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 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 51
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I don't wish to lead or be led.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 52
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/25/2012 6:52:48 PM
*Sigh*

There is a fine line between leadership, and control. A true leader has an open mind, and does not run things entirely on his or her own.

Leadership does NOT mean bid by your rules, and others have no say in anything. That is NOT leadership.

I feel as a woman that my BF/spouse should be the leader in our relationship, and if certain people want to misinterpret that as controlling and "running things" then that is their problem.

When someone is "running things," that individual has full command without the help and
opinions of others.

That is not what leadership is.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 53
view profile
History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:08:16 AM
Imo, people need to use leadership with children.

Adult should not need to be lead no matter how nicely the leadership is.

No doubt there are some people who don't want to be responsible for their life, and want their mate to assume that responsibility. Why or how they need an other adult to be responsible for the relationship is something I want no part of.

If someone doesn't want to be responsible for themselves I would have no interest in them. It isn't up to me lead an adult. If I were to do that, I would be robbing them of their ability to develop into a fully functional adult.

What happens to a person who's spouse dies and the spouse has been the leader. Not only does that person have to deal with their grief, they also have to learn to run their lives by themselves. Something imo that you should have been doing all along.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 54
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:22:16 AM
I think many of us have a linguistic response to certain words: led, control, responsible. Again Ive never experienced a FLR, but I can see benefit in establishing within the relationship the person designated as the decision maker, using all the information (including the others opinion) available.

I dont believe in this day and age the head of household is automatically the man. Ive read of women in these relationships feeling very safe, very secure and quite considerate of her spouse.

So what if she feels cared for because her husband does the dishes, cooks the meals, takes care of the laundry and household chores, chooses the movie, holds the remote and orchestrates when they have sex.......hell Im single and do all those things now.

I dont see FLR as the woman being responsible for the man's life....just me
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 55
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 11:29:42 AM
So what if she feels cared for because her husband does the dishes, cooks the meals, takes care of the laundry and household chores, chooses the movie, holds the remote and orchestrates when they have sex.......hell Im single and do all those things now.
---------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing you didn't include here was taking care of the kids. Although you intermixed previous women's roles with the male by placing the remote in your hand, and expecting sex when you want. Sounds like now you're doing it all, what's she doing? Women complain about this role, yet you proudly go where no man has gone before. A true frontiersman. Go Danny Boone.



I dont believe in this day and age the head of household is automatically the man. Ive read of women in these relationships feeling very safe, very secure and quite considerate of her spouse.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps you also read/heard of men complaining when the money runs out, so does she. You want to put on your red cape and save the day? Want to be provider, protector of the weak? You expect appreciation, when you just might find out you were a fool. Someone placing their well-being in your hands might just be manipulating you. If you look at many of these boards you'll find that many men are shedding their roles of provider/protector/Head-of-Household. This doesn't mean that they are looking for a woman to lead them, just that they don't want to do the leading anymore.

Consider this scenario with a FLR (or MLR): I want to downsize our 4-bedroom and get a 2-bedroom with more amenities. She wants to get a 6-bedroom and a pool. There won't be a decision made. We'll just stay put. Neither male or female has any power over you, but what you give them. Pressing the issue in your favor will result in divorce, sell, split. I'll go get my 2-bedroom, you go get your 6 w/pool.

IMO, an adult shouldn't want to be led, let alone expect it. You also shouldn't be held back in your decisions because your partner doesn't want to participate. In the scenario above the appropriate decision would be sell the house, I buy my 2-bedroom, you get your 6-bedroom, and we get post-nups as the split has already taken place (if you were married and wanted to remain so). If you want to drag me into this endeavor because you need my assets, you can't do this unless I agree. This applies with anything else also.

I'm not surprised that many seem to think that 1 must be in a position of final authority. Each has equal authority, and equal responsibility. You can get your own credit, you can file your own taxes seperately. There are even living together agreements for those not married. You are an individual first, a partner second. You can part company with your partner, but you can't part company with yourself. If anyone has a vested interest in you, it is you. I think people should appreciate their partners more when they stay with you, but can leave at anytime. I feel sorry for those who don't have this option as they are either partnerless, or have partners who are just as weak. Although, I've seen many who are independent with dependents (I'm not talking kids).
 sexandthepof
Joined: 10/10/2011
Msg: 56
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 12:34:28 PM
Who should lead? Who should or want to be led? Who want equality? Who are smarter than whom? Sometimes I feel this is like WWIII. LOL

In the WWI & WWII there were fights among countries in the world. And they ended finally. But now there are fights (verbally) among women and men, parents and children all over the world openly on the internet. This world war may last forever. What fun, eh?
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 57
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 2:56:05 PM
FLR?

No way!

MLR?

Hell no!

There is no such a thing as a "relationship". It is simply a word used to classify the interaction between two people. You cannot touch, smell, taste, or see a relationship. You cannot hold it in your hands, you cannot use it to open a door. The words, "mother", "wife", "sister", "aunt", etc.. can refer to the same person. The word "relationship" refers to the same two people and their interaction(s). That is it.

The most perfect type of interaction between two people is usually one in which:

Each person is the captain of their soul, their actions, etc..
No one leads, on one follows (with one exception which I won't mention)
Each person makes a decision for them self and informs the other person of their decision, and perhaps, in order to achieve something greater than either one person can, both will make a compromise - i.e. give-up certain things in order to achieve a common goal.

Any slave-master type of relationship usually leads to abuse, hate, and discord. FLR and MLR are a type of slave-master relationship. No one wants to be told what to do. And no one in their right mind wants to lead anyone else but oneself - which tells you something about politicians.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 58
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 3:39:41 PM
Im new at the forum boards so forgive me if I dont copy and paste for reference:
1. I meant she holds the remote and we watch what she likes.
2. I do believe in relationships
3. No one gives away their soul to another, it isnt theirs to give.
4. If each person makes a decision for themselves why bother being in a relationship?
5. FLR MUST be based in trust, absolute trust....if trust isnt present why bother being together>
6. the last couple of guys to post to this thread appear scared of relinquishing or even accepting the responsibility for another that must exist in any relationship.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 59
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 4:22:20 PM
"I don't believe a 50/50 relationship betwen 2 people exists, I do believe compromise almost always leads to resentment."

Hmmm, read the thread up to this point, and stopped. Sorry OP, your reasoning is flawed. To my mind we are all individuals. As such, which would come first? Resentment due to domination or resentment due to compromise? Resentment is after all the same no matter the cause.

So what's the answer? Why don't relationships work?

IMO, they don't work because we have this idiotic dream, boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl, she does the same, they join together(use your own paradigm here marriage, live together, whatever) and live happily ever after!

When you have a job, you have to work. When you want a great lawn, you have to work on it and care for it. When you own a car, you must check the oil, put air in the tires, have it tuned regularly, that's also work.

so why do we think that after we meet someone we are attracted to, we can just sit back and stop working on the relationship? Everything requires work, he11 even sex requires work. When we cease to care for our appearance, our partner finds us less desirable. When we don't constantly show affection, the other gets insecure, because they think we no longer are attracted and find them desirable.

By the way, it takes the work of both, shoulder to shoulder, heart to heart. IF one is viewed as less or subserveant, then that resentment comes back into play.

I'm sure you will have your own take on this. BUT if anyone is less, their can be no us, just who is first and who is second.

You need all the ingredients to make a good stew, the same applies here. Both must care and show affection, both must communicate and hold nothing back, both must never go to bed angry(thats how resentment starts), both must put the others feelings into anything we do, and not consider ours first and only. This would be equivelant to "equally yoked".

Anything else, is just an experiment, or a relationship with a damaged person.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 60
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 4:28:45 PM
No basis of relationship on who maintains the remote.

We have differing understandings of Soul. No one possesses their soul, therefore it cant be given, nor taken by another.

Who says anyone cant make their own decisions? We each contribute who we are to the relationship. Havent women, since forever according to previous posts, been giving themselves to their husbands until recent.

Ive never been in a FLR, but it seems trust has to be a cornerstone.

Yeah Id probably draw the line at receiving the exacted punishment....geeeez, I'll remember to put the toilet seat back down, sorry......lol
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 61
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 4:45:00 PM

I feel as a woman that my BF/spouse should be the leader in our relationship, and if certain people want to misinterpret that as controlling and "running things" then that is their problem.


You changed your phrasing—what you “feel” does not apply across the board to ALL people; this is quite different from what you said previously:


Why SHOULDN'T a man lead? A man is the leader in a marriage, correct? The man of the house hold? The head of the house hold?


This states that men should, unequivocally, lead in a marriage. You never gave me a reason why this should be so! It is an outdated patriarchal (and religious) standard that has little bearing in the modern world where it is now acknowledged that women are as smart and capable as are men—or at least people who are not locked into antiquated ideologies know this.

You can do whatever you want to do in your relationship, but it does not mean that it works for everyone and that the man "is" the leader in a marriage.


There is a fine line between leadership, and control. A true leader has an open mind, and does not run things entirely on his or her own.

Leadership does NOT mean bid by your rules, and others have no say in anything. That is NOT leadership.


Again, then WHY have a leader? Explain to me the function of the man as leader of a family or marriage--he gets the final say, right?


Imo, people need to use leadership with children.


Moraima, this was my point, too! Why does a woman need to be led? Why isn’t she capable of making her own decisions? Why is the man the automatic choice for leading?


Ive read of women in these relationships feeling very safe, very secure and quite considerate of her spouse.


You mean that the little woman is glad that someone takes over the decision making process so that she can be mindless and have no responsibility? My father had the final say on everything, and many times, my mother chafed at his decision but she abided because he was the man. His decisions were not always the right ones but neither were hers. However, when he died, she had no concept of how to control the money. My sister has taken care of my mother’s finances for years—whoa! A woman “leading” another woman. How does she do it? This simply cannot be possible.


Men are conditioned from childhood to rebel against unjust authority.


And women aren’t? We are taught to shut up and take it? In times past, we were taught just that, and some women still are—it is one reason why they stay in abusive relationships.


Each person is the captain of their soul, their actions, etc..
No one leads, on one follows (with one exception which I won't mention)
Each person makes a decision for them self and informs the other person of their decision, and perhaps, in order to achieve something greater than either one person can, both will make a compromise - i.e. give-up certain things in order to achieve a common goal.

Any slave-master type of relationship usually leads to abuse, hate, and discord. FLR and MLR are a type of slave-master relationship. No one wants to be told what to do. And no one in their right mind wants to lead anyone else but oneself - which tells you something about politicians.


Spot on! Someone who gets it!
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 62
view profile
History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 4:56:24 PM
People have their ideas of how things should be. I don't understand some of them. Myself, I desire - and think it's healthy - to have a partnership. I'm not interested in a relationship where one dominates the other. Sounds weird to me. Of course, lots of people think the opposite - a male dominated relationship - is a good thing. I want partnership, not domination.


Why SHOULDN'T a man lead? A man is the leader in a marriage, correct? The man of the house hold? The head of the house hold?

What a quaint idea.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 63
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 5:20:20 PM

If each person makes a decision for themselves why bother being in a relationship?

That would only seem odd if you revolved around the other person and lived only in the context of that relationship. Ideally a relationship is an overlap of two individuals with their own lives. Therefore while there are decisions the two make together for the relationship, they will also have their individual lives where they will make decisions for themselves.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 64
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 5:29:08 PM

There is a lot of weird and fetish filled junk on the internet concerning this subject matter, of which I have no interest.
I would avoid using terms like 'weird' or 'normal' if you wish to have open minded discussion.


Arent women more than capable of "running" the relationship? I mean every aspect of the relationship she chooses, even to the point of subserviance from her mate? Why do women automatically have to place their wants, needs and desires second to her man's?

There are many strong, powerful women in this world and through out history. A motherly figure who provides soft, nurturing guidance. There are matriarchal societies where word of elder mother is law. Women are more then capable of ruling, making tough decisions and providing for the family.
Now as far as relationships I suppose it is possible in a controlled environment. This would require a feat of social engineering. In a real world this goes against rules of attraction. Majority of females are not sexually attracted to subservient males as majority of males are not attracted to strong females. Average woman will never be happy to take on full responsibility and maintain respect and attraction for her man unless it is temporary arrangement or 'fetish filled junk' as you delicately put it.


No fussing, no arguing, no disagreements....What do others think?

Now that is quite impossible. Unless you've achieved nirvana or a boring, emotionless robot there always will be disagreements and arguments. People are different and that's what makes this world fun. How you handle disagreements is another matter.


*Insecure men NEED to dominate.

You may want to take interest in 'fetish junk' before passing judgment.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 65
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 6:33:28 PM

If each person makes a decision for themselves why bother being in a relationship?


WIP:
That would only seem odd if you revolved around the other person and lived only in the context of that relationship. Ideally a relationship is an overlap of two individuals with their own lives. Therefore while there are decisions the two make together for the relationship, they will also have their individual lives where they will make decisions for themselves.


Yes!

In a partnership of any type, there is a give and take, but when there is a "leader," that person has the final say, eh? That is the wise person who knows best in any situation, and the unwise would be "wise" to always heed the rules set down.

Fine for children, not so good for rational, logical, mature adults. I suppose that irrational, illogical, immature adults need to be lead, but who is the leader and who is lead should not be determined by gender. Even so, adults who cannot make decisions on their own should seek counseling.

A marriage is about give and take and compromise. If my partner and I were going on vacation, it should be a mutually agreed upon destination. If we are buying a house, it needs to be a mutually agreed upon location and style. If I am buying a car, shoes, a dress, or other "item" that I am using, I don't need to discuss the issue (though with a major purchase, I very likely would--not to get approval, but because I like to discuss just about everything).

The vacation spot should not be chosen based on his "leadership." I should not have to live in a house that I hate based on his "leadership"--and neither should he.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 66
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 6:40:46 PM

If each person makes a decision for themselves why bother being in a relationship?


Collaboration, security and redundancy. Oh, and this little thing called love.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 67
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 6:41:07 PM
Whats most interesting to me throughout this entire thread has been the compulsion for the extreme.

Ive attempted on more than one occasion to remain somewhere in the middle. Ive tried to illustrate a middle ground and perhaps been misunderstood.

I do not believe simply by virtue of possessing a penis a man is endowed (parden the pun) to lead within the relationship.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 68
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:05:36 PM

Whats most interesting to me throughout this entire thread has been the compulsion for the extreme.

Ive attempted on more than one occasion to remain somewhere in the middle. Ive tried to illustrate a middle ground and perhaps been misunderstood.

I do not believe simply by virtue of possessing a penis a man is endowed (parden the pun) to lead within the relationship.


I have not read every post, but the "extreme" that I see is that of people who say that men should lead in relationships because they are men.

People who disagree are saying that there should be middle ground.

Who said that women SHOULD lead by virtue of being female? I musta missed those posts!
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 69
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:13:19 PM

Whats most interesting to me throughout this entire thread has been the compulsion for the extreme.
I find it interesting that this would surprise you.

You started a thread about female-led relationships.. that in itself is a form of extreme. As it would be for a strictly male-led relationship.

The obvious middle ground being that of equality.

I also think it's a fallacy that in a relationship where two people value equality, this somehow automatically means that someone HAS to be the leader. As in.. a calcified and stagnant role. I think that where a healthy balance exists, the people involved lead in different circumstances and play off of one another based on their unique talents and personality. A dance of growth and balance that doesn't depend on laid down sterotyped roles.

Imo you are the one pointing to extremes and then looking in wonderment that others are reacting to that or following suit.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 70
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:21:00 PM
Perhaps....but interesting none the less
 bwena
Joined: 2/5/2012
Msg: 71
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:35:34 PM
I tend to be a take charge kind of person. I'm organized, efficient, and frugal and have always managed the family budget. But, I don't want to lead in a sexual relationship. I think it would be best that each person be the best that they can be and work out each relationship as they go. If you are good with money, then do the finances. If you are great at folding clothes then do the laundry, etc... Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. And men would be smart to let women take over in their areas of expertise. Why not take advantage of having a great partner that can make your relationship run smoothly?
 adora71
Joined: 2/8/2010
Msg: 72
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:51:41 PM
I think it is an interesting idea. It is not about domination, but leadership. Everyone keeps talking about partnerships and I agree that partnerships are the best. But here is an example from my own experience:
My ex husband and I were a one car family for many years (not enough dough to run two).
He liked pick up trucks. I wasn't so crazy about them.

In our thirteen years of sharing cars, we owned 2 pick up trucks, and 2 minivans. We had an agreement that we took turns picking the vehicles when it was time to replace. It was all about achieving equality in household decisions. But there was always contention around the choice. He thought a minivan or a family car emasculated him and I didn't like my groceries rolling around in the back of the truck, or having to sit in the middle when we put the carseat in.

There are literally thousands of decisions that have to be made regularly when you share a household. Compromise and mutual goodwill go a long way, but most of the relationships that I have seen have one partner that has a slightly stronger "will." Why shouldn't that person be a woman?
 moutainbreeze
Joined: 10/19/2011
Msg: 73
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:01:22 PM
Sounds like a relationship that Wiccan or women into witchcraft create. I have been approached by quite a few of these emasculated men on here. They often make comments about wanting to know what I want so they can be that. EHW.. gross.

Someone subjugating their will to another human being is perverse. Those who seek that in another human being has serious mental illness. I want a man who is a man, not a sidekick. Seriously, the men who want this sort of thing are just too passive and weakminded for me,' and if it came right down to it am I going to have to tell him to step up and protect his own me? My kids? His own kids? if some pervy burglar breaks in he house? Forget that.

A man needs to be a man. My dog, on the other hand, better be under my command. And I do not date dogs.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 74
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:50:55 PM
This whole man who is a man thing and woman who is a woman stuff is such a rim job.

Can a woman cut a lawn and not be a lesbian - sho nuff.
Can a man cry at a movie and not be a drag queen - you betcha.

What is a "man who is a man". A guy that bites concrete and fist pumps himself when he catches his bicep flexing - no thanks.
And in turn a "woman who is a woman" must adore pink and have an instinct to play an oral tease anytime a banana is within 2 feet of her. Don't think it's in me.

Will someone lay out what a "man being a man" is that believe in it or have stated it already since people keep saying it - I'd be curious if you all even consider it the same qualities.
 aussiesealady
Joined: 11/10/2011
Msg: 75
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:42:28 PM
If I understand what is really meant by a FLR then I have been in them and seen them.

For example:
I proposed to my (now ex) husband.
For some of our marriage I earned more money than him, and have earned more money than many men I have met since.
I often ask men out, to dance and may I join them.
I am the one in my marriage who chose the garden plants, paint, carpet, curtains, mowed the lawn, repaired the fuse and a number of other things.

I felt that we had a pretty close to 50:50 relationship as he had a lot of skills and attributes that balanced mine and we were very happy for a lot of years.

I also know a lot of women in the same situation and some who have controlled all the finances. To the extent that my grandfather would hand over his unopened pay packet to my grandmother each week and she would give him an allowance.

Even though I know a lot of very strong women, none... and I mean none of us belittle or dominate our men. EVER!!!

We all love men. We always ask their opinions, often they don't really care what colour the inside of the kitchen cupboards get painted so just say ' "Whatever you want is fine." Same for many such decisions.


I COULD NOT STAND TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE MY LIFE IS RUN BY ANYONE, OR I RAN ANYONE ELSES.

I will add that I have met many men who live by the adage
"Happy Wife
Happy Life"

Are they in a FLR?
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