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 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 26
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The Madonna/Whore SyndromePage 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Usually the Madonna/Whore complex will manifest itself it the "type" of sex a man will have with his S/O.
He will have sex with the woman he loves, but he will consider it "love making" and it will be pretty much "vanilla" sex. He will not want her to perform oral sex on him, because he somehow considers it a degrading act, or he does not her to be aggressive sexually. No "rough" sex. This usually gets worse when she becomes the mother to his children.
He will then, in turn, have a lover on the side that he gets his "kinky" sex from, and will do all the things he won't do with his wife.

and yes, some men still have this mentality even in this day and age.

Sometimes just discussing this as a couple can resolve it......but normally couples counseling is required, where not only the wife, but a professional lets the man know it is okay to have hot monkey sex with the woman you love. It is not degrading her, as long as she is a willing participant. It isn't a quick, easy fix, because most these men have been taught this mentality from a young age and have always felt that way.

btw......Freud was a nimrod that came up with his theories back in the Victorian Age, where women were still treated as dimwitted, frail, possessions.
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 27
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/7/2012 8:12:48 PM
Micki I had to quote you


it is okay to have hot monkey sex with the woman you love .

It is not degrading her, as long as she is a willing participant.


and aren't there many of us on this site looking to find that willing participant! Another good bumper stick slogan from you.
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 28
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 3:48:44 AM

gee, so sex and love are identical now? To have sex is to love and to love is to have sex?wow, how did I miss that one?


Never said that.But in order to have a healthy realtionship that lasts in a committeed and monogamous way,one has to be able to integrate the two.
Alot of people seem to be able to separate the two with no problem though.

I assume you are one of them?

And BTW...it's not just married men who have Madonna/Whore Complexes,single men can too.They are the guys who consider sexual women non-relationship material,but are more than happy to have sex with them as long as they don't have to love,respect or commit to them.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 29
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 3:53:18 AM
FOr me sex with someone I am in love with, cannot be beaten. Sure we can have casual sex and let ourselves go because we dont care what they think of us and there is not real pressure and really enjoy it but ultimately I feel empty. Both together is the ultimate. Madonna/Whore complex cannot be resolved I dont think. It is too deep rooted. Pardon the pun.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 30
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 4:18:55 AM
It's my opinion, that this sort of thing gets a bit blown out of proportion, as a result of a heavy-sounding "scientific" label being attached to it. The "Madonna/Whore Complex" sounds like a vast stone edifice, an armed compound of powerful defects, that requires near super efforts to deal with.

I think it's both simpler and more complex than that, at the same time.

First of all, the history of putting labels on human psychology, and how such labeling affects how people think about sex and relating is important to understanding why this sort of subject elicits the sort of testy talk we are seeing right here in this thread. As I said, a fancy-sounding label can cause as much trouble as it tries to address.

It's been my own observation, that there is a very big mind aspect to all human interactions, especially sex. What turns a person on depends at least as much upon what they think about what they see, as what they do see.

I think that the reason that you will see as you have, OP, that many people do believe that sex with strangers is better or hotter than with someone they know well, isn't due to any fancy "complex." In reality, it's due more to a collection of small misunderstandings as people are growing up, that make them as a result, more restrained and nervous with people that they worry about driving away, than with people that they aren't worried about losing.

There are culturally-driven things, such as the infamous prudish official attitudes about sex in the West. Since being openly sexual is so frowned upon, even now, children grow up with the idea that "sex is bad" in all sorts of little ways, and have to deal with that getting in the way of relating to a potential mate. That alone causes some of the problem.

On the next subtle level, once one is in a relationship, the fear that revealing or worse, discovering that you have what you think is a unique, or officially disapproved sexual taste, will cause one to offend and thereby lose one's mate. So people often hide parts of themselves from each other, and either start chasing strangers on the side (if they have entitlement/ego issues as well), or they ironically cause their relationship to be less involved and close than it might have been, by the hiding of their interests.

The solution to the M/W issue requires primarily, that the individual face their fear of really looking at themselves and their own attitudes thoroughly and honestly. A guy who is afraid to admit that he might be "kinky," (which is often less kinky that he actually is), wont be able to escape the urge to enjoy sex freely with his nominal partner. Therefore, communication with yourself is the first step for any guy who has that problem.

And it helps, I think, to NOT decide to apply some huge edifice of a label to oneself before or during the exploration of what you are about. Labels can help, but they often have a "cling-on" effect as well, causing one to drag along and think they have to deal with all sorts of side issues that they actually don't even have as a part of their situation.
 CarKam1
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 31
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 6:33:38 AM
On second thought...not going there...
 PutYouOnBlast
Joined: 1/18/2012
Msg: 32
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 6:51:02 AM

The solution to the M/W issue requires primarily, that the individual face their fear of really looking at themselves and their own attitudes thoroughly and honestly. A guy who is afraid to admit that he might be "kinky," (which is often less kinky that he actually is), wont be able to escape the urge to enjoy sex freely with his nominal partner. Therefore, communication with yourself is the first step for any guy who has that problem.

You know, there are men who message women and start asking this question right out of the gate 'Are you into.....?' They are just out of relationships, post things to their profiles that suggest that they are serious about relationships, and then when you get digits they start letting it out.

Don't know if the above quote is including people that do what I responded, but it came to mind when I read it. These people are fresh out of relationships that weren't fulfilling sexually and then they end up looking for no-strings-attached-kinky-sex, with the main reason being that they don't want to be tied down at the moment.

My feeling is if men were to get their women into whatever in bed, the least thing they can do is inspire them to feel so. This is almost like working out without a warm up first. Your body will not respond well if you don't.
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 33
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:00:11 AM

I wonder if BPD or NPD males possess this complex more often than the general male population at-large?


I think they are mainly who possess this complex,especially after reading this.

http://gettinbetter.com/casanova.html
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 34
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:40:45 AM
stray cat, didn't say it was about me, ok? It's a generally well-recognized syndrome.

I will say that it has happened to me with SOME women in the past.

I did experience the opposite, too. Knew a woman I had sex with daily, but once I found out what a rotten person she was I lost that attraction and parted ways ...

I'm going to leave this discussion, like every thread here they go down to the lowest common denominator and get kind of personal and yucky.

Thanks for you comment.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 35
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:50:53 AM
Just a note, but are people sex-obsessed these days or just here on POF?

Some of these discussions.......vanilla, kinky sex, etc.... my parents, my grandparents, relatives all had loving, lifelong marriages and I doubt very much that anything kinky was on the menu or even a consideration.

I'm not a prude, but if it takes kinky sex....slapping, fisting, whips, chains, bondage, hair-pulling, anal, watersports, poly, threesomes, spanking, foot fetishes, etc....pardon me but if that is the basis for relationships these days it seems more about HATE than love to me, IMO.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 36
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 11:43:12 AM
I could do without the Madonna part all together.....
at my age, with my son grown up, and off to school, and life,I want a woman who is exiting and fun
or none at all
never really needed a mom type anyway....
 prometheus76
Joined: 1/22/2012
Msg: 37
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 2:22:18 PM
Genetically speaking, women's chances to orgasm increase proportional to how high their bodies perceive their mate's genetic traits to be. Sort of a reward for choosing the more viable candidate.

On topic: Women do have this "syndrome". Have ever heard the phrase "treat the whore like a queen and the queen like a whore"?
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 38
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 3:45:33 PM
What's so wrong about wanting and being BOTH?

I can be goofy, bad, sexy, loud, quiet and very polite and reserved...I want a woman who can do the same.
It's all in the circumstance!

You can let go in some situations yet others you are reserved....some people don't seem to be able to know the difference.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 39
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 5:48:21 PM
I'm sorry to misinterpret your query Balsamica.
but it was kindof an imprecise question.

Since it doesn't apply to you,
I'll say I know a few guys who it does apply to.
And they are very unhappy.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 40
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/8/2012 7:43:10 PM
domo 31,

Not attached? Think about it (anatomy)

I nibble on my woman's neck and whisper in her ear over and over how much I love her. How much I want her forever. This is when she comes like a volcano. She needs to feel that emotional closeness to orgasm.

Madonna/Whore? My woman is my private whore. It's just one of the million things I love about her. She encourages my fantasies. This complete intimacy is what fuels our relationship..
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 41
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 3:59:47 AM
What's so wrong about wanting and being BOTH?


Nothing at all!That's the goal and a man who wants both is cool in my book.
Wouldn't have it any other way.



My woman is my private whore. It's just one of the million things I love about her. She encourages my fantasies. This complete intimacy is what fuels our relationship.


It's a shame that being comfortably sexual is even defined as being a "whore". or comfortably nurturing and loving a "madonna" in anyone's mind.
I do get what you are saying though and it's great she's comfortable enoug in herself to express both sides without fear of judgement or being considered lesser.

It comes down to having had a dysfunctional relationship or situation in one's FOO(Family of Origin) and it's not even really the fault of the man.He too is a victim of circumstance and I really feel more pity than angst for these types.

They have hard lives and miss out on so much joy.
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 42
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 6:16:20 AM
You're welcome.

I figure since I didn't have clue one about this disorder before I ran into a man with it,I'd learn as much as I could to try and protect myself from it in the future!

Pathological people seem to have a knack of getting what they want at your expense and it's hard to see them coming but you never forget them when you finally stop falling for thier pity ploys and escape thier grips!

Lived and learned the hard way that's for sure!
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 43
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 7:56:40 AM

Madonna/Whore? My woman is my private whore.


If you feel the need to consider your woman's behavior as whorish.......then you have the M/W syndrome more than you realize.......
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 44
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 8:50:16 AM
Ms Micki
Actually no. You have some regressed personality that sees sex as as some compartamentalized part of life...do you see.sex as having it's 'proper' place? Heaven forbid tyour children see a breast on television or they will be traumatized for life.

My partner and I are completely open with each other and this lets us get inside eachother's minds. she enjoys pleasing me as I enjoy pleasing her. In contrast, so many couples end up having mediocre sex lives after one declares 'I don't like it'...'I don't want to'...instead of getting turned on by what they can do for their partner. My woman is my personal whore. She get off on driving me crazy. Controlling 'it'. She loves it. There is nothing 'Negative' about the Madonna/whore thing. It's whatever turns one crank. Anyone who views healthy fantasies as a 'negative' are lousy partners.
 AngelofHonesty
Joined: 1/4/2012
Msg: 45
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 9:44:23 AM
Sorry I can't agree...For me when I geniunely care for someone, the SEX is even more pleasurable, because yall already know how to turn each other out by touching just the right spots, whereas people whom have just met strangers if you will, don't have a freaking clue!!! To me Sex is better when time is invested in a person and that's just not something you can get from a stranger.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 46
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 10:03:14 AM
Bwah-ha-ha!!!
I realize you are fairly new to these forums.......but I can guarantee you I'm about as far from that description as one can get! I'm the one that gets accused of being emotionless, unable to be in a romantic relationship (even tho I'm now in one), that I think "like a man" and every other demeaning discription they can come up with because I speak of my experiences of having a FWB for many years. For you to say

You have some regressed personality that sees sex as as some compartamentalized part of life...
will definately have the regulars here chuckling!!

I stand by my comment....calling a woman a "whore" just because she enjoys all the aspects of her sexuality speaks volumes of your mindset. You can consider it a "positive" label all you want......but the fact you need to label her with what society considers a derogatory position shows that somewhere in your subconscious you have a bit of your own "compartmentalizing" going on.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 47
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 11:11:25 AM

Ms Micki
Actually no. You have some regressed personality that sees sex as as some compartamentalized part of life...do you see.sex as having it's 'proper' place? Heaven forbid tyour children see a breast on television or they will be traumatized for life.

****SNORT**** Seriously?

Bwah-ha-ha!!!
I realize you are fairly new to these forums.......but I can guarantee you I'm about as far from that description as one can get!

And I'll notarize this statement for ya Ms. Micki. Clearly someone hasn't gotten their ducks in a row prior to "compartmentalizing" you.

I stand by my comment....calling a woman a "whore" just because she enjoys all the aspects of her sexuality speaks volumes of your mindset. You can consider it a "positive" label all you want......but the fact you need to label her with what society considers a derogatory position shows that somewhere in your subconscious you have a bit of your own "compartmentalizing" going on.

+ 1 for me.

~OT~ I have to agree with the earlier comment that this whole Madonna/Whore thing is so out-dated, over-discussed, never agreed upon and really quite simplistic in thought now that sex isn't nearly as taboo as it once was. Personally? I'm all for being a lady in public, a cook in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom. As for the men in my life? Yep, I love those naughty bad boys ~ but I've learned to find those types inside truly good men. It is possible to be myriads of things. I see no need to label or consider myself or someone else some "pod" version of a whole human being. Therefore? Why the need to label at all? Makes no sense to me personally. JMO
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 48
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 1:51:04 PM
^^^^ I'm good with lady in public...slut in the bedroom! I don't care if she cooks and I prefer sluts to whores!
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 49
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 2:37:40 PM
It is the once a woman is a mother the guy no longer wants to have sex with her.
It is unresolved issues of sexuality around his own mother. I think it is complex and as men typically do not want to be counselled professionally it is an ongoing issue.

I would hope that orgasming with strangers rather than a loved one is not the norm. It may be that there is less pressure to impress and can be more inhibited.

Some people may be in situations where they dont get love and sex together but for me there is nothing like the combination and if you experience that, you never want to settle for anything less. Okay casual and one nighters happen but ultimately for me they are empty.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 50
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/9/2012 2:40:16 PM
This is more a man's thing and you are wired to spread the sperm and so new partners are a real turn on. Familiarity and the "same old cow" gets boring.
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