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 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 26
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?Page 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Well if the mayans are right then the hibees only have one more chance to win the scottish cup. 1902 was our last time.

Anyway its hogmanay and 2011 is nearly gone.

All the best to everyone (even the ones I don't like) have a good new year when the bells come.

Toodle pip

Vlad mcdracul
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 27
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 12:06:52 PM
Here we go again with the end of the world crap .Anyone remember the Hailey bop and those cult members drinking the cool aid because (according to them,they would all take off on a spaceship?)

Now some human sacrifices those were the days! And have a happy new year Vlad.
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 28
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 3:07:19 PM

Here we go again with the end of the world crap .Anyone remember the Hailey bop and those cult members drinking the cool aid because (according to them,they would all take off on a spaceship?)


The Heaven's Gate cult hadn't tracked Hale Bop from 6,247 years previous..

Just sayin'..
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 29
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 3:48:01 PM
And ,on top of all of us "present dwellers" counting on things to continue as they are.....And pooh-poohing the visions of those who have dearly departed....

The Mayans were only one such ancient culture that predicted the end. I think the Christian Bible has it's predictions as do others. It's weird, in a way that so many pre existing peoples had such visions of future apocalyptic endings.These people all lived in different geographical locations worldwide. But, many seem to have had similar "visions" of future occurences. Namely, our soon to be future

And, according to them, it's not going to be a "delightful, light hearted romp in a rosebed of delights". ....

But, I guess if you're alive on 12/22/12 you'll know,,,,.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 30
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 3:49:08 PM
Bbc.co./hogmanay I think.

Get the live bells show. Tonnes of fireworkd
S.

Happy new year viper
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 31
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 4:40:37 PM

And ,on top of all of us "present dwellers" counting on things to continue as they are.....And pooh-poohing the visions of those who have dearly departed....

The Mayans were only one such ancient culture that predicted the end. I think the Christian Bible has it's predictions as do others. It's weird, in a way that so many pre existing peoples had such visions of future apocalyptic endings.These people all lived in different geographical locations worldwide. But, many seem to have had similar "visions" of future occurences. Namely, our soon to be future

And, according to them, it's not going to be a "delightful, light hearted romp in a rosebed of delights". ....


This is the type of incorrect information that gets spread when people are not cognizant of their mythic facts.

1. There is no definitive proof that the Mayans had a "doomsday" prophecy. If they have, I haven't seen any reputable scholars write about it. If I am wrong, I would love to see the translated documents.

2. The original Christians thought that Armageddon was imminent. The Christian Scriptures even say that some hearing the words (or reading the words) of the speaker/writer would be alive to witness the second coming of Christ. When it didn't happen, Christians backpedaled and said it would still come. It's been 2,000 years!

3. The Greeks, from whom the Christians stole the ideas of heaven and hell, had no doomsday myth. They did have a myth about the Five Ages of Man (which have already happened), but no apocalypse.

4. The Egyptians have no such myth.

5. The Sumerians have no such myth--the tales of Nibiru are not from a reliable translator.

6. One of the best known apocalyptic myths is that of Ragnarok from the Norse. In it, there is a war between the Aesir and Vanir and everyone is killed--the good and the bad. In some versions, Baldur returns from Niflheim to reestablish Asgard, etc., but I think that might have been a later Christian addition--it is hard to tell since the Norse (and Celtic) myth that we have was recorded by Christians.

There are dozens of mythoi in the world--but no one buys into the gods and goddesses of those myths, so why buy into the tales of the final battle? It makes no sense. The Aztecs believed that if they did not sacrifice people everyday, the universe would cease to be. People will flock to an imagined tale of the Maya, but again, I don't see anyone trying to save the world by daily sacrifices.

By the way, if you think it is "weird" that some cultures share doomsday myths, research the dying and resurrected god myth. The only mythoi that I have read that doesn't have one are Judaism and Islam. Shared myths are nothing new nor surprising to people who are well versed in myth.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 32
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 4:56:39 PM
Gwen 2010, thank you for confirming my post stating people from different cultures have all had predictions, premonitions or some inkling of a potential future apocalyptic end to the world as we know it.

I just posted some info. I heard on the History Channel about ancient aliens and future predictions about something the Mayans predicted MAY happen on 12/21/12/.I don't really know if this info/ is right, wrong or indifferent. As for the validity, accuracy or any truth regarding anything I perviously posted.... Well, this is a opinion forum and I just posted my opinion on info. I saw on a television program. I did'nt check to see if it was accurate, or true.

But, it does make for good conversation, and a good story. Fact or fiction....Beats me.

Speaking of which, where did you get your facts? Just curious because you seem to know a lot about this and I think it is interesting.And as up in the air as speculating on future events.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 33
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 5:10:49 PM
Well the world is going to end that's a given rather its 100 years from now or 5 billion years from now when the sun dies it's going to end, but no man can predict the exact date of the end of the world. Many people tried and they all failed. People can't forsee the future anymore then you can travel into the future, because the future hasn't been written yet. Every action that takes place now alters the course of what will take place after. So it's next to impossible that any mortal being can predict something in such a massive scale to the exact date of something like the end of the worldwhen the future isn't written yet. The only thing man can closely predict to something being accurate is the weather and even that isn't always right.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 34
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 6:17:28 PM

Gwen 2010, thank you for confirming my post stating people from different cultures have all had predictions, premonitions or some inkling of a potential future apocalyptic end to the world as we know it.


But I was pointing out that NOT all cultures have a doomsday prediction!


I just posted some info. I heard on the History Channel about ancient aliens and future predictions about something the Mayans predicted MAY happen on 12/21/12/.I don't really know if this info/ is right, wrong or indifferent. As for the validity, accuracy or any truth regarding anything I perviously posted.... Well, this is a opinion forum and I just posted my opinion on info. I saw on a television program. I did'nt check to see if it was accurate, or true.


I realize that this an opinion forum, but we base our opinions on information--if the information is incorrect, then our opinions are incorrect.


But, it does make for good conversation, and a good story. Fact or fiction....Beats me.


I agree, but we should still distinguish between probability, fact, and fiction.


Speaking of which, where did you get your facts? Just curious because you seem to know a lot about this and I think it is interesting.And as up in the air as speculating on future events.


I have spent years (well over a decade seriously so) studying myth. I teach two types of mythology courses on a college level, only one of which applies to this topic. My information comes from the myths--the Popol Vuh (Mayan), The Prose and Poetic Eddas (Norse), the Coffin Texts, the Pyramid Texts, The Coming Forth by Day (aka The Book of the Dead) (Egyptian)--, and Sumerian myths in general and the myths of other cultures. For Greek myths, Hesiod is a good source as well as playwrights of the period. I also read commentary by experts such as Joseph Campbell and Robert Graves.

In order to understand myths, we need to know a bit about the cultures that believed in them. For example, the Egyptians didn't think that their civilization and religion would collapse, so why have a apocalyptic myth?

If the Maya were THAT good at predicting the future, they would have seen the demise of their own civilization!
 jojoaus
Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 35
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 6:37:30 PM
The only thing that I KNOW will happen on 21st Dec 2012 is my mum will turn 79 (as long as she and my 82 year old dad haven't bickered each other to death before then). Also, seeing as we in Aus are up to 22 hours ahead of some folks... do we die first? Or will it happen when everyone has experienced the 21st, in which case it will be the 22nd here. Will that infuriate Americans who will, by date at least, have to die first??? So much to ponder!
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 36
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 6:41:46 PM

Also, seeing as we in Aus are up to 22 hours ahead of some folks... do we die first? Or will it happen when everyone has experienced the 21st, in which case it will be the 22nd here. Will that infuriate Americans who will, by date at least, have to die first???


"It's got nothing to do with time zones, it has to do with a celestial alignment of the planets.."-- Father Mathias, End of Days..
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 37
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 6:43:52 PM
Gwendolyn, I'd say if any of the Ancients were at all adept at predicting the future then their futures would be insured....

If they had a proven track record some profit motivated entrepreneur would find a way to add water to their withered remains, reconstitute their essences, and have the high priests calculating the following days stock closings.

And, I can distinguish between probability, fact and fiction. What I wonder is where the Ancients derived the mythical charachters that they wrote about in their stories?

Were they having mass hallucinations? Or, are myths just that. Myths, stories from folks that existed eons ago. Did'nt have TV, Radio, Or internet. So, they made up mythical gods, creatures that were hybrids, Folks with extraordinary abilities and that did extraordinary things.Just for kicks I guess they did this.

Or, did these things exist? Were there beings with the power of gods? And, if so are the tales of Gods and Myths simply the documentation of said events and beings? Written with the unserstanding of ancient people with stone age technology. And
if this is true what were they seeing that they were basing there tales on.

Questions seem to outnumber the answers. On 12/22/12 we'll find out, I reckon....Or, our present could be tomorrows myth if we tell a good enough story.

 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 38
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 7:14:03 PM

What I wonder is where the Ancients derived the mythical charachters that they wrote about in their stories?

Were they having mass hallucinations? Or, are myths just that. Myths, stories from folks that existed eons ago. Did'nt have TV, Radio, Or internet. So, they made up mythical gods, creatures that were hybrids, Folks with extraordinary abilities and that did extraordinary things.Just for kicks I guess they did this.

Or, did these things exist? Were there beings with the power of gods? And, if so are the tales of Gods and Myths simply the documentation of said events and beings? Written with the unserstanding of ancient people with stone age technology. And
if this is true what were they seeing that they were basing there tales on.


Some myths are historical allegory, based on actual events that are told through myths. for example, the marriage of Hera and Zeus is an allegory for the Aryans conquering the Pelasgians--the conquerors "married" their gods to the goddesses of the conquered. The Barbers claim that all myths are based on actual events; hence, Native American myths about the "old man of the mountain" throwing rocks was a volcanic eruption.

Other myths explain natural phenomena that was explained as well as the ancients could with limited or no technology--weather myths, changing of the season, etc.

Campbell gives four types of myth and their functions. If you are really interested, do some reading.

Myths didn't spring up over night: they are compilations filed over long periods of history, and oral history until (of course) writing was invented. Have you ever played the game "gossip" or "telephone"? "Things" get garbled in the retelling.

No, they didn't make up deities and myths "for kicks." Yup, they were for entertainment, but they were much more, as well. They embodied the morals and ethics of the peoples. They contained lessons and examples of how to live.

And the LEAST likely explanation (so unlikely as to be nonexistent) are that myths are records of aliens.

Our ancestors anthropomorphized their gods because they respected and wanted to emulate those animals. As society progressed, there were fewer and fewer deities and creatures that were part human/animal. Egypt had a bunch, but by the time of the Greeks, there was a disassociation between humans and animals and a larger emphasis on logic and "humanity." Gods such as Pan were holdovers from earlier times but he never got the "girl." Creatures such as centaurs (with a few exceptions) lacked reason and logic.


and have the high priests calculating the following days stock closings.


The high priest, or priestesses would have controlled the stock exchange. Governments were very often theocracies--such as in Egypt. Since documented history began, religions has been a way to control the people in a culture.

Most myths do not deal with the future: they deal with the past. Myths are "histories"--yes, there are some predictions, but they are rarely for 2,000 years in the future. In fact, I can't think of any--there was no specific time for Ragnarok, but its coming would be quite clear.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 39
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 7:15:46 PM

Also, seeing as we in Aus are up to 22 hours ahead of some folks... do we die first?


Well, since the whole thing seems to be based on a non-existent Mayan prediction, I'd say it must be scheduled for Mayan time, which oughta be somewhere near Eastern Standard time here in the U.S.. For those who want to credit the Mayans, did they state a time, or just a day?

Sad thing is, there ARE people who seriously buy into this stuff. The church that's closest to the raft company I work for bought into BOTH of this past year's doomsday predictions, including admonitions on their sign in front of the church and a full gathering of their congregation at midnight when the days arrived.

Amazing what some folks will believe.

But I don't know if it's any different than the modern day myths too many of us buy into about whichever politicians we don't like, whichever science we don't like (evolution, climate change, etc...) and so on.

For such a supposedly intelligent species we sure can be gullible.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 40
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 7:20:08 PM

A Jehova's Witness came to the door today wanting to talk about this topic. Funny how some religious folks are encouraged by the idea of the world ending. Bizarre!!! Their religion didn't even know Mayans existed when their book was written.


The Jehovah's Witnesses are an offshoot of mainstream Christianity. Their end-of-the-world scenario is lifted from Christian Scriptures.

I have never researched why Christianity has such a strong doomsday myth, but I can theorize why: early Christians knew that they weren't going to physically overthrow the Romans. To bring about a "new world order" and set things "right," the old world would have to end and a new one would have to begin; thus, there would be a new heaven and a new earth.

Of course Christians want the world to end: it means that they all get to heaven and those who don't accept Jesus as savior are swept into hell. It is the ultimate "Neener, neener--I TOLD you so" scenario.
 MondoVman
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 41
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 7:54:27 PM


3. The Greeks, from whom the Christians stole the ideas of heaven and hell,


I have spent years (well over a decade seriously so) studying myth.


Oh my. Gotta call BS on a claim that the all mighty Christians, let alone any real person or persons, can steal an idea. Such tripe, disrespectful outlook and discourse you present. Thank you for that.

Virtually all commonly-read individuals, not just the well-read, learn prior to adulthood that the correct word when claiming incorporation of an idea is "borrow"; yet your post-adolescent years of study have failed to instill even a modicum of respectful communication skills and habit.


Of course (all) Christians want

... Tsk. Find an accredited school, one willing to learn ya the actual meanings of "all" and "some", since your writing evinces a markedly depraved education.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 42
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 8:32:25 PM

Oh my. Gotta call BS on a claim that the all mighty Christians, let alone any real person or persons, can steal an idea. Such tripe, disrespectful outlook and discourse you present. Thank you for that.

Virtually all commonly-read individuals, not just the well-read, learn prior to adulthood that the correct word when claiming incorporation of an idea is "borrow"; yet your post-adolescent years of study have failed to instill even a modicum of respectful communication skills and habit.


The difference between assimilating aspects of one faith into another and "stealing" aspects is when the new religion claims originality.

For example, the god Serapis was a Greek "invention" purposely created as a syncretic deity incorporating aspects of Egyptian gods and Greek gods. Polytheistic religions very often acknowledged that their gods were the same gods--just different names. One Hindu myth says that when people worship this god or that god, they are really worshiping Brahma.

Christianity--and Judaism--both claim that myths taken from prior religions are theirs, exclusively. Few Jews and Christians acknowledge that the myths of floods in Egypt and Sumeria/Babylon predate Noah and that Noah's ark was Utnapishtim's ark before there were Jews.

Similarly, the concept of the Christian heaven is based on the Greek Elysian Fields and Isles of the Blessed; hell is based on Tartarus. Later, Christians appropriated "hell" from the Norse goddess "Hel," goddess of the Norse underworld. Platonism strongly affected Christian "myth" and Greeks were some of the first to convert; in fact, heaven is also based on Plato's idea that perfection existed in the universe.

When mainstream and majority Christianity says, "Oh, yeah, well, we borrowed heaven and hell from the Greeks instead of thinking it up ourselves," I will be glad to change my "stolen" designation.

And not only did Christians “steal” the myths, they appropriated the holy days of pagan faiths. In England, they couldn’t eradicate the Celtic goddess Bridget, so they made her a Catholic saint. They built churches over pagan temples and incorporated pagan images in their iconography—yet they claimed it was ALL original! Notice that I say “claimed” here because in recent decades, even Christians have to admit that “facts” just don’t jibe with how these holidays, etc., were perceived for centuries.

When Christians stop annoying me in public places, coming to my home to annoy me, stop trying to influence legislation that takes away my rights, and retract statements that I should be executed, stripped of my citizenship, and that my religion should not be protected by the Constitution, I will be happy to show more respect.


Of course (all) [your emendation] Christians want


... Tsk. Find an accredited school, one willing to learn ya the actual meanings of "all" and "some", since your writing evinces a markedly depraved education.


Do you always resort to ad hominem attacks? That is very Christian of you. Stick to the issues and forget personalities. It is poor form to insult the person rather than the argument. I did not insult anyone personally, and if Yahweh wants to inform me of my disrespect and errors, I will be glad to hear him out. You, however, I will not address again in these forums; people who resort to personal insults instead of discussing the issues cloud the purpose of debate and discussion.

By the way, editorial additions are indicated in square brackets, [all], and not parentheses (all). I am surprised that an erudite person such as yourself did not know this.
 MondoVman
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 43
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 10:08:50 PM

The (tomato) difference between assimilating aspects of one faith into another and "stealing" aspects is when the new religion claims originality (dubiously concluded).

No. By "stealing" you've failed at admitting you should have originally quoted the word "stole". Attempting to disown your choice of conveying the ordinary meaning of "stole" by writing "stealing" in quotes is sad.

Here again you use words ("exclusively" and "appropriated") in an attempt at further spinning the lie:

Christianity--and Judaism--both claim that myths taken from prior religions are theirs, exclusively. ...
Later, Christians appropriated "hell" from the Norse goddess

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/appropriate:
1, to take exclusive possession of -- Nope, not with respect to heaven and hell
2. to set apart for or assign to a particular purpose or use -- Not germaine to your vile thrust
3. to take or make use of without authority or right -- Simply can't happen wrt h&h


Christianity cannot take possession of heaven and hell due to the impossibility of doing so.
Christianity has not made use of heaven and hell without authority since none authority exists.


I will be happy

^doubtful as well as dubious
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 44
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End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 12/31/2011 10:31:20 PM
For those keeping score at home, that would be Gwendolyn 1, MondoVman O. At least that's the view from here...
 Akizzej
Joined: 5/1/2009
Msg: 45
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/1/2012 12:54:57 AM
I'm root'n for Gwendolyn... although I know that has an entirely different meaning down here...
and since my birth control is due for replacement in 2013, that means I am plenty good for lotsa root'n... and consider'n it hasn't been considered for nearly 3 years now, I'd better make the most of 2012.... or I'll be mighty pi$$ed about $150 and a co-pay of $100 for one year of contraceptive.
 northwildwoodnjman1969
Joined: 9/24/2011
Msg: 46
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/1/2012 5:22:19 AM
Maybe just sit outside and watch it happen.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 47
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/1/2012 6:39:48 AM
Thanks, WV and Akizzej!

I THINK other posters intend to write comments of "value," but when I read them, all I can make of what they say is "Blah, blah, blah." Maybe I need new glasses.

When they can't logically debate the issue, they illogically attack the poster. Shrug.

Remember when people got freaked out about 2000? And THEY used "science" to validate their blind fear. People believe in doomsday scenarios because they are afraid. When astronomers tell us that Apophis is about to hit the earth--be afraid. But personally, I would rather not know. Let me be foolishly happy up until the time it vaporizes me.

http://news.yahoo.com/apocalypse-not-now-2012-doomsday-predictions-debunked-nasa-055304813.html

I dunno where Nancy got her information, but the aliens from Zeta Reticuli, didn't tell ME about Nibiru. I think they are laughing at her because she is so gullible. Maybe that's where god lives.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 48
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/1/2012 7:57:23 AM

For those keeping score at home, that would be Gwendolyn 1, MondoVman O. At least that's the view from here...


But he'll come back with a bigger shovel and keep on digging.

Nice work, Gwen.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 49
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/1/2012 8:41:37 AM

But he'll come back with a bigger shovel and keep on digging.

Nice work, Gwen.


:)

His shovel has holes in it.

I assume that particular poster does not understand the metaphorical aspects of words. For instance, people often say, "Joe/Mary stole my heart." I hope no one ever says this to said poster because he will haul out a dictionary, read the definitions, then explain how a heart simply can't be stolen.

Unless, of course, it is purloined by organ transplant thieves.

He will then insult her education and intelligence for having made such a remark.
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 50
End of the World (2012) and POF ?
Posted: 1/3/2012 12:44:20 PM
http://gma.yahoo.com/mayan-calendar-predicts-doomsday-2012-not-170613297.html


O'Neill blames the viral marketing campaign in 2009 that promoted the Roland Emmerich disaster movie "2012." The film got mediocre reviews but sold a lot of DVDs. And social scientists say the mythology of a doomsday prophecy fits an old pattern: When times are tough, it's almost comforting for people to blame higher unseen powers.
"It's almost like you're out there looking for evidence of a looming apocalypse," said anthropologist Wade Davis, an explorer-in-residence at the National Geographic Society, "and I think it also ties into a lot of uncertainty that exists in our world today."
But 2012 does promise to be a heck of a year, with a still-shaky global economy, a stubbornly high unemployment rate and a presidential election. The scientists say we can take stock on Dec. 22.
"I can think of a lot of reasons to cash out and run away with your family these days to a desert island," said Davis, "but this Mayan prophesy isn't one of them."
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