Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 51
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play withPage 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Aristotle ... you think Our health System in Canada is perfect? There is no perfect system , show me any country that has a perfect health system? Cuba, North Korea, Greece?

Pretty sure I never implied anything was perfect.




Its the age old debate , Universal Health care vs Private, each system has its advantages and disadvantage, I'm not arrogant enough to say ours is better than such and such a country.

The only debate I see is, should your health care be done with a bottom line in mind or should it be done with care in mind.

If you look at the USA as a model, you see the more expensive health care in the planet and it ranks 37th* with respect to measuring the performance.

Should that not a bit of a red flag that having your health care done by the lowest bidder may not be the smartest way to go.



*Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
Christopher J.L. Murray, M.D., D.Phil., and Julio Frenk, M.D., Ph.D., M.P.H.
N Engl J Med 2010; 362:98-99January 14, 2010
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 52
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 2:53:08 PM
I, and everybody that I know that pays for their own health insurance has seen it at least DOUBLE in cost since Mr. Howdy Doody


Frist off PK you are wrong about the doubling of costs...

Second, the insurance industry has been raising rates in excess of inflation ever since I started in the financial services industry 25 years ago...

Third, insurance companies have been whores for profit. PPACA has nothing to do with insurance companies whoring profit before they are curtailed to 15% in excess of claims paid.

Family health costs jump 5%
New survey finds workers and employers are paying more for health insurance this year than last, and substantially more than they did 10 years ago.
By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: September 15, 2009: 11:32 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Despite a drop in inflation, the annual cost of employer-sponsored family health insurance coverage has risen 5% this year to $13,375, according to a new survey released Tuesday.

Employers picked up the lion's share of that tab. Companies paid an average of $9,860, while their workers picked up the other $3,515, according to the 2009 survey of employers from the Kaiser Family Foundation and Health Research & Educational Trust. Kaiser is a nonprofit, nonpartisan health policy research foundation.

For individual coverage, annual premiums rose more modestly, up an average of 2.6% to $4,824. But those increases came as prices fell roughly 1% this year because of the recession.

Over the past decade, the annual cost of family coverage has risen 131% and the annual cost for single coverage is up 120%, according to Kaiser. In each of the past 10 years, insurance increases have outpaced inflation -- sometimes by as much as 11 percentage points.

"When health care costs continue to rise so much faster than overall inflation in a bad recession, workers and employers really feel the pain," said Kaiser president and CEO Drew Altman in a statement.

Even though companies pay far more of health insurance premiums than their employees, many economists note that increases to the employer portion of health costs reduce workers' wages over time. This year, workers' wages have risen 3.1%, according to the Kaiser survey.

In response to the economic downturn, 22% of large employers and 21% of small employers offering health insurance to workers said they reduced the cost of health benefits or increased how much their workers had to pay throughdeductibles and co-payments.

The same percentage of large employers and 15% of small companies said they increased their workers' share of the premiums.

And 42% of all firms said they are likely or somewhat likely to increase what workers pay in premiums next year, while more than 35% said they would increase deductibles or worker copayments and share of drug costs.

According to the survey, more than 20% of workers with employer-sponsored insurance plans must pay $1,000 in deductiblesfor individual coverage before their insurance policy kicks in. That's up from 10% in 2006.

The survey comes during one of the most pivotal weeks in the health reform debate, as Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., prepares to release a much-awaited reform bill worked on -- although not always supported -- by a bipartisan group of senators. Whether that bill can generate bipartisan support among the broader committee and others in the Senate is still an open question.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/15/news/economy/health_insurance_costs/index.htm


A smaller, more accountable govt., limited regulations, lower taxes, and adherence to the US Constitution


Don't you mean he teaparties adherence of their interpretation of the constitution.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 53
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 3:26:36 PM

Frist off, that is as far as I needed to read in order to understand that the writer either didn't read what I wrote


Geeze PK...if your getting ripped off by your insurance company don't take it out on me...my advise is to shop the coverage for better rates...your're getting screwed.


Seeing how you know so much about me, if you say that is what I meant, than it has to be so


Thanks PK for granting me license to correct your meanings where ever I see fit.
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 54
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 4:14:01 PM

The only debate I see is, should your health care be done with a bottom line in mind or should it be done with care in mind.

If you look at the USA as a model, you see the more expensive health care in the planet and it ranks 37th* with respect to measuring the performance.

Should that not a bit of a red flag that having your health care done by the lowest bidder may not be the smartest way to go.
You never cease to amaze me Aristotle, did you actually read the report or did you skim through it and pick the pieces you like.

Finances plays a big part, If you sit down with a millionaire or a multi- millionaire and ask them about health coverage in the States what do you think they will say? compared to a struggling family earning below the poverty line with no health insurance?

So I dont see where you going with this or your point?
 SaluteYourShorts
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 55
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:23:38 PM
you guys still dont get it do ya. come up with something legit for our tax dollars....thats all i wanted. could you imagine if lets say government was truly at its limit at a state level. and the citizens of the state came and said....well hes a list of 10 items we feel that are the most important. you can choose which youd like to benefit from your taxes. healthcare, fixing roads, school's. anything.....instead ya sit here n fight like a bunch of 3rd graders with a thesaurus. and to whoever said something about respecting me...i think i made it pretty clear how much i care about someone elses opinion of me. ask paul if your confused

you guys can vote all day....republican, democrat independent it doesnt matter. the president is not in charge. sorry theres way more to the picture than what you see. ill go back to not getting myself aggravated over this mess.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 56
view profile
History
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:48:34 PM
OK Shorts, I'd say if we had the money we spend it on our infrastructure. Roads, bridges, ports & levees, sewer, water electrical grid.... In short, the things this country needs to function as a unit. Or, as a states united. It's part of what links us as a country and one of the reasons together we're better than any one individual state.

This would benefit all Americans who depend on the "system" we have that moves goods, supplies water and power and eliminates waste. Plus, it would put Americans back to work fixing these systems.

Our infrastructure is already in place. It's not getting any younger and in some cases is in dire need of attention. We're going to need to fix it up eventually anyways. Make the commitment and fix or maintain our infrastructure. It's what made us great and I hate to see it crumbling the way it is. It was made for America by Americans. I think we are forgetting that sometimes.
 SaluteYourShorts
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 57
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 5:55:56 PM
i agree with you 100%. infastructure overhaul would do so much good on so many levels. i mean just think if we really dumped even a small fraction of our defense budget into roadwork....think how many jobs it would create. putting money in peoples pockets...sending them to the stores revitalizing the economy 1 drop in the bucket at a time. just something POSITIVE and BENEFICIAL to americans. does the average american really give 2 shits if bank of america goes under?

and the thing is we do have the money. we allocated 1.1 trillion dollars in bailouts to major corporations. why cant we allocate 1.1 trillion to cancer research, or education or space exploration. ask yourself....and really think about it. turn off the tv and turn on your mind
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 58
view profile
History
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 6:09:17 PM
Yup, I think it's money well spent. More of an investment than a liability IMHO.

Think where we'd be without it. How could we have ever been a world industrial leader without our infrastructure? I say, concentrate on our own house first before fixing everyone elses countries. Fix it, get it working,keep it working .This benefitted both the rich and poor of our nation .

I'm happy to be an America. I've worked construction all my life. It pains, and scares me when I see the shape some of our roads and bridges are in. Locally, and nationwide I've seen some scary s**t as far as crumbling roads and bridges. And, that's just what you can see. Who knows whats going on underneath these structures.
 SaluteYourShorts
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 59
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 6:23:31 PM
america's principals are blue collar. our roots are the poor, the scrappers...the fighters and the idealists. for quite some time now we've forgotten our roots. that we were once the embraced melting pot and land of the free. now rich business men sell our jobs to 3rd world nation's for profit margins. could you imagine if your families came to america and met the resistance from its people the way we resist it with today...building electric fences and walls. could you imagine if the pioneers that came here to escape religious opresion were treated the way our people treat muslims. lets face it osama bin laden became a poster boy for evil and he was responsible for 2k deaths. if we hated italians for mussolini, germans for hitler, russians for stalin, etc etc. the double standard is awful and you ignorant mother****ers are afraid of a guy in pajams with nothing more than a 50 year old ak which half the rounds misfire. we've lost sight of what we can be...and should be. all anyone cares about is there own little piece of the pie...and not making sure that everyone gets the same pie. we think someone wants to eat our piece...instead of helping them make their own. its disgusting and sad and i hate that thats the majority right now. scared into submission....fear for change and no hope for idealism anymore. all we think about is ourselves. i bring up a post about what you could do with 600billion to help america and all you ***holes do is bicker about your own political views. paul and the other guy with the 87 year long quote replies. and whoever else i stopped reading it was pathetic
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 60
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 7:14:53 PM
A little angry there Salute? look..... whether its 600 billion, 600 million or 600 trillion none of that matters if you guys accept the same mediocre system that is plaguing congress/Washington or Parliament/Ottawa or what ever country you live in expect to live in Mediocrity.

You want things to change you have to take the bull by the balls and say to hell with this, you want to be the instrument of change , embrace capitalism and stop depending on the government to be your knight and shining Armour, that is the difference between successful people and non successful people, successful people takes risks and says I'm not a slave to the government, corporation etc, the rest worry about benefits, job security, Flat screen TV's and reality shows and hopes the government can solve their problems.

I dont have a political affiliation because to be honest most of the politicians are preaching the same b.s telling the same tale.
 SaluteYourShorts
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 61
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 8:03:56 PM
"you want to be the instrument of change , embrace capitalism and stop depending on the government to be your knight and shining Armour"

did you read at all what i said? i dont want our government. what makes you think i depend on it. and how could i be an instrument of change and embrace capitalism. that wouldnt be changing to much
 MondoVman
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 62
view profile
History
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 8:59:44 PM
Someone please tell me what I'm tryin' to say? Come on now. I'm being all nice and gentlemanly as I can soes you'll answer me, you a--holes! 'k? *pops another cold one* ... ahhhh
 SaluteYourShorts
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 63
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/9/2012 10:00:45 PM
its funny how all the old people are content, cause well lets face it your dead soon anyway so **** it. lol whatever...gooooooo tea party woooo. vote romney!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 64
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 4:28:37 AM
BEFORE obamacare passed, I was paying $187.00 a month to Blue Cross for a major med policy, with a $3000.00/deductible. ONE MONTH after obamcare passed, my rate was $374.00/month, EXACTLY DOUBLE


Well, PK…a little research into the matter has found that California Anthem raised their rates 39% in 2010…an unheard of increase but not double…and then paid their state CEO $4.6 mil in 2010 along with paying the top 10 exec $14 mil at the same time….no other health insurers in California had such increases. PK, you should shop your coverage-you’re getting screwed.

The CEO of the nonprofit health insurance company Blue Shield of California, Bruce Bodaken, earned $4.6 million in 2010, according to documents made public by the California Department of Insurance Wednesday. Blue Shield paid its top ten executives more than $14 million combined last year. In January of this year, after Blue Shield announced its third major increase in less than a year, the nonprofit Consumer Watchdog sent a letter to Bodaken demanding that he disclose his annual salary. After public protests at Blue Shield headquarters and sharp criticism from Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones the company to withdrew plans for the third rate hike, but had not disclosed executive salaries until yesterday.
http://www.ilhealthagents.com/blog/blue-cross-blue-shield/blue-cross-blue-shield-of-california-ceo-earns-4-6-million-fights-legislation-to-limit-excessive-overhead/

And Anthem did not use PPACA to justify it’s rate increase:

Anthem, for its part, said higher medical costs as well as a smaller pool of members to absorb the risk made raising rates necessary.

"Unfortunately, in the weak economy many people who do not have health conditions are forgoing buying insurance," the company wrote in a statement Monday responding to Sebelius' letter. "This leaves fewer people, often with significantly greater medical needs, in the insured pool. We regret the impact this has on our members."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/08/BACL1BUD95.DTL
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 65
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 4:38:42 AM

I, and everybody that I know that pays for their own health insurance has seen it at least DOUBLE in cost since Mr. Howdy Doody decided to implement one more feature of his "redistribution of wealth" policy.........

Please show me proof of this "redistribution of wealth" policy that you are talking about.





When asked about it, they flat out told me that they are going to have HUGE increases when this new plan takes effect in the next few years. Four years ago, I was paying $187.00/month, now it is over $400.00/month.

So, that is called capitalism, if you do not like it you can always choose something else or maybe you are just not trying hard enough to get a better price.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 66
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 5:06:44 AM

Anthem, for its part, said higher medical costs as well as a smaller pool of members to absorb the risk made raising rates necessary.

"Unfortunately, in the weak economy many people who do not have health conditions are forgoing buying insurance," the company wrote in a statement Monday responding to Sebelius' letter. "This leaves fewer people, often with significantly greater medical needs, in the insured pool. We regret the impact this has on our members."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/08/BACL1BUD95.DTL


PK, based on Anthem's justification for massive rate increases you should be blaiming President Bush for your rate increase for leaving the economy in the mess it's in.
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 67
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 6:33:25 AM

Godfather,
I think you need a crash course in how externalities effect market equalibrium (global market), as you have neglected it in your analysis of the financial crisis. What you suggest would result Fuedalism. The common blue collar worker being owned (even more so) by corporations, which would put it on par with China's version of communism as Aristotle attempted to explain via the link to the other forum.
oooh very interesting Meje, So tell me in your own words what caused the financial crises? your answer will tell me what you understand about economics.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 68
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 10:26:00 AM

Lol! I wrote out a full page reply and then accidently lost it, sometimes pof kicks me out when I hit post. Ugh...I can't get anything to work right this week. I'll get back to this tonight, be patient.

If you go to post and get sent to your log in screen, just use your back button, go back copy and paste and then log back in.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 69
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 6:50:17 PM
So now you are acknowledging that they DID INDEED more than double my rates?


And you claim I have reading comprehension issues...read the revelant post...the rate increase was 39%.."massive" but not double.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 70
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 7:06:37 PM

We whole heartedly agree.......... Funny, how they DIDN'T decide that it was necessary to do that UNTIL obamacare passed.................. THIS increase was a result of REGULATIONS, as we both have said


Step 1: Raise prices.

Step 2: Blame regulations.

Step 3: Profit.



Obamacare will save your country billions in the long term, as people getting better care, get sick less, less sick people, less cost. Insurance companies are losing the ability to f*ck you over and before it is all gone they are going to soak you for what they can.

That said, I do not think you can blame your high cost of insurance on anyone but yourself. If you want the cheapest insurance then that is up to you to live a lifestyle that puts you in the lowest risk category. Now there are some people out there that think rates based on your state of health is unfair and discriminatory, but most of them are just dirty liberal types.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 71
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 7:27:32 PM
Here in Connecticut insurance rate increases must be approved by the insurance commissioner...so, an insurer must have a real legit reason for raising rates...and if the insurance company gets a massive salary increase after raising rates there'll be heII to pay...anyway, our commissioner has refused to let insurance companies have massive rate increases...and 39% is massive....In California, consumer uproar about homeowner and auto rate increases lead the state insurance department to limit rate increases subject to approval, but not health insurance rates...so, PK, you can blame your rate increase on the lack of regulation of a specific segment of the insurance industry...

When one see's the vast difference in regulation of the insurance industry from state to state...and the large cost of maintaining so many different insurance products that vary so much from state to state...one wonders why health insurance isn't a federally regulated industry.
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 72
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/10/2012 10:31:38 PM
Some interesting points Meje, my take on the financial crisis in 2008, I blame Congress/Washington,Certain corporations, the regulators, Wall Street, the lobbyist and my favorite whipping boy Phil Gramm........As chairman of the Senate Banking Committee from 1995 through 2000, Gramm was Washington's most prominent and outspoken champion of financial deregulation. He played a leading role in writing and pushing through Congress the 1999 repeal of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial banks from Wall Street.

He also inserted a key provision into the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted over-the-counter derivatives like credit-default swaps from regulation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Credit-default swaps took down AIG, which has cost the U.S. over $150 billion and counting so far.

Subprime crisis, thanks to homeowners as well as mortgage lenders, borrowers and consumers as well as bankers; political leaders of both parties as well as corporations' chief executives,not just a lamentably dozy Securities and Exchange Commission but reckless government-supported mortgage agencies (Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae); Federal Reserve Bank; and the commercial rating agencies. The American public, by default, was complicit. For at least a generation, U.S. consumers overspent and under saved, while simultaneously accumulating large personal debts. They purchased homes they couldn't pay for with mortgages they couldn't afford.



China for example has virtually unlimited access to natural resources and no environmental regulations, thus no externality (social cost) placed upon the extraction, processing and manufacturing of said resource. They have virtually no regulation regarding the health and welfare of their workers (what we like to call human rights), as such externalities are also low. Low externalities/regulation, low taxes, and therefore a low cost of production obviously gives companies operating within those boundaries the capability to drive the market.
while Im not going to be champion for the Chinese Government or Bejing , you need to realize Meje , China is 150 years behind the curve. New York had child labor and swill milk scandal back in 1858; China is simply going through the same period of transition into a market economy. It took the USA until 1938 to officially outlaw child labor, don’t expect China to do any better.


Lets look at Africa, she( Im calling the country a she) has been stuck in a rut, Corrupt politicians that are more interested in tribal living and anti-West dogma. Their markets are closed for business and that is why the people in those countries have the lowest standards of living on the planet. And just consider the fact that Africa is the most resource rich continent on the planet and it's also dirt poor.

Lets not forget the poverty pimps, Those who intercept the money intended for the poor ... The poor are a commodity to these people, who include not only local politicians, community activists and small-time hustlers, but also people with impressive titles and academic credentials, who likewise milk the larger society, in the name of the poor.
At the top of the food chain, as it were, are Ivy League professors who rake in big-time research grants to support themselves and their cronies while they are studying, romanticizing or otherwise exploiting the poor, yet they want to blame capitalism? yeah okay.

But back to the topic, At the top of the Subprime Mortgage crises, FIRREA(The Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act of 1989 )gave both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae additional responsibility to support mortgages for low- and moderate-income families.

Also Consider these examples, The Fed injected massive amounts of money and credit into our financial system from 2001 to 2004 that led to skyrocketing housing prices and fostered irresponsible borrowing and lending by market participants. The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977was used to intimidate banks and other mortgage lenders into making loans--such as subprime loans--in low- and moderate-income neighborhoods. Making loans to people who cannot afford them is a policy that is destined to lead to a financial catastrophe.

As I said before , most dont understand the true meaning of capitalism, Heck the American President and Congress and my neighbors dog doesn't understand capitalism, but they are sure quick to blame her.

Sorry for the long post.
 Justcheckingfor1
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 73
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/12/2012 5:46:21 AM
"Do you forget saying this:
...Get over it, and stop acting like an elitist, spoiled brat. It makes you look bitter, wimpy, pathetic and sad...
Seril0usly, pot meet kettle."

^^^Good call Arist, I was waiting for that. No worries. If I had my way, the USA would pull out of everywhere and tell everyone you are all on your own. And also, we would use the oil that we produce instead of selling it to other places, and buying it from other places. Plus we would treat our Canadian neighbors a lot better. The Federal government would then do what it is supposed to do. Which would be to have a strong National defense, road and bridge construction and protect and secure our borders. Everything else would left up to the state level government.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 74
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/12/2012 9:00:48 AM

If I had my way, the USA would pull out of everywhere and tell everyone you are all on your own. And also, we would use the oil that we produce instead of selling it to other places, and buying it from other places. Plus we would treat our Canadian neighbors a lot better.

That would be a smart thing to do, seeing as we sell you things like power and water which many of your citizens could not live without.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 75
my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with
Posted: 3/12/2012 10:51:45 AM

I agreed that is what happened, but disagreed in that the doubling of the rates was tennent of capitalism. When a company, or an individual sees a doubling of rates coming at them, they take defensive measures, or they go out of business or go BK.

To survive in a capitalist market you must be profitable, so regardless of why, having to raise the rates to continue to be profitable is a product of capitalism.

It does not matter why your costs are going up, you raise rate regardless, because to have to get enough money to stock pile billions and take care of those share holders you must screw over your customer. (which is what the health providers are doing, do you even know the kind of money these people are making?)


So in your world capitalism is great, but when it screws you over, it is someone else's fault.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > my proposal to america, feel free to add. i left 600 bil to play with