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 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 76
The Madonna/Whore SyndromePage 4 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
It's not at all about boredom with the familiar. It's not exactly even about love versus sex and where they meet although in part. It's born of a repressed attitude toward sex often in upbringing where either consciously or subconsciously the man views sex as "dirty". When in love with a woman where he respects his partner, he feels disrespectful to the one he loves. A random/casual/anonymouse encounter or even in a new relationship where those emotions/ties aren't yet formed strongly then he's more comfortable being "dirty" (as he views it on some level) to his partner.

I don't recall exactly where I read that but it's such a basic syndrome I could have read it on the back of a box of Wheaties.

You probably did.
It's pretty basic,this syndrome,and probably more common in men born in the 40s &50s.Because,at that time in the history of sex, the only way that some parents could see to prevent their teenager from becoming a teenage parent was to beat that "nice girls don't drum" over and over.
Someone else mentioned that it might have to do with a man having an unhealthy/dysfunctional relationship with his mother...one part of my mind says "no, that's too Freudian" and another says " there could be something to that theory."

I guess I have a serious case of madonna/whore syndrome. :-)

My ideal is to have a proper lady at home who is affectionate and loving, but only occasional sex, and then have someone else on the side who is very, very nasty.


Yup- that's the classic model. Any insights as to WHY you feel this way? My personal take is-why juggle multiple sociosexual partners?

Trust me,at some point any sociosexual partner (outside of paid services or high-risk ongoing anonymous sex with a different partner every time)-regardless of the designated structure of the involvement, is going to have a differing viewpoint about something,or a "cross-purposes" scenario will arise and there will be a confrontational episode. Why in the HELL would anybody in their right mind set themselves up for confrontational episodes with more than one sociosexual partner? Heck, find ONE that you can stand to be in a committed framework with. Yes, this may not be a thing of rapid resolution/instant gratification. It's a project, finding one person to be with,but I don't think that having more than one partner because of things that are messed up in YOUR head, is any kind of reliable solution, either.


I don't like the split especially, but given up on finding normalcy as it was defined when I was growing up. There is no normalcy anymore, so why not just do what you want?

But haven't we already pointed out that by your own admission, you have a classic case of M/W Syndrome? So you may have grown up with a distorted sense of normalcy.

I just don't see why anyone feels the need to label a woman as a "whore" to describe a woman that is overtly sexual with her man.


I can't help but wonder, does this woman take credit cards or does he leave the money on the dresser? The actual definition of "whore" is someone who exchanges sex for money or other material considerations. Some very deeply damaged people often try to characterize marriage as permitting a woman to be a legal prostitute.
Is it any wonder that more and more women have opted for higher education and paid employment-if marriage is characterized as "legal prostitution"?

'Slut' and 'Whore' should just be eradicated from the English language.

Indeed-they are simply tools used to control by shame.


Hmmm.......didn't realize I was in a fluster......I thought I was in a discussion!!

yes-one that is dancing on the edge of becoming a CLUSTER...

and pee in my toilet.
Well, I'm glad to hear you got thru toilet training unscathed.

Other than that, your analogy is apples to oranges.

Life is so much easier when you can have different people for different purposes. When its all in one and all-consuming and all-purpose, who can sustain that? Who would want to?

Well, according to your own statement, your parents, grandparents and other people who were influential to your formative years, managed to do exactly that...or are you going to tell us that they all had lovers on the side, or made out-of-town trips to get a little strange stuff? I'm not trying to disrespect your family here,I'm trying to find out why you seem to think it's necessary to have different people for different purposes,as that relates to companionship, and sex? It doesn't sound as if you were raised that way.

That might work for couples with kids but if the kids are gone and grown, why bother?

Well, then just find someone who wants a committed long-term dating arrangement without cohabitation. Then "territorial" won't be an issue.

What are the realities? That people are forgetting how to have actual relationships that have meaning beyond sex? Oh ok.

apparently that is his relaity- or he WANTS that to be his reality and can't find 2 or 3 women willing to go along with it.

Sex is a big game-changer in a relationship and a wild card........for anything long-term and to have any stability, I don't like it in the equation. It's just sex.

Classic M/W syndrome. I wonder, is it OK for your companionship woman to have a lover or 2 on the side? Is it OK if your sexercise women have spouses or significant others?

probably ideal for her to not be very sexual or have a very low level of need, etc..........

Oh no no no...fair is fair. She gets to have her sex guy(s) on the side.
This "not very sexual" thing makes me wonder about a helluva lot of stuff,I gotta tell you. Lets' just say I'm beginning to get the picture here-and its' sad that you are looking for "workarounds" rather than dealing with the problem directly.
Cindy O
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 77
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/12/2012 8:16:24 PM
I think you nailed it Cindy.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 78
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/12/2012 10:17:30 PM
Madonna as in the good mother is what that means versus the bad girl.
Not Madonna the pop star. It is well known psychological condition. Elvis had it.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 79
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/12/2012 10:21:28 PM
balsamica

I think if you enjoy sex with a woman you do not even like it is quite pathological and just animalistic. I agree there can be many combinations in our lives but that one is just disturbing. I know that men vent their anger and hatred through sex as that is what rape is. But a woman having sex with a man willingly that she knows does not even like her, very damaged person.
 Jazzplenty2012
Joined: 1/20/2012
Msg: 80
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/12/2012 11:41:40 PM
From just going on your original post not considering the other comments you wrote; I get part of what u are saying!!! A man, just like women can't get off with their spouses, but I think "THAT" has more to do with the fact that once you are married, especially if married for a long time sex is not as exciting! course if you have sex with a new person it's exciting and way better than with your spouse... WHY because its NEW!!!! That's the only reason, not because ur partner sucks at it or that u suck at it; it just becomes exciting again cuz you tried it with a new person;) the other Moddona/whore complex.. That's a whole other topic!!!
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 81
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 1:01:23 AM
jazzplenty, that is not what I am saying, newness has nothing to do with it.

It is rare for me to like someone, mostly I just feel neutral and just because I don't like someone it doesn't mean I dislike them, either.

I find it almost laughable to think that if and when I came to like someone that I'd say, "gee, I like you, can we have sex now?". One of my best friends of 25 years is a woman and we like each other very much, lots of emotional intimacy and friendship, and we decided never to be sexual and spoil it, and be friends for life.........all without sex. We enjoy eachother's company so much we don't feel any need for it, anyway.

Sexual feelings for me come from sensing sexual tension and magnetism between me and someone. I can feel it from ten feet away. There is no wish to be lifelong friends, there is just now and when that's happened sometimes I've been with a woman within an hour of meeting her.

It seems to me that the formula for liking the loving, then sex is just a fiction, someone's ideal. Maybe some people need to feel a sense of love before they allow themselves to feel sexual, but........to me, the two are very different energies and sets of responses. I dont need to love every woman i like or jump on a woman's bones if I loved her.

For me, love is from my heart and for someone who touches my heart, not my groin. I dont feel compelled to add sex to that mix, especially if the chemistry isn't there, because it can be very satisfying to be with someone you love just by their presence.

Someone else you might feel a terrific sexual energy with that is very mutual, it is not satisfying to be with them non-sexually by their presence alone because you feel an urgent need to be sexual with them and nothing else will do but that.

I don't see how that is so dysfunctional or unrealistic.
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 82
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 4:39:08 AM

So for me, it makes sense if I love a woman for it not to be sexual and be able to have a lifelong commitment and share a home as partners while I get sex elsewhere..........it works better for me to have a companion that way........and probably ideal for her to not be very sexual or have a very low level of need.


Alrighty then you keep those types of women separtate all you want.


Jeez, hearton64, don't burst a blood vessel there, hon.


Don't worry,I'm fine.Just offering my perspective is all.


anyway, you want to tie love and sex in a knot and keep it knotted, but........so what? Who cares except for you?


That's and ironic use of words considering men with M/W complex are devoid of empathy in most cases.

But....many thanks for allowing me to respect myself and my partner within a loving and committed sexual and emotional relationship.

Obviously,there is something seriously "off" about me.
 HeartOn64
Joined: 2/9/2012
Msg: 83
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 4:47:05 AM

Indeed-they are simply tools used to control by shame.


Exactly.



Oh no no no...fair is fair. She gets to have her sex guy(s) on the side.



Ohhh no no no! Fair is NOT fair for the "Madonna" in the minds of these men!
The men can f*ck anyone woman on the side they want to,but the women.....no! They MUST stay in the model implanted in the man's mind as "respectable" and sexless companions! Afterall.....he doesn't eat where he sh*ts.


Lets' just say I'm beginning to get the picture here-and its' sad that you are looking for "workarounds" rather than dealing with the problem directly.


Glad I'm not the only one here who see's this clearly.
 bilby886
Joined: 7/19/2007
Msg: 84
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 4:51:02 AM
Has any anyone read the book "I'm ok, You're ok" ?

child /adult /parent system?

Is this type of pop psychology useful?

Maybe great psychological tools to rationalize life and socio-emotional interference?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 85
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:51:44 AM
hearton64, so you're right and normal and natural and true, etc. and anyone who disagrees with your opinions of how it should be for everyone (which happens to be just like you!) lack empathy, are dysfunctional, sick, nuts, whatevah...........

Got it all wrapped up there with you and your partner within the context of a loving and committed sexual and emotional relationship, all neatly tied up in a bundle, eh?

Gee, me wish me was norml just like yoo is.........maybee sum day i kan bee just like yoo.

I can see how this wonderful "love" you have all bundled up has made you such a kind, understanding, non-judgmental, and loving person......yes, indeed, the love just flows...

 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 86
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History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 8:39:32 AM
Personally, I think OP has Mommy issues too!!
Wants his woman to Mommy him at home........and since you don't have sex with your Mom.......he needs another woman to have sex with.
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 87
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 9:33:59 AM
Has any anyone read the book "I'm ok, You're ok"


Yes people do compartmentalize some people in thier lives in terms of how they interact with them. The most obvious is the parent child interaction but most healthy people outgrow that to some extent as the child matures.

No doubt there are some relationships where one of the partners is a bit of a parent figure. It is not uncommon for men and women to marry someone who reminds them ( or thier friends ) of thier opposite sex parent.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 88
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 9:54:59 AM

and we decided never to be sexual and spoil it,

so sex "spoils" things?
This is sounding more&more like M/W syndrome-as I understand the nature of that condition.


Ohhh no no no! Fair is NOT fair for the "Madonna" in the minds of these men!
The men can f*ck anyone woman on the side they want to,but the women.....no! They MUST stay in the model implanted in the man's mind as "respectable" and sexless companions! Afterall.....he doesn't eat where he sh*ts.


Oh, don't worry-I GET what these men want. A Mommy to take care of them and some of those "not nice" girls to handle those dirty sexual urges that won't go away.But I'm not sure that any woman that isn't as messed up as the M/W Syndrome sufferer, is going to go along with that.


Got it all wrapped up there with you and your partner within the context of a loving and committed sexual and emotional relationship, all neatly tied up in a bundle, eh?

I for one am deeply sorry that you've never experienced this, OP.


can see how this wonderful "love" you have all bundled up has made you such a kind, understanding, non-judgmental, and loving person......yes, indeed, the love just flows...

Well, I don't see where expecting to have 2 or more women willing to deal with your flawed concept of sociosexual relationships has done YOUR character and persona any big favors,either.

Message# 104-yep, classic case of M/W syndrome.

From wikipedia

Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."

Sound familiar?


people do compartmentalize some of the people in thier lives in terms of how they interact with them at various stages in thier lives.

The ability to do that, where appropriate and beneficial, is a great gift.
When one cannot control the compartmentalization and it interferes with healthy human interactions-particularly in pair-bonding relationships,not so much.
Cindy O
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 89
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:19:11 AM
ladyc, well, my experience with my friend and our decision not to spoil a friendship with sex and risk it seemed fine for us, sorry you have a problem with it but if you want to judge me, then let me take a good, close look at your profile and have the right to judge you, too, ok?

I've liked, loved, and been sexual with one woman in the past, it's not a problem or an issue. It's not my ideal, either. Too much vested into one person and the idea of "lady in public, whore in private" frankly is a little schizoid to me. I never desired that kind of schism in one person and I am who I am in public or in the bedroom, just don't do certain things in public.

I am going to take a wild guess here and say that women are intimidated by men who might love them, but not desire them sexually, and might desire them sexually, but not love them, either way.

All I have ever said is that it is possible to love someone without sexual desire and still want to be with them and it is possible to sexually desire and enjoy relations with someone you don't love. Again, love is love, sex is sex, to me they are different and it is possible, sometimes even works out that one might love one person one way and be sexual with someone else that way.

I dont see what the big deal is about that. Honestly.
 Sabetha
Joined: 2/28/2012
Msg: 90
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:25:05 AM
I'M A FREAK ON THE STREET AND A FREAK IN THE BEDROOM...

I'M ONLY LADYLIKE WHEN I'M BEING SHY

BECAUSE SHYNESS/WEAKNES = FEMININE.

I think you should divorce your wife so she can go get some good sex off of someone else without feeling like Madonna. Poor girl has probably been faking it for years.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 91
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 10:36:18 AM
Elgalawaat in msg 97:


My definition of a whore is a woman who loves sex and this definition could apply to Men too. It is not even half bad if you love sex. In that regard you can count me as Whore too.


I have been referred to as a “man whore”. It is a label I wear with pride!
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 92
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The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 11:20:10 AM

well, my experience with my friend and our decision not to spoil a friendship with sex and risk it seemed fine for us


Why wouldn't you be allowed to choose your "diffrent strokes for diffrent folks"?

I think your decision is more in the norm than is a FWB situation. There may be a lot of people that can compartmentalize and find an equally capable partner to make the FWB thing work, but even in this day and age that does not describe the majority.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 93
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 11:30:39 AM

quote]ladyc, well, my experience with my friend and our decision not to spoil a friendship with sex and risk it seemed fine for us

I wasn't questioning the specific situation-and I certainly have no "problem" with it. I was simply commenting on your seeming suggestion that sex "spoils" a male/female human connection. I was not so much "judging" you, as commenting on your choice of words. You seem awfully defensive about this. And I'm not the least intimidated by your intent to have a "good close look" at my profile, and then judge me-even though I didn't judge you.

After all,you were the one that started the thread-did you REALLY expect that everyone would give you wholehearted agreement-especially when you speak of married people having sex with strangers. I will certainly agree that sometimes it seems like love and sex go in different directions,but when that happens I make my own decisions about how to handle it,and thus far, I've never had any temptations whatsoever to have a sex partner on the side and a sexless relationship with the one I supposedly "loved".

My relationship goal is to be with someone that I both love and want to be sexual with. I know that this is possible and it didn't end because of divorce. Since I know what a strong and healthy LTR/marriage looks like, I'm not about to settle for something less. Which there is plenty of on offer, but I'm not interested. I want a man who is a friend, a lover, and we enhance each others' lives. All in one package.

Too much vested into one person and the idea of "lady in public, whore in private" frankly is a little schizoid to me. I never desired that kind of schism in one person
Yes, you have somehow been conditioned that you need to have a "lady" to live with you, be your companion, etc, but that this "lady" is not for having sex with-you have to find a different woman ( or WOMEN) to have sex with. A healthy relationship that includes unabashed enjoyment in the bedroom is not "schizoid".

I am going to take a wild guess here and say that women are intimidated by men who might love them, but not desire them sexually, and might desire them sexually, but not love them, either way.

WTF? Maybe women who are screwed up in the head-but not emotionally healthy women. They aren't "intimidated" by a guy who can't love them in all ways- they are just disinterested. There may be women with their own set of dysfunctions that want a sexless companionship/provider/protector man-and other women who don't want "a life support system for a penis" underfoot all the time. But I bet that many of these women aren't going to go along with their partner having another woman in his life to fill the part of the deal she doesn't want to. I know that this is a big dream/fantasy of a lot of divorced men-to find a woman to have obligation-free sex with. Why in hell they persist in believing that these women abound,when it's clear that they DON'T, is just beyond my ken.


I dont see what the big deal is about that. Honestly.

Well- YOU were the one who brought up "Madonna/whore syndrome"- if it's not a big deal then why did you start the thread? Having trouble actualy FINDING 2 (or more) women to go along with your idea? Do you somehow believe that by posting a topic on an internet forum, women will see how "wrong" they are to not share your vision of the ideal relationship arrangement?
Good luck with that.
Cindy O
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 94
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 1:54:26 PM
I'm curious.......is the lady at home that's taking care of all your personal needs (other than sex) privy to the fact you're getting your nookie elsewheres?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 95
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 5:00:09 PM
well, Cindy O, you've certainly established what you want and how dysfunctional anyone else is for not wanting the same.

Too bad the world doesn't revolve around you, isn't it?
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 96
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 5:05:04 PM
Really
I will not have anything to do with Madonnas,
I want an adult woman, who is OK with being sexual, and is fun and playful
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 97
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:05:44 PM
MsMicki, if you are asking me this question, there is no lady at home at present. You've been laboring under the wrong assumption that I am attached to one woman and cheating with another or that I would condone or prescribe such a thing, which I do neither of.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 98
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:08:39 PM
well actually I wasn't presuming anything....
but you have repeatedly stated your desires for 2 women to fulfil these roles....
I'm only asking if both would know of the other if you did happen to make this happen.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 99
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:03:28 PM
MsMicki, I've already given you the answer, but again, of course they would.

And again, it is not my preference but neither is my preference to not have any relationship that isn't perfect and meet my each and every need and desire and wish, either.

All I've said is that I could be comfortable with it.

I probably DO have M/W syndrome or at least the tendency to do that, more so the tendency because it is more the exception than the rule in my case....we ALL look for all those things wrapped up into one person........but lately I question it.
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 100
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:08:42 PM

I'm only asking if both would know of the other if you did happen to make this happen
I'm also interested in the answer to this question... Also how would you feel about it if the "loved" woman also wanted to go out and get her sexual needs fulfilled outside of the relationship or do you feel that the "loved" woman is too "ladylike" to need those kind of sexual acts in her life?
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