTHOR
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 26
ContradictionsPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Oh my goodness, dear, you must be more than halfway attractive....based on the endless number of men you've told us about who have been so very smitten with you....


Snide remarks such as this is why I stopped responding to anything that you say months ago. I see that you simply could not resist the opportunity to take one more snipe at me. At least this time, you didn't impugn my education or career. I suppose that will come again at a later time.

I won't bother to make further comments on your comments except to respond to this:


I disagree with this. I think very, very few men will make 'improper sexual remarks' to any woman just because she is well dressed or attractive on some level. I suppose it depends on the enviroment, the type of men with whom one associates. I mean, if a woman hangs out in a certain kind of bar, or with a certain type of man, or walks past a construction site, she may hear some crude comments just because she is nice looking, but, in general, unless you hang out with the riff raff, it doesn't happen.


When you "got it," you "got it"--I wouldn't expect you to understand.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 27
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 4:37:27 AM

Actually, when you've got it, you don't need to flaunt it (or constantly brag about it), and I realize you don't understand that.


I can't figure out why you pay so much attention to what I say, anyway--a bit of an obsession, it would seem. Do you need my attention that much? Is it necessary to attack others with ad hominems?

Since it is so utterly important to you, the last word is yours, sweetheart! Post one more time and I promise, I won't reply--I am embarrassed now that I said anything. I need to maintain silence as I have been doing.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 28
view profile
History
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 5:01:37 AM
Excellent post, confident realist. Expressed better than I did, the general gist of WHY these real contradictions do exist.

OP, I wasn't saying you were wrong, that people are NOT contradictory. I was simply trying (as CR did better) to say that the reason why they ARE contradictory, isn't the due to the insidious and generally nasty things you incorrectly deduced.

And again, if you search on "Pictures," "Nice Guy," and "Women Say," you will find LOTS of existing threads with all of your subjects included. I don't mind a certain amount of rehashing (I'm frankly glad that not as many threads are being deleted for being redundant, since things do need refreshing now and again). But I do think it's both pertinent and efficient to point out when something is a repetition, if nothing else, so that both OP and respondents can maximize the effective use of their mental energies.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 29
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 5:39:02 AM
Because they're insecure and they feel the only way to attract a guy is to advertise themselves as a sex object. The truth is most of these women who say they aren't looking for a hookup.. once they meet the right guy and the chemistry is there.. are all for it.

Indeed. This silly trend isn't limited to the dating sites.


If guys realized how much of a turnoff it was, and how they're shooting themselves in the foot by making it all about sex from date number one.. they just might put the brakes on.. but from the stories I've heard.. they just can't. And I'll take this opportunity once again to thank them for making guys like me.. who aren't after just sex.. look even better than we already are.

HA! Even some of the young bucks start to realize how important self respect is. Just because because she wants to get laid doesn't mean man have to satisfy that urge or any other random desires.

On a side note. Redundant thread? I see more 'how to reject' or 'why guys ask me this or that' type of threads.

Blunt misandric reaction by some women to a known fact is disturbing.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 30
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 7:39:28 AM

Where are the misandric reactions?


Some posters see misandry in everything. If a women makes a negative comment about SOME men, it is immediately seized and applied to ALL men.

Shrug.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 31
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:05:14 AM
Where are the misandric reactions?

19 and 21 to be specific. Perhaps it is just personal attacks.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 32
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:20:30 AM
No it is insinuation that Author is a failure because he brought up uncomfortable subject that points some women as hypocrites. Common manipulation technique.

Not exactly misandric, pore choice of words on my part. I'm troubled over sexist site policy on bikini shots vs chest shots.
 Cupidguy
Joined: 12/11/2011
Msg: 33
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:33:15 AM
Wow! Thanks to "ALL" for the feedback, I didn't post this on a whim, I haven't been rejected, I don't make lewd comments to women when contacting them so there really wouldn't be a reason for feeling rejected. I posted in the first place because of several profiles of women wearing "teddies" posted by a "Christ"mas tree, claiming they wanted Santa to bring Mr. Right for them. Followed by a list of demands, such as the afformentioned post 1.

If I go to the store to buy something, Marketing has a good deal to do with what I buy. "I wouldn't have a picture of a shoe if I was selling tires."

There was also quite a bit of speculation on several people's parts as to my experiences on here, exactly what it is, speculation.... I have met many wonderful women on here by the way, and to be honest most of them well educated and not insecure..

I can't defend the men that are offensive to women that aren't seeking that sort of attention, I can just thank them for making it easier for me meeting the women they are offending. Good luck Ya'll
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 34
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:41:25 AM

Where are the misandric reactions?



19 and 21 to be specific. Perhaps it is just personal attacks.


MSG 19:
I guess you tried a couple of comments and they rejected you. Now you want to sound righteous by posting all the other stuff. If you didn't get rejected, we wouldn't be reading your thread


MSG 21:
Who died and made you boss of PoF?


Maybe try a new approach. “Perv” obviously isn’t working.


From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of MISANDRY
: a hatred of men


Perhaps I am illogical, but I fail to see how either of the above quotes fits the definition of misandry. They were directed at an individual and did not vilify all men nor show a hatred of men. If you felt that they were personal attacks on the OP, then you should have phrased your comment to say as much instead of immediately jumping on the misandry wagon.

By the way, my comment is not misandrist in any way, even though it is directed at a male.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 35
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 10:15:07 AM

I find the cleavage shot to be the invite to sexual comments

Nope. A cleavage shot is just a cleavage shot. A guy’s comments are uninvited. She’s responsible for the pic. He’s responsible for his comments.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 36
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 10:15:13 AM
Another semi-disguised nice-guy thread?

I don't think it is. It's just a guy coming forth pointing out contradictions; totally different situation. A classic Nice Guy would probably love such a profile of sexual expression + wanting something LTR. Classic Mr Nice Guys can't (usually) get women who sexually express themselves loudly, and complain about it... but if said type of gal wanted a romantic, sensitive man for an LTR -- that'd be his in, actually.

some men will see fit to say improper sexual remarks to her regardless of whether she is showing cleavage or not.

Very true. But they will be amped up with big cleavage shots, on the bed in lingerie, etc. It's about the Intent of her marketing where sympathy is retracted.

it bothers me that men LOOK when I exhibit cleavage, then I should cover up, BUT there is never an excuse for them to make sexual remarks.

Well, exhibiting cleavage on purpose IS a sexual remark. It doesn't take exhibiting photographic sexual remarks to get sexual remarks, true.. but once one does, they should get no sympathy upon getting them, if said gal is complaining about it.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 37
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 12:01:13 PM

…they have at least a bit of a naughty side, naively showed what they thought was a 'hint' and the fan mail came rolling like crazy... so they put all the disclaimers in there so they wouldn't feel like a slut and to slow down the perv-traffic because in the end they want more than a roll in the hay or guys oggling their chest.


Female sexuality is intimidating, isn’t it?

I suppose in a world that goes crazy over Janet Jackson’s nipple slip this kind of amateur psychoanalysis of the female gender makes sense.

Holy crap….women have breasts. And they are dirty. And if they show more than what’s approved by some guy’s buddies, then she is an insecure, mixed up slut who should expect to be treated badly.


Common manipulation technique.


You mean like accusing female posters of misandry over nothing?
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 38
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 1:33:17 PM
Disclaimer! The opinions in this post are not of a misandrist nature--they are not directed at all of mankind: they are specific to comments made in this forum and cultural issues which SOME men and SOME women buy into.

Muted Enthusiasm:

Nope. A cleavage shot is just a cleavage shot. A guy’s comments are uninvited. She’s responsible for the pic. He’s responsible for his comments.


I couldn't have said this more succinctly! (Really, being verbose, I couldn't have.)

The idea that showing a bit of cleavage equals an invitation to sexual comments is almost on the par of saying that showing cleavage or wearing a short dress is tantamount to "asking" to be raped; in the past, women were put on trial for their attire!

After the OP protested that he had not approached and been shot down by such women for making sexual approaches, I reread his post:


To me I find the cleavage shot to be the invite to sexual comments, so if you don't want to hear smut from the guys, clean up the shot. I love the caption "long term" followed up with a picture of a woman just missing the pole in the picture. Oh yeah, lets get married...

If you want to meet the so called "GOOD GUY" FYI, He's not looking for the girl that's showing off the whole inventory, he's looking for someone with VALUES, just the same as what you're looking for.


To claim that a woman who shows cleavage had NO VALUES is a misnomer. If it isn't, then the plethora of women who wear tank and halter tops during the summer in stores and restaurants are "valueless." Women on beaches have even fewer values. No wonder this country is in such bad shape! Only GOOD GUYS have values and the ability to discern women with morals.

By the way, the GOOD/NICE GUYS fill these forums with the lament that they can't find women!

This topic has been done before; if women haven't gotten the message yet, they aren't likely to with one more rehash.

OP, perhaps you should email each of those women directly and tell them what shameless spectacles they are making of themselves. Hey, I got one yesterday from a 24 year old man who asked me if I liked to "deep throat" and when I sent him a scathing email, he responded that I was too old to post pictures "like that." I immediately changed all of my pictures because I was concerned about his opinion.


Well, exhibiting cleavage on purpose IS a sexual remark. It doesn't take exhibiting photographic sexual remarks to get sexual remarks, true.. but once one does, they should get no sympathy upon getting them, if said gal is complaining about it.


See the comment from Muted Enthusiasm.

How does one NOT exhibit cleavage “on purpose”? Is showing cleavage sometimes an accident? How does that work? If a woman is wearing something that slips enough to show cleavage, she is already showing cleavage.

Put cleavage aside for a minute: men on POF and in real life make sexual remarks about my hair. I have had total strangers in stores compliment me on my hair and when I thank them, they segue into remarks such as, “I would sure like to feel that on my bare chest,” “That hair would sure be sexy hanging down on my face with you on top.” When my hair is in a braid, a couple of men have even said to me, “I would like to pull that braid while ______________.” (Fill in the blank.) I was sitting in a McD’s once when a young woman with several children came in; her braid was down to her knees. An old man sitting near me said to his crony, “You could grab that hair and force her right down on the bed.” This remark could be heard by anyone and everyone sitting in that section!

Should I shave my head because men can’t control their impulses?

And I want to point out that I get several compliments on my hair every week and the vast majority is polite and respectful.
Cleavage and other such issues are subjective—not every man sees cleavage and thinks, oh, she is easy—I am going to make move. Again, guys are going to look (and women do, too), but that doesn’t mean that they have the license to approach ANY woman and make sexual remarks.

Fleuron:
Female sexuality is intimidating, isn’t it?

I suppose in a world that goes crazy over Janet Jackson’s nipple slip this kind of amateur psychoanalysis of the female gender makes sense.

Holy crap….women have breasts. And they are dirty. And if they show more than what’s approved by some guy’s buddies, then she is an insecure, mixed up slut who should expect to be treated badly.


You said it!
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 39
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 2:13:57 PM

To me I find the cleavage shot to be the invite to sexual comments, so if you don't want to hear smut from the guys, clean up the shot.


Personally I believe that if a woman has it, flaunt it. If what makes her good is her Abs, flaunt them, if it's their style, curves, whatever it is. FLAUNT IT.

And as they have every right to flaunt it, they also have every right to reject every idiot that allows their little brain to take over and respond with a sexual comment.
 Zircon_Icon
Joined: 12/11/2011
Msg: 40
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 2:21:57 PM
I concur with the topic of this article!

You have people with class and then there are those who are class-less. Although, I will say there is a fine line between being sassy (sexy) and dirty (vulgar).
 coastalmermaid
Joined: 1/23/2011
Msg: 41
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 2:49:34 PM
I've had countless conversations at POF events with women who state that when they post pictures of themselves doing regular activities such as sports etc. they receive NO messages from guys at all. Yet when those same women post pics of themselves in dresses, bathing suits, or some such more revealing atire they get tons of messages, although the vast majority of the messages are crude class-less attempts that end in them being blocked. You can't win for losing on this site.

The fact is that what motivates both men and women in their choice of pictures to post is their understanding of what is most likely to attract a mate. Men post cheesy shirtless bathroom mirror shots by the thousands, women post cleavage shots, who really cares??? Who are you to judge???

The fact is that from my experience the vast majority of men I've come into contact with on this site treat women on here as if they were free prostitutes...REGARDLESS of their attire on their profiles. Maybe there are women who treat men like free prostitutes too...who knows...
 Zircon_Icon
Joined: 12/11/2011
Msg: 42
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 2:59:21 PM
I am going to have to highly disagree with the previous post. I do not have any provocative pictures up and I must say my inbox has been literally FLOODED since the past 2 weeks, which is when I signed up. You don't have to be vulgar to get a man's attention. Infact, having a class is most appleaing to any decent man.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 43
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 3:52:54 PM

The fact is that from my experience the vast majority of men I've come into contact with on this site treat women on here as if they were free prostitutes...REGARDLESS of their attire on their profiles. Maybe there are women who treat men like free prostitutes too...who knows...


As I said, I have experimented with different types of pictures but the lewd and crude comments come in regardless of the picture.


I am going to have to highly disagree with the previous post. I do not have any provocative pictures up and I must say my inbox has been literally FLOODED since the past 2 weeks, which is when I signed up. You don't have to be vulgar to get a man's attention. Infact, having a class is most appleaing to any decent man.


Of course you have received a plethora of emails--you are an attractive woman.

You don't have to be vulgar to get vulgar emails.

So, who defines "classy" and who defines "decent"?
 ravenhair4u
Joined: 8/13/2011
Msg: 44
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 4:22:21 PM
I don't have any pics like you mentioned on my profile, & I have been addressed as Babe, Sexy, & Scrumptious. These are total strangers & their first contact w/me. I have a word for that, delete.
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 45
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 5:27:17 PM

So, who defines "classy" and who defines "decent"? >~Gwendolyn

When you find out, could you let me know?

When I originally read the OP's post, I assumed his objection to women's breasts were due to some cultural and/or religious reason. To me, a "teddy" is a pair of PJ's much like the type I wear in summer. To me, there were no specifics on how much breasts the women were showing or what exactly they were wearing. To me, some types of clothing do show more of a neckline than others but offer coverage just the same.

I do not have provocative pics and my profile is hidden (except for the folks in the forums) and I still get 1 to 2 messages per month by some horndog wanting something explicit. It doesn't surprise me.

The last time I was spoken to explicitly was at the local Subway in my yoga attire. Again, it doesn't surprise me because I have learnt that some men feel it is their right or priviledge to think that a "hey sexy/beautiful/honey" along with explicit comment(s) directed at a woman may get them the opportunity to be intimate with her.

All I can suggest to the OP is that he not look at those profiles, and stick with the women who dress more conservatively.

 Zircon_Icon
Joined: 12/11/2011
Msg: 46
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 5:55:34 PM
GWEN: Every woman is beautiful in her own way. Men will find beauty in the weirdest things that you couldn't even think of. Like they say, beauty lies in the eye of the holder.

On another note, I am in sync with you on that women do not have to dress provocatively to receive dirty emails. My point is, you do not have to expose either to get a man's attention because all you will be attracting is the wrong kind of men, in other words, "in-decent."
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 47
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 6:54:55 PM
Sylvan wrote:

To me, a "teddy" is a pair of PJ's much like the type I wear in summer. To me, there were no specifics on how much breasts the women were showing or what exactly they were wearing.


The OP didn't define "too much" cleavage. Right now, only one of my pics shows cleavage, but in some others, I am covered to the neck and have long sleeves. But when spring/summer rolls around, my arms will be bare and I will have on tanks and spaghetti straps because of the warm weather. I post new pics on a regular basis, so my clothes reflect the season.

Zircon Icon wrote:

Every woman is beautiful in her own way. Men will find beauty in the weirdest things that you couldn't even think of. Like they say, beauty lies in the eye of the holder.


But ZI, beauty does not define "class"! There are beautiful women whom some would say lack class; there are plain women who would be termed "classy" by those same people.


I am in sync with you on that women do not have to dress provocatively to receive dirty emails. My point is, you do not have to expose either to get a man's attention because all you will be attracting is the wrong kind of men, in other words, "in-decent."


But as you say, women do not have to dress provocatively to receive dirty emails: some men are "indecent" regardless! As I pointed out, I have had indecent remarks online and offline based on my hair. Some men will see what they want to see.

But back to the women who post "provocative" pictures but say on their profiles that they seek long-term relationships: I see nothing contradictory about this. If a woman has been taught, directly or indirectly, that dressing provocatively is how to attract a man, then she will attempt to attract her lifetime partner by trying to be sexy. What she really wants is for THE man to be attracted to her sexually but also to realize what a good wife/partner she would make.

The obese men and women who post old shots or face only shots are doing much the same thing; so are those who post old pictures and lie about their ages. They think that once they "hook" THE right person's attention, that person will overlook the 100 or so pounds of extra weight or the ten years left off the age.

A man once contacted me in a sexually aggressive manner; I told him it wasn't going to happen. He wrote back and said, "If you don't want sex, why do you have those pictures on your profile?" (I don't remember the pictures in question, but I am always willing for my offspring to see my profile, so they couldn't have been too risque.)

I told him, "Oh, I want sex--just not with you."

The women lying on beds in scanty nighties are saying the same thing--perhaps it is calculated, but perhaps they are just naive.

Shrug.
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 48
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:38:08 PM

The OP didn't define "too much" cleavage.


No he didn't. And I wonder how he feels about the guys who post pics of themselves flexing their pecs? Would that be too much cleavage?


But when spring/summer rolls around, my arms will be bare and I will have on tanks and spaghetti straps because of the warm weather.


That's basically what I'd be wearing at the beach since I'm a hop, skip and a jump from one. Oh and guess what? There are many people in many shapes/sizes/colors/ages that are wearing next to nothing as well. Is that immoral too?


A man once contacted me in a sexually aggressive manner; I told him it wasn't going to happen. He wrote back and said, "If you don't want sex, why do you have those pictures on your profile?" ...... I told him, "Oh, I want sex--just not with you."


The pics were only an excuse for him to justify his contacting you, I bet he didn't read your profile either did he?


What she really wants is for THE man to be attracted to her sexually but also to realize what a good wife/partner she would make.


What man wouldn't want a sexy partner (to him)? What woman wouldn't want a sexy partner (to her)? I think it's healthy!

And as far as the scanty lingerie: just replace those frilly and lacy teddies for ones made of polyester and cotton. How sexy would it be then?

 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 49
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:44:09 PM

The pics were only an excuse for him to justify his contacting you, I bet he didn't read your profile either did he?


Nope! I change my profile often and at one time, it said something such as, "My pictures are to draw you in, but if you really want to get and keep my attention, read my profile and respond to it." When I asked guys if they read what I wrote, they often answered, "No, it's too long." A few guys even wrote to tell me that my profile was too long and most men wouldn't bother to read it. Duh! That is the purpose! The duds are easier to weed out.


And I wonder how he feels about the guys who post pics of themselves flexing their pecs? Would that be too much cleavage?


Male provocateurs, I would suppose!


And as far as the scanty lingerie: just replace those frilly and lacy teddies for ones made of polyester and cotton. How sexy would it be then?


I don't have a TV, but I sometimes watch TV shows on Netflix. I just finished watching an episode of Bones wherein the main character was showing quite a bit of cleavage. I bet none of the men posting in this forum would classify her as a "ho" or say that she is loose because of it.

It's a matter of degree--and perhaps perceived accessibility.
 AnEvilgenius
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 50
Contradictions
Posted: 12/26/2011 8:49:49 PM
The most I'm getting from this is some guys find it to be acceptable to disrespect people if they can find the right justification.

So I think the last thing someone that posts crap like this should be doing is giving out advice on how to find a "good guy" to the same people they are insulting.
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