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 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 77
Equal Education for ALL in the US?Page 5 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
lofty ['l?ft?]
adj loftier, loftiest
1. of majestic or imposing height
2. exalted or noble in character or nature
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lofty


lofty??? Strange word to use there. I am sure you had your reason.


Well, hmmm...seems teach has a negative streak in her...because I see not one thing wrong with lofty nor it's usage in my post.


I know in Texas we have financial issues in the education area and I am sure other states do also. It is an ongoing, constant battle to address all the problems. As far as I know (you may have other information), they haven't given up trying.


Ahhh...the land that framed "No Child Left Behind"...or rather "Every gifted child brought down to average"...wasn't the premise of Texas's n"no child left behind" based on fradulent test scores abnd dropout rates...interesting read:
The 'Texas Miracle'
ByRebecca Leung .
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/60II/main591676.shtml


Anyway, what the fed and states have done is given up on funding education to the levels required to actually achieve progress....
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 78
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 1:32:23 PM

Flimed Dec 2007

That is 5 years ago...Maybe you need to look for more recent information.

Ok, watch what Jamie Oliver showed people what the state the of food programs are like in the US.


Or maybe you could point out what has changed since that video aired and fill us in on how it is no longer relevant.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 79
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 1:34:27 PM

Flimed Dec 2007

That is 5 years ago...Maybe you need to look for more recent information.


math update, more like 4 years, 2 months

but of course in the internet age anything from more than 2 days ago is old & useless -why bother looking at longer-term trends?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 80
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/18/2012 1:49:05 PM
AA...lol...I was wondering what old bit of info wasn't relevant or which poster wasn't worthy of reading...or how achieving lofty goals is a bad thing...or why conservatives can never stay on topic but, continually change the topic when confronted with relevant facts.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 81
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2012 11:53:17 AM

^^^Funny because this is the flip side yet the same message as the liberals who say we should excuse behavior and expect less of minorities and poor children. Opposite sides yet the same end point. I bet neither groups sees that they have identical beliefs.
Both sides disgust me.

Say what? You specifically said that your experience was that poor, minority children did worse. You were even accused of racism by a "liberal" for stating that. How the Hell do you suddenly say that this is the "liberal" position and that you're "disgusted" by it.

It's your position, as stated in previous posts.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 82
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2012 12:01:22 PM
My point was that you are characterizing a position as "liberal" which isn't, and that you're disgusted by it when it's exactly what you said earlier.

If you may remember, I defended you from the accusation of racism. But to say that the very position which you advocated and which brought on an attack from a liberal, is suddenly a liberal position is ridiculous.

edit: I posted this before you added your slur that Canadians are racist. Yeah, just stay in your frickin' bubble there. As a Canadian who has had lots of dealings with people who have emigrated from your country - I'm just going to say that your experience doesn't jibe with any of the black Americans who I've met here. But you just keep on pretending that Canadians are racist and whatever you do don't talk to any minorities who have experience in both countries. It might disrupt your little fantasy world.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 83
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2012 12:42:47 PM
It also made schools accountable based on standardized test scores.


And yet it is said over and over again that many many teachers in America teach to the test...and that imaginaion, innoovation, and critical thinking are being left behind in the rush to pass the test so no child is left behind.

Negative Implications Of No Child Left Behind: As Graduation Rates Go Down, School Ratings Go Up


ScienceDaily (Feb. 14, 2008) — A new study by researchers at Rice University and the University of Texas-Austin finds that Texas' public school accountability system, the model for the national No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), directly contributes to lower graduation rates. Each year Texas public high schools lose at least 135,000 youth prior to graduation -- a disproportionate number of whom are African-American, Latino and English-as-a-second-language (ESL) students.


By analyzing data from more than 271,000 students, the study found that 60 percent of African-American students, 75 percent of Latino students and 80 percent of ESL students did not graduate within five years. The researchers found an overall graduation rate of only 33 percent.

"High-stakes, test-based accountability doesn't lead to school improvement or equitable educational possibilities," said Linda McSpadden McNeil, director of the Center for Education at Rice University. "It leads to avoidable losses of students. Inherently the system creates a dilemma for principals: comply or educate. Unfortunately we found that compliance means losing students."

The study shows as schools came under the accountability system, which uses student test scores to rate schools and reward or discipline principals, massive numbers of students left the school system. The exit of low-achieving students created the appearance of rising test scores and of a narrowing of the achievement gap between white and minority students, thus increasing the schools' ratings.

This study has serious implications for the nation's schools under the NCLB law. It finds that the higher the stakes and the longer such an accountability system governs schools, the more school personnel view students not as children to educate but as potential liabilities or assets for their school's performance indicators, their own careers or their school's funding.

The study shows a strong relationship between the increasing number of dropouts and school's rising accountability ratings, finding that:
•Losses of low-achieving students help raise school ratings under the accountability system.
•The accountability system allows principals to hold back students who are deemed at risk of reducing the school's scores; many students retained this way end up dropping out.
•The test scores grouped by race single out the low-achieving students in these subgroups as potential liabilities to the school ratings, increasing incentives for school administrators to allow those students to quietly exit the system.
•The accountability system's zero tolerance rules for attendance and behavior, which put youth into the court system for minor offenses and absences, alienate students and increase the likelihood they will drop out.

The discrepancy between the official dropout rates, in the 2 to 3 percent range, and the actual rates can be attributed to the state's method of counting, which does not include students who drop out of school for reasons such as pregnancy or incarceration or declare intent to take the GED sometime in the future.

The study analyzes student-level data of 271,000 students in one of Texas' large urban districts over a seven-year period. It also includes analysis of the policy and its implementation, extensive observations in high schools in that district and interviews with students, teachers, administrators and students who left school without graduating.

The study has been published in the peer-reviewed policy journal "Educational Policy Analysis Archives" and is the first research to track the impact of high-stakes accountability on students, employing individual student-level data over a multi-year period. The study can be viewed at http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v16n3/.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080214080530.htm

EditVVV:


You can post all kinds of things off the internet but I'm simply telling you the reality of school districts


Actually, I come from a family of educators, have educator friends, and date an educator...my views are mine...formed thru the eyes and experiences of others, as well as being reasonably informed thru reading some on the subject.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 84
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2012 8:35:42 PM
With all your "knowledge" you had NO answer to my post, only that you know some teachers and get your information from stuff posted online. I'm adding


Silly me....I though posting that article on the dropout rate in Texas as a direct result of NCLB was an answer of sorts...you are absolutely right...having teachers tell me that they find creativity removed from the classroom in order to prepare children for the "test" isn't my experience...it's their ..and between that and the numerous articles on the subject matter it's all I've got to work with...so, no...I've no personal experience with it....and if youur POV is that because I'm not a teacher and listening to the POV of other teachers doesn't make me a teacher...I have to say your reasoning in this matter is spot on...


Teachers use the textbooks and curriculum which mandate which chapter and which week they must be on that chapter so it's a fantasy to teach to the test.


And the curriculum isn't geared towards improving the "test" scores in order to meet goal? Anyway, regardless of whether teachers or the curriculum are teaching towards the test and improving the "test" scores the net result is the mandated goal of becoming 100% proficient by 2014 isn't becoming a reality...many states are woefully behind in progression to the 2014 goal...I find it interesting that many states and districts are now pondering teacher evaluations based on their students "testing"...I predict a teacher revolt if this happens.


Give California a No Child Left Behind waiver

Editorial


The Education Department should back off from its mandate that the state use test scores for teacher evaluations.

October 03, 2011


California would very much like a waiver from the requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act. The vast majority of the state's schools, including many high-achieving ones, would be labeled as failures by 2014 under the poorly written federal law, facing sanctions that time and experience now show to be of little help to low-achieving students.

The U.S. Department of Education would like to give California a waiver. It wants to show that states are willing to go along with its plan for revamping the law, and doesn't want to impose sanctions on the biggest state, with an eighth of the nation's students.




Yet state and federal officials could be headed toward a giant game of chicken over the waiver application because of a small provision within the very large and complicated plan. That provision would require states to make standardized test scores count in teachers' performance evaluations, a hot-button issue that has been vehemently opposed by teachers unions in California. In a meeting last month with The Times' editorial board, state Supt. Tom Torlakson didn't rule out the possibility of the state moving in that direction, someday and under the right circumstances. But he was far from committed to the concept, and opposed to doing it while the state is still using the current tests, which are due to be replaced in about four years.

The Obama administration nonetheless has been overly determined to prod states into using test scores in teacher evaluations. That was a factor in whether states were winners in Education Secretary Arne Duncan's Race to the Top — a grants competition that California never got fully on board with — and now the government wants to require it for relief from No Child Left Behind, with intermediate steps leading up to full adoption in four years.

Using test scores to rate teachers is the latest trend in the reform movement, and while doing so might have value as one of many elements in an evaluation, federal education officials admit that there is a dearth of research on whether it actually improves learning. That makes it premature to be talking about this as a long-term federal mandate. Politicians have seized on other supposed silver bullets of school reform — small schools, reconstituted schools — only to find over time and after study that the results were mixed to nonexistent.

The administration's plan should focus on accountability — whether schools are meeting their goals — rather than attempting to dictate the process by which they do it. The evaluation mandate is a troubling anomaly in a generally well-thought-out plan for overhauling No Child Left Behind.

The law, signed by President George W. Bush in 2002, was supposed to result in all U.S. students testing as proficient in reading and math by 2014. Assorted disciplinary measures have been levied on schools that didn't make the grade. But the goal was always unattainable — more than 80% of schools would be labeled as failing by that time. No Child Left Behind is clumsily crafted and laden with nonsensical rigidity, untested punishments and unrealistic expectations.

Congressional failure to overhaul the law as the situation moved closer to meltdown prompted the Obama administration to try its hand at formulating a more sensible plan. It has largely succeeded, though congressional Republicans validly question whether the law can in effect be rewritten by the president rather than Congress.

The Obama restructuring would build more flexibility into the goals and the way progress is measured. Schools would be credited for showing that students are on the path to proficiency even if they aren't there yet. States would be able to count other achievements toward schools' progress, such as lower absenteeism rates and higher graduation rates. States would be invited to create their own standards and ways of measuring progress, as long as a federal committee finds those to be rigorous enough. That would fix the current problem of states reacting to unrealistic goals by setting their standards so low that even bad schools can meet them.

Unlike No Child Left Behind, which labels schools as failing if they don't meet rigid goals for every subgroup of students, the administration's rules would take into account that there's a difference between a truly terrible school where no progress is being made and a school that's coming along even if it misses some targets.

What the plan unfortunately lacks is a way to address the narrowing of curriculum that has occurred under No Child Left Behind. With only reading and math measured by the federal law, schools have cut back on other parts of the curriculum, including the arts and physical education. The administration could have included more ways to measure progress through, say, portfolios that exhibit accomplishments in other subjects.

Republicans in Congress can do battle with the administration about whether it has the authority to impose its revamp of No Child Left Behind, but if they want to help students, they would be better off using the plan — with some amendments — as a blueprint for legislation. It returns significant authority and flexibility to the states, something the GOP has rightly sought.

Meanwhile, the Obama administration has made it clear that it wants every state to obtain a waiver from No Child Left Behind and will work with states to make it happen. If the Education Department is willing to be more flexible than the written mandates indicate, California and the federal government could work out a deal. The state should be exploring the use of test scores in teacher evaluations, but they should not be mandated at this point. That could include pilot programs like the one in Los Angeles Unified School District in which teachers can volunteer to participate in a more rigorous evaluation process. Research on the effectiveness of test scores as a teacher measuring tool are needed. It makes more sense for Duncan to back off from this mandate than to see California left without a waiver.
http://articles.latimes.com/print/2011/oct/03/opinion/la-ed-nclb-20111003
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 85
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2012 8:44:46 PM
And a balanced article on teaching to the test (please note there's lots more to the article, but I'll post the link rather than create even more clutter than I have already:)

Teaching to the Test
Increasingly, schools are finding it just makes
sense to align curriculum and
assessment.
By Kevin Bushweller
Teaching to the test--the very words have always been heresy to
educators. Teaching to the test puts too much emphasis on standardized
tests that are poorly constructed and largely irrelevant, the theory goes; it
stifles creativity and encourages cheating.m m m m m iBut today a new
perspective (and a new education buzz phrase) is emerging. It's called
curriculum alignment, and it means teaching knowledge and skills that
are assessed by tests designed largely around academic standards set by
the state.
In other words, teaching to the test
http://www.pittsburghfuture.com/downloads/TeachingtotheTest.pdf
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 86
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/20/2012 3:33:26 PM
FaerieFea18- I typed a response and had it wiped out because the site timed me out :(
Click on my profile and send me a message. I live in Alabama, a coastal area on the Gulf that's about as far South as you can get.
I am willing to share info with you for your book.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 87
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2013 9:07:47 AM

Equal Education for ALL in the US?

Not in Kansas

Kansas Bill Would Require Teachers To Misinform Students About Climate Change
By Rebecca Leber on Feb 19, 2013 at 9:04 am

Last week, the Kansas House Education Committee introduced a bill that mandates teachers question the scientific basis of global warming, becoming the latest state to take up one of American Legislative Exchange Council’s “model bills” aiming to misrepresent climate change in schools.

Kansas would join Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee and Oklahoma as the fifth state to cast climate change as a “controversial” topic. But climate change is only controversial in political and polluter circles, not the scientific community. 97 percent of climate scientists actively publishing in the field agree climate change is human-caused.

As National Center for Science Education executive director Eugenie C. Scott explained, “The only effects of enacting such a misguided bill would be to discourage responsible teachers from presenting climate science accurately and to encourage irresponsible teachers to misrepresent it as controversial.”...


Read the text of the bill and the rest at: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/02/19/1607051/kansas-bill-would-require-teachers-to-misinform-students-about-climate-change/
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 88
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/19/2013 2:33:40 PM
Nothing in the U.S. Constitution guarantees a right to education. Public education has traditionally been a local matter, and it is up to each state to decide what sort of schooling to provide its residents. Creating the Dept. of Education was Jimmy Carter's reward to teachers' unions for their contributions to his election, and it should be dissolved as useless or even harmful to American children. I think the constitutional authority for it is doubtful, and Americans had far better public schools when there was little or no federal involvement in them.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 89
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/20/2013 5:41:14 AM
Creating the Dept. of Education was Jimmy Carter's reward to teachers' unions for their contributions to his election


Good golly Ms Molly...history is rewritten once again!

But, sadly (for some) there's the fact and fiction about the history of education in the US:



History


The original Department of Education was created in 1867 to collect information on schools and teaching that would help the States establish effective school systems. While the agency's name and location within the Executive Branch have changed over the past 130 years, this early emphasis on getting information on what works in education to teachers and education policymakers continues down to the present day.

The passage of the Second Morrill Act in 1890 gave the then-named Office of Education responsibility for administering support for the original system of land-grant colleges and universities. Vocational education became the next major area of Federal aid to schools, with the 1917 Smith-Hughes Act and the 1946 George-Barden Act focusing on agricultural, industrial, and home economics training for high school students.

World War II led to a significant expansion of Federal support for education. The Lanham Act in 1941 and the Impact Aid laws of 1950 eased the burden on communities affected by the presence of military and other Federal installations by making payments to school districts. And in 1944, the "GI Bill" authorized postsecondary education assistance that would ultimately send nearly 8 million World War II veterans to college.

The Cold War stimulated the first example of comprehensive Federal education legislation, when in 1958 Congress passed the National Defense Education Act (NDEA) in response to the Soviet launch of Sputnik. To help ensure that highly trained individuals would be available to help America compete with the Soviet Union in scientific and technical fields, the NDEA included support for loans to college students, the improvement of science, mathematics, and foreign language instruction in elementary and secondary schools, graduate fellowships, foreign language and area studies, and vocational-technical training.

The anti-poverty and civil rights laws of the 1960s and 1970s brought about a dramatic emergence of the Department's equal access mission. The passage of laws such as Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 which prohibited discrimination based on race, sex, and disability, respectively made civil rights enforcement a fundamental and long-lasting focus of the Department of Education. In 1965, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act launched a comprehensive set of programs, including the Title I program of Federal aid to disadvantaged children to address the problems of poor urban and rural areas. And in that same year, the Higher Education Act authorized assistance for postsecondary education, including financial aid programs for needy college students.

In 1980, Congress established the Department of Education as a Cabinet level agency. Today, ED operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and some 56 million students attending roughly 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 15 million postsecondary students.

https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html





Nothing in the U.S. Constitution guarantees a right to education.


Seems some believe this is not the case:



Upgrading Education to cabinet level status in 1979 was opposed by many in the Republican Party, who saw the department as unconstitutional, arguing that the Constitution doesn't mention education, and deemed it an unnecessary and illegal federal bureaucratic intrusion into local affairs. However many liberals and Democrats see the department as constitutional under the Commerce Clause, and that the funding role of the Department is constitutional under the Taxing and Spending Clause. The National Education Association supported the bill, while the American Federation of Teachers opposed it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education


Education was Jimmy Carter's reward to teachers' unions



American Federation of Teachers opposed it ...seems the American Federation of Teachers just happens to be a trade union of teachers...

Funny how facts always seem to be inconvinient to some :)...or perhaps the meatloaf has some delusional ingredients in it???
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 90
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/21/2013 1:14:16 AM
in all the states i have lived in thus far, elementary through high school is funded by county property tax. thus, if you live in a rich county, not only do they have more $$$, but parents often can afford to chip in both time and more $$$. in the past, poorer areas got federal and state grants, but with the economy that has declined.

iep's are given to smart kids with learning disablitites and can be a salvation, but many of the poorer kids have parents not familiar with the process of obtaining, so for example an ad/hd kid ends up in a behavioural class with little education and exposure to kids who are bad ass. that being said, rich bad ass kids seem to get away with more or the parents have the time/$$$, to put them in private school or with other alternatives.

add drugs and drinking to the mix of an underfunded, understaffed school with poor infrastructure in a rich state with a dispersal of poor counties within it and the discrimination starts even before you get to college age. if a parent understands all this, they can then push the system to offer the kid in question more alternatives. eg iep's, charter schools, private schools with scholarships.

note: iep's are individualized education plans for learning issues like ad/hd, dyslexia, auditory processing problems, etc. when the kid is smart but the environment does not address their special needs to learn.
 Hands of gold
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/23/2013 9:25:21 PM
I just heard an educator from Finland speak. His name is Pasi Stahlberg and he travels the world as an educational consultant. Finland has one of the highest ranked school systems in the world, and it isn't by accident. He boiled it down to a few things:

1) In Finalnd, teachers are expected to be professionals and they are paid that way. They all have masters degrees and only 10% of applicants into the educational colleges are accepted. Right there you have raised the bar. Also, university and vocational schools are paid for by the government (common across Europe)

2) First create equity in all schools, then create excellence. This means you must make allowances for poorer families. 3 course school meals for everyone, early childhood education available from age 3 or 4, doctor and dentist and counselling access through the schools

3) Special education support to anyone who needs it. If you are below grade level, you need it. If it means 90% of the school receive resource room help, so be it. This wasn't uncommon in the poorer areas of Helsinki, and wouldn't be in USA either.

4) Standardized testing decreases student achievement. How? Too much stress for students to write those exams, teachers feel they need to teach to the test, taking time away from pursuits that really grow intelligence; problem solving, critical thinking skill development and the creative arts. (Yes- the arts)

USA has some excellent schools, teachers and students. But it is not across the board. You must give a hand up to the poorer schools and students. This costs money. But not doing it will cost even more in the long run, and you may be witnessing the results of underfunding education already.

By the way, the top 5 nations for education? Finland, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, and Canada. I know the asian kids are working their asses off, but not so much in Canada. We have equity in our schools and ensure all students are grounded in the creative arts. Plus teachers are paid a decent wage.

USA must choose to improve and then pay for it. It's worth the investment
 Hands of gold
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 92
view profile
History
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 2/28/2013 4:11:25 AM
USA is the richest country in the world. Can't afford to educate citizens because of all the illegals? Poor excuse. It is misappropriated priorities. Dedicate 10% of the military budget and there would be enough money for any educational needs.
 shine1274
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 93
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/7/2013 11:29:15 AM
The problem is that education is just another business in the US. Push as many kids through as possible for the lowest amount of money possible. The problem is, you get what you pay for. There are many people that would love to teach, but couldn't afford to live the life they want on that salary. There are people teaching now that have no business teaching. They just couldn't get a job in the field they wanted, and have a student loan payment to keep up. It has to be made into an institution again. One where the top priority is education, not processing kids through for the cheapest amount possible.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 94
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/7/2013 11:57:26 AM

Our military is tapped enough, especially with obama serving them up as fodder for his muslim brothers


Oh Boy!!! President Obama is not a Muslim…and he has gotten us out of Bush’s war in Iraq and will have us out of Bush’s other war in Afghanistan by 2014.


For those of us who have worked with the schools the answer is all too obvious, stop catering to criminals.


Say what? Whom are you speaking of…the teachers…the children…the administration…the service help???


Let the police deal with those who commit crimes, get them out of the classrooms, and if immigrants want to use our schools let them go by the same rules as American kids.


The teachers committed crimes…the children…what are you talking about…this makes no sense…what’s the problem with the children of immigrants? I still fail to see whatever point you are attempting to make.


They have to at least know enough to be able to function in the classroom. Immigrants come and hold the whole class back,


You want to support that assumption that immigrants hold the classroom back…many European, Asian, and middle-Easterners come to America ahead of our children in their scholastic knowledge.


while they are draining the budgets


How so…many immigrants pay state, federal, and local taxes.


Just check the stats on how many are taking from just the school lunch program alone,


Is there a stat on children of immigrants that take part in the school lunch program…if so, please provide this, with supporting documentation, to prove your assertion.


when they shouldn't even be in the country much less that school.


Please tell me why a child of an immigrant should not be in our country or schools.


And don't forget how many have STOLEN scholarships etc.


Why don’t you back this up with proof from a reliable source.

But, more to the point…as someone who’s stated they worked in the school system…and therefore, allude to a higher level of education and understanding…why is your post about immigrants…when what you really meant was illegal immigrants?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 95
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/10/2013 8:26:58 AM

Why not admit obama is muslim, since he already has? Are you calling him a liar on that one?

If Obama was a muslim, which he is not, but if he was, why does it matter?




In the schools, go ahead and play obtuse all you want, as with the rest of your post, but we all know that illegals are killing our educational and medical systems.

We also all know that some people will believe anything that helps fuel their hate of brown people.




For going along with the victimization of American kids, I would consider anyone else enabling the situation to also be guilty. It is clear from your post that you are either completely ignorant of the reality of what goes on in our schools, or are just one of those they call a"troll", posting idiotic lies and trying to distract from the crimes of obama etc, as the rest do.

Pot Meet Kettle.




I believe it is their only function on these sites by now. Don't you get bored with embarrassing yourself? Might want to read these posts a bit more closely in the future to save yourself a tad of shame.

Yeah and Obama is a muslim, whats next you want to check his birth certificate?

The irony it burns.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 96
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/10/2013 8:31:59 AM

Equal Education for ALL in the US?

Bullet dodged in Kansas, thanks to top notch working by missing a deadline for filing.

Antiscience “Academic Freedom” Bill Dies in Kansas
By Phil Plait
Posted Thursday, March 7, 2013, at 1:45 PM

...

So, Kansas state legislators, if you want to relive the glory days when creationists embarrassed Kansas while the whole world watched, you’ll have to try a little bit harder. I’ll note that very similar bills in three states—Indiana, Oklahoma, and Arizona—also recently died, and for the exact same reason. Incredible.

I have no doubt these same state governments will continue to try to pass bills that curb our children from learning and blind them to the real world. And while they do so, that very same world is still warming up. And species are still evolving. And the Universe adds another few years to its already considerable 13.73 billion year age. That’s the way things are...


Read more about their incompetence at: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/03/07/kansas_global_warming_denying_bill_dies_by_default.html
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 97
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/10/2013 8:41:44 AM

Why not admit obama is muslim, since he already has?


How ripe...President Obama has never said such a thing...please provide proof that he has as I've never seen anything to support your claim (other than the birther craype)…yet, even if President Obama was a Muslim, in our Country, which was in part founded under the notion of religious freedom, why would that matter???


check again, and see just how many more conflicts, and how many more soldiers have been sent out, now under the obama regime. You seem to be very confused over that one, to put it as nicely as I can.


Is it your contention that President Obama has participated in new wars or conflicts with new troops on the ground...or that he is responsible for the two wars that former President Bush started? From this seat all I see is that President Obama has ended the fraudulent war in Iraq, is in the process of removing troops from Afghanistan, and has declared that America will have the balance of troops out of Afghanistan by 2014...I am unaware of any wars or conflicts that President Obama has initiated.

By the numbers:

In Iraq: 4488 Americans were killed….256 since President Obama was inaugurated on 1/20/2009

4232 killed under President Bush
http://antiwar.com/casualties/

In Afghanistan: 2179 total American military deaths…590 under Bush…1549 under Obama
http://icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx

Totals under President Bush: 4232 + 590=4822
Totals under President Obama: 256 + 1549=1805

Or roughly 3 times as many Americans died in these 2 Bush wars during President Bush’s administration than did during President Obama’s administration


but we all know that illegals are killing our educational and medical systems. For going along with the victimization of American kids


Illegals are killing the educational and medical systems? And we all know it? Rather than make unfounded assertions....how about supplying support for your claim..you know...an article...statistics...something other than your opinion. I sort of like “Fact Check”…



4. "$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!"

5."$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."

Both links given to "verify" these claims lead to an April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN. During the show, correspondent Christine Romans cited both of these stats and attributed them to FAIR. A FAIR research paper from 2005 does include these cost projections, but a closer look shows that the underlying assumptions are inflated or unsupported.

The FAIR report starts with the presumption that there are "1.5 million school-aged illegal immigrants residing in the United States." That figure is attributed to an Urban Institute presentation that doesn’t actually say that. Instead, the Urban Institute said: "We estimate that there are about 1.4 million undocumented children under 18 with about 1.1 million of school age (5 -19)."

The FAIR report also assumes there are 2 million "U.S.-born siblings" of illegal immigrant families. However, the Urban Institute makes no estimates of U.S.-born siblings and FAIR gives no citation for its figure. And in any case, again, those U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are themselves U.S. citizens and not "illegal aliens."

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/



I just think this claim is choice:


The schools get their federal money on a per butt in the seat at attendance time, basis. That is why they don't just toss the punks (suspensions, expulsions, ...like when we were kids). If they toss the trouble makers they lose a couple bucks from the feds. It IS all about money. These teachers are scammers on that one same as any other govt department.


I think the claim here is that the federal government pays the majority of the cost of primary education…and nothing could be farther from the truth:



All three levels of government – federal, state, and local - contribute to education funding. States typically provide a little less than half of all elementary and secondary education funding. Local governments generally contribute about 44 percent of the total, and the federal government contributes about 10 percent of all direct expenditures.
http://febp.newamerica.net/background-analysis/school-finance



The article goes further to explain that the funds for primary education are determined by several different formula’s…one of which includes the number of students….but, in any case, teachers do not have any say in school budgets, or who attends school…school boards, school administrations, local governments, and tax payers have the ultimate say.


or are just one of those they call a"troll"


ROFLMAO…so, let me get this straight…disagreeing, and asking for supporting documentation, with someone in civil terms makes them a troll…and while making this claim the accuser says things like:




completely ignorant
posting idiotic lies
Don't you get bored with embarrassing yourself?
Might want to read these posts a bit more closely in the future to save yourself a tad of shame.



For those of us who have worked with the schools


About the only thing I like about “No Child Left Behind” is the requirement that teacher get their graduate degree…that ensures that no uneducated personnel will be teaching our kids without at least a certain level of knowledge....utilizing complete coherent sentences....and know the difference between immigrant and illegal alien.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 98
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/12/2013 5:34:17 AM

Aristotle_Amadopolis, anyone who even has to ask what it would matter to have a muslim in the seat of power over a Christian nation is just playing purposely obtuse. I did find it humorous that you are so ignorant (or just pretending to be) that you were unaware that obama stated he was in his book, in his own words. He has also admitted that the birth cert her used to get on the first ballot was a complete fraud, again, HE ADMITTED IT, (and still hasn't produced one that is legit, have you forgotten that as well?) but still, you won't accept it? Are you getting an idea of how you and your ilk come off with ridiculous pop offs like your's? I don't put words in his mouth, but I will crucify him on those he comes up with on his own. Why take issue with that? Are you really so lazy and foolhardy that you have never even researched obama? Are you just going on the hype and rumors? That is NOT the responsible or intelligent way to choose who you back, that is how we get things like the OWs.

Obvious troll is obvious.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 99
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/12/2013 5:58:32 AM
I must say, about all I can think when it comes to those who are either so far into denial, too ignorant to do the research, or too petty, jealous and vile to want anything but "all to pay" because their lives are so dismal (by their own doing), is how friggin pathetic can you get? Such a sorry lot.


Funny you say that…repeatedly you have been asked to support your assertions (to put them nicely) with some third party literature…yet, all you come back with is personal attacks on the very ppl who have cited third party information…Ms Kettle please meet Mr Pot.


LYING yourself and trying to pretend that I did is just another shady tactic that those who follow obama employ, but it is getting as tired out as the accusations of "racist" just for hating a domestic terrorist.


I’m trying to make sense out of this incoherent statement….is it your contention that children of illegal immigrants are “domestic terrorists” (some of which by constitutional amendment are American citizens themselves)???


anyone who even has to ask what it would matter to have a muslim in the seat of power over a Christian nation


I’m glad you’ve said this…it shows that you’ve forgotten some basic American history….wasn’t this nation originally settled by the very people who were fleeing religious persecution??? And came to a country where they could exercise their beliefs without government intrusion…and when these founders wrote the constitution of these United States…did they not separate the church from the state in order to ensure that all people of this wonderful nation could have their own religious belief without government interference??? In fact, many of our founders were deist and not Christian in their beliefs.


He has also admitted that the birth cert her used to get on the first ballot was a complete fraud, again, HE ADMITTED IT


Well now…if he did (and he really didn’t)…then just bring the quote where he did and the link citing the quote here…because, while I’m sure you believe what you’ve said…I don’t….this is just more birther bullshyte…


I don't put words in his mouth


Nope…you don’t…your own words speak to the type of person you are.


Are you really so lazy and foolhardy that you have never even researched obama? Are you just going on the hype and rumors? That is NOT the responsible or intelligent way to choose who you back, that is how we get things like the OWs


ROFLMAO…it truly is amazing, in this day and age, that after the wonderful progress this country has made…passing the 13th amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the ERA, Voting Rights Act…and so on….that there still is a pervasive attitude in this country denying all these wonderful civil advances we’ve made as a country…it does seem as though we’ve a few more generations to go before we’ve out lived our past.


Parents should lead by example


And I thank God that some ppl are past the age of procreation….because teaching another generation the gospel of hate is too horrible to imagine.
.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 100
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/13/2013 6:24:59 AM

Nope. Read that last dollar you have in your pocket, proof enough is written right on it. This IS a Christian country, and it is Christians who tolerate the fact that others have differing beliefs, muslims don’t and never will.

Obvious irony aside.

That derp about the invisible sky wizard on America money was added in 1956.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 101
Equal Education for ALL in the US?
Posted: 3/13/2013 6:44:20 AM
From post #142


This IS a Christian country, and it is Christians who tolerate the fact that others have differing beliefs, muslims don’t and never will. The only good muslim, as with illegals, is a dead one.


Well, that's a discussion stopper.
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