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 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 101
Who is right?Page 5 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
One solution to the OP's friends' situation is for the couple to have a pre-nup before getting married. The pre-nup should say if the guy buys her a ring and any other jewelry during their engagement and marriage, and the marriage ends, the woman is to return all jewelry to the guy. If the woman doesn't agree to that and still demands a ring, she could buy her own ring. I view an engagement ring or any other type of present (some cultures might give goats as an engagement present) not only as a promise to marry, but a promise to put in the effort and work required to make a marriage work. What good is an engagement if there is no effort made to make the marriage part work?
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 102
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 7:40:36 PM

"happy wife, happy life."

I'm guessing this is a joke. Sacrificing one's happiness for the sake of another will inevitably lead to both being unhappy at some point.

We've jumped to the conclusion here that she wants some big, expensive ring. Maybe she just wants a modest one, not the big rip off diamond (my friend sells jewelry and says rings marked "engagement" at the store are marked up substantially more than other diamond settings, to take advantage of their perceived "life long" value) that makes her hand sting a person's eye in the sunlight.

Maybe she thinks the big, materialistic wedding is foolish, too, we don't know! We do know there's a disagreement about the whole thing and that's the real problem. The bottom line is, they both have to stick by their principals, whatever they may be. If they try to change themselves for a marriage, it's doomed before it even starts.

We personally decided to skip the expensive symbolic stuff, went with a modest engagement ring, followed by modest wedding bands, followed by... wait for it... a really awesome vacation! The caveat is we agreed to that stuff and felt happy about our decisions. This couple has to come to that, or else.
 pencildot
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 103
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 7:45:30 PM
My question is why does he want to get into the marriage itself? They love each other then why marry? Marriage does not bring two people together, its the love that keeps them together!
Ring is something traditionally given to a woman by a man asking her in marriage and this has seeded into most women like marriage. He should buy her a ring and ask her to marry him.
 cin____dy
Joined: 8/21/2011
Msg: 104
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 7:48:02 PM
He is being silly, a ring is a promise. It is a tangible promise. If he can't do that, what about his thinking on birthdays, anniversaries, does he feel those have no basis?
It is silly, he is just being unromantic.
 NolitaFairytale
Joined: 10/4/2011
Msg: 105
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 8:08:25 PM
If it's not a money issue then he should just get a ring. Frankly, I think he's being cheap if he can afford it and he won't buy it. It's the usual thing to do. It's not like she's asking for something 'weird.'
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 106
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Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 8:14:56 PM
How about he buys her an engagement ring and she give him season tickets to his favorite team or a new snowmobile, a good marriage is all about compromise. Nobody should feel gyp-ed.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 107
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Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 8:18:09 PM
I cannot wait to get the official ring, it would mean we've traversed all the bs and our families are looking at us as a real couple that will last.
 ridesbikes
Joined: 9/8/2010
Msg: 108
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Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 8:37:13 PM
I think it's a lost cause by now. I dragged my feet when proposing to my future ex-wife and was given an ultimatum and date to propose by. That sucked every ounce of romance out of the situation. I feel this is no different. The elements of surprise and anticipation are obviously gone.

Also, if it's not a money issue, what is it? Is he just that much of an overbearing control freak that relies on such acts to keep his dominance known? And he can also use this to measure the extent of just how high he keeps his upper hand?

I wish them luck though.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 109
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 10:46:40 PM

wow,,,,,,,you know,,,you can also buy a woman to make you happy if you are a guy,,it's called a prostitute,,and at this moment,,,,i am having a hard time distinguishing between,,,,

being with and having sex with a man FOR money and
being and having sex with a man BECAUSE he has money

Since I have experience with both endeavors, let me explain it to you. When you have sex with a prostitute, you're paying her to leave afterward. When you buy an engagement ring, you're making a committment to your fiancee to marry her. I certainly wasn't paying for sex, given that my fiancee and I were having sex for more than a year and half before I gave her the ring. I gave her the ring because I wanted to give it to her and I spent what I spent beause I could only buy an engagement ring once and she'll have it for life. She would have been happy with anything, so I wasn't coerced into buying it.

Even if you're cynical enough to figure out the cost of getting laid by purchasing a ring, it would be peanuts compared to the cost of a decent escort. Getting an engagement ring for sex would be very poor economics on a woman's part.

either way,,you are paying for something,,,,,

You're paying for something when you buy someone a christmas present, too, but hopefully it's the christmas present and not the affection of the person to whom you are giving it. If you think you're paying for sex or affection by purchasing an engagement ring, I'm sorry. Life must suck. You couldn't pry that ring off of my fiancee's finger and it means a hell of a lot more to her than what it cost. I consider it to be money well spent.

The op never said the woman wanted an expensive engagement ring. She just wanted an engagement ring.
 adora71
Joined: 2/8/2010
Msg: 110
Who is right?
Posted: 1/5/2012 11:25:21 PM
I agree with the people who say that it doesn't really matter who is right--they just have to figure this out. Right now it sounds like a big power struggle. Ultimately, the ring will be a symbol of a battle rather than a symbol of love and commitment, if the battle continues.

If the guy can't get his head around buying a ring, then he shouldn't and some other road must be taken. If she can't marry without a ring, then she shouldn't. Myself, I wouldn't care too much one way or the other about the ring, if I truly loved the guy.

I may be tempted to buy myself one so people would know that I'm not fishing anymore though.
 AddHomonym
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 111
Who is right?
Posted: 1/6/2012 12:09:41 AM
I don't think it really matters what we think about rings. The sad part is that the two "friends" have such a total disconnect in their values. Values isn't just about money, in this case, the values at odds are way more important than that.
 114M3
Joined: 4/19/2011
Msg: 112
Who is right?
Posted: 1/6/2012 12:53:45 AM
^^^ Yep. That's how I pretty much see it too. ... obviously they are each placing their values differently on this issue. ... Thus makes one wonder if there are other issues which their values are polarized too? ...... Nothing is too small to ever be an issue in relationships if two people cannot see eye-to-eye.
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 113
Who is right?
Posted: 1/18/2012 11:20:45 PM
I dont get it..if he can buy her a ring which will make her happier,
why would he withhold that token of love from her just because he does not
see it that way?
if he does get her a ring,..he needs to be sure he does it in a giving spirit not an begrudgingly because that memory will be sealed in both of their minds and hearts.
I seriously think what this man is doing is for control,
and for withholding.
withholding what you can give is not good in a love relationship.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 114
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 12:04:30 AM

I want a ring... and yes, doesn't have to be a totally expensive ring... perhaps 3 mo's pay worth???

So shall we say about $10k-$15k would do it?

I dont get it..if he can buy her a ring which will make her happier, why would he withhold that token of love from her just because he does not see it that way?

Well, why do we not give tokens of love demanded of us when we don’t believe in them? Isn’t it because they’re empty tokens, without sincere feeling? And because it’s a shakedown?


if he does get her a ring,..he needs to be sure he does it in a giving spirit not an begrudgingly because that memory will be sealed in both of their minds and hearts.

I think that’s a problem here.


I seriously think what this man is doing is for control,
and for withholding. withholding what you can give is not good in a love relationship.

I guess. She’s saying if you want to marry me, give me $15k. He’s saying no. So he’s controlling and witholding. How about if he says give me $15k or I won’t marry you? Unthinkable, right? Demanding. Preposterous.

She feels that he not wanting to purchase a ring is like him saying she’s not worth him spending his money on a ring for her. What do you guys think?

She will base her sense of worth to him on the cost of the ring. Which is a fantastic idea. For DeBeers.

I say he should pay a dowry to her father. Just buy her outright. Say ten head of cattle. And a dozen sheep. Or maybe keep one sheep for himself.
 114M3
Joined: 4/19/2011
Msg: 115
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 12:55:59 AM

I say he should pay a dowry to her father. Just buy her outright. Say ten head of cattle. And a dozen sheep. Or maybe keep one sheep for himself.


In my culture, grooms are required to pay a dowry to the bride's parents, in monetary means (traditionally it was silver bars, but cash is the more practical medium these days ) and also in means of livestock. This dowry is to signify his respect towards the bride and her family. ... However, since about a couple decades now that we have integrated with western culture -- there have been many critics among my own culture of this practice. ... Mostly saying that it is putting a price on the bride like she was some sort of property or livestock. .. Some protesting that it should be abolished altogether.


It's funny but in a round-about sort of way, after reading some comments on here -- this "ring" practice seems to convey almost the same thing.

Western token of love = ring for the bride
Eastern token of love = dowry paid to brides parents.

Both resonate material object in exchange for the symbolism of love/respect.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 116
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 2:50:31 AM
I want a ring... and yes, doesn't have to be a totally expensive ring... perhaps 3 mo's pay worth??? hehehe I dunno, just give me a frickin ring...

Three months pay worth? Are you kidding? Three months pay at minimum wage is $3480.00 before taxes. I personally consider that reasonable and I spent more than that for my fiancee's ring, but I don't think a person making minimum wage would consider that to be reasonable. By the time you get to a salary of even $60,000.00/year, you're talking about a $15,000.00 ring, which in my opinion is more than anyone ought to spend for a ring. I wouldn't spend that much if I was making $200,000.00/year. Good luck with that. If a guy was making $60,000.00 a year and had a choice between spending $15,000.00 on an engagement ring or using it to make a down payment on a house, I think the house would be the obvious choice. The mortgage payments would be cheaper than materialistic wife payments.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 117
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 5:16:12 AM

Who is right?


Me... always.

I was at a coffee shop few of days ago. I was standing in line and I overheard a woman say to another, "I'm not engaged yet, but I'm already planning my wedding."

I wanted to turn around and say, "That's hilarious! I'm not engaged yet, but I'm already building a supply of condoms and lube."

For the obvious reasons, I did not say it. And I quickly realized that she might get the joke, but not the analogy, the point.

The point?

If I'm going to be the starting actor, known as the "groom" in a woman's fantasy, then don't be surprised... forget it... shortcut:

Your friend needs a groom, someone to fill a roll in a fantasy, a sitting arrangement in a woman's mind, and an empty seat in a church (or city hall), not a husband.

Simplified further: If it is about the ring, the wedding, whatever, then it isn't about the man. If it is about the man, then pretty much nothing else matters... the ring, the wedding, etc.. If I was her boyfriend, I too wouldn't buy her a ring.
 deere rancher
Joined: 7/9/2008
Msg: 118
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 5:40:42 AM
I find it odd , if not revealing ... how some women want to selectively apply tradition and culture ... when it suits their desires
If you want to throw tradition in as a reason for giving the ring , wouldn't you then expect to have a traditional wife ..?

sounds like the groom has doubts ..maybe the bride too . not exactly the right time to plan a wedding
 rigal41
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 119
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 6:20:07 AM
I personally don't get the point of view or demand of some women, but I have no idea how old this couple is or anything about their past. Having been married before I'm not bent on getting any certain ring if I were to get married again. I actually would prefer just a nice band...not a big deal, easy enough of a symbol between us. They certainly have some talking to do before they even get married.
 tlcme1964
Joined: 8/28/2009
Msg: 120
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 6:34:54 AM
As a guy I agree.

Too long have we let society dictate & brainwash us to the point we lost site of what's important. I'd prefer she loved me deeply than insist on a show off trophy.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 121
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 7:19:44 AM


I want a ring... and yes, doesn't have to be a totally expensive ring... perhaps 3 mo's pay worth???


If you want a ring, why don't you go and buy yourself one.. perhaps spent 8 months of your pays worth?
 AngelofHonesty
Joined: 1/4/2012
Msg: 122
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 7:32:28 AM
OMG...WTF , what will he say next that she doesn't need a wedding dress or ceremony, or a wedding ring either....an engagement ring is a symbol of being engaged...of course most men won't get it...but that's their damn problem...I would never except a proposal to marry someone without a ring, sorry but girls will be girls. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter common sense. And of course she's excited about the darn engagement ring, and when she starts to plan the wedding, she will be really excited about that and yes he will fade in the background, it's the way it goes. Everything about a wedding is about the female starting with the engagement ring, all he has to do is show up at the alter and pray she doesn't leave him hanging there. Listen guys..you know how you want to have your man cave room and the biggest damn flatscreen TV on the planet, well a ring is like that for a woman... Trust me, you don't want your girl to dump you and dedicate the song by Beyonce "YOU SHOULD HAVE PUT A RING ON IT", ouch!!!!!!!
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 123
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 7:41:35 AM
Nothing quite like a good stomp-down over a meaningless non-issue.

Please - don't let common sense intrude on the fact that a ring means nothing more than someone having the ability to fashion one from raw materials and establish a selling price for it a third party was willing - and able - to afford. Objects have no intrinsic meaning - their only meaning is extrinsic. Meaning is assigned by the owner of the object.

The 'societal meaning' of the ring has come about through centuries of applied civil case law and adjudication, and people never realize the 'marriage contract' entered into is actually a public intimidation ceremony designed to assure certainty of issue from the pairing. It serves the purpose of making it VERY difficult to remove one's self from the contract after the fact. Example: The ease with which one gets married versus the 'ease' with which one can obtain a divorce - or an annulment. It's about nothing so much as providing a means to verify lineal legitimacy for the issue from the pair-bond.

A ring can come from the toniest of 'toney' establishments or from a box of Cracker Jack. Its function is strictly secondary - possibly even tertiary. It is NOT primary.

Saith Tina: "What's love got to do with it?"
 HarDayKnight
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 124
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 7:58:24 AM

OMG...WTF , what will he say next that she doesn't need a wedding dress or ceremony, or a wedding ring either....


If we're going to be all traditional, I'll buy the rings, your daddy can provide a nice dowry and pay for the wedding.

 playfulpete
Joined: 2/23/2007
Msg: 125
Who is right?
Posted: 1/19/2012 8:14:01 AM
Sorry ladies,i agree with the guy.A marrage isn,t about possions it is about love[ sorry for the spelling]If she is wanting a ring now then what will she want in the future.
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