Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 54
Equal Education for ALL in the US?Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Thank you halftime...your reply is much nicer than the one that came to my mind.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 55
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/12/2012 3:31:44 PM

Consider, 5% of Whites have an IQ of 75 or less.

22% of Blacks,

18% of hispanics

Our foreign economic competitors are not saddled with such deficits.


Consider this:

IQ tests are biased. Most do not measure raw intelligence but knowledge. Which types of tests measured the intelligence of whites, blacks, and Hispanics? If it is a traditional test, of course minorities are going to do worse because the test is geared toward a white, mainstream cultures.

I have taken IQ tests and the questions ask such things as who wrote Romeo and Juliet! This has NOTHING to do with intelligence but, again, knowledge. I also have taken the GRE twice: the first time, I bombed the logic part. The second time, I aced it because the type of questions had changed. I didn't get smarter: the test measured logic in a different manner.

In more culturally homogenous countries (Japan comes to mind), of course the overall IQ scores are going to be higher and more standardized because of the common cultural bonds.

There are also nine types of intelligence: a standardized IQ test is not going to measure all nine. A person can be a whiz at fixing a car but horrible in fine arts.

The concepts of IQ and intelligence needs to be overhauled.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 56
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/12/2012 3:38:06 PM
In education, it has been overhauled. You are absolutely right, the majority of educators are far more influenced by Gardiner's multiple intelligences, and I know of few people in academia that lend any credence to IQ tests. There is also the theory of learning styles to take into account when it comes to those who succeed in the classroom.
Excellent points Gwen!
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 57
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/12/2012 4:01:07 PM
and most of the great intellects [belong to blacks] as well. It is lingering racism that prevents black men and women from dominating acadame,


What evidence is there for those claims? Or maybe they are just your conjecture. If you're right, there should have been a disproportionate number of great intellects throughout Africa for several thousand years, at least. The Egyptians' accomplishments should have been just one bright star in a constellation of them. Has it also been racism throughout Africa which has prevented these great black intellects from achieving all sorts of wonders that would have left the rest of the world far behind? If so, what was the source of that racism thousands of years ago?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 58
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/12/2012 5:46:54 PM
^^^^^Bet most of the girls were blondes.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 59
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/13/2012 4:07:46 AM
Hmmm...Interesting link...one can glean interesting bits of info from it...like the fact that many school systems that have inflated budgets also have higher administrative costs...yanno, the business of education.

Even after adjusting for cost of living and student poverty variables, they found that districts with lower productivity spent $950 more per student than districts with above average productivity, and the most inefficient districts tended to devote an extra 3 percent of their budgets to administration and other nonteaching expenditures
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/06/06/School-Budgets-The-Worst-Education-Money-Can-Buy#page2

Wow...see how fast the racists come out of the woodwork to prove black kids are dumber than white kids
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 60
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/13/2012 7:56:56 AM
Yes, well, the average IQ of Jews is 113 compared to the rest of whites at 102...of course there are some whites with a very high racism IQ.

Being smart is the most expensive thing we do. Not in terms of money, but in a currency that is vital to all living things: energy. One study found that newborn humans spend close to 90 percent of their calories on building and running their brains. (Even as adults, our brains consume as much as a quarter of our energy.) If, during childhood, when the brain is being built, some unexpected energy cost comes along, the brain will suffer. Infectious disease is a factor that may rob large amounts of energy away from a developing brain. This was our hypothesis, anyway, when my colleagues, Corey Fincher and Randy Thornhill, and I published a paper on the global diversity of human intelligence.

A great deal of research has shown that average IQ varies around the world, both across nations and within them. The cause of this variation has been of great interest to scientists for many years. At the heart of this debate is whether these differences are due to genetics, environment or both.

Higher IQ predicts a wide range of important factors, including better grades in school, a higher level of education, better health, better job performance, higher wages, and reduced risk of obesity. So having a better understanding of variations in intelligence might yield a greater understanding of these other issues as well.

Before our work, several scientists had offered explanations for the global pattern of IQ. Nigel Barber argued that variation in IQ is due primarily to differences in education. Donald Templer and Hiroko Arikawa argued that colder climates are difficult to live in, such that evolution favors higher IQ in those areas. Satoshi Kanazawa suggested that evolution favors higher IQ in areas that are farther from the evolutionary origin of humans: sub-Saharan Africa. Evolution, the hypothesis goes, equipped us to survive in our ancestral home without thinking about it too hard. As we migrated away, though, the environment became more challenging, requiring the evolution of higher intelligence to survive.

We tested all these ideas. In our 2010 study, we not only found a very strong relationship between levels of infectious disease and IQ, but controlling for the effects of education, national wealth, temperature, and distance from sub-Saharan Africa, infectious disease emerged as the best predictor of the bunch. A recent study by Christopher Hassall and Thomas Sherratt repeated our analysis using more sophisticated statistical methods, and concluded that infectious disease may be the only really important predictor of average national IQ.

Support for this hypothesis comes not only from cross-national studies, but from studies of individuals. There have been many studies, for example, showing that children infected with intestinal worms have lower IQ later in life. Another study by Atheendar Venkataramani found that regions in Mexico that were the target of malaria eradication programs had higher average IQ than those that were not. In practical terms, however, this means that human intelligence is mutable. If differences in IQ across the world are largely due to exposure to infectious disease during childhood, then reducing exposure to disease should increase IQ.

Despite the strength of our findings, our study was not without its limitations. We did our best to control for the effects of education. But what we really needed was to repeat our analysis across regions within a single nation, preferably one with standardized, compulsory education. The nation we chose was the United States. Average IQ varies in the states. (Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont are at the high end, for example; California, Louisiana, and Mississippi are near the low end.) Again, infectious disease was an excellent predictor of average state IQ. The states with the five lowest average IQ all have higher levels of infectious disease than the states with the five highest average IQ, and the relationship was good across all of the states in between.

So far, the evidence suggests that infectious disease is a primary cause of the global variation in human intelligence. Since this is a developmental cause, rather than a genetic one, it’s good news for anyone who is interested in reducing global inequality associated with IQ. If the primary factors were genetic, as some have suggested, IQ would be very difficult to change.

As our research continues, we hope to discover the periods of development that are most sensitive to disruption by infectious disease, and determine which diseases are most harmful to brain development. If the evidence continues to come out in favor of our hypothesis, it will allow people interested in using this information to raise the IQ of people around the world to target their efforts most effectively and efficiently.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-is-average-iq-higher-in-some-places&print=true


And one might assertain from the following list that where a person comes from determines how stupid they are.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McDaniel's Estimated Average IQ Score by State
1. MASSACHUSETTS........................................104.3
2. NEW HAMPSHIRE..........................................104.2

3. NORTH DAKOTA............................................103.8

4. VERMONT....................................................103.8

5. MINNESOTA.................................................103.7

6. MONTANA....................................................103.4

7. MAINE.........................................................103.4

8. IOWA..........................................................103.2

9. CONNECTICUT...............................................103.1

10. WISCONSIN.................................................102.9

11. KANSAS......................................................102.8

12. SOUTH DAKOTA............................................102.8

13. NEW JERSEY................................................102.8

14. WYOMING....................................................102.4

15. NEBRASKA....................................................102.3

16. WASHINGTON................................................101.9

17. VIRGINIA......................................................101.9

18. OHIO...........................................................101.8

19. INDIANA.......................................................101.7

20. COLORADO....................................................101.6

21. PENNSYLVANIA..............................................101.5

22. IDAHO..........................................................101.4

23. OREGON.......................................................101.2

24. UTAH...........................................................101.1

25. MISSOURI......................................................101.0

26. NEW YORK.....................................................100.7

27. MICHIGAN......................................................100.5

28. DELAWARE.....................................................100.4

29. NORTH CAROLINA.............................................100.2

30. TEXAS...........................................................100.0

31. ILLINOIS..........................................................99.9

32. MARYLAND.......................................................99.7

33. RHODE ISLAND..................................................99.5

34. KENTUCKY........................................................99.4

35. OKLAHOMA.......................................................99.3

36. ALASKA............................................................99.0

37. WEST VIRGINIA..................................................98.7

38. SOUTH CAROLINA...............................................98.4

39. FLORIDA...........................................................98.4

40. GEORGIA...........................................................98.0

41. TENNESSEE.......................................................97.7

42. ARKANSAS.........................................................97.5

43. ARIZONA...........................................................97.4

44. NEVADA............................................................96.5

45. ALABAMA...........................................................95.7

46. NEW MEXICO......................................................95.7

47. HAWAII..............................................................95.6

48. CALIFORNIA........................................................95.5

49. LOUISIANA..........................................................95.3

50. MISSISSIPPI........................................................94.2


http://www.top50states.com/average-iq-score.html







 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/13/2012 10:50:40 AM
^^^^^All Greek to me.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 62
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/14/2012 5:42:51 PM

Because a true statistic is not to your liking does not make it racist.
The Myth of Equality
Pat Buchanan
Aug 27, 2010

So to defend what someone says as not racist, you not use only statistics, but those provided by a racist*.

Congratulations on your fail.




*
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/twelve_pretty_racist_or_just_crazy_quotes_from_pat_buchanans_new_book.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qITwCtfgqw

Two of many examples for Buchanans racism.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 63
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/14/2012 6:35:55 PM
Because a true statistic is not to your liking does not make it racist.

It is great that you value facts. However, facts without context can be misleading. Be careful that you follow up the "what" with the "why" and "how." Actually, some things cited as facts, such as the size of this racial IQ gap, may not even BE factual. It is important to verify these "facts" against multiple sources.

Here is a source with a different take on this:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-15point.htm

Because you are so able to accept brutal facts, I'm glad to point out one from the above article that you should find more uplifting: although (in the US) average white IQ is higher than average black IQ, the average black IQ is increasing at a higher rate!

That's pretty positive
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 64
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/14/2012 8:57:11 PM
There is absolutely no point explaining to a racist why they are racist...the mere effort to find IQ "facts" that "prove" miniorities are of lesser intelligence is racist based. Virtually, all legitimate epidemiology on IQ points to enviromental factors being the primary influence on IQ...not genetic fctors...but, then when one can quote that white supremist Pat Buchanan and use his "facts" to prove the superiority of the white race-well, how can one dispute that.

How quickly we forget that, most who cite the supremacy of the white race, just a short time ago pointed to the gross inferiority of the female sex...and proved it beyond all doubt with "facts".
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 65
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/14/2012 9:07:45 PM
Watch the PBS doc Race: the power of an illusion.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 66
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/15/2012 5:13:05 PM
There is absolutely no point explaining to a racist why they are racist...the mere effort to find IQ "facts" that "prove" miniorities are of lesser intelligence is racist based.

Agreed, as there is one thing in this world that no one can do, and that is fix stupid, so best to leave them to twist in the wind of their own racism.




Watch the PBS doc Race: the power of an illusion.

Thanks for the info, looks like a very interesting documentary, I will have to check it out when I get back home as the internet here in the hotel is sucky at best.

They also great web site.

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

The quiz was a great eye opener.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 67
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/15/2012 9:01:06 PM

IQ tests administered by the second largest school district in the nation are non-verbal assessments


And what are the results of those non-verbal assessments in regards to ethnicity?

I did make a major boo-boo in my reply to the guy who made the claim about the reports on disproportional IQs according to color--I didn't ask for proof of their validity--who did the testing, where did the testing take place, when did it take place, and what types of tests were administered?


A lot of them are based in math - they want you to find a pattern and tell them the pattern. They use a lot of the same concepts prime numbers, skipping/adding, roots but not everyone understands how to use those concepts in real life because math isn't taught as a skill to use - it's taught as follow the formula because we say - but where can I use this teacher - you might use this if you become an engineer - student, now, continue with your work. If they don't look at the problem as a math problem... they are lost - it doesn't make sense. I admit my math is lacking but I'm great at spatial problems. Open something up and I can see the shape it becomes but these are nothing like that in most cases - instead they are purely math driven.


I am also good at spatial problems and my math is lacking. However, this does not mean that I do not have the ability to do well in math, but that I just don't enjoy math problems. I have a calculator that does any problem I need done. As an English major and now as an English teacher, I don't have to do math.

My youngest son is the opposite. He dislikes writing (though he has the ability to write well) and likes math because of its objectivity: 2 + 2 ALWAYS equals 4. I find that boring and safe.


Some of the questions I don't find fair because one I had was something like "Whose face is on a current USD 50 cent piece" in the '90s.


And this question has nothing to do with intelligence--which was my earlier point!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 69
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 6:00:10 AM

"Hey Boss, it's dem wacists, it's dem wacists". Thus sprake Tattoo.


And so, we're entertained by yet another example of____
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 70
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 11:21:15 AM

As for Equal Education for all....... That would be great, but unrealistic. Some people live in environments where education is valued and others live in areas where staying alive, not being hungry, and having something to wear are priorities. It is like apples and oranges. Kids can't learn if they don't feel safe and are hungry no matter what the system offers them.

IMO if a country can spend trillions killing people in foreign lands it is not unrealistic to provide their citizens a fair chance at an education.

So feed those kids, make sure they have shelter.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 71
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 11:29:33 AM

The teacher's I encounter work very hard.


hoping that most realize that "teachers" in this sentence should not have the apostrophe.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 72
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 11:41:14 AM
As for Equal Education for all....... That would be great, but unrealistic. Some people live in environments where education is valued and others live in areas where staying alive, not being hungry, and having something to wear are priorities. It is like apples and oranges. Kids can't learn if they don't feel safe and are hungry no matter what the system offers them.


Isn't goal setting suppose to be lofty and hard to achieve...or should we just go on the premise that if it's difficult why bother???

There will always be social problems, socio-economic differences, and a multitude of other issues with equality in education...but, shouldn't we try???



So feed those kids, make sure they have shelter



They get fed in schools, and most schools are actually a safe haven...

They have parents (most), not everything is the responsibility of the Educational system.


Are you seriously saying that schools provide 3 squares and a roof over kids heads???
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 73
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 11:48:05 AM

They get fed in schools, and most schools are actually a safe haven...

What they are feed is not food, it barley passes as a reasonable facsimile.





They have parents (most), not everything is the responsibility of the Educational system.

I am not talking about what the educational system needs to do and I think that has already been discussed.

It is underfunded social programs or lack there of and an unfair tax base combined with monies being directed to corporate welfare that causes the problems.

If a society is to be a society, then the least it can do is treat everyone equally and provide help where help is needed.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 74
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 11:50:53 AM

They get fed in schools, and most schools are actually a safe haven...

What they are feed is not food, it barley passes as a reasonable facsimile.


and to be brutally honest, even that is less because 'they' care about the kids, and more because of lobbying efforts on politicians from farmers and the food industry to create more demand and a guaranteed market for some of their products
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 75
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 12:00:06 PM
^^
and to add to that.

What is happening because of this, is the schools are adding more diabetics to the pile.


Ann Cooper talks school lunches

Flimed Dec 2007

Speaking at the 2007 EG conference, "renegade lunch lady" Ann Cooper talks about the coming revolution in the way kids eat at school -- local, sustainable, seasonal and even educational food.

Ann Cooper cares -- a lot -- what kids eat for lunch. As the head of nutrition for Berkeley, California, schools, she serves organic, regionally sourced and sustainable meals to lots of lucky children


View Video here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ann_cooper_talks_school_lunches.html
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 76
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 12:03:23 PM
^^


^^
and to add to that.

What is happening because of this, is the schools are adding more diabetics to the pile.


ah, so increased business NOW for Big Food

and increased business LATER for MDs, the medical industry, hospitals, funeral homes and mortuaries!

how clever a plan by the government !
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 77
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 12:39:07 PM
lofty ['l?ft?]
adj loftier, loftiest
1. of majestic or imposing height
2. exalted or noble in character or nature
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lofty


lofty??? Strange word to use there. I am sure you had your reason.


Well, hmmm...seems teach has a negative streak in her...because I see not one thing wrong with lofty nor it's usage in my post.


I know in Texas we have financial issues in the education area and I am sure other states do also. It is an ongoing, constant battle to address all the problems. As far as I know (you may have other information), they haven't given up trying.


Ahhh...the land that framed "No Child Left Behind"...or rather "Every gifted child brought down to average"...wasn't the premise of Texas's n"no child left behind" based on fradulent test scores abnd dropout rates...interesting read:
The 'Texas Miracle'
ByRebecca Leung .
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/60II/main591676.shtml


Anyway, what the fed and states have done is given up on funding education to the levels required to actually achieve progress....
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 78
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 1:32:23 PM

Flimed Dec 2007

That is 5 years ago...Maybe you need to look for more recent information.

Ok, watch what Jamie Oliver showed people what the state the of food programs are like in the US.


Or maybe you could point out what has changed since that video aired and fill us in on how it is no longer relevant.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 79
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 1:34:27 PM

Flimed Dec 2007

That is 5 years ago...Maybe you need to look for more recent information.


math update, more like 4 years, 2 months

but of course in the internet age anything from more than 2 days ago is old & useless -why bother looking at longer-term trends?
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  >