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 FaerieFae18
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 68
ContradictionsPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
If we are just simply talking about cleavage or women showing too much or hell I kind of already forgot, I would like to say that I am very ample in the chest area and regardless of what I wear I can't hide them. (FYI my bountiful bosom friends, minimizer bras are a load of crap!!!) If I went on a date with a guy he is going to notice them. I wear what I like be it a plain jane t-shirt or something more alluring "the girls" aren't going anywhere. So I don't know.
 TraveliciousGuy
Joined: 9/17/2011
Msg: 69
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 11:39:00 AM
Contradictions in humans?

Who would have believed it?

Sad and frustrating, but true.
 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 70
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 11:54:26 AM
This subject has been done to death and I'm not on here as much as I was.

I personally don't see everyday cleavage as a problem. I also don't see cleavage as a invite for me (or any man) to respond sexually in a email. It is true that some men are douches and dogs, not all of us are.

Personally I'm a little old fashioned, I like to have my imagination run wild on what the "girls" look like. A little cleavage is nice don't get me wrong, not complaining one bit, but I want to imagine.

Men and women are going to look, I don't know how many times I've busted a woman staring at my crotch. I've had a few lewd comments. I've got a pair of pants that are my favorite pair, the only problem is they are getting age on them and the zipper doesn't stay up, esp after I get up from sitting down. So one day I was walking toward a woman I know and she hugged me a whispered "xyz (Examine your zipper)"....I was embarrassed as we all are due to this and she laughed and said "I guess you're too big for your britches". I blushed a little bit because of the nature of the comment. But it is funny and I tell the story a lot...It was meant to be funny and I took it as funny. I could've went to the mgr at my job because it could've been considered sexual snide. But I didn't...but could have.

It's like the old saying "It's alright to go shopping just don't take everything home" for every woman that complains about every man staring and ogling her cleavage there is another woman that wants the man to look. She's proud of what she's got and is going to flaunt it.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 71
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 12:04:13 PM

Newton's Third law states: The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear.


There are variables, especially those dealing with HUMAN responses to stimuli.

By your logic, on seeing cleavage, a man is justified in grabbing a woman’s breasts because it is a reaction to an action. But in reality, while he is free to want to grab her, acting on his desire is not acceptable.

There is a consequence for every act; but we have laws that forbid a responder from playing out ANY “reaction” that he/she might have. I am not a fan of the Hebrew Scriptures, but this is why the law "an eye for an eye" was put into place: the punishment should not exceed the crime, so a person who runs a stop sign shouldn't get the death penalty. By the same token, reactions to certain stimuli are not acceptable. Even if a woman were walking (illegally) naked down a street, it is still against the law to rape her.

It is against the law for one person to kill another because the second person is annoying.

It is legal for a woman to show cleavage, but it is illegal for a man to touch without permission. It is illegal for him to badger or coerce her.


Men will choose whatever expression of sexuality is natural to them.


And if that choice is against the law, they will reap the consequences of their actions.


HAHAHA sounds like you would like to get dirty messages.


Your reaction to her action is out of proportion--definitely NOT equal.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 72
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 12:36:01 PM
Gwen:
Geez, now we scandalous women are fighting over who gets to answer the "beach" comment. (Grin.)


We scandalous women need to stick together.

s.nixon89:
…its just stereotypes of women...putting up revealing pictures may mean they want to show there adventurous or not afraid to be flirty or dirty and they can but doesnt give everyone the right to send sexual comments...


Exactly. Men know that women are sexual. Men should also know how to approach a woman. Insisting that all women behave certain ways to suit hypocritical male ideals or accept being insulted by them is ridiculous. I’m doubting males anticipate only non-sexual relationships with women.

Women can only be sexual when it’s convenient or appropriate?


it's pointless to argue personal stuff.


That’s because I refuted your point. You brought it up… while deflecting my original question…which you’ve unintentionally answered, btw.


Point being if you flaunt something, expect feedback and this whole thread is about contradictory reactions.


I don’t expect disrespectful remarks because you tell me to. You don’t speak for your gender, apparently someone needs to tell you that.

Males who are intimidated by women approach them (if they can muster up the guts to approach them at all) with disrespect…much like the six year old boy who pulls pigtails.

Gwen:
Your reaction to her action is out of proportion--definitely NOT equal.


Desperately juvenile, too.
 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 73
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 1:25:36 PM

It is legal for a woman to show cleavage, but it is illegal for a man to touch without permission


The law is not gender specific. This goes both ways, I saw where a lenscrafters was sued because a man reported a coworker that repeatedly grabbed his crotch and made sexual advances and lenscrafters did nothing about it, obviously since it was coming from a man, men are suppose to enjoy these things right?

I had this happen to me at work as well, I told the mgr and she laughed it off. So I had to go to the District Supervisor about it. The woman that grabbed my crotch got fired. I was happy since they did something about it...if they had not I was prepared to sue the company as well. There is a time and place for everything and work is not the place for stuff like that. From either gender.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 74
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 3:12:32 PM
Fleuron:
Women can only be sexual when it’s convenient or appropriate?


It goes back to the madonna/whore "thing." Some men still want Eve in public but Lilith in the bedroom.

Good Catch:
The law is not gender specific. This goes both ways,


Of course laws are not gender specific, but this thread is about women showing their goods and men having the "right" to disrespect them.

I saw a profile this morning where the primary photo is of a shirtless, well muscled man. Most of his photos emphasize his muscular physique. In his profile blurb, he protests that women send him "nasty emails" accusing him of seeking only "Barbie dolls" and that he is "hung up" on himself. He sounds like a nice guy, and women are prejudging him BASED ON HIS PICTURES, but I have to admit, it "looks" as if his muscles are his most attractive assets. If he posts such pictures, isn't it hypocritical of him to be upset because women send nasty emails to him? Especially if he has received so many that he discusses it on his profile? Should we women not think that he is inviting sexual comments by baring his chest?

Or is this a different case because he is male and men can show their chests in public with no sexual connotations attached?
 coastalmermaid
Joined: 1/23/2011
Msg: 75
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 5:34:47 PM
Apparently in the case of POF it's ok for guys by the thousands to show pics of themselves in nothing but shorts, towels, boxers etc. and not expect sexual comments from women and NOT ok for women to post similar revealling shots of themselves and not expect to be disrespected. Seems like all too often the guys on here are complaining that women are misrepresenting themselves and not being honest in their pics and then complain when they can see... Talk about CONTRADICTIONS...."can't win for losing" is quite correct.

Yes before women were declared, "persons under the law" by the British courts not so many years ago...and for many years afterwards...the attire and behavior of women was blamed by men as perfect justification for rape or abuse of any kind. The kind of thinking that the OP is representing is nothing but a watered down version of the remnants of this belief.

How we CHOOSE to RE-act to certain stimuli is a measure of our values and belief systems and our understanding and acceptance of societal norms. Men who send out disrespectful messages to women truly believe this behavior is acceptable to women and a viable means to an end. These beliefs would in no way be compatable with my own. I do love the self-eliminating factor.
 BabyFiireFlii
Joined: 11/5/2011
Msg: 76
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 5:48:16 PM
Kind of like when a guy says he's athletic but his pictures show some fat dude. We've all got our weeding to do
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 77
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 6:01:26 PM

Well, that will depend, Gwen. Did his profile also state that he was "seeking puritanical woman, head-to-toe dress a requisite, those with frumpy attire need not apply"?


Nope, Sweetness, he didn't. :)

This thread started as a complaint about women who wore skimpy clothing but complained when men wrote inappropriate emails to them, but it has gone beyond that! It turned into "any" woman who shows cleavage is asking to be disrespected thread by some. By their reckoning, that the guy shows flesh would be enough to assume that he is a loose man.
 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 78
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 7:58:15 PM

I saw a profile this morning where the primary photo is of a shirtless, well muscled man. Most of his photos emphasize his muscular physique. In his profile blurb, he protests that women send him "nasty emails" accusing him of seeking only "Barbie dolls" and that he is "hung up" on himself. He sounds like a nice guy, and women are prejudging him BASED ON HIS PICTURES, but I have to admit, it "looks" as if his muscles are his most attractive assets. If he posts such pictures, isn't it hypocritical of him to be upset because women send nasty emails to him? Especially if he has received so many that he discusses it on his profile? Should we women not think that he is inviting sexual comments by baring his chest?


People are stereotyped all the time. Nice guys, muscle guys, short guys, nerds, jocks, rednecks...(there are plenty of stereotypes for women too but since this post is concentrating on the guys I will too) The only absolute with all these stereotypes and more is that there is always a "diamond in the rough", more often than not the majority of men that are stereotyped are unfairly done so (as are women too but like I said concentrating on guys here).

Being a nerd I often had a dislike for jocks growing up since I was picked on by them. I've said some very biased remarks toward jocks over the years too. I'm not saying I haven't because I have. I've been known to stereotype just like anyone else esp when my butt was hurt. In saying that, I believe the women that ASSumed the guy in question is the way he is based on a pic is no better (nor worse) than a man whom ASSumes that a woman that shows cleavage is a slut.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 79
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 8:11:26 PM
much like the six year old boy who pulls pigtails.


*cough*

Uhoh



Desperately juvenile, too.


I know you are, but what am I.

guys by the thousands to show pics of themselves in nothing but shorts, towels, boxers etc.


If I go with the figleaf; ya think I'll be a favorite?
 Alpha78
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 80
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 8:24:15 PM
OP do you also sort your women by "she has sex with me before # ___ date she is not marrying material" and "she does anything more than missionary position, she is a slut" ?
I knew a guy like that once; every girl he dated was a slut one way or the either. Ended up marrying one that slept with half of the town and there were even wild videos circling around - secret that everyone else knew BUT him.
Gotta love it.
 Alpha78
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 81
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 8:26:21 PM

Newton's Third law states: The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear.

By this logic, no men then should object if my action to that kind of reaction is my fist vs. his nose, no?
 earthboundangel67
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 82
Contradictions
Posted: 12/29/2011 9:01:26 PM
sorry, couldnt resist, and I apologize in advance if my pics offend you OP....people are full of contradictions....whether they realize it or not. Part of being human, and human nature. and in all of us! My cleavage shot was taken at a lake with my family .... I was not posed or provocative....it simply shows me enjoying life fully & having a great time. I generally hate my pics being taken, but I was having a great time and it is one of the few pics I actually like of me.

This is plenty of fish....some of us like to have those water shots to play it up. Its not meant to offend or suggest anything . Simply a picture. If you or others read something into it, so be it, it happens no matter what. As others have commented, people will say & respond however they choose. Block & delete are our friends on here. Most people like a little attention, otherwise why be on this site....I say live & let live...simply pass on by those profiles & pics that you are not interested in. To each their own!
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 83
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 6:02:48 AM

sorry, couldnt resist, and I apologize in advance if my pics offend you OP.


But you shouldn't apologize!

Your shot is a perfect example of what some women on this thread have been saying: it is not intended to be provocative. You are wearing a piece of "apparel" in public that you are not "ashamed" to wear in the company of your family--why should you be embarrassed to put it on your profile or feel that you have to apologize to a prude?

(I am not saying that you are embarrassed--just saying that you shouldn't be.)
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 84
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 6:50:42 AM

It is amusing: I posted my "Breast" monologue a couple of days ago and my emails have gone up significantly.


I just read it, very good. It must be your mention of "nipples" but they may have enjoyed your rendition of "The Life and Times of the Gwen's Bra's"....lol.


You are wearing a piece of "apparel" in public that you are not "ashamed" to wear in the company of your family--why should you be embarrassed to put it on your profile or feel that you have to apologize to a prude?


Because the OP has stated that women that show an unspecified amount of cleavage must be looking for sexual contacts.

Or that us women should be embarassed of our bodies and hide them as much as possible with turtlenecks and baggy slacks....
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 85
view profile
History
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 8:45:36 AM

Gwendolyn:
I saw a profile this morning where the primary photo is of a shirtless, well muscled man. Most of his photos emphasize his muscular physique. In his profile blurb, he protests that women send him "nasty emails" accusing him of seeking only "Barbie dolls" and that he is "hung up" on himself. He sounds like a nice guy, and women are prejudging him BASED ON HIS PICTURES, but I have to admit, it "looks" as if his muscles are his most attractive assets. If he posts such pictures, isn't it hypocritical of him to be upset because women send nasty emails to him? Should we women not think that he is inviting sexual comments by baring his chest?

Or is this a different case because he is male and men can show their chests in public with no sexual connotations attached?

Gwendolyn, you posted this exact same paragraph in two messages, number 77 and number 85. You must have really been impressed with the guy’s physique, yes? (smile)

It so happens I saw his post, and looked at his profile. The man in question is clearly looking for sexual encounters, and he was making it clear in his profile that he was not interested only in women who were “Barbie dolls”. He explicitly stated that he was open to older women. If he excited you so much that you had to mention him twice, maybe you should message him?

And in message 82, you state:

Your reaction to her action is out of proportion--definitely NOT equal.


I don’t think it was supposed to be equal, it was meant to be funny. And I rather thought it was.
 Alpha78
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 86
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 8:49:48 AM
If I go with the figleaf; ya think I'll be a favorite?

You'd be my favorite, no doubt!

Only, is fig leaf really necessary, or would birch leaf do???
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 87
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 10:02:19 AM
Only, is fig leaf really necessary, or would birch leaf do???




Few blades of lawn grass should do the trick

 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 88
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 1:27:05 PM

I just read it, very good. It must be your mention of "nipples" but they may have enjoyed your rendition of "The Life and Times of the Gwen's Bra's"....lol.


I just changed my profile to a short literary critique of a poem--we'll see how that affects my emails.


Because the OP has stated that women that show an unspecified amount of cleavage must be looking for sexual contacts.


I wonder if he opposes women breastfeeding in public.


Gwendolyn, you posted this exact same paragraph in two messages, number 77 and number 85. You must have really been impressed with the guy’s physique, yes? (smile)


It was a senior moment--I was posting it in a reply and POF went haywire. I copied and pasted my post into a document. When I reposted that part later, I didn't realize that the first one had actually posted.


It so happens I saw his post, and looked at his profile. The man in question is clearly looking for sexual encounters, and he was making it clear in his profile that he was not interested only in women who were “Barbie dolls”. He explicitly stated that he was open to older women. If he excited you so much that you had to mention him twice, maybe you should message him?


You didn't see the same guy and I have no clue to whom you refer. This man is in a nearby town (in Missouri) and I have never seen him post in the forums. He makes no references to older women (he is in his 40s, I think) and he is not trolling for sex.

Be careful about assumptions--they can get you into trouble.


I don’t think it was supposed to be equal, it was meant to be funny. And I rather thought it was.


Some people find potty humor funny, too.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 89
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 3:24:42 PM

but I fail to see how a public display of cleavage could be interpreted as a personal invitation for sexual commentary.


Same here--I posted that I expect men to look and that doesn't bother me, but they shouldn't make remarks. According to at least one poster, the sexual remarks are valid due to Newton's third law.


Totally off topic here - but isn’t that backwards? As in Eve had children (ie sex) and Lilith didn’t?


Despite Eve's indiscretion with the fruit, she is a model of a chaste wife. Lilith abandoned Adam because he refused to have sex with her on top. She took up with a demon and bore hundreds of demon children known as "Lilin"--this is according to the Midrash and the Alphabet of ben Sira. Later, she was made into a succubus and stole men's semen as they slept. She is the epitome of the carnal, sexual woman that men want in the bedroom but not in the living room or kitchen.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 90
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 4:59:52 PM
That’s because I refuted your point.


You did no such thing. You just brought it down to personal level as in "I got or never got" that is pointless because this topic isn't about you. Some women enjoy dirty messages from men while others don't. It's a pretty simple concept to grasp. Action, reaction. It is a choice to put up pictures that may warrant reaction and it is a choice to react. What is justified and not isn't for anyone to judge unless it is against the law. Men and women are different, people are different and so are the reactions.


I don’t expect disrespectful remarks because you tell me to. You don’t speak for your gender, apparently someone needs to tell you that.

I really do not wish to educate you in anyway on what you should expect. Females that view expression of male sexuality as disrespectful or act on what other people tell them have larger issues. I speak objectively and from the point of logic, not emotion. Since I am a man, my point of view is from a male perspective.
Furthermore I do not appreciate your tone. You have failed to stay objective or carry a debate in respectful manner.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 91
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 5:20:39 PM
You, Msg. 35:
Blunt misandric reaction by some women to a known fact is disturbing.


The supposed “known fact” quoted, as stated by the OP:


To me I find the cleavage shot to be the invite to sexual comments, so if you don't want to hear smut from the guys, clean up the shot.


That is an “opinion.”

You, Msg. 60:
HAHA! Amusing. Treated badly? You face male sexuality in dirty messages. Intimidating isn't? Tat for Tit as it ware


You, Msg. 60:
oh yes indeed! I'm the regular old school manipulator. Witness my success rate! /sarcasm


You, Msg. 78:
HAHAHA sounds like you would like to get dirty messages.


You were saying, Mr. Maturely Objective?

Don’t worry…I’m done with you.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 92
Contradictions
Posted: 12/30/2011 6:00:37 PM

Since I am a man, my point of view is from a male perspective.
Furthermore I do not appreciate your tone. You have failed to stay objective or carry a debate in respectful manner.


I find this ironic and contradictory coming from a man who tells a woman, post 78:
HAHAHA sounds like you would like to get dirty messages.


You speak from YOUR perspective; you cannot claim to speak for all males. This is evidenced by the men who do not agree with you.

Your tone is consistently derogatory. The first post you made on this thread, post 35:


Blunt misandric reaction by some women to a known fact is disturbing.


set the tone for the remainder of your comments. You went on to backpedal to try to cover your blunder in post 40:


Not exactly misandric, pore choice of words on my part. I'm troubled over sexist site policy on bikini shots vs chest shots.


Which belies this comment:


I speak objectively and from the point of logic, not emotion.


If you hadn’t been “upset” over sexist policies, then your emotions wouldn’t have gotten in the way of your “logic” in seeing that the posts you pointed our were NOT misandrist. It looks as if your clear judgment was clouded by your distress. Perhaps your distress over issues in general cloud your reason until you only think that you are being logical and rational.



What is justified and not isn't for anyone to judge unless it is against the law.


You never addressed the "law" until I posted about using Newton’s third law as a justification for rape or any other reaction to an action. In addition, you justify your opinions and judge the error in the thinking of others. In addition, even outside of legalities, there are social and cultural mores that come into play.

I won’t quote your rude and disrespectful remarks from other threads here, but to disparage others for either disrespect or a lack of logic is nothing but hypocrisy or severe shortsightedness.
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