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 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 136
Angry DatersPage 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

One time I had a date and after only about 5 minutes the girl decided we didn't click and she took off.


Is this a date or a pof first meet?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 137
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 2:44:32 PM

Is this a date or a pof first meet?


I think people are getting 'meets' and 'dates' and 'exclusivity' and 'going out' all confused.

I have no problem paying for myself at a meet or going out together. After a few times going out (as friends), I have no problems inviting someone to my home and whipping up an omelet for a quick dinner as we continue our conversation. I do this with my friends and, because they are my friends, they reciprocate in many ways as well.

Once someone has said or implied exclusivity and then asks me for a date, then I would assume he would pay unless otherwise specified. It's a judgment call and, so far in life, I've judged the context correctly.

Eternityboresme - I'm not crazy about the broken bottles/low-hanging fruit metaphor either. They're boring. I'm pretty sure they're not even correctly applicable since the terms categorize human beings of widely varied experiences into a stereotypical image based on the single social measurement of success in dating as defined by you. Although I am glad you defined them; I was thinking about asking.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 138
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 3:48:24 PM

Quit it.....you'll make folk's think I'm nice or something. :)


We can already tell you are nice :)

I always offer to pay my way on early dates. Only one man ever took me up on it and he turned out to be a major cheapskate ( that's on another thread, though). Once in a relationship, it tends to even itself out as soon as the guy begins to be comfortable with letting me pay for things.

I get the general impression that men don't mind paying so much as they mind the expectation that they will do so.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 139
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 4:24:27 PM

even in 2015 many women still do not take the initiative to ask a guy out.


Why should we? “Many” women don’t have to. You make it sound like if only women were forced to ask guys out, you’d get asked out and apparently then you wouldn’t have to waste your money or really, expend any energy at all on women.

Women don’t have to ask men out. It has nothing to do with the year. However you can be the change you wish for the world by refusing to ask women out, no one’s forcing you. Unlikely you’ll get the other billions of men to go along with you though.

Speaking of “Angry Daters”…..If I invited a man to dinner in my home, I wouldn’t even be considering what it’s supposedly “costing” me. I guess if my home is heated, it’s heated for me, too, so how do you figure his share of utilizing “your” heat? Polishing silver? Washing linens? Is the “silver” not polished for you as well? Why not just use cutlery like everyone else? Just charge him the cost of his tiny square of tablecloth, it’s not like he’s taking up the whole table. Use candles so he doesn’t rack up your electric bill. Sheesh. I wouldn’t even THINK of being so petty…let alone date it.

While I do agree that a man who invites a woman to dinner or any other kind of date assumes the role of host (ie. pays for it), I don’t think people who choose to do things differently deserve to be insulted and called ridiculous names you made up and nobody else understands anyway, just so you can feel better about yourself. You’re not the only woman who ever got screwed over by a man. Bitter unkindness is unbecoming and not a feature of any “quality” woman.


Why would a broken bottle man bother to effort a relationship with a quality woman when he knows he doesn't have to pay for his invitation and can effectively demand the world and get it without doing a thing?


Wait….I thought “broken bottles” = bad. Why would a “quality” woman deign to give a “broken bottle man” a chance to “effort” a relationship with “quality” her in the first place? Sounds like she’s got a bum picker, a “broken bottle picker” if you will…..can’t tell a broken bottle from a low hanging fruit, and resents all of them.


You are sort of like the Ann Coulter of dating.


Oh snap! SMH
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 140
view profile
History
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 5:15:21 PM

I realize that just because I find a woman attractive does not necessarily mean she finds me interesting and attractive, even if I have confidence and put forth my best. I think one should not get their hopes up too high that there will be a second date. One time I had a date and after only about 5 minutes the girl decided we didn't click and she took off.



Well that is the normal way it works. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go in to it expecting good things. Just don't be outcome dependent. Still need to have your positive game face on!

You would also best avoid the 'who pays fiasco?' by meeting someplace where it isn't an issue, because you don't mind parting with the small amount, regardless of outcome. For example, go for a walk, go for a drink, etc. Just don't sit down and get food with them. There is NO REASON you should be feeding virtual strangers. The meeting is like approaching someone in a bar/club/street. There is no predicted outcome.

I might be a bit more adamant about this than most for a few reasons:

1. I grew up thinking/conditioned of outdoor dining as something special. It is a special event and should be done with someone special TO YOU that you ENJOY and ENJOY'S you.

2. NYC , at 2-3 meetings a week= close to 800 bucks! Ludicrous amount to spend on any outing, especially a stranger. Many here have similar concerns.

3. For those who enjoy seduction ;) the idea is NOT to sit around with food in your mouth or worst watch her with food in her mouth. The idea is too escalate attraction. Much better in a lounge/pub where you are sitting beside her or 45 degree angle too. Or walking and holding hands. Or dancing and grabbing her @#%%%. Point is eating in a restaurant does NOTHING for both of you to make the spark burn brighter.

Disclaimer- my advice is a bit flawed because , although I SAVED A LOT on meetings , I actually tend to be traditional and date traditional gals that expect a man to TAKE care of them and lead(Me Tarzan, they Lucky ). So my dating/mini relationships/ LTR tend to cost me. But those are gals who are with me so it is all good. Plus now I get food cooked for me ;) and only have to occasionally order out.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 141
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 5:22:24 PM
I've been told I'm immature. Perhaps that makes me a baby bottle?
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 142
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/15/2015 6:54:02 PM
crookcatcher- I graduated in 1986 and was married in 1989.
Add to that, being raised by my grandparents who were born in 1909 and 1907 (miss you, grandma and pop).
So there I was newly single, in 2010 and completely lost!
How had things changed since the 80's?
Were the things my grandparents taught me practiced anymore?
I was always told, according to manners, the person who does the inviting pays.
This was not just true of dating, but of any situation.
Now, here I am flying by the seat of my pants and realizing the rules seem to change according to the person.
So, slow but sure, I have learned to ask, just to be clear and I always go on a date with money.
Such is dating these days.
I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but that is the reality we deal with.
Btw- Most of your posts make me smile, there is just something about the way you reply that tells me that you are a good man. Being nice isn't a bad thing :)
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 143
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/16/2015 4:42:37 AM
The parasite views its behavior as normal and as nature intended. The host, on the other hand, thinks “WTF, get this thing off of me!”
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 144
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/16/2015 6:04:24 AM
And sometimes Joe....
when the parasite and the host take the time the look at their own behavior and that of others' they realize the relationship is actually....a symbolic one. :)
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 145
view profile
History
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/16/2015 8:34:22 PM
^ Do you mean symbolic, or symbiotic?
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 146
Angry Daters
Posted: 5/28/2015 1:04:42 PM

Why should we? “Many” women don’t have to. You make it sound like if only women were forced to ask guys out, you’d get asked out and apparently then you wouldn’t have to waste your money or really, expend any energy at all on women.

Women don’t have to ask men out. It has nothing to do with the year. However you can be the change you wish for the world by refusing to ask women out, no one’s forcing you. Unlikely you’ll get the other billions of men to go along with you though.


I know I can't do anything about the fact many women don't have to ask men out - I accept that. But the thing I am entitled to and can control is what I do with my own money. I don't need to foot the bill for a first date at Denny's for a woman I'm not going to have a second date with. Once I'm in a relationship with a woman I would treat her to dinner because I know she'll do something nice for me in return.

I don't need to get billions of other men to go along with me. There are women out there who have no problem paying for their meals on a date and some even insist they do so. Not all women are that hung up on a man's income either- I met my ex when I was on a disability support program and didn't work.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 147
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/5/2015 8:41:19 AM
My family taught me the principle that if someone invites you somewhere, it is implied that they will pay.

Another principle they taught me is that you never go (to said place) empty-handed. You bring something with you, you offer something, or ask what is needed of you. This is more specific of being invited to someone's home, an event, or otherwise. For example: I was invited (along with my mom and uncle) to a talk at my family's friends' house (they are a couple with two grown female children, one who lives at home with them). My uncle bought a high-quality cologne for the man, bought a large high-quality lotion for the woman, my mom made and brought over a whole flan and "anuga perro" which are Dominican cookies, and I brought over a box full of mini-pastries from an exquisite Italian Bakery (carrot cake, red velvet cake, 2 napoleons, 2 nutella eclair, 2 regular eclairs, 3 cannolis, and a strawberry cheesecake).

They were not surprised that we each brought something because they know our family. They did say we didn't have to bring anything, but such is a tradition in our family, you do not go to anyone's home empty-handed. You also don't leave our home empty-handed, something is made for you to take home, whether a bottle of wine, treats, food, etc. They brought up my grandmother who he (the man) visited not long ago as he came back from overseas, and said my grandmother wouldn't let him leave her home unless she made him at least a bag of food to take home (usually fruit from their planted trees, some sweet potatoes, and a bag of rice). He finds it very quirky that all members of my family are conditioned to the same behaviors, my friends find it quirky too.

Anytime my friends have me over for dinner, I ask what they want me to bring over, to which they usually say, "just bring yourself" as they know I'm never going to just do that, lol. They asked for a small appetizer once, I brought them 2 trays of "pastelitos" (cuban pastry, similar to Jamaican beef patties) some with beff, some with cheese, some with chicken. They ate the left over for dinner the next day because I made over 30, as I was not sure how many people were coming. Another time I brought 2 bottles of wine, another time a whole flan, and so forth.

As for dating, such is tricky, I don't know enough about the person to bring them something other than myself, so I aim to spend as much time as they want to spend with me, I don't go anywhere expecting it to end in an hour. I'm not going to offer to pay as giving someone money is tacky (plus if they propose the date, they pay), you give someone something that has value, not necessarily monetary value. I once gave my date a little 3-unit Ferrero Rocher chocolate packet, another I gave a workout dairy (he had said he couldn't find one, and I had one at home), etc. If I know enough information about someone (based on conversation), I'd bring them something I think they will appreciate.

In my culture, dinner dates are the norm for food is love and men would never expect a woman to pay. He will however in due time, expect that you are equally generous with them in the bedroom.

As for "angry daters", negative experiences leave a deeper impression than the positive ones do, unfortunately.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 148
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/5/2015 2:09:34 PM

In my culture, dinner dates are the norm for food is love and men would never expect a woman to pay. He will however in due time, expect that you are equally generous with them in the bedroom.


I would say that the word "expect" would be the killer of the mood. Possibility would be more apt. For instance on a first date, both arrive to the restaurant through their own transportation, but for the second date, the woman asks to be picked up at her place. Or she meets at his place first to them go out to eat together. In my experience most of the time when she asked to be picked up at her place, more than likely a generous exchange of bedroom pleasantries would follow up dinner.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 149
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 5:32:09 AM
In my culture, dinner dates are the norm for food is love and men would never expect a woman to pay.
-------------------------
The person who pays is regarded as being in a superior position than the person being paid for. Ditto for the person doing the inviting. I never expect a woman to pay, but I make judgments about her based on whether or not she offers.

-------------------------
He will however in due time, expect that you are equally generous with them in the bedroom.
------------------------
If I wanted to pay for generosity in the bedroom, I'd do it directly. That would be less expensive, require fewer head games and be a sure thing than going roundabout through dates. However, I don't want to have sex with someone who isn't getting the same thing out of sex that I'm getting out of it. I expect a woman who likes having sex with me to be generous in the bedroom for one reason only: that she likes it.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 150
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 6:02:20 AM

I would say that the word "expect" would be the killer of the mood. Possibility would be more apt.

That's fine.


For instance on a first date, both arrive to the restaurant through their own transportation, but for the second date, the woman asks to be picked up at her place. Or she meets at his place first to them go out to eat together.

I've never asked anyone whom I've ever gone on a date, to pick me up. They are the ones who want to pick me up. At some level, they may be trying to guarantee that they won't be stood up (at the venue), that can't necessarily happen if they are picking you up, unless of course you never come out of your house to embark on such journey.

I had one gentleman pick me up because I was late to the first date, he wanted to ensure no other mishaps took place, plus where we were meeting for second date was a few train stops away. He wanted to make sure he wasn't going to be waiting long for me, lol.


In my experience most of the time when she asked to be picked up at her place, more than likely a generous exchange of bedroom pleasantries would follow up dinner.

I never ask to be picked up, so I kill that expectation each and every time :-P


The person who pays is regarded as being in a superior position than the person being paid for. Ditto for the person doing the inviting. I never expect a woman to pay, but I make judgments about her based on whether or not she offers.

I would think it's the opposite with that analogy, the person forgoing the paying is superior as they are being paid for. The person inviting is not superior, they are simply more eager to spend time with the other one, hence why they are inviting the other, and not the other way around.

It's all good, I make judgments on how surprised he gets when he sees the bill (I eat a lot), if he can handle it and doesn't flinch (like it's gonna cause him not to have a home the next month), we'll get along just fine, lmao


If I wanted to pay for generosity in the bedroom, I'd do it directly. That would be less expensive, require fewer head games and be a sure thing than going roundabout through dates. However, I don't want to have sex with someone who isn't getting the same thing out of sex that I'm getting out of it. I expect a woman who likes having sex with me to be generous in the bedroom for one reason only: that she likes it.

This topic in the forums has been covered numerous times, and it seems that men simply don't understand that women are made different, we don't get off sexually, we get off emotionally. You can be a disaster in the bedroom but if that woman loves you, it'd be the best she ever had, because she can get off just having you by her side. There are very few men out there who are actually good in the bedroom, so I don't want to hear anything about a man expecting a woman to enjoy sex. In my experience, we have the same desire for it, but the execution fails to produce the orgasm desired 9 out of 10 times. We often end up settling for a slight tickle that will never develop into an orgasm. This is why some women need different stimuli, something a bit out of the norm, to get us closer to the off-chance of an orgasm.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 151
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 8:16:54 AM

I would think it's the opposite with that analogy, the person forgoing the paying is superior as they are being paid for. The person inviting is not superior, they are simply more eager to spend time with the other one, hence why they are inviting the other, and not the other way around.


What is this all this talk about being superior? Dating is about finding somebody to spend time with doing things that you both enjoy, not about trying to be superior to the other person. A relationship won't last long if it's based on trying to get an advantage over your partner.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 152
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 8:20:55 AM
^^^^

Did you by any chance read what I was replying to? Or you do selective reading? I was not the one who brought the thought of superiority to the forefront.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 153
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 3:32:13 PM
I would think it's the opposite with that analogy, the person forgoing the paying is superior as they are being paid for.
-----------------------
Really? How often do employees pay to take their bosses out rather than vice versa? How often do interviewees pay for an interviewer's lunch? The person who pays, runs the show.

-----------------------
The person inviting is not superior, they are simply more eager to spend time with the other one, hence why they are inviting the other, and not the other way around.
------------------------
Again, really? What makes you think inviting someone out means I was eager to spend time with her, given that I didn't even know her when I invited her out? Inviting women out meant I did the selecting instead of sitting around waiting to be selected. Having a woman say no is just the price to pay for all of the other women who will say yes. It's the cost of doing business. Better to take the initiative than to wait for someone else to read my mind and take it for me.

-----------------
, so I don't want to hear anything about a man expecting a woman to enjoy sex.
-----------------
Not only do I expect a woman to enjoy sex, I expect her to be good at it, right out of the gate. If she's too inhibited to do that, she would never satisfy me.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 154
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/8/2015 5:39:06 PM

Did you by any chance read what I was replying to? Or you do selective reading? I was not the one who brought the thought of superiority to the forefront.


Yes, I did read what you were replying to, but your's was the last post so I responded to you. Neither the person inviting or the person being invited can be superior in my opinion. Dating is not a competition to see who can be more controlling.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 155
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/9/2015 8:17:08 AM

Really? How often do employees pay to take their bosses out rather than vice versa? How often do interviewees pay for an interviewer's lunch? The person who pays, runs the show.

My bosses take me out to lunch, whenever I go to an interview, they treat me to lunch (if it's a corporate position, or I'm there to present something). I've never taken my bosses out to lunch, I don't need to, I'm the one that make them look good and relevant by the work that I do, so they reward me, not the other way around. They can all pay for whatever they want to pay, my money stays in my pocket. They are the ones that make the big bucks, not I. They even get me Valentine's day chocolate, flowers, wine, gifts for Christmas, etc, when they know I don't celebrate anything. They even get me Easter baskets for my kiddies.

They can totally run the show, I don't mind letting other people shine. The less money comes out of my pocket, the more interest my money makes in the bank.


Again, really? What makes you think inviting someone out means I was eager to spend time with her, given that I didn't even know her when I invited her out? Inviting women out meant I did the selecting instead of sitting around waiting to be selected. Having a woman say no is just the price to pay for all of the other women who will say yes. It's the cost of doing business. Better to take the initiative than to wait for someone else to read my mind and take it for me.

So you took charge and paid, how noble. I don't feel a need to pay anything to show that I can, nor asking anyone out, nor waiting for them to do so, I'm not unhappy being single.


Not only do I expect a woman to enjoy sex, I expect her to be good at it, right out of the gate. If she's too inhibited to do that, she would never satisfy me.

Sounds like an expectation only a man could have. I cannot expect a man to be good at it, ever, much less from the start. Last person who was good at it from the very beginning, I made him my boyfriend, lol. Haven't tried out anyone after that, but I can expect for it to s*ck because they don't know me.


Dating is not a competition to see who can be more controlling.

While I agree, someone has to take the lead, you both can't lead all the time.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 156
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/11/2015 7:21:19 AM

While I agree, someone has to take the lead, you both can't lead all the time.


A relationship isn't about one person leading and another person following. It's about both people walking side by side hand in hand.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 157
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/11/2015 12:40:41 PM
^^^^

A relationship involves two people who get to decide on how they want to deal with each other, so every relationship is different. One does not get to define what a relationship should be about.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 158
view profile
History
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/11/2015 9:12:00 PM
A date that ensues from a first meet, I would expect the guy to foot the bill as he has done the asking.
If he automatically expects me to go dutch, it would be kind of over unless I found him really attractive in other ways. Not however likely.... I could reciprocate at a later date in my own way if the relationship continues, but having to fork out money in a restaurant at the get go with a man who invited me out...... no.. passion killer... .next.......
 Eternitygracesme
Joined: 5/18/2015
Msg: 159
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/12/2015 4:42:38 AM

A relationship involves two people who get to decide on how they want to deal with each other, so every relationship is different. One does not get to define what a relationship should be about.


well stated.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 160
Angry Daters
Posted: 6/12/2015 10:59:39 AM
^^^ Then you should admit that not every man that wants to go Dutch on a first date is a cheapskate. Just as you have the choice to date however you want, so should other people.
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