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 AUTHOR
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 118
Angry DatersPage 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

I'm serious, how could you even fathom calling a woman and asking her out and then "expect" her to pick up half the tab.


For whatever reason it kept timing me out and I could'nt edit.....

I can understand your reasoning after a couple of dates, but not from the first date.....

I can hear the conversation now...

Him: hi, so and so....listen I was wondering if you would like to go catch that new movie that just came out and maybe grab a bite to eat after?

Her: that sounds great, I'd love too.

Him: ok great, I'll pick you up Friday about 7 .....by the way the movie will cost about 25 dollars and maybe 25 for a meal after so it should'nt be much more than 30 dollars for your part. See ya then...bye.

That might work for you, but I can't see me going that route. That sounds like a play out of team cheap **stards playbook. Lol ymmv
 J_BigHorse
Joined: 7/17/2013
Msg: 119
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 4:13:18 AM

I can understand your reasoning after a couple of dates, but not from the first date.....

I can hear the conversation now...

Him: hi, so and so....listen I was wondering if you would like to go catch that new movie that just came out and maybe grab a bite to eat after?

Her: that sounds great, I'd love too.

Him: ok great, I'll pick you up Friday about 7 .....by the way the movie will cost about 25 dollars and maybe 25 for a meal after so it should'nt be much more than 30 dollars for your part. See ya then...bye.

That might work for you, but I can't see me going that route. That sounds like a play out of team cheap **stards playbook. Lol ymmv


I would be very suspect of let's say, a Ferrari, being sold for the price of a Pinto as well as the corollary.

If you undervalue yourself, you will attract tire kickers who can't afford to put gas in your tank and if you overprice yourself, you will remain on the lot indefinitely.

Know your blue book value and proceed accordingly.

I concur with Mr. Catcher, seems as though our generation understands fair value.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 120
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 5:45:36 AM
Angry/bitter/negative people probably ought not date. Not sure why they do except to have their theories validated.
Maybe I just don't understand the definition of the word.
If you enjoy being with someone that should be what counts - not who bought the last latte.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 121
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 6:16:30 AM

At what point in life did someone tell you that when you ask a woman out you should expect her to go dutch? I'm serious, how could you even fathom calling a woman and asking her out and then "expect" her to pick up half the tab.


Well, I don't know crook, I guess you're more traditional than me. To each his own. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as you let her know beforehand and don't surprise her when the checks comes.
 Whistle_Stop
Joined: 4/9/2015
Msg: 122
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 6:50:19 AM
Dee


It appears that there's a 'double standard' in that some women expect to enjoy all of the fruits of "equality" but when asked to pay the price for that, literally or figuratively, they then hide behind the "I'm old-fashioned that way" credo, and/or "he's not a quality person" if he asks for a contribution to a date....or that she simply carry her own weight

Yep.....that's what I'm seeing too.


Angry/bitter/negative people probably ought not date

I'd add BROKE to that. I would never go on a meet without money and expect anyone to pay my way.

@CC.....I have never had a conversation before hand of "who is paying"......I agree to meet and always expect and offer to pay for myself.
Times are changing.....We aren't living in the age of...where we meet irl...and that interest was there to bring us together and date one on one....the age where a lot of women didn't work or could afford it.

For pete sake...we are meeting virtual strangers on line....some may have a few meets a week...I know, I use to.
It's just about self worth and integrity to me....to pay my own way.
Once "if" we are a couple....it works itself out on....I may cook or he then pays for a night out.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 123
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 7:33:37 AM

@CC.....I have never had a conversation before hand of "who is paying".


Neither have I nor would I. Personally it would be embarassing for me to look at my date when the bill or tab came waiting for her to offer to pay half. Absolutely an epic fail imo.

My point being that if a woman interests me enough to where I would like to ask her out, I want her to accept based on her having interest in me as well.

She's not initiating the contact I am, and in doing so I would never expect, ask or imply that she should be prepared to pay for her share of the cost of the date. To me that would reek of cheap.

Now if in today's dating world that's considered "old fashioned" or behind the times well I guess I'm in that camp.

I'm not talking about "first meets" I'm talking about a real date. YMMV
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 124
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 7:56:28 AM
"Now if in today's dating world that's considered "old fashioned" or behind the times well I guess I'm in that"

Mr. Crookcatcher....in my opinion it makes you neither of those things.

What it makes you is a lovely man . :)
 Whistle_Stop
Joined: 4/9/2015
Msg: 125
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 8:02:42 AM

What it makes you is a lovely man . :)

Oh Boy!
I'm not saying that men that pay are old fashioned or less honourable...I was talking about the "women"...who still expect the man to pay because they are entitled....simply because they are a woman.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand ?

You probably are a lovely, decent man C.C......Just to be clear, not all "men" that pay are decent, lovely men...anymore than "all " women that don't pay are "gold diggers"...:)
I just dislike when people broad paint on here....

Have a good Day all...off for pedi and manicure...and a weekend of fun!
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 126
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 8:21:03 AM

..I was talking about the "women"...who still expect the man to pay because they are entitled


Whether a woman feels entitled or not isn't a factor when I ask her out. I won't even have a clue as to her viewpoint on that when I ask. But it is a reflection of me when I do ask her out though and that is important to me. :)

Now if after three or so dates and she suggests venues and what not and expects to have it paid for totally then yes you are correct. Fortunately I've never dated or been involved with anyone like that. :)




What it makes you is a lovely man . :)


Quit it.....you'll make folk's think I'm nice or something. :)
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 127
view profile
History
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 8:38:30 AM
Ahhhh CC....ya know that you ARE one of the 'good ones'..... ;-)

But I also, was talking about women, not so much the men....and the only time that I ran into this type of situation was MANY years ago with a younger guy, who was also a student who was working only part-time....

He invited me out for ice cream...and after ordering and giving me my cone....Then stood there looking at me, when the cashier told us how much it was.....

So I paid for both....lol

Although I assumed that he wasn't rolling in it due to his circumstances, turns out he was THAT broke and didn't say a word to me beforehand....

Was a bit awkward and there was no chemistry, but we did remain in contact for a while after, as he really was a nice guy....
 Eternityboreme
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 128
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 9:51:39 AM

Him: ok great, I'll pick you up Friday about 7 .....by the way the movie will cost about 25 dollars and maybe 25 for a meal after so it should'nt be much more than 30 dollars for your part. See ya then...bye.

That might work for you, but I can't see me going that route. That sounds like a play out of team cheap **stards playbook. Lol ymmv


It'd be akin to me asking my date to fork over half of eating a home-cooked meal, at my place, which would exceed an amount of money he spends on me for my part of the dinner.

ME: Yes, honey, I'd like you to come to my place for a candle-lit dinner, wine or champagne, home-made desert. Since you insist equality and going dutch, your portion will be determined, accordingly:

-- what you eat (I'll measure every bit)
-- how much you drink (by glass)
--the cost of water to wash dishes, launder table clothes, serviettes, etc, and prepare food
--detergents and cleaners and polishes
--fuel to cook the food and maintenance (wear and tear) to appliances and the electricity to run them
--MY TIME making elaborate preparations and preparation food and leg work to get the wine/champagne/groceries/flowers/candles
--heating the home to make you comfortable
--the amount of time you spend occupying space in my home

I'd never, EVER ask somebody to do this on my invitation (it's culturally offensive in my world), so why should somebody who invited me for dinner demand the same? When somebody comes to my home, they are treated well and with respect. And I certainly expect the same in kind when I'm invited to dinner by him.

Speaking of equality to those who think I'm a gold-digging slut, why is what I offer less meaningful (equitable) in terms of contribution, worthy of derision and marginalization? What's equal or even equitable about this situation? Don't you think what I offer far outweighs his invitation to dinner at my home? A quality man would appreciate and respect this.

OTOH, A "go dutch" (low-caliber) man would rather I pay for the coffee, my portion of the dinner on occasional restaurant visits, movies or half regardless of his excessive and costly portion and want me to subsidize it, use my home as a free bed and breakfast, and not even bother to thank me. This is not how I conduct myself.

It's an equitable exchange if a couple share their talents and gifts with each other, as each person in that relationship brings something different to the relationship and to and for each other.
 VolkanoKing
Joined: 8/1/2014
Msg: 129
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:05:55 AM
Entitlement (a very overused word) has nothing to do with it. If a man initiates the date, he should offer to pay. OFFER to pay. He is asking for her time. It's really pretty simple.

I've never once felt entitled to anything I haven't earned on my own. I always offer to pay my share on dates, and sometimes I do. But seriously. You ask for her time...then you treat her to a date. If you are not prepared to pay for a meal at Denny's to maybe kick off the start of a great relationship I don't see a fabulous future waiting around the corner.

If you ASK you pay. If I asked a man out, if I initiated, I'd pay..and I have. I've paid for a few movie tickets, meals and coffees.

So...no big deal.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 130
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:09:42 AM
Eternity, some of us men also like to cook for their partners. In my last relationship I did the majority of the cooking and house cleaning.

Just because I prefer to share the cost of meal on a first date does not mean that I'm a "low-caliber" man. I do not expect a woman to pay for my coffee, and I will not use her home as a free bed and breakfast.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 131
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:21:15 AM

Entitlement (a very overused word) has nothing to do with it. If a man initiates the date, he should offer to pay. OFFER to pay. He is asking for her time. It's really pretty simple.


I have never been asked out on a dinner date by a woman. I've been asked to go for a coffee a couple of times and I paid for my own coffee. I used to think it was just me, until I talked to other guys who said the same thing- even in 2015 many women still do not take the initiative to ask a guy out. This is part of the reason why I prefer to go dutch- I don't want to spend all this money on women who I'm probably never going to see again and I never get anything in return. This issue is so overlooked by society that even the feminists are unaware of it.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 132
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:31:50 AM
OTOH, A "go dutch" (low-caliber) man would rather I pay for the coffee, my ... Blah blah blah...
---------------------------------
A quality person NEVER expects something from another person. Period. Nothing is owed to you for being you.
A quality person always offers to (at the very least) carry his or her own weight.
A quality person always sees another person's generosity as being gracious, not an obligation.
A quality person always remembers to thank someone for being gracious.

------------------------
It'd be akin to me asking my date to fork over half of eating a home-cooked meal, at my place, which would exceed an amount of money he spends on me for my part of the dinner.
-----------------------
When I eat at my girlfriend's place, I almost always buy the groceries, cook the meal and clean up when I'm done so she can relax. When we go out, I almost always pay. Just because. Generosity begets generosity. The reason you find so many low quality men is that you are stingy and self centered with absolutely no empathy for anyone.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 133
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:40:02 AM
He is asking for her time. It's really pretty simple.
--------------------------------
I pay because I choose to, not because I'm asking for her time. If she is not as interested in my time as I am in hers, then she has an overly inflated opinion of what her time is worth and she can sit home. If I'm paying for her time, then I would expect to find her on backpage.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 134
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 10:41:42 AM

I don't want to spend all this money on women who I'm probably never going to see again and I never get anything in return.


There's the difference, apparently you date or ask women out for the sake of having a date.

I've never asked a woman out with the thought that I'm probably never going to see them again. I can't believe that would be condusive to putting forth your best in any capacity.

If you ask a woman out and she agree's and you both have a good or decent interaction that's the return on your investment at this time. In later dates things progress naturally. ymmv :)
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 135
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 11:07:46 AM

I've never asked a woman out with the thought that I'm probably never going to see them again. I can't believe that would be condusive to putting forth your best in any capacity.


I realize that just because I find a woman attractive does not necessarily mean she finds me interesting and attractive, even if I have confidence and put forth my best. I think one should not get their hopes up too high that there will be a second date. One time I had a date and after only about 5 minutes the girl decided we didn't click and she took off.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 136
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 12:16:49 PM

One time I had a date and after only about 5 minutes the girl decided we didn't click and she took off.


Is this a date or a pof first meet?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 137
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 2:44:32 PM

Is this a date or a pof first meet?


I think people are getting 'meets' and 'dates' and 'exclusivity' and 'going out' all confused.

I have no problem paying for myself at a meet or going out together. After a few times going out (as friends), I have no problems inviting someone to my home and whipping up an omelet for a quick dinner as we continue our conversation. I do this with my friends and, because they are my friends, they reciprocate in many ways as well.

Once someone has said or implied exclusivity and then asks me for a date, then I would assume he would pay unless otherwise specified. It's a judgment call and, so far in life, I've judged the context correctly.

Eternityboresme - I'm not crazy about the broken bottles/low-hanging fruit metaphor either. They're boring. I'm pretty sure they're not even correctly applicable since the terms categorize human beings of widely varied experiences into a stereotypical image based on the single social measurement of success in dating as defined by you. Although I am glad you defined them; I was thinking about asking.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 138
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 3:48:24 PM

Quit it.....you'll make folk's think I'm nice or something. :)


We can already tell you are nice :)

I always offer to pay my way on early dates. Only one man ever took me up on it and he turned out to be a major cheapskate ( that's on another thread, though). Once in a relationship, it tends to even itself out as soon as the guy begins to be comfortable with letting me pay for things.

I get the general impression that men don't mind paying so much as they mind the expectation that they will do so.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 139
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 4:24:27 PM

even in 2015 many women still do not take the initiative to ask a guy out.


Why should we? “Many” women don’t have to. You make it sound like if only women were forced to ask guys out, you’d get asked out and apparently then you wouldn’t have to waste your money or really, expend any energy at all on women.

Women don’t have to ask men out. It has nothing to do with the year. However you can be the change you wish for the world by refusing to ask women out, no one’s forcing you. Unlikely you’ll get the other billions of men to go along with you though.

Speaking of “Angry Daters”…..If I invited a man to dinner in my home, I wouldn’t even be considering what it’s supposedly “costing” me. I guess if my home is heated, it’s heated for me, too, so how do you figure his share of utilizing “your” heat? Polishing silver? Washing linens? Is the “silver” not polished for you as well? Why not just use cutlery like everyone else? Just charge him the cost of his tiny square of tablecloth, it’s not like he’s taking up the whole table. Use candles so he doesn’t rack up your electric bill. Sheesh. I wouldn’t even THINK of being so petty…let alone date it.

While I do agree that a man who invites a woman to dinner or any other kind of date assumes the role of host (ie. pays for it), I don’t think people who choose to do things differently deserve to be insulted and called ridiculous names you made up and nobody else understands anyway, just so you can feel better about yourself. You’re not the only woman who ever got screwed over by a man. Bitter unkindness is unbecoming and not a feature of any “quality” woman.


Why would a broken bottle man bother to effort a relationship with a quality woman when he knows he doesn't have to pay for his invitation and can effectively demand the world and get it without doing a thing?


Wait….I thought “broken bottles” = bad. Why would a “quality” woman deign to give a “broken bottle man” a chance to “effort” a relationship with “quality” her in the first place? Sounds like she’s got a bum picker, a “broken bottle picker” if you will…..can’t tell a broken bottle from a low hanging fruit, and resents all of them.


You are sort of like the Ann Coulter of dating.


Oh snap! SMH
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 140
view profile
History
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 5:15:21 PM

I realize that just because I find a woman attractive does not necessarily mean she finds me interesting and attractive, even if I have confidence and put forth my best. I think one should not get their hopes up too high that there will be a second date. One time I had a date and after only about 5 minutes the girl decided we didn't click and she took off.



Well that is the normal way it works. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go in to it expecting good things. Just don't be outcome dependent. Still need to have your positive game face on!

You would also best avoid the 'who pays fiasco?' by meeting someplace where it isn't an issue, because you don't mind parting with the small amount, regardless of outcome. For example, go for a walk, go for a drink, etc. Just don't sit down and get food with them. There is NO REASON you should be feeding virtual strangers. The meeting is like approaching someone in a bar/club/street. There is no predicted outcome.

I might be a bit more adamant about this than most for a few reasons:

1. I grew up thinking/conditioned of outdoor dining as something special. It is a special event and should be done with someone special TO YOU that you ENJOY and ENJOY'S you.

2. NYC , at 2-3 meetings a week= close to 800 bucks! Ludicrous amount to spend on any outing, especially a stranger. Many here have similar concerns.

3. For those who enjoy seduction ;) the idea is NOT to sit around with food in your mouth or worst watch her with food in her mouth. The idea is too escalate attraction. Much better in a lounge/pub where you are sitting beside her or 45 degree angle too. Or walking and holding hands. Or dancing and grabbing her @#%%%. Point is eating in a restaurant does NOTHING for both of you to make the spark burn brighter.

Disclaimer- my advice is a bit flawed because , although I SAVED A LOT on meetings , I actually tend to be traditional and date traditional gals that expect a man to TAKE care of them and lead(Me Tarzan, they Lucky ). So my dating/mini relationships/ LTR tend to cost me. But those are gals who are with me so it is all good. Plus now I get food cooked for me ;) and only have to occasionally order out.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 141
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 5:22:24 PM
I've been told I'm immature. Perhaps that makes me a baby bottle?
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 142
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 6:54:02 PM
crookcatcher- I graduated in 1986 and was married in 1989.
Add to that, being raised by my grandparents who were born in 1909 and 1907 (miss you, grandma and pop).
So there I was newly single, in 2010 and completely lost!
How had things changed since the 80's?
Were the things my grandparents taught me practiced anymore?
I was always told, according to manners, the person who does the inviting pays.
This was not just true of dating, but of any situation.
Now, here I am flying by the seat of my pants and realizing the rules seem to change according to the person.
So, slow but sure, I have learned to ask, just to be clear and I always go on a date with money.
Such is dating these days.
I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but that is the reality we deal with.
Btw- Most of your posts make me smile, there is just something about the way you reply that tells me that you are a good man. Being nice isn't a bad thing :)
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