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 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 53
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Wearing the burka in the UK.Page 6 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I don't think anyone needs to "be afraid" of such people, any more than I'm "afraid" of motorcyclists, wearing 'full-face' crash-helmets.
I think we should just laugh at people's ridiculous beliefs, when they're ridiculous.
That may sound slightly cruel, but I also 'empathise' with their delusions, and feel slightly sorry for them. So my laughter is 'caring', in the same way I laughed when my children were frightened of 'ghosts', 'Ghouls', and monsters.

I also feel we should laugh at the beardy weirdies who promulgate such delusions; priests, mullahs, rabbis etc. Those men in fancy dress, who are the self-appointed champions of 'religion'.

Let's not forget that they ARE self-appointed, either.
They will tell you they have been "chosen by god", but the truth is, they have simply realised, that in a competitive society, someone as feeble-minded as they, couldn't possibly achieve any semblance of 'recognition', on merit alone.
They were typically, the bullied-at-school, and social misfits, who found it difficult to socialise. By elevating themselves to "priests" of some sort, they suddenly achieve status, recognition, and "respect", people are suddenly taking them seriously, something which they had always craved.

If they truly wanted to "help people", there are plenty of ways to do that. Care workers, medical workers, charity, and social workers give tirelessly of themselves, without demanding such "recognition", and many are atheists too.
The problem with "religion", is that it's a useful form of 'camouflage' for unscrupulous and dishonest people, as the child-abuse scandal, has recently demonstrated.

The problem IMO., is currently coming from the far-right, and the "established" religions, who seek to impose "conservatism", in the name of "culture", and "tradition" and "patriotism".
There is some irony that the EDL., use the "cross of st George", as their emblem, when the 'anglican' church, is one of the greatest champions, for the building of new mosques, as is the heir to the throne, and the head of state.

Both "Baroness Warsi", and the prime-minister, are trying to impose "christian values", and trying to imply that religion encourages only good things, and we should "embrace" other religions.
There is no place in the societies of the 21st century, for the deluded, superstitious beliefs and mythology, from the neolithic/bronze age. IMO

The poor deluded women who dress in such a way, are to be pitied, not "feared".
Smile benignly at them, pat them on the head, and tell them they have nothing to fear.

I look forward to a time, when the people spreading such gibberish, are no longer accorded any "respect", and "taken seriously", and 'reverentially', but rather psychoanalysed, and correctly diagnosed, and treated, ( sympathetically) and rehabilitated, to live normal, useful lives, without wasting large chunks of it, "praying" to imaginary sky-friends, growing beards, and dressing like ladies, whilst spouting the drug-addled ramblings, of the 'medicine-men' from the past.


 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 54
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/7/2012 5:14:59 AM

Thanks - I'm glad I'm not the only female that it annoys.

Why the word female? Let me explain.....I believe that women have more of a problem with the burkha simply because it doesn't give them the opportunity to size up their competition...simple really. If you were more confident in your own skin, you wouldn't be so wrapped up in what others are wearing.


I also do not "buy" the reasons given for its use.

And unless you're Muslim, you don't need to buy anything, because it shouldn't concern you.

I didn't read the whole thread, I don't have time right now, but I would just like to say that I really don't get this. Nobody is hurting you by wearing a particular garment, so why concern yourself with it?

Oh, by the way, I'd be quite offended by seeing a man in a kilt with nothing underneath, especially in windy Scotland and if my kids were present, but he's unlikely to belong to the most hated group of people on earth right now!

I really feel for the Muslim community, its bad enough already without people picking on their choice of clothing.....why can't we just live and let live
 Trianon123
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 55
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/7/2012 5:25:45 AM
@Jo van



Well said, couldnt have said it better myself - its a throw back to the middle ages, they have probably got a version of the Maleus Malificarum stashed away to take their cues from...

I dont fear the women who wear these things but I do have a healthy fear of religion, any and all religion, and cult, as I know only too well how deep the teachings go into the psyche of its adherents - they arent free to think for themselves, they are blackmailed and brainwashed, their family honour held at stake for their good behaviour, thats exactly why I escaped religion....

The far right seem to be redoubling their efforts, almost as if they are running scared, playing the ostrich game with progress or not learning from old Canute...
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 56
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/7/2012 5:30:22 AM
I'd also be interested as to why your children are uncomfortable when many others (including my own) aren't?

Children follow their parents' lead and, as you admit to being "intimidated", I'd suggest you look at your own issues and try teaching your children that we are all different and that's just fine. Maybe then, you wouldn't have to worry about their discomfort when they come across people that are different in some way.
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 58
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/7/2012 12:23:51 PM
Charity...my post wasn't aimed at you, I didn't even read your post on this thread, it was actually aimed at the OP.

However..

t's women being denied the right to her own individual identity.

Isn't that what allowing them to wear whatever they want is about? There may be some that wear it because they're forced to, but I was referring to those that choose that lifestyle. By forcing them to remove the burkha, we'd be doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing, ie being denied the right to her own individual identity.

Do you actually agree that women should be covered head-to to-toe, unseen?

No. I do, however, agree that anyone should be allowed to do whatever it is they believe in, as long as they're not a murder or the like obviously.

UK should remain a place where people are given freedom, not allowed to be oppressed

So, again, by allowing them to wear the burkha, we are already allowing them their freedom. We would, in fact, be oppressing them if we forced them to remove it.

Female circumcision is a different matter altogether, because the person having the procedure is a baby and, therefore, unable to make a decision for themselves. If, however, an adult female wanted to be circumcised due to her beliefs, then yes.
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 59
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/7/2012 1:13:52 PM
tend to regard people wearing clothes that are culturally associated with hot desert lands and nothing to do with religion as worthy of contempt for dressing as they are told instead of how they would like

Just tell the kids that the woman in the burka is not allowed to think for themselves as a result of having sex with first cousins to keep the family nice and tight and hence they are not very bright :)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 63
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:12:43 AM
Religions eh...?
What will they think of next...?


Muslim Cleric's Warning: Cucumbers Too Sexy for Women
Published December 08, 2011 | FoxNews.com

An Islamic cleric living in Europe reportedly has warned Muslim women not to get too close to bananas, cucumbers or other produce -- to avoid having “sexual thoughts.”

The unnamed cleric, whose directive was featured in an article in el-Senousa, a religious publication, purportedly said that if women wanted to eat these foods, a third party -- preferably a male related to them, such as their father or husband -- should cut the items into small pieces before serving, the Egyptian website Bikya Masr reported.

Carrots and zucchini also were added to the alleged cleric's list of forbidden foods for women.

News of the statement quickly spread online, leaving many liberal Muslims embarrassed and angry, evoking a flurry of mockery in online forums.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/08/muslim-cleric-reportedly-bans-women-from-handling-cucumbers/?intcmp=obinsite

Dear Diary,
Today, my devoutly muslim girlfriend, has told me she wont be buying me peanuts, or spaghetti, anymore.

I don't know what's brought this on..

 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 64
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:34:41 AM
According to this Scientologists, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects.

Perhaps all Scientologists should be forced to wear burkas?
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 65
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/8/2012 10:42:55 AM

Hmm being banned, well I think it should but it would be hard to enforce the law


Erm .... I mean how are we gonna spot those wearing burkas? If we can manage fining people for littering and spitting and bad car parking but we cant spot a bleedin' burka?

True - we might have problems though if we need an identity parade! Didn't think of that one!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 70
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/10/2012 9:22:08 AM

What is so hard to understand?
Anything that completely hides a person's identity is not really compatible with the way this society operates...
Someone already posted about the problems of burkha-d women collecting children from a nursery, basic security issues, aside from health and safety...
I feel the same about hoodies in malls and shops.. The public and the shops should have the right to ask people to remove them...
No-one is asking muslim women to remove their headgear... It's the burkha specifically or the niquab; which completely cover the woman's body (whatever) and whole face...is the issue.
anyone who habitually completely hides their identity in public, for whatever reason will tend to be seen as an outsider, difficult to integrate because in this culture we are used to looking at people's faces when we communicate. It's a fairly universal trait, actually...

Don't get me wrong, I basically agree. And I believe that the delusions which cause them to WANT to cover up in such a way, ARE designed to "disempower", and perpetuate the patriarchal systems, which such religions have long championed, to the detriment of women.
BUT, I feel that rational discourse and persuasion to remove them voluntarily, is the way to go, rather than some statutory 'ban'.
It's a bit worrying that the government seem to whipping up this hysteria about women covering their faces, at the same time as they're saying that anyone in possession of a "V for Victory Mask", is intent on lawbreaking.

And what about people wearing pollution masks on bicycles, or wearing a scarf across your face on a cold day..?
Many people in Japan wear surgical masks all the time, when in public. Not for any reasons of morality, or 'modesty' but to avoid germs, and pollution.
Are you suggesting that the 'state' has the 'right' to demand we display our faces when in public..?

In these days of surveillance cameras, and 'big brother' like tactics, would it not be better, to persuade the women who choose to dress in such a way, to cease to adhere to this bronze-age gibberish, of their own free will..?
Otherwise we run the risk of becoming as dictatorial and oppressive, as the regimes where these practices are enforced.

Gentle education is the key, I feel, rather than 'objection', 'disapproval', or even the 'fear' talked about previously.
Give people the right information, and they will often make the right choices.
I always used that approach with my kids when they were younger, rather than confrontation, or attempting to be dictatorial.
In other words: " the burka..? Oh yeah, just ignore it, it's just a 'phase' they're going through. They'll 'grow out of it', by themselves."
Such religious practices will inevitably 'die a natural death'.
Because it's bollux.
IMO
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 74
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 10:02:23 AM
I'm tiring of the female forumites bashing on about this being oppression of Muslim women. This is not about whether women are oppressed, this is about an item of clothing worn to follow the rules of a religion/culture these people are part of and fully believe in.

Sikh men have to wear a turban.
Orthodox Jewish boys and men have to wear those daft hats and ringlets.
Jewish and Muslim boys have to be circumcised.

So are they oppressed too, or could it be that they go ahead with these "rules" because that's what they believe in?

Or do none of those things matter, because they're men and can't possibly be oppressed?
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 77
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Posted: 3/11/2012 10:35:06 AM

Do Muslim men have to wear a burka?

No.

Do Muslim women have to be circumcised?

I know which I'd rather have.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 78
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Posted: 3/11/2012 1:00:38 PM
Anything involving attaching a label repulses me. That includes gender, race, nationality and so much more.

Its all about choice, i would quite like to go naked all the time in an ideal world, but that isnt practical as i will most likely cause offence to others, get arrested and catch pneumonia. Idealism is all well and good until it gets in the way of common sense.

People should be free to look anyway they deem fit, not be dictated to. If they choose to conform then that is their choice, but there is no reason on earth why a woman would wear a burkha in the UK if she didnt want to. She has the CHOICE to walk away whenever she chooses. To say she cant because of FEAR is an excuse.

There is a choice.... its those that have no choices that get my sympathy but then again revolution is always an option.
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 79
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Posted: 3/11/2012 1:17:35 PM
In some cases
women are coerced or forced to wear the full faced veils by their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles etc. It isn't their wish!

The QUESTION is how do we deal with that in this country? How do we support those women?


VVVVVV Hostels for women socially forced to wear high heals? Now there is an idea?
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 80
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 1:40:23 PM

But on another note i sometimes feel that women are socially coerced into wearing high healed shoes. They hurt, even if you find a pair that doesn't it can lead to back problems in later life but show me a women on a night to a club that isn't wearing them. I feel not as attractive without them. We need to deal with sexism as a whole. I haven't got any easy answers.



I have seriously heard it all now!! Women wearing high heels due to peer/media pressure is not, nor is anywhere near, sexism....its women being weak and being led by the pack and not having the guts to keep their own personal identity.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 82
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/11/2012 3:28:07 PM
@Pandora:

I agree with your sentiments overall, but i also feel culture should be taken into account. For example the women in these cultures and especially relevent in ones covered by Sharia law would find that choosing to put career before family equally repulsive.

A patriarchal society, underpinning a theocratic leadership is always going to appear to be extreme to those that live outside of it, the bottom line is its what they know and they are comfortable in that space.
It is unfortunate we have to deal in generalisations on this matter as there will always be exceptions, but my personal opinion based on experience in the region over many years is that they are happy with things as they are and resist any type of cultural change.

I liked your comment about Patriarchal control hidden behind a religion and used as the words of god, Islam if not the only religion thats been used as a social tool to control the masses through fear, but thats a massive digression :)
The word of god like anything written by a person always, is, has been and will be the authors own opinion/interpretation. To think anymore than that is moronic.

If you can do anything to give these women a voice to air their true concerns would be a massive step in the right direction. And that goes for any group living under opression.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 85
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Posted: 3/11/2012 4:24:41 PM
India and Pakistan? Incorrect. Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, yemen, Somalia, Jordan, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, and many others.... its to do with one particular sect..... what is noticeable is that it has started to creep into Libya, Tunisia and Egypt post Arab spring.

An interesting social experiment would be to give western feminists a gun and tell them to go and 'sort' it. And see what reception they get from the newly liberated. I have yet to see any other solution that has a prayer of working.

When this happens i would advise buying shares in Agent Provocatuer, Anne Summers and any cosmetic firm you can find. ( dont forget the pharmaceuticals and all they animal lab subsideries business will be booming!)
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 86
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Posted: 3/12/2012 8:03:49 AM

Really? do you not see the difference? Really?

Absolutely! They are all "requirements" of following a particular culture/religion...the only difference is that the burkha is worn by women and the others are all things men are required to do.

Which was precisely my point
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 90
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Posted: 3/13/2012 8:12:08 AM
On a less than serious note, I am wondering how well a dating site for the burqa clad would do?
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 92
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Posted: 3/13/2012 2:44:25 PM
As theres so many single mothers living on benefits and the government is looking to cut the benefits bill by any means possible they might see sharia law as a cheap way to cut down the numbers of female benefit claimants lol

Drastic times and all that
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 95
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Posted: 3/14/2012 6:36:28 AM
Right girls how many of you have wondered what they say about men in kilts is true? ( i would never wear underwear with a kilt)

Is it wrong to wonder what is ( not as the case may be) being worn under a burkha?
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 99
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/21/2012 7:25:06 AM

Islam says you can 'strike' your wife if she gets out of hand.

Doesn't it also restrict that strike to using something like a toothbrush?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 100
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/31/2012 12:09:35 AM
if any of you can be arsed go to the russia today site. very interesting piece
on saudi arabia and how women flee to the labanon to escape having to wear
the burka.

but it got me thinking why the big fashion houses dont have the 'burka' collection.

you know hugo boss burka in black with the boss sign and an arrow pointing to the
husband

jean paul gaultier new ranged of black burkas on sale NOW

christian la croix however is despondant and suing his parents as no one wants his
christian burka

tv show loose women iranian style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvf7XFep5yE
 ZXTTTT
Joined: 5/10/2010
Msg: 101
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:15:48 AM
No religon tells any body to keep their face hidden.
It is a giant lack of respect as far as I am concerned. If you want to come to live in Britton and call yourself brittish, you should live as the british too, not try to change Briton in to what you have left.
If you don't like my opinion, tough.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 102
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Wearing the burka in the UK.
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:10:11 PM

we have no culture now.. just a mixture of everyone elses we've been diluted so much we dont evan know what it is to be brittish now its just a meaningless term "brittish"??


Whats been taken from you.. or me for that matter because I'm British? Nothing stops me from doing anything I want to do.
So what is British culture, apart from the pub and sunday roasts?
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