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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > Not "giving sex away" without the relationship      Home login  
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 ilovetodance1234
Joined: 4/5/2011
Msg: 51
Not giving sex away without the relationshipPage 3 of 38    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38)
abelian:

Words, whether they are spoken or written are always being taken out of context by others. There is proof enough of that in forums. Unfortunately self expression is, many times taken out of context...then there are those who state "if someone is unable to say what he/she means, online dating is probably not a good way to try to meet people" which is preposterous and unrealistc as there are many people who have issues with expressing things.

As for your statement that it is crass to "ask for sex". This guy wasn't asking for it, he was indicating that he "expected" it as we had already had 3/4 dates...as for the remark about "Doesn't matter how dinners, drinks, tickets, etc you buy, whatever....sex is not in payment for that." it is intimated through out the thread that some guys feel they are entitled to payment of sex in return for the efforts (finacially) that they have put out. Actually the guy above who "expected" sex used this as his bargaining tool!

As for your statement "If sex wasn't happening within the time frame I considered reasonable, I'd just stop calling, without giving a reason or saying anything at all. It's crass to actually ask for sex." Not to be rude why wouldn't you have a mature conversation about it with her rather than just take the cowards way out and walk away without a word? Just saying...as if a relationship has gotten to the point of being intimate shouldn't you be communicating with one another at this point? And, why is it in "your" time frame? Isn't a relationship about "both" individuals involved?
 tamim824
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 52
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 4:04:38 AM
Did you ever
think that she might not be into you, and whats wrong with getting to know someone first
 missraven1
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 53
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 4:17:33 AM
For her to phrase it that way, she must have been with men who she felt were taking it.. Doesn't mean she's using sex as a weapon or bargaining chip, if for her, a relationship is a prerequisite for sex to occur. This also benefits the guy as he gets a relationship out of it as well yet so many men see it as a manipulative tool which is telling since what else is left after you remove "relationship" from the equation; it's sex in a non-commital no strings attached basis - an easy lay basically. Her choice of words is pretty abrupt but to the point. Shouldn't be that hard to understand. It seems to be people who want/advocate sex without being 'burdened' by a relationship that find it difficult to comprehend.
 Debisusanne
Joined: 5/3/2011
Msg: 54
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 5:06:19 AM
in my past.. men always try to coerce me into sex before i feel comfortable with the idea.

And THAT Makes it a chore! Uck

No Sex before Monogamy. ...Sadly.. lots of men will pretend monogamy.. then run anyways..
 RIPTIDE59
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 55
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 6:30:04 AM
@ msg 59........I think previous posters have already implied this is just another avenue to "play" someone. Just because a guy has "waited" through your time schedule; does not make him a good man. NOTE: Her attitude is NOT, "I'm waiting for long term" her attitude is "I'm not giving it away for free". I've wheeled and dealed most of my life ; the easiest people to scam are scammers.
 cutegal72
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 56
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 6:37:17 AM
She is entitled to be upfront about what her expectations are(especially since there a lot of men looking just for sex) which should be respected. But to phrase it like that sounds like she has the upper hand and a special priveledge that only men who fall in love and commit to her will "be given" the goodies..Sounds like a bribe. lets face it.. giving it up on the 1st or 20th date will not guarantee a man will commit.Not sure why women think that. If anything he will go elsewhere to get some.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 57
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 8:05:00 AM
Unfortunately self expression is, many times taken out of context...then there are those who state "if someone is unable to say what he/she means, online dating is probably not a good way to try to meet people" which is preposterous and unrealistc as there are many people who have issues with expressing things.

Yeah and a lot of them start threads complaining about their frustration with keeping conversations going. What's preposterous or unrealistic about pointing that out? Are you saying that someone who can't express him/herself in writing or is unwilling to take the time to write clearly should expect that to make no difference even though the sole means of communication one has available initially is a witten message? If so, that would be a weird claim. Arguing that people take things out of contet is not an argument against that. If anything, it just provides another way of determining if someone can read and comprehend what he/she reads.

As for your statement that it is crass to "ask for sex". This guy wasn't asking for it, he was indicating that he "expected" it as we had already had 3/4 dates...

And? Are you unsure if I would consider that crass as well? If so, then rest assured, I would consider that crass. See below.

as for the remark about "Doesn't matter how dinners, drinks, tickets, etc you buy, whatever....sex is not in payment for that." it is intimated through out the thread that some guys feel they are entitled to payment of sex in return for the efforts (finacially) that they have put out. Actually the guy above who "expected" sex used this as his bargaining tool!

I think your imagination is running wild. I didn't see that idea beig intimated by guys throught this thread. Could you provide the message numbers to support that claim?

Not to be rude why wouldn't you have a mature conversation about it with her rather than just take the cowards way out and walk away without a word?

What's to talk about? By not having sex with me and not having a discussion about it, she has clearly been given the opportunity to decide whether or not she wants to have sex with me without being pressured. If she chooses to not have sex with me, I certainly don't want to try to talk her into changing her mind. I see nothing wrong with deciding to not call a woman for another date, for whatever reason I don't want to go on another date. She would be welcome to call and ask if she's really bothered by that, but I'm not going to negotiate for sex, if that's why she wants to talk. I'm not sure ehy you are objecting. I'm perectly happy to let a woman decide whether or not she wants to have sex with me and respect her decision. I would think that would be exactly what you'd like guys to do.

it with her rather than just take the cowards way out and walk away without a word?

I see nothing cowardly about it. If I go out on a few of dates with a woman and I don't call her again, why should I have an ``adult conversation'' about it? If she liked me enough for that to be a big deal, she would have liked me enough to have sex with me.

Just saying...as if a relationship has gotten to the point of being intimate shouldn't you be communicating with one another at this point?

Unless I had sex with a woman, we weren't in a relationship.

And, why is it in "your" time frame?

That's like me asking why I should be allowed to have preferences and set criteria for the women I date. The answer is because I do have preferences and I do set criiteria that I expect women to meet if they want to date me - just like everyone else does. If a woman didn't like my time frame, she didn't have to date me. If she was serious about adhering to her time frame, she wouldn't want to date me. However, in 37 years of dating, (including two women who had no sexual experience before dating me), that problem has never come up. So far, I haven't run into a woman who wanted to wait long enough to come anywhere close to running out of time.

Isn't a relationship about "both" individuals involved?

As I mentioned above, if we haven't had sex, we aren't in a relationship.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 58
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 12:44:59 PM
lie to her about a future, it is what she expects to hear, she will be in your bed by date two, date three she brings the handcuffs. the not giving it away claim..... she already has, many many times.


That's what I figure too; or it would be a non-issue.

I've never given sex away; I usually trade with a girl I am attracted to in most ways.

Im not a slag.. i wont sleep with you


So any women that says this, in yourn mind, will not be giving me sex.

What is a slag btw?

A single lady with multiple kids from multiple people who doesnt sleep with you; a slag or not?
 LinuxD
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 59
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History
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 1:00:40 PM
Well, seeings as she had no problem articulating that you might as well ask her to make out her full laundry list of what she expects and those things you should not expect. Then when it's presented look it over.

I've a feeling it'd be going in the circular file basket..... quickly
 bethesdafoodie
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 60
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 1:39:44 PM

I like sex but I like being respected and in a relationship more, now I will always be wondering what would of happened if I had not had sex with this guy.


I like relationships but I like respecting my wallet more, now I will always be wondering what would of happened if I hadn't asked her to go halfsies on the first date....

Oh man, it cuts both ways, or at least it should in theory.

What baffles me is when someone doesn't want sex, wants a relationship, wants you to pay for all their meals, and then wants to be "friends" with a guy.

That's a whole lot of wanting and very little giving!

Not that I won't let the training go to waste, I know how to fetch, pay for the shots, and roll over like a good trained obedient male.

Relationships are like consumers complaining about corporations using modern day slavery and price gouging.... while they're in line for the latest Iphone from a company with over 100 BILLION dollars in cash.

It's all about a give-take relationship and negotiating so that you end up doing most of the taking.
 Sun Leo
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 61
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History
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:00:07 PM
OP all she done now is made it so you look at her personaly instead of sexualy disare. I dont think using something on your partner a smart idea. could you imange if i had a large amount of money and cut them off because they did something i didnt like.
 Sun Leo
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 62
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History
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:06:15 PM

She's weeding out the playas.



it make her sound like she get play easy and will be easy to fool when in reationship.
 semi_sane_jane
Joined: 3/10/2011
Msg: 63
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:21:43 PM

My point is this woman is trying to control the relationship and turn it into a profitable situation for herself.
"Not giving sex away without the relationship" would indicate that this woman would simply like to make sure "the relationship" exists before becoming intimate, nothing more.

As usual, Landra is spot on in post 21. The question asked has been answered intelligently, diplomatically, and entirely.

In fact, I'm a little surprised at the spin that was put on the question in the first place. A mature intelligent man who has made any genuine effort to understand women is certainly aware that women typically consider an authentic, mutual emotional connection to be an inseperable component of the intimacy that creates the desire for sex. Without that, something is missing that prevents that desire from being possible.

It's the exact same concept that explains why a man could meet a woman who has every quality he could ever possibly desire in a partner, but her physical appearance is so unappealing that he will never have any desire to have sex with her. It has nothing to do with money. She could spend a million dollars taking him out on dates, that desire would still never be there, because a necessary facet of what creates HIS desire would still be missing.

The "investment" she's looking for is an emotional one, that indicates you value her as a person, and consider her an important part of your life, as opposed to an interchangable sex partner, because that's not what she's looking for.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 64
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:25:51 PM
She views sex as a commodity and she's using to bargain you into a relationship. Consider that she will always view it that way, and that you will always owe her something in return for the sex she gives to you.
 RIPTIDE59
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 65
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:33:11 PM
@msg 69: That's pretty much the basic arguement. I have a pretty good friend; 50, never married. Never found her Dr. . .... Life is short. Take a leap of faith.
Good call; Paderic.
 bethesdafoodie
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 66
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:41:06 PM

"Not giving sex away without the relationship" would indicate that this woman would simply like to make sure "the relationship" exists before becoming intimate, nothing more.


And I'd love to make sure "the relationship" exists before spending money, but fill your left hand with wishes and your right hand with shit and see which one gets filled quicker.

Choosing when to become intimate is a decision both partners decide to make, and given the rate of divorce; a relationship isn't guaranteed to last.

I'm all for a long term relationship, but things like the OP says send up a red flag that she'll play games in a relationship; and I don't like to play a game when I know I'll beat them mercilessly and then regret it later, it's the same reason I don't play air hockey on a date, there is no way in hell I'm going to lose and someone is going to go home crying with a icepack on her eye(True story....).

But hey, we all love honesty so be upfront so that neither side goes home crying.
 ilovetodance1234
Joined: 4/5/2011
Msg: 67
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/2/2012 6:32:40 PM
abelian:
" Are you saying that someone who can't express him/herself in writing or is unwilling to take the time to write clearly should expect that to make no difference even though the sole means of communication one has available initially is a witten message?"

Actually I was responding to what you said...so you tell me?

We agree :) about the crassness of the fellow "expecting " sex...(wow can you believe that)
"Actually the guy above who "expected" sex used this as his bargaining tool!" {no imagination necessary..the guy clearly stated he felt sex was his due as he dropped a couple of bucks on me...and as for the thread re-read it...pay attention to how many men are whining about what they spend on women and THEIR expectations, blah, blah, blah....

You missed the point intimacy should be around the time frame of both individuals involved...not around yours, nor hers...if some men actually took the time to build a relationship (not 3 or 4 dates) to actually get to know a woman, they would instinctively know when you are BOTH ready to move the relationship to the next level. If a man were so shallow that he would walk away without a word because the relationship hadn't moved to the next level within his time frame, I say keep on walking and don't let the door hit you on the way out....buh bye.

"If she liked me enough for that to be a big deal, she would have liked me enough to have sex with me. "

I think the key word is "like", it seems like all a guy has to do is "LIKE" you to want to have sex with you....and we women actually want to have deeper feelings to move it to that level.

Anyway if a guy is moving faster than me (and most do) then he can choose to either wait for me and my emotions to catch up with him or he can move on which is fine with me.
 ITWYLD
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 68
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/7/2012 8:05:05 PM
I was faced with a similar situation this evening. We went on one date that went very well over the weekend and have been texting quite frequently since then.

He has made several attempts/invites for me to come over to his place for dinner and/or a movie, even though he knows that I am looking for a committed long term relationship.

I finally got tired of his game tonight and sent him this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Him: Thought I'd invite you for a movie.

Me: Awe....that's sweet! Short notice only works for my dedicated mate.......

Him: Being comfortable and wanting to spend time with someone is a good enough excuse.

Me: Invite me out to a public place, with ample notice, and perhaps my answer will be different. Oh, and BTW.....I REALLY don't have sex without being in a committed and exclusive relationship. ;)

Him: Not sure where that came from but......ok.......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL! Are you freakin kidding me??????????

So, is this a better way to handle the OP's situation?
 Ashburnguy99
Joined: 1/16/2012
Msg: 69
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 7:28:33 AM

Him: Thought I'd invite you for a movie.

Me: Awe....that's sweet! Short notice only works for my dedicated mate.......

Him: Being comfortable and wanting to spend time with someone is a good enough excuse.

Me: Invite me out to a public place, with ample notice, and perhaps my answer will be different. Oh, and BTW.....I REALLY don't have sex without being in a committed and exclusive relationship. ;)

Him: Not sure where that came from but......ok.......


Who's playing games here? You obviously want to see him, but short notice only works if you're in a committed relationship. Huh? What has one got to do with the other. If two people are free, and would like to see each other, then what's the problem, even on short notice. Is it the "I can't seem too available" game. or is it the "I can't seem too desparate" game? Either way, it's a game. I know that's the game, but I've never understood it.

As far as him inviting you to his place.....instead of jumping to the conclusion immediately that he wants sex (and telling him so), wouldn't a more reasonable response have been "We just met, so I'm not comfortable going over to your place, but I would like to see you. How about dinner or a move out somewhere?" You want a committed LTR, but it has to start somewhere. You can't go from first date to LTR. Laying out your LTR demands (no short notice dates, no going over to your place, no sex) is a sure way to crush a budding relationship. Nothing wrong at all with any of those things, and I'm sure many/most women feel the same way, but if you feel the need to articulate them after the first date, then this is probably not the guy for you. You're clearly feeling the vibe that he's just trying to get in your pants, but my point is that not all men are like that.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 70
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 10:07:46 AM
Him: Thought I'd invite you for a movie.Me: Awe....that's sweet! Short notice only works for my dedicated mate.......


My reply would be something to the effect of: "Well; since you're so wierd and make everything sound so scientific and logical; perhaps I will contact you when I require one hour of shagging after 45 minutes of dinner"

Short notice only works for my dedicated mate


Who in the world talks like that!?

Invite me out to a public place, with ample notice, and perhaps my answer will be different.


Now THAT should have been the reply. Hell; why not invite HIM out to a public place, and take the bull by the horns?

wouldn't a more reasonable response have been "We just met, so I'm not comfortable going over to your place, but I would like to see you. How about dinner or a move out somewhere?"


You would think!!

Talk about assumed bad intention, and over articulated thought process. The replies make it sound like you are so focused on the sex part of things that you cannot even function, or even set up, a normal functional date.
 mopar_runner
Joined: 9/11/2011
Msg: 71
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 10:21:49 AM
OP, the first red flag that should go up is a woman using the dreaded F word. Yup, that one--friends!

It is well established via these forums that a woman knows within 13.653 nano-seconds whether she will ever sleep with a man. If her determination is yes, then a man can only move to the no list. There is no possibility to move from the no to the yes list. "Friends" is code for, "You can woo me all you like, but you're never gettin' any of this, Jack."

As soon as she starts in on the friends mantra, just bail out. I wish I had, it would have saved several months of being led along...
 Pinayto
Joined: 2/5/2011
Msg: 72
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 10:26:46 AM
OP it means i refuse to get STD.....wut? ya i said it!
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 73
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 10:44:10 AM

lookinglifetime
OP it means i refuse to get STD.....wut? ya i said it!

Yeah go ahead and . Like a STR, LTR,or Marriage is some guarantee that you won't get a STD. Tell that to those who contracted HIV from their partner. Yep, that's some 100% guarantee there. Keep like you have all the answers.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 74
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 11:33:50 AM
pay attention to how many men are whining about what they spend on women and THEIR expectations, blah, blah, blah....

Who cares? Just pay for your dates and then no one can whine about that. After a few dates, I'd certainly wonder why a woman was accepting dates with me if she didn't indicate she wanted to have sex with me, so I certainly would stop asking rather than whine about it. Just because guys are complaining about spending money for dates doesn't mean they are expecting sex because theuy are paying for dates. They could just as easily be not wanting to pay for dates with a woman when they don't see it going anywhere. Sex is just how a guy knows it's going somewhere. If a woman wanted to ask me out repeatedly on her dime and not have sex with me, that would have been ok, if I had nothing better to do.

You missed the point intimacy should be around the time frame of both individuals involved...not around yours, nor hers...

What you really mean is that the timetable ought to be yours, since I doubt you're willing to have sex sooner in order to compromise.

If a man were so shallow that he would walk away without a word because the relationship hadn't moved to the next level within his time frame, I say keep on walking and don't let the door hit you on the way out....buh bye.

As far as I was concerned, there was no relationship until I had sex with a woman and I didn't owe her any explanation for why I wasn't interested in another date with her. For that matter, as long as I am still having to ask for a date, I wouldn't owe a woman any explanation for not asking her out for another date. Until I have sex with a woman, there is no relationship and I owe her nothing. If you think that's shallow, it's only because you're frustrated with guys who won't bend to accomodate you and rationalizing it is easier than thinking there are worthwhile men who wouldn't date you because they expect sex sooner than you do. The fact is, everone has preferences and none are any shallower than any others.

and we women actually want to have deeper feelings to move it to that level.

I find that funny, given how many women have said that, yet been ready and willing to have sex long before they could have those ``deeper feelings'' (and I've never asked or pushed for it). So far, women have always been ready for sex in less time than I'd have been willing to wait, even though I that isn't all that long. Regardless of what women (or anyone else) says or will admit to, most people will have sex rather quickly (as in within a few dates).
 platypus_man
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 75
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History
Not giving sex away without the relationship
Posted: 2/8/2012 5:55:18 PM

Seriously; what does "not "giving sex away" without the relationship" mean in its entirity? Ive never heard that before

You must have been living in a cave for the past few decades. Most women think of sex as something they 'give' in return for something; love, money, whatever.
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