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 OTKneeded
Joined: 2/14/2012
Msg: 26
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.Page 2 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
"Sorry the emotional irrational gender is biologically incapable of leadership most of the time. "


Of course there exceptions for every rule, right?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0801534.html


 mainelyhere
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 27
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 10:21:49 AM
of course there are exceptions. sometimes it doesnt rain in the rain forest.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 28
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 10:29:58 AM
"Sorry the emotional irrational gender is biologically incapable of leadership most of the time. "


Of course there exceptions for every rule, right?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0801534.html

Look at his posting history - it's all woman bashing. He's trying to suck you in to twist the topic to his style and make it us vs them. The OP is controlling the topic better offering feedback on points raised.
 mainelyhere
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 29
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 10:32:07 AM
do you mean me my dear?

for the record though i'd love it if we examined those leaders and their actual successes.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 30
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 10:46:52 AM
I think women have untapped power, many fear the power they have and give into societies ideal of what a male/female relationship SHOULD be until they find theyve compromised themselves to the point of lost identity.

I dont believe within an FLR a man loses himself, not if he knows who he is in the beginning. I do however ascribe to the adage "If momma aint happy, no one will be" ...

Perhaps Ive over simplified this thing called relationship.....not even sure I could be one, but it is an interesting concept with many pros and cons....much like everything else.
 _Kites_
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 31
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 10:57:51 AM

Look at his posting history - it's all woman bashing. He's trying to suck you in to twist the topic to his style and make it us vs them. The OP is controlling the topic better offering feedback on points raised.
Who cares (?). It's an interesting topic with an ironic twist on relationships in this day and time.

Many women these days are narcissistic and controlling in their relationships. Luckily, they're easy to spot and I can stear myself clear. I don't want to be in a relationship that's so one-sided.

Both parties should contribute what they're able to. It's great that you're an independent woman and that you're used to taking care of everything yourself, but a man needs to contribute to the relationship without being consistently challenged to be happy. There's nothing positive about a "FLR" or a "MLR." I hope this isn't some new trend that's getting positive attention on the internet.

It sounds ridiculous to me!
 OTKneeded
Joined: 2/14/2012
Msg: 32
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:01:05 AM
"for the record though i'd love it if we examined those leaders and their actual successes."

Gahndi, Thatcher, Peron...
Are you seriously questioning their leadership? What do they teach you in school these days? Obviously not world history.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 33
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:32:22 AM

Both parties should contribute what they're able to. It's great that you're an independent woman and that you're used to taking care of everything yourself, but a man needs to contribute to the relationship without being consistently challenged to be happy. There's nothing positive about a "FLR" or a "MLR." I hope this isn't some new trend that's getting positive attention on the internet.

If you don't see anyone leading ever - how do you deal with differences?
The only word that fits is compromise. One person gives in and hopes that in the future the other will give in.

It's when it becomes one sided that there would be resentment. If I'm the type of person that cleans dishes right after I use them and they are the type of person that lets them stack up and washes them once a week - who is going to be bothered most by the other person's behavior and who gets to say how it's going to be at the end of the day. Or is it then my job to do his dishes just to get them out of my face that becomes resentment later. That's why I still think that people will try to find someone compatible in all ways so that they can't build up any resentment as long as they think the same. The question I would offer to you is - are you really 50/50 or are you just alike so that you almost always make the same decisions.

I can equate it all to this dating site and the people still here. Surely someone you have come across has been 25% or even 50% compatible with you. What makes you not jump off the site and tie down with them. It's because you are hoping for 80% or more compatibility right? Then you don't have to deal with who leads because you want a relationship built on mutual life goals, lifestyles, and more. The entire discussion of this could explain why some people take a long time finding someone suitable for them - they don't want to be led, they don't want to lead, they want to imagine that it's fifty fifty - in reality it's not - it's one hundred one hundred when so many things you like are aligned.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 34
view profile
History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:39:44 AM

I do however ascribe to the adage "If momma aint happy, no one will be" ...

sounds like emotional blackmail. no one is entitled to play that card, regardless of gender.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 35
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:43:58 AM
This would not interest me at all.I am an adult an only want a relationship with someone else who is also an adult.I don't want to be someones mommy.
 mainelyhere
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 36
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:44:00 AM
christ didnt you know? thats contemporary equality.
 _Kites_
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 37
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:54:34 AM

If you don't see anyone leading ever - how do you deal with differences?

Of course some situations will warrant one person's leadership over the other (contribute what they're able to).

You've got to be able to reach compromise in the end - at least most of the time even if there are differences in your beliefs, experience or whatever. Differences are better solved together. Compromise is the leader, not you or I.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 38
view profile
History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:08:08 PM
to each there own
personally I do not want 100% control, nor do I want to be controled
 TOEDWY
Joined: 5/30/2011
Msg: 39
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:31:52 PM
Seriously... there goes the neighborhood!
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 40
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:42:36 PM
Some of the women in this thread are nailing it quite well.

If a woman is running the relationship, it shows nothing but a whipped male with no balls and a lack of strength. As well as dignity.

No...I do NOT want to run my relationship with a man. A man should very much lead the relationship, but with respect, love and allowing me to make my own choices as well.

A b*tch male is not attractive in the least.

Be a man....not a whipped b*tch.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 41
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:45:59 PM
^^^Add me to the list that agrees with this.

I will run my life entirely and I will participate in any relationship I am in where I control what affects me, and I stand equal in the decision making, but that's it. His life and his end of the relationship are his responsibility.

If I am going to run his life and his half, why not just stay single? Much less to keep track of, and likely a lot more freedom. Pffft.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 42
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:48:30 PM
Ive responded to individual comments. Fact is this is all conceptual, I dont have the experience of a FLR, so can only speak to concept.

I dont know if I could be in a FLR. I have no desire to dominate anyone, nor would being dominated appeal to me if you took the furthest extreme understanding of dominate. Its been an interesting read how others interpret lead, control, dominate, submission and other wording that has appeared here.

I dont believe women automatically assume responsibility of the household chores, must relocate for her spouse, surrender the remote (lol), have sex when they dont really want to, accept being unsatsfied sexually but stroke her man's ego anyway, place her self second or adapt herself in the dance of compromise for the relationship.

I do think people have hidden ideals and expectations of their spouse they perhaps they are unaware of, like: how many men just naturally assume their wife will be the one that is responsible for cooking and maintaining the kitchen....it isnt said, but its assumed....isnt it? just a superficial example...dont trip
 sexandthepof
Joined: 10/10/2011
Msg: 43
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 12:55:34 PM
“*May or may not be true, but women think in terms of the relationship, most men do not…”

On lots of things women and men don’t have the same thinking because women are from Venus and men are from Mars.

In the old days most relationships were lead/controlled by men because women did not have opportunities to earn education and money. Things have changed, women now are more educated, more knowledgeable and can take care of themselves financially, and they can voice up their opinions, and many men are not happy about that because mostly men are wired up domineering from the dinosaur age.

For me, I don’t want to lead because it’s not an easy job, but I don’t want to be lead/controlled either because I want fairness.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 44
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:03:17 PM

A woman wants a man because he's a man... then she emasculates him... and when he needs to be THE MAN... he's looking to her for leadership? ROFL


WHY is a man an inherently better leader?

He isn't.

We have been handed a line of tripe for centuries. A man cannot be emasculated by a woman unless she lets him.


Women are better at running the home if that's what you are talking about.But a man should run the show otherwise.Mutual respect and mutual understanding that's how things should go .I respect that she is better at budgeting and decorating and she respect that I take the lead in every other aspect.


You're kidding, right?

I have three degrees (four, if you count an AA), I am a college instructor, and I have not been in a serious relationship for over six years. During that time, I have bought a house (well, the bank and I), paid for a car, and in better financial shape that I have been in my life--including a 25 year marriage and a seven year relationship where my decisions were highly influenced by a male.

Why do I need, or want, a man to "lead" me?

I do want a partnership, but it is not out of my blind necessity for a man to take care of me, my money, or other aspects of my life. Nor do I want to take care of his: I want a relationship built on love and respect, one that does not assume traditional male/female stereotypes.


Sorry the emotional irrational gender is biologically incapable of leadership most of the time.


Dude, that’s no way to talk about your own gender! Perhaps you are emotional and irrational, but that doesn’t mean that all mean are.


If a woman is running the relationship, it shows nothing but a whipped male with no balls and a lack of strength. As well as dignity. [. . .] A man should very much lead the relationship, but with respect, love and allowing me to make my own choices as well.


Wait a minute! Why should anyone LEAD? What about reaching mutual consensus based on discussion? What is this obsession about leading—male or female?

“Allowing” you to make your own choices? We are not children! I do not expect a man to ask me permission for anything, but by the same token, I am not going to ask his permission.


In the old days most relationships were lead/controlled by men because women did not have opportunities to earn education and money. Things have changed, women now are more educated, more knowledgeable and can take care of themselves financially, and they can voice up their opinions, and many men are not happy about that because mostly men are wired up domineering from the dinosaur age.

For me, I don’t want to lead because it’s not an easy job, but I don’t want to be lead (controlled) either because I want fairness.


Spot on!
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 45
view profile
History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:22:34 PM
"I cant help but wonder what a relationship would be like with a woman that self-identifies as bossy and prone to run things and a man also desiring to run things.....sounds like a collission on the tracks ahead. ...."

There is a big difference between being bossy and having an alpha character. I in a marriage to another alpha with my late husband. Worked like a charm. Hate to use the word worked because that marriage was no work at all. We both ran businesses, then came home to enjoy each other. There was never a reason for either of us to run the relationship. If he wanted to buy a vehicle, he went and bought one, as I did. Homes we choose together. We looked until we found one that made both of us happy. If either of us wanted to do some kind of recreation that the other didn't, we did it alone, and we were both happy with that arrangement.

I would never have dated him, let alone married him if he was bossy. I am sure he would never have married a bossy women.

"The discussion may start - where do you want to eat - chinese? The other person says how about italian then they agree on italian.

You are correct if both sides are 50/50 in opposite directions and no one thinks they should compromise it will be a stand-off then control becomes who can argue the best. If they end up separating and getting their own versions of dinner then they spent more time and have to eat at home just to be together. Sounds pretty silly when someone could have just compromised."

How hard is it to buy both Chinese and Italian and eat it at home?

"Someone has to lead (as much as others hate that word) and the other agrees to follow."

Uh...............no. There is no such rule. Try sharing and see the difference!

"I think women have untapped power, many fear the power they have and give into societies ideal of what a male/female relationship SHOULD be until they find theyve compromised themselves to the point of lost identity."

And many women know exactly what power they have and use it. Many women think this misinformation about "societies ideal of what a male/female relationship SHOULD be"
is a joke.
I can remember being in high school and hearing about "what societies ideal of what a male/female relationship SHOULD be" and thinking you have to be kidding me.

"how many men just naturally assume their wife will be the one that is responsible for cooking and maintaining the kitchen....it isnt said, but its assumed....isnt it? "

I live in a different world than where those assumptions exist. Any man who gave off that vib during a first date, would be toast.

"A woman wants a man because he's a man... then she emasculates him..."

If he is a man then he can't be emasculated. No one can change us unless we give ourselves away.

"Why SHOULDN'T a man lead?"

Adults of either gender do not need to be lead!

"A man is the leader in a marriage, correct?"

I have lived six decades and this is the first time I have even hear or seen anyone ask that question.

" The man of the house hold?"

The only way I have seen either a man or a women be head of house hold is when they were single.

" When I say "Lead," I don't mean control. There is a difference. Men have been leading relationships/marriages since the beginning of time, and to the best of my knowledge not much has changed. That is the way it should be."

Again, I must say that in 60 years, I have never seen a man lead in a relationship or marriage and have a happy man or women............dysfunctional relationship is what I have seen when their is a leader of either sex.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 46
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:23:36 PM
Wait a minute! Why should anyone LEAD?


Why SHOULDN'T a man lead? A man is the leader in a marriage, correct? The man of the house hold? The head of the house hold? When I say "Lead," I don't mean control. There is a difference. Men have been leading relationships/marriages since the beginning of time, and to the best of my knowledge not much has changed. That is the way it should be.


What about reaching mutual consensus based on discussion?


That would be entirely up to the couple.


What is this obsession about leading—male or female?


I don't think there is any obsession. What is there to be obsessed over? A man leads the relationship (respectfully), therefore, why would that be an issue?


“Allowing” you to make your own choices?


My own choices, and decisions. I never indicated that meant asking him for his permission for anything. I meant for the both of us to be in an open minded relationship, whereas he is not controlling all choices, decisions and even me. But still lead as a man should.
 Picelli
Joined: 12/27/2011
Msg: 47
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:28:25 PM
I know a few FLR's - both parties are extremely happy and they are full of respect for each other.

Like Gwen, I have done quite well during my singlehood. Paid off all my debt, saved up a very nice sized down payment and bought a nearly brand new home at an awesomely low interest rate since my credit score is near perfect, I've returned to college and maintain a 3.75 GPA (even through Human Anatomy and Human Physiology). I just made it to top 5 (out of 900+) for Employee of the Year at my work - I have done amazingly good for myself as a single woman making all of the decisions regarding my life.

I know if I find myself in a relationship later on, I am going to have to give up making all of the decisions. I have gained a lot of pride and confidence through these single woman experiences, sharing is going to be difficult. I haven't shared in approximately 6 years.

I think it narrows down to what is a good fit. Hopefully the gentleman can balance me out on what I am not good at, and there we find the 50/50.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 48
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:32:39 PM
A woman wants a man because he's a man... then she emasculates him... and when he needs to be THE MAN... he's looking to her for leadership? ROFL

WHY is a man an inherently better leader?

He isn't.

We have been handed a line of tripe for centuries. A man cannot be emasculated by a woman unless she lets him.

Here's a funny thing about that word emasculate (from the 1600's)- there is no real antonym that dictionaries show. So, men can be de-manned but women can't be de-womanned. No surprise it's a word used by men often. The closest thing a woman can do is use defeminize in comparison. (from the 1900's). Basically, they had 300 years to say it to you when you couldn't say it back :P

Isn't that something that women are getting done to them too, being told to man up.

If they cry because they stub their toe - they should suck it up.
If a commercial comes on that makes them sad - he laughs at her taking it seriously.
If she has some obsession with shoes, clothes, or style he chalks it up as typical female and insults it.
If she is saddened by a dying animal he tells her to forget about it.
In her face he says nice things, to his friends he calls her a nag and they call him ****-whipped if he doesn't complain about her as some evil entity that he beds because her hair smells nicer than the dog's.

Why is taking control emasculating a man unless you assume that they require control and if you don't why is taking control as a man not considered defeminizing a woman.

That's right because women don't have control in the words, they only have woman traits. You can only take away our fem. traits instead of our control. When we ask you to stop burping in our face - we aren't taking away your traits, we are emasculating you and taking away your control. It's all so clear lol

I don't like that word and don't think it has a fair feminine reference word.
 lightbrownsuga2luv
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 49
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 2:21:03 PM
I agree Mr. Kites
Interesting topic though if I say so myself FLR.

Gosh again I wish we had a "like" to click when somone says something you agree on.
Just guess I'm into FB too much.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 50
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 4:38:35 PM

Why SHOULDN'T a man lead? A man is the leader in a marriage, correct? The man of the house hold? The head of the house hold?


Your question to my question is not legitimate, and in your antiquated ideology, the man is the leader in a marriage, but this is the 21st century! By your logic, women who live alone should be absolutely clueless, floundering about without direction because there is no man to guide them.

As for "head of the household," by legal definition for tax purposes, the head of the household is either male or female. I know because when I was single and supported my son, I was the head of the household.


That would be entirely up to the couple.


Well, no, mutual consensus is reached between two parties: if the man is the leader, all he has to do is to shoot down his wife's input and it is done. Of course, a woman (or a man) who would give total control over to another wouldn't understand about consensus or sharing "leadership."


I don't think there is any obsession. What is there to be obsessed over? A man leads the relationship (respectfully), therefore, why would that be an issue?


Can you see the inherent contradiction of your answer? I suspect not and I suspect it is useless to try to explain.


My own choices, and decisions. I never indicated that meant asking him for his permission for anything. I meant for the both of us to be in an open minded relationship, whereas he is not controlling all choices, decisions and even me. But still lead as a man should.


Then what is the point of having a leader?

You said,
No...I do NOT want to run my relationship with a man.


Then he runs it, and that means he tells you what to do. If you don’t think so, disagree with the president who runs a corporation and go against his/her wishes and see where it gets you.

Picelli wrote:
I know if I find myself in a relationship later on, I am going to have to give up making all of the decisions.


The key word “all” of the decisions—but somehow, I cannot see you “allowing” a man to make decisions for you as if you are incapable of making them. I have seen women bend to the will of their husbands in decisions that the women KNEW were wrong and perhaps even harmful, but the man was the “leader.” My sister did this in the business that she and her deceased first husband operated. She was the MUCH better business person, but he was the male.


Here's a funny thing about that word emasculate (from the 1600's)- there is no real antonym that dictionaries show. So, men can be de-manned but women can't be de-womanned. No surprise it's a word used by men often. The closest thing a woman can do is use defeminize in comparison. (from the 1900's). Basically, they had 300 years to say it to you when you couldn't say it back :P


I am not sure that “antonym” would be the right word in this case. “Emasculate” refers specifically to males, so an antonym would be the opposite in a male context. But you are right—I am trying to think of a single that encapsulates the same meaning for a woman and I can’t think of one. I can think of words to describe masculine appearing women, but that is not the same.

Physically speaking, to castrate a man would be to REALL “emasculate” him, and castration has been performed for a looooooooooong time. Cutting off a breast doesn’t quite have the same connotation; I supposed a hysterectomy is as close as a woman could get, but women lose fertility after menopause so even that loses its punch. Barrenness used to be grounds for divorce, and the blame was almost always put on the woman.

I propose a new word: deovaryized.
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