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Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 151
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FLR...Female-Led-Relationships.Page 7 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

If you believe the media, it is has spoken: Guys, your reign has ended:

Maybe women will be better to you than you were to us, and maybe . . . not.

Men, why not look at this an opportunity to be better and take advantage of this situation? I don't understand why men are so complacent about this......

Focus on yourself and be the best you can be. You'll be amazed at what happens when you worry less about what women are doing and more about what you are NOT doing (or doing badly).

Self confidence is a great tool to get places in life, and the best way to get that is to focus on making sure you are the best you can be, despite what is going on around you.

Hmmm.....I don't see alot of women in this thread scrambling to line up in the "yes" camp for FLR's (with the exception of the feminists)......that should tell the guys that there is a TON of opportunity to grab a pair of balls, be a man, and lead........

As for how the media and pop-culture portrays men, I'm all too happy to speak out and tell my kids that this is how things should NOT be...........and use it as a motivational point to make sure they never end up a bumbling fool for comic relief in the relationship........

I found it interesting, even in Gwen's reference to the "3 types of women" in her link, the third and final "Alpha Female" type is pre-disposed to buying anti-depressants.........hmmmm.....wonder why that would be?......LOL!! There are definitely cracks in that foundation.........

.......there is LOTS of room for guys to lead. Take the opportunity and do it........
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 152
Posted: 2/29/2012 9:33:05 AM
Lead who and reign over what? Hey, guys are always free to lead and reign over their own lives - no one ever took that away from them (generally unless they were forced into captivity or aren't functional adults).

In a relationship they are free to lead on their side of the balance for what affects them, just as women should lead on their side of the balance for what affects them.

There are couples where one chooses to give the lead to the other and the other chooses to take it - and in that situation that's their choice.

Beyond that there's not much to discuss...
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 153
Posted: 2/29/2012 9:34:39 AM


I think that's redundant. You just haven't noticed it yet because women are good at making guys think the guys are running the show.
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 154
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Posted: 2/29/2012 10:21:13 AM
""Alpha Female" type is pre-disposed to buying anti-depressants.........hmmmm.....wonder why that would be?...."

This Alpha Female (and all the female Alpha's I know) haven't taken an anti-depressant ever.
Taken anti-depressants simple means that the person isn't Alpha at all. Anti-depressants would never be part of an Alpha's make up.

No cracks in the foundation of my life, or the male and females I know. We don't play into the hype. We do what is necessary to have functional relationships. We are all about equality with people we choose to be with. No leaders, no followers wanted or needed.
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 155
Posted: 2/29/2012 12:16:43 PM
no. there is no relationship leader. its 50/50. and untill you learn that your gonna need a site like this. not that i can talk, but im on here for a bit of a diff reason. scared to argue? grow some nuts. if you really cant argue and compromise and learn from it then u might as well jackoff to a yesman porno. gg OP. grow a pair
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 156
Posted: 3/1/2012 11:36:10 AM

Hmmm.....I don't see alot of women in this thread scrambling to line up in the "yes" camp for FLR's (with the exception of the feminists)......that should tell the guys that there is a TON of opportunity to grab a pair of balls, be a man, and lead........

Wait a minute! I am a feminist, and I don't want to lead in a relationship, but neither do I want (or will I) be led.

It doesn't take balls to lead: if it did, then there would be NO women leaders--period.

.......there is LOTS of room for guys to lead. Take the opportunity and do it........

As I have said for a VERY long time in these forums, I don't understand why the women who want traditional (old fashioned) marriages can't hook up with the men who also want them. Those women complain that "men won't lead" and the men complain that "women won't follow." What is their problem? Why can't they seem to hook-up?

I had a widowed, retired landlady decades ago who told me that she had always worked, but when she did, she gave her paycheck over to her husband and only saw the money that he allotted for her to buy groceries: how many women are willing to work and hand the paycheck over to the husband and only have an allowance? How many men are willing for their wives to stay at home and make NO monetary contributions?

the third and final "Alpha Female" type is pre-disposed to buying anti-depressants.........hmmmm.....wonder why that would be?.

I can only speak from personal experience, but by far, the women whom I know who take anti-depressants are married women! Clinical depression runs in my maternal side of the family and when I was married, I often had periods of depression; in the last six years (since my last long-term relationship ended), I have only been depressed when there is a death, etc.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 157
Posted: 3/1/2012 11:54:29 AM

Alpha Female

LMAO What the hell IS this...that`s an invented word right? Because I never in my life have met one lol. "Leader of the pact"-like woman, nada. Met Independent women, proud women, shy women, all types of women, with a varying degree of self-autonomy (too little in most cases, in my opinion, sadly) yet never an"Alpha" type female. What IS that supposed to be?
Or am I just that stupid and need to get out more?
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 158
Posted: 3/1/2012 1:21:31 PM

LMAO What the hell IS this...that`s an invented word right? Because I never in my life have met one lol. "Leader of the pact"-like woman, nada.

You have NEVER met a woman who was able to willing to lead others? Or do you just mean in a marriage?
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 159
Posted: 5/6/2012 1:49:46 PM
Most people just don't get it. FLR has many levels to it. You just don't get in one and are a slave. It is all about the Relationship you have. You have to love each other in order for a relationship to work.

I know some guys and women have a hard time with this but look at it. Alpha types in the workplace sometimes like to reverse the role when they get home.

If you break it down, there are usually 4 levels to FLR 1-4 and then the extreme is above 4. Most women that know about FLR are in the 3-4 stage with just a little 4, but again the male needs to agree to this as the relationship grows, you just don't tell someone to do something crazy and they do it. From what I have read, couples in the 1-2 range find it rewarding to move to the 3 stage and are happily married there. They go about their work as they normally would but when the day comes to them, the guy makes sure the woman in the relationship is taken care of 100%. Never let her tea cup be empty or let her pour her own tea. That is grounds for punishment. But in general, being a gentleman is what most women like, treat them right.
Joined: 8/8/2011
Msg: 160
Posted: 5/6/2012 2:29:14 PM
If I wanted to be in a FLR...I'd move back in with my mother.

Still that crazy woman HAS managed to keep my dad around for 30+ years. I guess you shouldn't knock a method if you can't knock the results.
Joined: 4/11/2012
Msg: 161
Posted: 5/6/2012 2:57:16 PM
Oh, brother....
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 162
Posted: 5/6/2012 3:31:44 PM
I told you, you could have the garage!Nah, Just kidding;.I'd rather have a relationship with a MAN, not a child, not a mama's boy, but also a MAN who respects me and doesn't try to compensate for a lack of adulthood by undermining me. I'd rather be encouraged than suppressed. I imagine the 'he' would feel the same way.
Joined: 4/2/2011
Msg: 163
Posted: 5/6/2012 5:14:46 PM
oohhhhh boy.. i completely forgot about this subject, but i saw things i could get back to.

what i was saying in earlier posts.. women aren't INITIALLY meant to understand it. they LEARN to through a guy.

So, the fact that I am an educator and am making MYSELF valuable to society doesn't mean jack poop because I am not a man? In order for me to be fulfilled, I need to find a man who is a "winner"?

It also appears that you relate material value to "winners." What about the guy who is serving soup down at the Victory Mission and is making himself valuable to the least desirables of society?

You being an EDucator, is WHO you've made yourself into, WHAT you are is a woman. we aren't talking about WHO. we are talking about WHAT.. What is the type of person who wants to lead a relationship? females, one in particular, WHO is an educator. you are valuable to society regardless of WHO you are, because your a woman. BEING a woman, however, doesn't make you SPECIAL. it's just a god given role for you to fulfill. you were either going to be a boy, or you were going to be a girl. I say in that statement, that in order for you to REMAIN HAPPY in a relationship WITH a MAN.. he needs to be a WINNER to YOU!.. you need to feel he is BETTER than YOU. a woman's nature is to ESCHEW anything lower than herself. so that guy in the soup kitchen that you mentioned? you wouldn't STAY in relationship with him for LONG.
what you did with that statement is TWIST it out of context.. a woman trick that is annoying as it is ****ed up, and it's easy for guys to miss and not catch you on it.

For one, you don't express yourself well and half the time, I don't understand your points.

Two, your thinking is dysfunctional because it belongs with the era of the dinosaurs. I am old and have seen female/male relationships change drastically in my lifetime: you sound like a holdover from the 50s.

Three, ask YOURSELF, not me, why you feel the need to rationalize to me what you say. I suppose you sense a superior presence and want to placate or please me.

Four, I don't care if you change your thinking. You are entitled to your opinion regardless of how antiquated and sexist it is.

i've been reasonable in my explanation. You've provided NOTHINg but your say SO , which is what women DO. where is your reasoning for what your saying??

on top of that, you've gone to your NEXT level, which is to MARGINALIZE what i'm saying, in order to Dismiss what i'm saying, instead of really taking a look at it, and discussing it!

I've asked myself these things which is why i've come to the conclusion that i have, after really being real with myself, boiling all the horseshit down to what IS. where have you ever DONE that? i'm not rationalizing it, or discussing it with myself, i'm telling YOU WHY female relationships will ULTIMATELY FAIL. and i'm discussing it without marginalizing you, calling names or other goofy shit women do. not only that, i'm calling out your next moves.

the point that you don't care about what i've said is the Exactly what i'm saying about women in other posts.. you don't give a SHIt about what men are, or how they think, but you want to CONTROL AND CREATE what they SHOULD BE, never interested in learning what they ACTUALLY are.. because most women MAKE MOVIES.. STARRING THEM and directed BY THEm.

WHERE have you ever!! heard a fish eating or beating a living shark?

Someone mentioned earlier about guys subjecting women to lower roles back in the day through BRUTE force.. and to answer that, yes they did that, i don't agree with it, but it was done. and what women don't understand is that at the end of the day, THAT brute force is what guys have OVER women.

As Thoreau said, most men lead lives of quiet desperation. The guy working at a factory is no more of a hunter/winner than his wife working at the same factory. "Naturally speaking," the gatherer was just as important to the tribe as was the hunter. Naturally speaking, the lioness does the hunting. Naturally speaking, the female alpha wolf rules the pack. Naturally speaking, the female black widow and praying mantis eats the male. Naturally speaking, matriarchal societies (including Native Americans) exist.

Not only that, cultural "hunters" replaced "hunting" hunters some time ago. I am a hunter in my own right. When I find a partner, I won't give up my hunting status to feed his ego, nor will he even think of asking me to do so because his ego will be large enough to understand a marriage or relationship is a partnership: I am not a child and he is not a child--neither of us need to be led like one. We will not be a king and a queen but humans sharing a life

quiet lives of desperation... sigh- this is a woman without an understanding of the hunger that a guy possesses. THAt is the quiet desperation, the need to fulfill that hunger. when your hungry, you automatically find food right? the same applies to sex-for MEN.

Naturally speaking, your talking about ROLES. and those ROLES given to the female in those animals, however, that doesn't make them LEADERS. the lioness does hunting, but the male RUNS the PRIDE, protects it from danger, and other things. you NEVER EVER see a lionness coming along, and TAKING OVER another lions pack or pride.
Naturally speaking, the alpha MALE runs things in a pack of wolves, UNLESS he is not present...

and yea bring yourself down to spiders and bugs i can squash.

marriage and relationships are obviously partnerships.. we are talking about WOMEN LED relationships, and your turning the conversation into something else because that is where your emotions are guiding you. MEN LEAD WOMEN. there are examples of it everywhere. why women these days continue to fight about it.. is hilarious to me.. but naturally speaking, it is what it is.
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 164
Posted: 5/6/2012 5:46:02 PM
^^^ WHY do you SHOUt so MUCH and with such RANDOM punctuation and SPELLing...?

Your delivery really interferes with the points that you're trying to make.
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 165
Posted: 5/6/2012 8:47:31 PM
Some years ago, on a different dating site, I was approached by a man looking for a woman to be the lead in a FLR. Yes, there's a lot of bs on the web about it. There is no such thing as a 'typical' FLR. It's a continuum from Captain/First Mate where the Captain happens to be the woman instead of the man to the dominatrix extreme.

I was curious so I met him. He was a 'normal' looking, upper-middle class business executive and we had a lot of things in common. As we talked, however, it became apparent what end of the continuum he was looking for and I knew I wasn't interested in being served.

For days afterward I thought a lot about what I'd read on various websites (and a book titled Venus on Top) and my reaction to this man's request. Bottom line for me was I don't want to be the lead in my relationship. I have to be the lead at work - it's my job so I accept that. But, in a long term male/female intimate relationship, I would rather be First Mate than Captain. That is NOT saying I will be subservient. It is saying that I want my opinion to be considered but most of the time I don't want the helm.

Has nothing to do with whether I was raised to be independent or self-reliant (can't remember who posted that but he totally missed the point). I am quite independent and can take care of myself; I've been doing it for years quite nicely. When needed, I'm capable of taking the helm.

For those who say they want an equal relationship I'd offer there is no such thing. When a decision has to be made and the participants want different things, someone will get to make the final decision - they get to be on top for that decision. In a traditional relationship, that's most often the male. I a FLR, that will be the female most often. Even if 'he' gets to decide today's decision and 'she' gets to decide tomorrow's decision, that is not equal - it is alternating, it is a see saw.
Joined: 3/22/2012
Msg: 166
Posted: 5/6/2012 9:19:50 PM
This is the first I have heard of something that has been quite prevalent, especially in my mother's generation. She is now 75.
I watched her run the show everyday of my life. She took care of the bills, took my dad's cheque, invested any extra wisely, made the decisions of when, where, how and what money was spent on. She planned all meals and we all ate what was put in front of us regardless whether it was awful or not. She planned where we lived and when we moved and oversaw that. All major furniture/appliances were planned and made by her. vacations were planned by her.
My dad was given an allowance and told to go have fun when he wasn't working.
They got along beautifully. He treasured her.
I work at a large retail food store. I have come to see quite alot of different dynamics within couples who cross my till. In conversation with many of them (we are encouraged to do..) I find that the "nerdy, less confident, and milksop type of men" are the ones who stand there watching the prices on the screen while their wives unload all the groceries onto the belt and then watch them load them back into the cart after bagging. Some of these articles are very heavy!! Nope, they just stand there with the money or credit card while the wife does the donkey work....looking arrogantly down their nose at me and telling me pointedly about the sale items ..which I have to "sigh"...... tell them that the computer knows all about those sale items and it will compute them properly by the time the total is rung. This is done to make them look like they are in charge of the situation to the subservient wife who keeps a blank look on her face.
To me this is wrong! It feels ugly. But, there are many who live like this and believe it should be this way.
I have seen many self-confident males come shopping with their wives and she's in the driver's seat. He's happier than a clam.
IMO, FLR are great...just not to an extreme where the man is emascualted.
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 167
Posted: 5/6/2012 11:50:56 PM
Uh, no thanks, no how, no way! I would prefer a give and take relationship where each of us make decisions, sometimes together, sometimes one or the other chooses. I could have a FLR in times of ill health, or some other particular circumstance, but not as an all the time thing.
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 168
Posted: 5/7/2012 4:34:03 AM

^^^ WHY do you SHOUt so MUCH and with such RANDOM punctuation and SPELLing...?

Your delivery really interferes with the points that you're trying to make.

No kidding. It made me have visions of being yelled at by William Shatner.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 169
Posted: 5/7/2012 6:20:37 AM

You have NEVER met a woman who was able to willing to lead others? Or do you just mean in a marriage?

Havent been on this thread in a while, and I saw this lol. OKay, let me specify a bit what I mean; in my experience up until this point, when we`re talking about a relationship (not marriage, as I`ve never been married), I have yet to meet what you could consider an "Alpha Female". Until this point in my life, anyone I have been, or ever considered being, in a relationship with, has never been an Alpha Female in the sense that she would take control, or take guidance, or any type of "leadership" qualities associated with the typical "Alpha Male" type of stereotyping. At best I`ve met women in a relationship you could consider Beta, proud of themselves and on equal ground in a relationship, but more often than not, even with women that are particularly headstrong, or, like was previously stated, in any other aspects of their lives would make Margaret Thatcher look like a choir girl, as soon as they get in a relationship they seem to....I dunno, erase themselves? Kind of live according to their boyfriend.
As a good example, I know this girl from high school, she`s a pro stripper (yeah, dont laugh LOL). Got 4 kids, pretty headstrong, intelligent and though girl, you CANNOT BS this girl. A 6'4 guy would cross her, she`d probably be able to make him cry to death lol. Yet, this same girl, when she met her ex and had her kids with him, would completely erase herself, and after a time, would allow the guy to beat her up when he became violent. Recently she met a new guy (ths italian ex was long ago) and she goes into the same type of pattern; she lets herself be lead. I don`t get it...
I don`t know if it means that the Alpha female doesnt exist, but it really sucks to see women "erase themselves" and adopt their bf's "leadership" as soon as they meet a guy. It completely changes their personnality, except with others. My ex boss would be Margaret Thatcher 2, but as soon as her husband walking in the place (shorter than her, sickly looking, brain the size of a toenail) she'd become a slave worthy of the Ancient Egyptian era...............
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 170
Posted: 5/7/2012 6:21:14 AM

No kidding. It made me have visions of being yelled at by William Shatner.

Which, I dunno about you,`d be DAMNED cool
Joined: 3/15/2012
Msg: 171
Posted: 5/7/2012 6:36:00 AM
I think girls in general are socially conditioned to believe that their needs and aspirations are not as important. From cradle to grave there are subtle covert messages and gender expectations crammed down our throats.
(So do boys BTW)

Who would want any gender leading any partnership endeavor? Personally I am an equalist, but with that comes responsibility and accountability. Better pull your own weight, in all aspects or be gone ;)
Self-sufficiency leads to the freedom of choice.

Remember, the most dangerous animal in the ALWAYS a mother.
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 172
Posted: 5/7/2012 10:10:35 AM
Hmmm, where to begin.

Ok, I'm 41, I had a family, I raised my kids. I provided 99% of everything for my ex-wife and our kids (plus her kids from previous marriage). For 18 years I am "the man". I paid the bills, I worked my butt off. Every time we went out, I would ask my (ex)wife "where would you like to eat?". If I ask someone for their opinion on something, I am either seeking input to make am informed decision or I have no opinion on the matter and will take the first suggestion. And her response nearly every time was "whatever you want".

Believe me, making every little decision on every little topic gets draining.

My lady I am seeing now has had a rough time with men. Physically abused, mentally abused, made to feel so bad about men I am surprised she is even giving me a chance to prove to her not all men are the same. But I am trying to show her some men are genuinely nice, caring, attentive and loving men.

In this relationship, I take her lead. I don't push, I don't do anything to make her feel she has to do anything she doesn't want to. Because she has had enough of that in her life. If she wants to go out, we go out. If she wants to eat in, we stay in. Intimacy came when she was ready and not a second sooner.

Does this make me **** whipped? I don't think so. I am simply respecting her wishes and being careful of her feelings due to her past. I can't prove a negative. I can't prove I will not do something. All I can do is continue to be me, and eventually she will see I will not turn on her and be the kind of man she thinks most men are.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 173
Posted: 5/7/2012 12:47:48 PM

Does this make me **** whipped? I don't think so

No, respecting someone is never bowing to her wishes. In fact I see in this relationship what I stated in a previous post; a man-led, or at the very least male driven, relationship. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's often the case.
Female-led relationships...I'd have to actually see one to believe it. And honeslty, the only time I ever did was with pretty old Italian couples (oh MAN, I do SO not want to grow old with an Italian lady, she'll chew my balls for breakfast and use them to play squash LOL)
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 174
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Posted: 5/7/2012 2:54:54 PM
In general, I've found that most women prefer a male to 'lead' in the relationship; what they really want is someone else to be responsible for things, because if things go wrong, they'd rather it not feel like it's their fault. Kind of like having a 'benevolent dictator' as a mate, someone who knows what she likes, and provides it without her having to do anything to bring it all about. It's one reason that so many women believe that if a man really loves her, he will automatically know what she wants without her ever having to tell him. Part of this is based on the experience of women being unhappy with decisions I've made, and will sulk, be passive aggressive, or act indifferent rather than open her mouth and actually say what it is that she's unhappy or unsatisfied with; they simply don't want to be responsible for decisions. I did read about a theory for it; that decisions can have much longer 'costs' for a woman if she makes a wrong one: That of picking a mate. If she picks the wrong guy, she can be stuck raising a child alone, or worse, being married to a guy who treats her terribly for many years. Men usually didn't have to worry about that as much, historically anyway (before the legal system created such financial penalties for not 'being responsible'), nor were they frequently in physical danger if they picked the wrong mate; men will usually just leave. Bad female mates don't usually become lunatic stalkers nearly as often as bad male mates do.
Joined: 12/11/2012
Msg: 175
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Posted: 1/15/2013 5:16:44 PM
This can also be known as Femdom and its a wonderful way to have a relationship
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