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 Silverhawk_tkn
Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 101
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FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Women don't want to win, they want a winner.. In relationships. And eventually, a man letting his woman "run" evverything.. She will lose respect for him. Boiling it down to nature, women respect hunters, go getters, etc.

There's a reason why men are ABLE to pimp, why kings have queens. They can be second. No such thing as queendom.

No such thing as a queen making a king, or how one of the posters put, a "consort",
And no such thing as a man getting pimped by his girl.


....spot on!!

....and do NOT let feminist extremists cloud the waters on this. There is enough talk about men being passive in another thread floating around here.......I want no part of it!!

I am a King. With balls.

I have a Queen (not a "consort"...). Shes really nice.

We get along. It works well.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 102
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 4:25:11 AM
Lets keep in mind that the ONLY reason men were able to keep women down for thousands of years was not based on lack of leadership, intelligence, or ability by women but by brute strength.

Let's NOT keep that in mind. If this was true and not a feminist cliche there would be no women like Cleopatra, Joan of Arc or Catherine the Great.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 103
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 4:38:12 AM
Whats been most amazing about this entire thread is:
*The chest-thumping men seemingly afraid to honor the women their involved with by stepping back and considering in this day and age the equality of women not just in the work place but also in the home.
**The women that appear to agree with those very same chest-thumping men seemingly out of some sense of nostagia and order. Its a new day.
***The unwillingness of some to even consider a different approach to relationships.

Now if you went on the net and googled FLR I understand why you'd object to such an arrangement. But if you step back consider yourself and your potential partner in a relationship and shaped the relationship around you and your partner, acknowledge the strengths of each and proceed from there you may be moving in the direction of a very nice union...just my opinion.

I dont want the woman Im involved with to ever believe she has to take a backseat to me, my career, my whims and fancy. I dont want the woman Im involved with to think after a hard day at work she automatically comes home to take care of evrything thing else in our lives together....isnt that the traditional relationship we all secretly believe it has to be? I dont believe that and as a man, a real man, I'll make whatever adjustments in my life to demonstrate to the woman Im with she is empowered to make choices, besides staying or leaving the relationship.

Im sure Gwendolyn is going to copy and paste her behind off after this post.....lolol
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 104
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FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 4:57:18 AM

Let's NOT keep that in mind. If this was true and not a feminist cliche there would be no women like Cleopatra, Joan of Arc or Catherine the Great.


Really over the course of 4 thousand years, you come up with 3 women, 2 of whom belonged to royal families and in courts that were rife with murder to get a position, the other was a girl who was eventually murdered by the church becasue she was no longer of use and a potential threat to the church because of the status she was starting to aquire. Thats it?

The very fact that you refuse to admit that women were kept down is indicative of your inability to accept the truth. No wonder it was allowed to happen for so long, because it worked for so many men apparently.
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 105
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:12:01 AM
Leading today is very complicated. I'll give an example. Twice, I fell in love with women with children that weren't mine biologically, I see the kids learning horrible stuff at school, they want their real dads, so they got that to contend with and often need counciling, and they're just driving their moms crazy, acting out when they come home from their father's, and failing school. These are perfectly good children, beautiful kids, that are intelligent and can talk about anything. I see their homework and its basically gobbily gook, while science comes out and says children should be learning other languages by then, and doing advanced math because their brains are like spounges. They are taught in school to give their money to the corrupt banks on Wall St., and get in huge debts to go to college which isn't really even necessary unless you're going to be a surgeon or something, in an economy that's talking about food service industry jobs, and outsourcing anything they can. That's what on the job traing used to be for. I say alright, lets homeschool then. They do think about it but they say naahh I can't do that, its always I can't, I can't. They don't work they could do it, I would help them, but they don't even want to TRY something new, and I don't blame them, whenever you try to brake away from this corrupt system, and do things right you're called extreme, or crazy, and the schools and government come after you. So, if you're a real man today, and you were to just stand right up to the system, you better have money for court and lawyers, and free time to do it all, or be ready for the S.W.A.T. to come shoot you basically, unless all them men kind of realize what's going on together and all stand up at once, and just peacefully say "NO". and start homeschooling our children, using the internet what it should be intended for, learning, networking, passing on news and important info. I have to find a woman who is already ahead of the game. I don't see many talking about important issues like this on POF.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 106
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:12:25 AM
Let's NOT keep that in mind. If this was true and not a feminist cliche there would be no women like Cleopatra, Joan of Arc or Catherine the Great.

Feminist isn't really a dirty word, it just means that you think women should have equal rights as men - don't you?

It's not that it is a cliche but the average Jane did have little say in things. If you recall that women didn't have much pull in the general population of the US from 1780-1920 ish and that's what women talk about when you see them mention women vs men and the abilities to prosper equally.

It started with the old west and madames - once women started selling the services of other women I think people began to realize that we can be just as money driven as others.

Some women used men for money by marrying wealth because they couldn't make it themselves or were educated in the finer arts instead of money matters. Some still do seek out men to support them but some women choose to go out and find their own ways of making money so you get called independent and feminist just because you don't look for a hand-out. It's really no win but I chose the side where I make my own even if someone might occasionally label it something.

Once suffrage hit the men they were starting to soften up a bit because they did know their women to be smart enough to contribute their opinions. Ada Lovelace was the first real programmer and she was female - this industry is heavily dominated by men and I have to overperform to get my credit regularly. It took me about 2 years to prove to my current boss that I wasn't just playing around with this stuff - I knew what I was doing. I asked for two raises - the last one he sprung on me because he knew I deserved it. That was a nice feeling and finally let me know that he accepted my skill level.

Now he put me in a position to school others but I had to prove myself for the position. I've seen men come into the company and they automatically get rank without showing effort. We still have a glass ceiling to battle that men don't understand. Even at work I have to be careful that nothing done is inappropriate and his wife could take incorrectly since there are times when it's only boss man and myself alone late nights when we take websites offline to fix server issues. This is something he wouldn't have to deal with if he kept a male in the top position so I try to ensure that it's never an issue for him. I don't wear clothing that could be misconstrued as a come-on. I don't giggle with him and I try not to talk about my personal life at all lest it all become too friendly.

Women in the workplace don't have everything worked out perfectly but it's an improvement over the old days. It's not that women want to be flaming feminist about it but we are aware that we must overperform in some fields to be taken seriously. Physical markets are the same - construction work, masonry, traditional men careers. I worked my way up from factory assembly lines to general office work then finally where I am and I've seen every type of male coworker along the way - many of them thought me to naturally be weak and stupid - they had to be taught anything other.

Bah I'm not trying to change the subject here - just giving you some info and I think that some of the tactics we have learned at jobs seep into our personal lives if that makes sense. If we can get respect at a job then come home to find that our partner thinks that we should want to do housework and they can do yardwork - they might have a conference about that :P After all - housework is more demanding - yard work is only a few times a week.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 107
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:25:30 AM
Rach, seriously isnt 50/50 a concept of relationships as well. Im not opposed to 50/50 but that seems just as idealistic as anything else....great in theory.

Im 51, children arent an issue and dont play into this thread.

Even in this so-called equal partnership arent women giving up education, sacraficing careers, burdened with routine and mundane household things, while men stick with tradition? Rest easily on "thats how its always been"?

I dont know what the other guy is going on about....homeschooling?? say what?
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 108
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:31:01 AM
I would say with all the fatherless homes in America, females are leading, so I don't know what you're going on about really.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 109
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:40:04 AM
CoS....just following the thread.....homeschooling is a subject I can be very passionate about....just no place in this thread. But, threads take on a life of their own.

Perhaps your desire to make fundamental changes to the lives of the women with children youre dating is inhibiting your relationship progress...
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 110
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:52:45 AM
I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to the people who are saying that a man should just lead. I'm saying in a situation where the children aren't yours which is common these days. I meet women my age all the time who have kids 8 or 10 yrs old, sometimes younger. They say they want a man who leads, but then when you try in a situation, like the one I mentioned, and they're too afraid to make that kind of change in a situation that is making them unhappy, and inturn me unhappy, so they go along to get along, and nothing changes, and the family suffers.

I tend to meet a lot of women with children. So, to me this is an issue. It brakes my heart so much thinking about it, I can't even talk about it.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 111
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:03:58 AM

I tend to meet a lot of women with children. So, to me this is an issue. It brakes my heart so much thinking about it, I can't even talk about it.

Don't think they didn't know what they were doing when they had children. It's a decision that you are aware of for 9 months. There are the exceptions of a male parent dying or abandoning them but the majority of the time these are people that had children without a commitment of marriage. Both parties are to blame when they think it will be easy to have kids and let it happen so easily.

It is worth a tear - but for the children - not the adults that knew what they were doing. Luckily there are mentoring programs like big brother/big sister that you can enroll your kids in if they need an offsex mentor that you can't supply. I've seen more men taking on kids from worthless mothers too so men come with children too. Most of them talk about how they want a female around to mother the kids so they are singing the same song. I don't think they mean that they want a woman to come into things and run the house - they just want her to talk about periods lol That might be the difference is that you are misunderstanding the role they want someone to fill.
 CulturedBlackMan
Joined: 2/20/2012
Msg: 112
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:04:29 AM
Hate to hear your heart is breaking, but its been my experience dating women with children means your primary role is to support the mother and befriend the children. You have no place even making suggestions about HER childrens education. This is where you listen, support and keep your fixing to yourself........now Im way off topic
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 113
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:54:17 AM
Feminists keep on insulting women of past generations. They ware so weak and subjugated they couldn't stand up to this 'monstrous male oppressor'. Really?



Feminist isn't really a dirty word

Perhaps that's the problem. If it was, men would find it attractive and use it in bed.


It's not that it is a cliche but the average Jane did have little say in things.

If you're talking about political influence. Peasants and slaves didn't have rights. It was a class issue, not gender. Women status was always similar to mens. Not below men, not under. Beside him.


Women in the workplace don't have everything worked out perfectly but it's an improvement over the old days.

If by 'old days' you mean before industrial revolution women worked just like men.
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 114
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:59:31 AM
I have no place telling them how to school their children, unless they say otherwise, which they tell me I have authority, I make sure they say it and agree to it before I get involved. I'm not going to walk into a situation unless I have SOME control dude, I'm a human being. I don't have to have all the control, but I'm not just along for the ride. I always make sure that is clear in the beginning of the relationship before we go into it, many times at the woman's reqest for committment because she likes me so much, and wants to be exclusive with me. I say, you have to promise that you make sure the children are on the same page as us. Its a lot to ask considering the traditional family is completely made fun of now in the media, and the corrupt television culture is what's popular in school, so to have a traditional family with an informed strong man is going to be practically impossible. Especially the way father's are represented on pop culture television shows. You're working against the tide man. period.
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 115
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:10:18 AM
I grew up in a house with 3 women (mother & 2 sisters). When I was about 12 I had my first interaction with a feminist through my sisters (they were 10 & 14). I was called a male chaeuvenist repeadedly throughout our growing years (we were all moved out by the time I was 20). All those years I heard them say I was a chaeuvenist, I denied it, and went out and did my thing. Never even giving it a second thought. I was even told "Don't ever leave your wife and kids like daddy did to mom." Both sisters later divorced (they both initiated), and to this day want to marry. Go figure. When I divorced I was called every bad name in the book. They also tried to strike the fear of God in me by saying she'll get this, and this, and that; so you better not leave. This was a turning point in my life as I started confronting them. No longer was the conversation going to be one-way. I told them that for years I denied being a chaeuvenist, and now I am one. I don't hold women back, I'm not an employer, I'm not your husband, I owe you nothing. Life is hard, get used to it. I'm a proud chaeuvenist because I have no use for weak, whining women who manipulate the actions of others, but are free to do as they choose. I don't owe you a damn thing. My sisters aren't vocal about it anymore, but I'm sure they have the same thoughts in their heads. Knowing how they feel about the opposite sex, the only reason they'd want to marry is to dominate. I just don't want to hear it. For me, a feminist is a woman with an axe to grind, and will take it up with the nearest available male. My condolences if you have to live with one of them. On a postive note, you know where the door is. Exit, stage left. A dose of reality, they don't act like that if you don't live with them (except on boards like this). Share a household and the hammer comes down. Remove dominance with seperate households. Life doesn't get any sweeter than being with an independent, self-supporting woman who doesn't want to move in. Unfortunatly, you usually won't find that until you are in your 40's. FLR/MLR only applies when you live together.
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 116
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:24:34 AM
and there is the famous walk away advice. Not that I don't agree with you, but I don't think the women understand when you're a man the contradictory advice you here OMG, I have to laugh its become so absurd...but bascially its, Men gotta committ, oh, walk away, but men should be more committed....oh, she's giving you a hard time then walk away...but be committed and be a strong male, lead the family...oh, there's a problem, find someone else....

you can't make this sh*t up man...this society is like skitzo now. Do this, but don't do it, oh wait, do that, but don't....

So what is men's role now. I think its completely undefined. They took a way our former role, but then never really made it clear what our new one is. I'll tell you what it is, its knock the woman up and have a baby to flip burgers for the rich, then get the hell away from the family you strong, capable, protective male, so we can brainwash your kids, and come and even take them if we want because of a dirty dish in the sink, without having to worry about the warrior in the family doing something about it. Just my opinion.
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 117
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:30:11 AM
So what is men's role now. I think its completely undefined. They took a way our former role, but then never really made it clear what our new one is.
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I can't believe your saying this. Do you really want to be fulfilling a role? One that is defined by someone other than you? I think you are at a starting point and know that you have to make adjustments. What bothers me is that you don't know how to start and need someone else to define you. Are you that dependent on women?
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 118
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:38:35 AM
That was rhetorical question as far as what men's roles are. No, I'm not dependent on women, our society is dependent on strong families that work as teams, not broken homes.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 119
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 9:39:07 AM

So what is men's role now. I think its completely undefined. They took a way our former role, but then never really made it clear what our new one is.

Try living outside a desired "role" and just being you. Try to accept being appreciated for WHO YOU ARE, not what you do.

It seems like some men are lost if they have no idea what they can do for you. Why is this? It's nowhere near 1957 anymore, so it's not something new for guys to adjust to.
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 120
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:21:13 AM
My desired role is to have a loving relationship with a woman and a family and equality, but my point is society is not condusive to it now, and that the advice out there when it comes to it is very contradictory. Women are told men don't like commitment, and men are told, first sign of trouble leave, walk away, find someone else, basically, or let the woman have her way. That's not equality or a relationship, that's a trap for men, lol.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 121
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:27:10 AM

My desired role


Well Know Your Role and SHUT YOUR MOUTH! *trademarks to The Rock*

Actually, society has nothing to do with it; people are telling other people to do it, and other people are listenning. Someone jaded tells someone whos not to watch out; if it goes haywire, because someone makes a mistake (usually because they are young, lack experience, or are just morons) then that un-jaded person becomes jaded him or herself. And the wheel turns and goes on.
Society, basically, does NOTHING. That's another sad thing, NOTHING at all. I think our governement has a role to play in keeping the basic unit "the family" going in a society where its becoming rarer, just for the sake of promulgating the human race. Because once the undevelloped countries become develloped as well, and THEIR birthrate plummets down as much as that of Western societies...well THEN we might have problems with human race survival.
But anyways, thats just an idea, and besides the point.
I refuse a female led relationship. It should be a team effort, I stand by my point. No one is boos, or everyone is
 CircleofStones
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 122
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:44:09 AM
I actually know what is going on. I'm just debating and asking rhetorical questions. I see 20 mil fatherless homes, not 10 mil motherless, and 10 mil fatherless or something a little more realistic which would reflect who is the screw up in the relationship which should be about equal according to other statistics proving that women and men cheat about the same. Female abusers are on the rise now coming close to equal with men (but that's not hardly even talked about, creating a double standard against men). In fact, sorry ladies, but a lot of times now, the wife or girl friend gets caught cheating, goes straight to the court says she's in fear of her life, and gets a restraining order. This happens a lot now but I digress. I see a bunch of propaganda and stereotyping of men and women being pushed in the media so no one will commit, and men and women will blame eachother, the kids lose, and eventually the country. I think its population control. If the government is supposed to help keep the family going we're screwed. but the courts are part of the government, and they seem to be biased against men with all the fatherless families out there. I don't believe men are all that bad. I think people are just people. I think they want the protectors out of the homes because women and children are easier to manipulate for them.
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 123
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:48:15 AM
I think its population control.
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I had no doubt that you would eventually figure this out.
 roylee42
Joined: 2/11/2012
Msg: 124
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:51:20 AM
I had to go check this out. You don’t think this sounds a bit dysfunctional? What type of person male or female would say, “You go ahead and decide what’s best for me.” I’ve only met one woman in my life who felt and insisted that things be this way. I told her I already have two kids I’m not looking for another.

This seems like a great plan for someone who does not want to be responsible at all if a bad decision is made. They can sit back and blame it on the other person. Personally I’ve never met anyone in a “led relationship” that was happy. They are always complaining about the one who is doing the leading. I personally feel they are unhappy with themselves for being to weak to take the risk of making their own choices. To each their own but I personally feel both parties need to contribute equally if there is going to be any happiness found.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 125
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History
FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:52:00 AM
The most interesting thing about this subject to me is how much it comes up. Why are so many people so conscious of the balance of power between themselves and other people, at least in personal relationships? And so often, it seems like there's no middle ground--it's either at your throat, or at your feet.

I don't want to feel the girl I'm with is forever trying either to run things, or to have me run them. There should be a mood of natural, easy accommodation. From what I've seen, the women who are the most preoccupied with who is where on the totem pole in relationships are the most fearful. Men too, I suspect. Exactly what they're afraid of, I'm not sure, but I suspect it has something to do with being hurt or rejected.

When getting along feels that complicated and takes that much conscious effort, you can't relax and have fun together. You can be strong and positive in a pleasant, friendly way, and it should never mean being overbearing or inconsiderate or unkind. It's good to be gracious with anyone you have feelings for--power struggles are for adversaries.
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