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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal      Home login  
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 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 101
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful BetrayalPage 5 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

Planned Parenthood is a EUGENICS corporation.


Yes--the spirit of Margaret Sanger lives on. Eugenics was a major interest of the American progressives--the forbears of people today who call themselves "liberals"--from the late 1800's on. Right up there with temperance and women's suffrage. Their writings attracted a lot of attention in Germany, where in the early 1900's, just like here, eugenics became one of those bright, modern ideas forward-thinking people liked to discuss.

But in the late 1930's and early 1940's, some very large-scale experiments in improving the breed took place in Germany--with unfortunate results. Instead of just preventing unwanted people from coming into the world, they set out to eliminate ones who were already here. And that gave eugenics such a bad name that now, people who once might have supported it have chosen to support abortion and contraception instead.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 102
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 10:51:45 AM

people who once might have supported it have chosen to support abortion and contraception instead.


That's a stretch...it could also be said that people who supported it now support pro-life and the vatican's position on contraception...I mean what better way to cleanse the white race and give America back to whom it belongs...wink wink.


some very large-scale experiments in improving the breed took place in Germany


I find it interesting that you've chosen to word this this way...hmmmm.


the forbears of people today who call themselves "liberals


Was Churchill a liberal???

Early in its history eugenics was seen by many as having a positive potential for society. Initial supporters included Theodore Roosevelt, George Bernard Shaw, Winston Churchill, and Alexander Graham Bell. The concepts gained wide-spread acceptance and were even taught in classrooms and supported by the American Medical Association.
http://feministsforchoice.com/lets-chat-margaret-sanger-and-eugenics.htm

But, in true fashion...we've been taken off topic-though not by the constitution...so...

WTF does eugenics have to do with Komen removing and putting back funding to PP???
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 103
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 10:58:09 AM
The US military industrial complex has the best eugenics program on the planet as the leading arms seller, champion of land mines and wmds, and numerous wars where tens of millions of people were exposed to depleted uranium poisoning. No outcry from the "pro-life" crowd when tens of millions are poisoned in a non-consensual manner by our eugenics program. No outcry from the "prolife" crowd about the 2nd place eugenics champ, Monsanto, spreading their poison around the world.

No one in the US is forcing people to go to planned parenthood, have abortions, take birth control, have surgery. On the other hand the Theocrats are in favor of forcing objects up women's vaginas, legislating morality, and taking away hard fought rights.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 104
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 11:16:03 AM
legislating morality,


Many of our laws--and most of our criminal laws--are based on moral beliefs held by the majority in each state. Neither that fact nor the fact those moral beliefs usually derive from religious tenets makes a law unconstitutional.

and taking away hard fought rights.

So what? The state and federal governments are constantly taking away part or all of lots of people's various rights to liberty and property. Occasionally, they even take away someone's right to life. As long as they follow due process in taking those rights away, they're not doing anything unconstitutional.


I mean what better way to cleanse the white race and give America back to whom it belongs...wink wink.


Planned Parenthood and other organizations like it focused a lot of their attention on preventing births by black women. They were open about controlling the number of black children born into poverty.

I've found that the people who talk most about race prejudice are often most likely to harbor it themselves. Usually they hide it, but sometimes a disparaging remark about a black person will slip out. Many of these people save their prejudiced remarks for black conservatives.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 105
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 11:25:21 AM

So what? The state and federal governments are constantly taking away part or all of lots of people's various rights to liberty and property. Occasionally, they even take away someone's right to life. As long as they follow due process in taking those rights away, they're not doing anything unconstitutional.


So, you're advocating for the government to intrude into people's daily lives as long as it's constitutional?...now that's a switch...

Yanno, something I just read attacked Cecile Richards for making a salary of $400,000...yet, there seems to be no problem with Nancy Brinker making the same salary as head of Komen...odd.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 106
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 12:02:44 PM


So, you're advocating for the government to intrude into people's daily lives as long as it's constitutional?...now that's a switch...


I'm sure he'll clarify for himself, but that's not a switch at all from what I've read. He has consistently held constitutionality above all else on every topic. Mere matters of right and wrong are nothing the federal government should trouble their little heads over. All they should do is exactly what his personal interpretation of the Constitution tells them to do, no more, no less. Never mind adhering to principles of the Constitution while adapting policies and practices to an ever changing world and nation. Never mind what the Supreme Court thinks. What do they know? They're just another federal government branch who sometimes accurately interprets the Constitution and often doesn't.

I've no doubt we're about to read essentially the same thing rephrased in his own words, but I didn't find that statement at all inconsistent with all he's posted before.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 107
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 12:56:56 PM
You are correct that some interpret the constitution quite personally, and often wrongly SC judges included. The original constitution was full of flaws and neglected the rights of the majority of people in the land. Even with the Ammendments, it still lacks full and equal protection and rights for many. It is indeed a soul-less document in many regards and those who interpret it for their own gains and agenda re-enforce that. The constitution as the far right SC hero, Scalia calls it..."just words on paper."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaqc0CieXoU&feature=youtu.be

There is nothing in the ammended Constitution to prohibit women's personal beliefs, choices, and protections against mandatory probes up their reproductive tracts.

There has been a long tradition of resentment of minorities' and women's equality since those rights have been codified. The attempt to use the constitution to justify repeal of those basic rights is desparate and insincere in what the real agenda is.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 108
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 2:52:20 PM
If nothing else I think the founding fathers wanted to make sure that there would always be room for vigorous debate in our government and about our government. In that they certainly have succeeded.

I'm always skeptical of anyone who tries to take what they wrote centuries ago as precise guidance for the issues we face today. Just as I'm skeptical of anyone's spiritual practice providing hard and fast rules that ALL should abide by on personal decisions like contraception and abortion.

Extremism is never a good thing to leave unchallenged. Certainly many common perspectives today were once viewed as extreme, but they persevered BECAUSE they survived challenges, not because they weren't challenged at all.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 109
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 10:47:44 PM

He has consistently held constitutionality above all else on every topic.


Not quite ALL else. But the Constitution is law, and I believe in the rule of law.


Mere matters of right and wrong are nothing the federal government should trouble their little heads over.


No one gets to make the U.S. government do whatever he and his friends happen to think is morally right. The laws represent the will of a majority, as best we can determine it.


All they should do is exactly what his personal interpretation of the Constitution tells them to do, no more, no less.


What should I do--support interpretations of the Constitution that I believe are mistaken? I'll let other people argue for their own interpretations.


Never mind adhering to principles of the Constitution while adapting policies and practices to an ever changing world and nation.


That sounds fancy, but what does it mean? Stick to the agreement, but only when you feel like it? The Constitution devotes the whole of Article V to the procedures for adapting it to changing conditions--by a process known as amendment.

If the men who wrote the Constitution and the people who ratified it had meant for courts to bypass the amendment process by fiddling this or that part of it to make it mean whatever suited the popular mood at the time, they could easily have said so. They didn't--and doing that is an abuse of power.


They're just another federal government branch who sometimes accurately interprets the Constitution and often doesn't.


That's pretty much what each justice is saying about some or all of the other justices in each decision, except for the few that are unanimous. Whoever dissents in a case obviously believes the majority misinterpreted the Constitution in one or more ways.
Sometimes I agree with the majority, and sometimes with the dissenters. I've never thought that was unusual at all.

And what I said about depriving people of liberty, property, or even life being part of the everyday business of government is about as controversial as saying the sun rises every day. What else do you think is happening when judges or juries apply the law and decide cases? The Due Process Clause openly recognizes the right of government to deprive people of life, liberty, and property. It just says it can't do those things without due process of law.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 110
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/15/2012 11:05:38 PM
^^^^^^^^^^


I've no doubt we're about to read essentially the same thing rephrased in his own words


Wow, for once I was less wordy than the other guy.....and right, no less. Time to cash in my chips and savor the moment.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 111
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 12:29:32 AM
Yup...that was predictable. "Due Process" can be interpreted by the tyrnanny of the majority to deprive women of liberty.

Taking it to it's next logical step, Santorum believes that it is in our interests to confine the act of sex. Due process will apply in applying Christian Sharia Law.

"One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is I think the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea… It’s not okay because it’s a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be within marriage, for purposes that are, yes, conjugal… but also procreative.

That’s the perfect way that a sexual union should happen. We take any part of that out, we diminish the act. And if you can take one part out that’s not for purposes of procreation, that’s not one of the reasons, then you diminish this very special bond between men and women, so why can’t you take other parts of that out? And all of a sudden, it becomes deconstructed to the point where it’s simply pleasure....."
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/15/rick-santorum-wants-you-to-have-only-special-sex-video/
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 112
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 4:50:02 AM
I can see why some people have a problem with that..Personal responsibility is not high on the list for most Liberals...

Just Curious but what part of that do you disagree with?

You think that contraception and abortion should be used to enable irresponsible sexual behavior?

You think sex should be meaningless?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 113
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 4:58:12 AM

You think sex should be meaningless?


Are you trying to force morality on the general public...that is quite hypocritical.
 frijolera_ninja
Joined: 4/11/2011
Msg: 114
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 5:54:43 AM
morality = responsibility?
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 115
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 6:05:44 AM
I would say that personal responsibility is a big problem with way too many individuals. In my experience, it's all people, not just liberals. So for a person to seek birth control would be an example of taking personal responsibility. To do nothing and risk pregnancy is the problem.

I've said it before and it bears repeating. Planned Parenthood is one of the very few places that women can obtain birth control pills at a reasonable price. So for all the females out there who do not have health insurance, it is often the only choice. To suggest abstinance, is a joke. Assisting women with obtaining the pill doesn't condone promiscuity. That's silly. People in committed relationships need birth control too.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 116
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 6:06:39 AM

You think sex should be meaningless?


You think the only meaning of sex is reproduction? You don't believe in making love as an integral part of a meaningful relationship? Is the only meaning of two people making a life together to make more people? You presume to dictate meaning to every other human being?

All sorts of stereotyping conservative thought could be inferred, but I no more believe all conservatives care about is imposing their will on everyone else than I do that liberals don't take personal responsibility.

In fact I know plenty of liberals who take enough personal responsibility for their acts of intimacy to not EVER want to create an unwanted pregnancy, who personally refuse most public assistance while cherishing its value for others, who take personal responsibility for their impacts on others and the planet, and who personally find no value in condemning broad categories of people in order to justify their own view of the world.

I am one.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 117
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Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 6:27:13 AM
Given "Blue" states with very few exceptions unequivocally contribute MORE to the treasury per-capita than they take out while "Red" states with few exceptions contribute LESS to the treasury per-capita than they take out I have always found it quite enlightening that "conservatives" think "liberals" are proponents of irresponsibility.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 118
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 10:27:27 AM
How typically partisan of the Republicans. Ask a question but don't allow any answers that may contradict your already made up mind.


Representative Issa Bars Witness from Testifying at Congressional Hearing

Representative Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) and Representative Elijah Cummings (D-MD), Ranking Member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, each issued letters to Representative Darrell Issa (R-CA), Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, following his refusal to allow a minority witness to testify at a Congressional hearing: "Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State. Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?" Ranking Member Cummings wanted to allow Sandra Fluke, a Georgetown Law School student, to testify at the hearing regarding the Obama Administration's recent ruling on contraception coverage under the preventive care package of the Affordable Care Act; however Representative Issa refused the request, stating that the hearing "is not about reproductive rights and contraception." (ORly?-Blade)

Representative Maloney criticized Issa's decision in her letter: "What I want to know is, where are the women? I look at this panel, and I don't see one single individual representing the tens of millions of women across the country who want and need insurance coverage for basic preventive health care services, including family planning...Of course this hearing is about rights-contraception and birth control. It's about the fact that women want to have access to basic health services [and] family planning through their insurance plan."

Representative Cummings also stated, "Rather than inviting witnesses on both sides of this issue to engage in a reasoned and balanced discussion, you have constructed one of the most one-sided hearings I have ever seen, stacking it only with witnesses who agree with your position. Earlier this week, you informed Committee Members that you had invited nine witnesses, including officials from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and other religious entities that oppose the accommodation announced last week by the Administration to allow women employees of religiously-affiliated organizations such as hospitals and universities to obtain coverage for contraceptive services through their insurance companies. You did not invite officials from the Catholic Health Association, Catholic Charities USA, Catholics United or a host of other Catholic groups that praised the White House."

http://www.msmagazine.com/news/uswirestory.asp?ID=13471

BTW Speaker Boehnor, Where are the Jobs you promised? ALL the GOP has done since gaining power is attack women, unions, gays and the middle and lower class while doing all for the rich.

I say it again. Any woman, ethnic, non "Christian" or member of the LGBT community who self identifies as Republican, what the hell are you thinking? This is a party of rich white men of power, and none of you are even vaguely welcome.

Using force, and yes for the last damn time coersion is FORCE, to stick a device into a womans vagina to try and make her feel guilty for having a LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE is RAPE, and should be treated as such. All those right wing scum who call for the murder of doctors who perfom abortion, a legal medical procedure, would defend the hell out of any doctor that would do this, and it's disgraceful.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 119
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 2/16/2012 7:56:45 PM


You think sex should be meaningless?

You think the only meaning of sex is reproduction?


WVW...you're replying to a guy that is 46, divorce, had a relationship that lasted 10 years or more, no kids, but wouldn't rule them out in the future...and doesn't believe in contraceptives and abortion...I'd be backin up his bets at the casino-cause he's either the luckiest man in the world-or a hypocrite.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 120
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 4:38:13 AM
Women in Texas Losing Options for Health Care in Abortion Fight

By PAM BELLUCK and EMILY RAMSHAW


Leticia Parra, a mother of five scraping by on income from her husband’s sporadic construction jobs, relied on the Planned Parenthood clinic in San Carlos, an impoverished town in South Texas, for breast cancer screenings, free birth control pills and pap smears for cervical cancer.

But the clinic closed in October, along with more than a dozen others in the state, after financing for women’s health was slashed by two-thirds by the Republican-controlled Legislature.

The cuts, which left many low-income women with inconvenient or costly options, grew out of the effort to eliminate state support for Planned Parenthood. Although the cuts also forced clinics that were not affiliated with the agency to close — and none of them, even the ones run by Planned Parenthood, performed abortions — supporters of the cutbacks said they were motivated by the fight against abortion.

Now, the same sentiment is likely to lead to a shutdown next week of another significant source of reproductive health care: the Medicaid Women’s Health Program, which serves 130,000 women with grants to many clinics, including those run by Planned Parenthood. Gov. Rick Perry and Republican lawmakers have said they would forgo the $35 million in federal money that finances the women’s health program in order to keep Planned Parenthood from getting any of it.

Although Texas already bars clinics that take such money from performing abortions, the new law is intended to prevent any state money from benefiting Planned Parenthood. “Planned Parenthoods across the country provide abortions, are affiliated with abortion providers, or refer women to abortion providers,” said Lucy Nashed, a spokeswoman for Mr. Perry.

Wayne Christian, a Republican state representative said, “I don’t think anybody is against providing health care for women. What we’re opposed to are abortions.” He added, “Planned Parenthood is the main organization that does abortions. So we kind of blend being anti-abortion with being anti-Planned Parenthood.”

The situation in Texas is mirrored in several other states that have tried to eliminate various methods of financing Planned Parenthood.

Abortion also undergirds the Republican presidential candidates’ opposition to federal financing for Planned Parenthood, a private nonprofit group that offers a variety of reproductive health services and is the nation’s largest provider of abortions. And critics of contraception coverage under the new federal health care law say that some birth control methods are essentially abortion drugs, an assertion scientists largely dispute.

As the case in Texas illustrates, such battles are affecting broader women’s health services. Some women have lost the only nearby clinic providing routine care.

Nationally, the newest target is Title X, the main federal family planning program. All four Republican presidential candidates support eliminating Title X, which was created in 1970 with Republican support from President Nixon and the elder George Bush, then a congressman.

Like other federal financing, Title X does not pay for abortions. Only some of it covers birth control. Title X also provides money for cervical and breast cancer screening, testing for H.I.V. and other sexually transmitted diseases, adolescent abstinence counseling, infertility counseling and other services.

Planned Parenthood receives about a quarter of Title X’s $300 million budget and sees about a third of Title X patients. The remaining money goes to clinics, community health centers, hospitals and state agencies.

Mitt Romney’s fiscal plan proposes eliminating Title X because it “subsidizes family planning programs that benefit abortion groups like Planned Parenthood.”

Rick Santorum, in a recent debate, acknowledged, to boos, that in Congress he voted for appropriations bills that included Title X money. He pledged to rectify that if elected, saying, “I’ve always opposed Title X funding.”

President Obama supports Title X, which serves five million low-income people.

“People think Planned Parenthood equals family planning the way Kleenex equals tissue, and it’s not true,” said Clare Coleman, president of the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization of family planning providers. Title X supports many other providers, she said: “In a lot of states there is no state money for family planning. So Title X is the ballgame.”

A 2009 Congressional Research Service report cited federal estimates that Title X helps prevent nearly a million unintended pregnancies annually. Reproductive health experts say that saves money, that every dollar spent on family planning saves about $4 in maternity and infant care.

Some experts also say the financing helps prevent about 400,000 abortions annually. Opponents of Title X and government financing of family planning say these effects are exaggerated.

“Eliminating Title X would not outlaw contraception,” said a spokesman for Ron Paul. “People would simply have to pay for contraceptives with their own money or money donated by private sources.”

The battle intensified in February when the House of Representatives voted to eliminate Title X and eliminate federal financing for Planned Parenthood. The Senate defeated the bill, but the issue remains alive.

Several state legislatures recently voted to stop some Planned Parenthood financing: Title X money in Kansas and North Carolina, Medicaid in Indiana, other family planning and breast cancer screening funds in Wisconsin. In three of the states, judges blocked the laws, at least temporarily, ruling that Planned Parenthood had been illegally excluded even if it was not named. (Wisconsin’s cuts have not been challenged in court.)

New Hampshire canceled a state contract with Planned Parenthood last year, but the federal government awarded the organization a similar contract. Recently, the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted to essentially strip Planned Parenthood of family planning money by creating a tiered system in which Planned Parenthood and other women’s clinics could receive financing only in the unlikely possibility that the state could not give it to government-run clinics or to hospitals. The Senate has not voted on the bill.

Texas enacted a similar tiered system and also sliced its two-year family planning budget from $111 million to $38 million, cuts that the nonpartisan state Legislative Budget Board estimated would eliminate services for nearly 284,000 women, lead to 20,500 additional births and cost Medicaid about $230 million. The board had recommended expanding family planning as a way of saving money.

Now, the Medicaid-financed Women’s Health Program is in jeopardy. Texas signed regulations prohibiting clinics affiliated with groups that provide abortions from receiving funds, even though the clinics do not perform abortions themselves. The federal government says excluding qualified providers in this way is illegal, requiring it to withhold $35 million — about 90 percent of the program’s financing — if the regulations, which take effect on Wednesday, are not rescinded.

That would effectively end the program, increasing the number of women without services to about 400,000. Already, Planned Parenthood of Hidalgo County, which is on the Texas-Mexico border, has closed four of eight clinics, including the one in San Carlos, and trimmed services.

The closest clinic to San Carlos is 16 miles away in Edinburg. There, a receptionist informs callers not to expect appointments soon. Wait times have grown to up to four weeks.

Many San Carlos patients struggle to reach Edinburg from their homes in impoverished neighborhoods called colonias. Maria Romero, a housecleaner with four children, who had a lump in her breast discovered at the San Carlos clinic, has no way to get there.

Ms. Parra, 33, the mother of five, managed to borrow a car to get to Edinburg after a pap smear at the San Carlos clinic indicated she might have cervical cancer. Further tests showed she was cancer-free.

Both women worry about getting birth control pills; the clinic may now have to charge them up to $20 for a month’s supply.

“I will have to go without,” Ms. Parra said as she left an English class at a community center and was walking to pick up her two youngest children from a Head Start program. “If I get pregnant again, God forbid.”


Emily Ramshaw writes for The Texas Tribune, which produces a twice-weekly local section in the Texas editions of The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us/texas-womens-clinics-retreat-as-finances-are-cut.html?_r=1&em=&exprod=myyahoo&pagewanted=print
 irishlab33
Joined: 1/16/2011
Msg: 121
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:14:27 AM

Women in Texas Losing Options for Health Care in Abortion Fight


Thanks for posting this.

Personally, I'm against abortion. Not becasue I'm against women's rights, but because I believe life begins at conception.

If the people of Texas feel that this is the way for them to stop abortions in their state, then that's their right. Right?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 122
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:21:04 AM

Personally, I'm against abortion. Not becasue I'm against women's rights, but because I believe life begins at conception.

If you feel that your beliefs should be forced on others then you are against others rights.

It is your "personal" choice to make and only that.

You do not have the right to decide for others, unless you believe that the government should be telling everyone what to do.
 irishlab33
Joined: 1/16/2011
Msg: 123
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:46:51 AM

If you feel that your beliefs should be forced on others then you are against others rights.

It is your "personal" choice to make and only that.

You do not have the right to decide for others, unless you believe that the government should be telling everyone what to do.


Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

You don't get to take half of my quote, and spin it to fit your argument.

The most important part of my quote was the part about life beginning at conception. I believe that they (the unborn, some of "the others") should get a say in whether they die or not.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 124
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 6:24:30 AM

The most important part of my quote was the part about life beginning at conception. I believe that they (the unborn, some of "the others") should get a say in whether they die or not.

The key word in your quote is the word "believe".

You are free to "believe" what ever you want, but those rights end there.

You do not have the right to enforce those beliefs on others.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 125
Defunding Planned Parenthood-A Painful Betrayal
Posted: 3/9/2012 6:37:13 AM
Right, especially those in the womb unable to defend themselves.......
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