Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Sex and Dating  > The Madonna/Whore Syndrome      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 124
The Madonna/Whore SyndromePage 7 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

but I asked why a parent couldn't stay home with their child when they were sick, especially an infant?

She told me, well, it's mostly the mothers that would have to and...blah, blah, blah.
Basically, its a place to dump your kids... especially for that single career woman on the go

But, by and large, the people who would get the greatest benefit from a "sick bay" child-care facility would be the mothers who had been forced to leave a bad marriage, and has a male parent now withholding/dodging support payments-so that she MUST work to provide for herself and her children.

Or would you prefer that women in that situation just go on welfare so everyone can regard them as pieces of sh*t?
What about single fathers? or should they also leave the workforce and go on welfare? What about parents that are single due to the death of the pother parent? Not everyone has a fat life insurance policy,and Social Security Benefits are really not adequate to be the sole income source.
And not every female in the workforce is a white-collar corporate-ladder climber. Many of them are working to either IMPROVE the economic standing of their family, or they are working because they MUST.



so mommy wouldn't lost her place on the corporate ladder by missing that big board meeting because her child is sick
Well, the other alternative would be to force DADDY to stay home with the sick child.

Let me tell you something-it isn't the white collar single-parent families that suffer when the parent has to miss work because the sick child can't go to the care facility. It's the blue collar families...the factory workers, the store clerks, the nurses' aides,the schoolteachers, the shelf-stockers. Those are the ones who suffer when work must be missed to care for a child with a cold.



When you have that connection and that trust, sex can be anything you desire it to be. It can be passion-filled or it can be hot 'n' dirty. Just my opinion.

Couldn't agree more. It is not that easy to find the perfect combination, but when you do...there is nothing like it. Ever.

Absofreakinlutely.



hearton64, so back in the day men drank like fish and cheated on their wives while all the poor codependent wives had to suffer it, eh? Where do you get this information?

Is it a little colored by your own experience, perchance?

So what if it IS colored by her own experience? It sounds like your ideas and opinions are colored by your experiences.


So we should go back to women using sex as a means to an end? Refusing sex until there is a ring on the finger? So the only way men could get sex without following the "proper" steps was to pay for it or pick up promiscuous women?



and they will willingly see women sent into combat to face the inevitable rape, injury, and death.


Many women who support equality were and are willing to step up and accept combat duty as part of the RESPONSIBILITY that goes along with gender equality.



In the eyes of such men,


The operative word there would seem to be "SUCH" men-not all men. Yes, some men simply used the gender equality philosophy as another means to exploit women in a different way. How is that the fault of women that some men are just self-serving jerks looking for another way to punish women for their existence?



A sea change has occurred in men who only several decades ago took pride in their ability to provide for wife and children.


What I see in this "sea change" is COUPLES who take pride in their occupations and use the increased revenue to provide above and beyond necessity for the children, and in order to create greater financial security for a rainy day-or a better retirement.

Among my siblings-3 families relied on MOMS' occupation to provide affordable health insurance, while Dad built up a business, or maintained an occupation of choice.



Decrying the lives of housewives as a "waste of a human self," Friedan likened them to people "with portions of their brain shot away and schizophrenics." Housewives are "less than fully human," she wrote, for they "have never known a commitment to an idea," "risked an exploration of the unknown," or "attempted . . . creativity."


It's been my experience and observation that most women who support practical feminism, have absolutely no use for the rantings of Ms Friedan and other radical feminists.

The TRUE purpose of gender equality was-and is- to provide a greater range of CHOICE. It was not meant to devalue traditional roles for those who chose them. Of course you get the radicals and the fringe voices that damage the philosophy-but it's my opinion that those uber-feminists were doing and saying what they believed to be most effective in getting their point across,in aid of opening the dialogue which led to women being recognized as equal citizens.
Cindy O
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 125
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:05:59 PM
"Feminists urged women to abandon homemaking and child-rearing as inferior activities and to enter the workplace so that women would become independent from men and gain equal political and economic power with them. In the words of economist Jennifer Roback Morse, a feminist who had second thoughts, the movement chose "'Having it All' as our slogan and equality of income as our goal," and so she says, "we embraced a shallow materialism and a mindless egalitarianism." Morse wisely asks: "When we harden our hearts to place a six week old baby into the care of strangers, who will moderate us?" The feminist egalitarianism that Morse speaks of is, it should be clear, only vis-à-vis men, not vis-à-vis other women. The movement has largely been concerned with professional women, and it is the most elitist of ideologies. Feminists denounce the worthlessness of homemaking and of child-rearing, yet the movement's goals require the existence of a servant class, a lower-class infrastructure of other women who will perform those domestic and child-rearing activities which feminists scorn."

Look familiar?

Our no-fault divorce regime that enables men to abandon and impoverish families was crucial to the feminist goal. By subverting housewives' social and economic security, no-fault enforces feminism's diktat that women must abandon homemaking for market production. Betty Friedan explained that feminist divorce policy purposely deprived women of alimony to force them into the workplace. No-fault tells mothers it is unsafe to devote oneself to raising children, warning them "that instead of expecting to be supported, a woman is now expected to become self-sufficient.""

Basically, you had upper middle class women who scorned motherhood and marriage, the majority of which embraced lesbianism, subverting traditional marriage and everyone bought into it under the guise of "equality". With it went the middle class and the ability for parents to make a better life for their children.

Now, in the vacuum, we have 1 in 3 kids born out of wedlock.......what are you looking for, 2 of 3? 3 of 3? ....and the media and corporations are so far up everyone's asses they make people's tongues wag.

You're not going to convince me that a home with two parents isn't the best possible arrangement for raising children, that they aren't declining, and it is a losing proposition all around for everyone.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 126
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:51:48 PM
OMFG, what a load of tripe.

Still in this day and age most women are still marrying, raising children, responsible for a career and doing the majority of household work (cooking, cleaning, child rearing).

Yes, there are one parent homes. Men abandon women, men don't acknowledge paternity and yes, some women think they can do well enough without a man in the house. And yes, I still think the two parent household is the best but it's not often realistic. OP, you're a divorced man - a failure at your relationship and a part time parent - facts of life, just like many out there.

"...the majority of which embraced lesbianism..." geez, get your head out of your azz. No wonder you have issues. Feminism didn't make me or my friends chase after gals instead of guys...wtf.

Feminism just made all of us equal human beings. It didn't destroy the family unit

You really have a skewed outlook on like. No wonder you're on your own. You have to find something to blame for your lot in life. Maybe look in the mirror. And Madonna/Whore - really, talk about juvenile.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 127
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:35:29 PM
here we go with the personal attacks from Welsh.

Do you have anything better to do than stalk me on the POF Forums?

Feminism made you a human being, really? Didn't destroy the family unit, eh?

And everyone who is on their own is a relationship failure with a skewed outlook on life?
All except you, of course.

At least I am not proud of being a "relationship failure". Being on a dating site isn't a "life" to me, it is to you, though ...and I imagine it will be as good as it gets for you for a long, long, long time after I have left here.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 128
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 3:17:55 PM
stargazin53, I am not hurting about anything and I didn't start the personal attacks nor wish to engage in any. The usual suspects here usual answer is that if you don't buy the feminist agenda, you're a loser.

If you really want to know, I see my ex-wife once a week, we're still friends and lovers, maybe be working on a business together, may not be, may even return to our marriage, may not, but for the time being free to pursue dating... nothing to be angry about!

What I AM angry about is that if a man gets a woman pregnant, she gets to make all the decisions and she decides on life and death and whether that man gets to go broke on child support for the next 21 years. TRUE equality is that if he doesn't want her to bear the child and she does, he should NOT have to pay for it and let HER raise it and pay for it for the next 21 years.

It's a rigged game for men, ANY woman who wants a child and have someone pay for it without the inconvenience of a husband he only to pick some guy up in a bar, take him home and **** him, and copy down his driver's ID #. It is NOT equality.

I am angry that the kind of people who worship feminists would consider my mother, my grandmother, my aunts, etc. who were proud wives, proud mothers and proud of the homes they made AND KEPT for their families were, in the words of Helen Gurley Brown, " unlike the housewife, she was "not a parasite, a dependent, a scrounger, a sponger, or a bum."

I listen to PBS a lot and from what I hear, our children are in trouble. One in three children are born out of wedlock and you folks are determined to make it two of three because your own personal wet dream is that "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". You see marriage as inherently abusive and "liberation" to you is being single. Period.

"""Professor Herma Hill Kay warns that reforming no-fault in order to protect women who have already chosen traditional roles will only "encourage future women to continue to select traditional roles." Kay concedes that "many couples still choose to follow the traditional allocation of family functions by sex," thus creating a family in which the wife and children depend on the husband "for support." But, says Kay, women must learn that "their unique role in reproduction ends with childbirth" and that "like men," they should "lead productive, independent lives outside the family." In order to teach this lesson to women, Kay argues, society must "withdraw existing legal supports" for traditional marriage, a goal, she says, that no-fault divorce laws now accomplish."

So, because you choose to be single or failed at marriage or whatever your personal circumstances are, it's not a matter of choice, it is AN AGENDA AGAINST TRADITIONAL MARRIAGES in the laws, in federal and state funding policies, and run rampant. It PUNISHES women and men for traditional marriages and REWARDS divorce and single motherhood.

To me, that is not about equality or "liberation". It's an AGENDA. Traditional families wield tremendous influence and economic power.......single parenthood doesn't yield shit except for a struggling parent.....and this AGENDA is fully backed up by the media and the corporations because once the traditional family and its influence and power are out of the way, they rule.

that's how I see it and yes, it makes me angry
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 129
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:16:44 PM
Paddy O Lantern

Awful expression "same old cow" but I kind of like it. Being taken for granted is common in a long relationship and leads to dissatisfaction sometimes. We should all have lovers and spouses as no one person can meet all our needs. Trouble is the green eyed devil jealousy makes that dangerous.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 130
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:23:27 PM
Has nothing to do with Madonna the pop star. The syndrome was around long before she appeared. It is more a religious thing referring to the Good Mother Mary type of image.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 131
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:11:33 PM
I'd like to know how this thread went from a guy wanting a pure little woman at home and a whore on the side. It's gone from this to blaming all th world problems on feminism and turning us women into lesbians and poor mothers and wives. Someone needs to give their head a shake.

Look, I can't remember the last time I had a discussion on feminism with my gal friends, maybe more than 15 years ago, maybe 20, maybe more. I thought the one good thing that came from the feminists was that it made the majority of us average folks become better human beings and that was a benefit to both genders. I have always wanted the same thing for my sons that anyone else would want for their daughters (I just happened to have 2 boys and no girls).

And I don't recall the feminist movement turning any of my friends into lesbians. I did help folks come out of the closet, both genders, and to me that was a good thing. You should be free to live your life as what you are - straight, gay or whatever.

I don't see feminism raising the divorce rates, all change is a natural progression. The more we know, the more we are aware, the more we are educated, the more we are self sufficient, the more options/choices we have. We don't have to put up with shyt because we are held down - and this goes for both genders. Men and women shouldn't stay in relationships that are toxic in one way or another.

We are not going back to the 50's. We will never live like our grandparents did. What we can do is walk through this life doing the best we can with what we have.

To blame all the ills of the world on feminism is not only pathetic but juvenile. Be a friggin human being, use some common sense and when all else fails - laugh about it and walk away. We can't change the world, we can only change ourselves and our attitude about it all. I don't give myself the "feminist" label, never have. But I thank those that walked the walk for making it better for both genders today. I am a humanist.

You can go back to looking for your Madonna and Whore now...good luck with that.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 132
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:52:44 PM
Oh, goody, feminism is over.........now let's have men's liberation.

1. If a man impregnates a woman, does not wish to have a child and she does and refuses to abort, let him have no financial responsibility for the child and abolish paternity suits.

It's the woman's body, if she has the power of life and death over a fetus, her choices....not the man's "fault". You can bet that women will make sure they have protected sex....

2. Either abolish no-fault divorce or make it very expensive for the petitioner if the reasons are other than spousal abuse, adultery, abandonment or willful non-support. The woman wants out, she goes with the shirt on her back, ditto for the man. Defendant keeps all, including custody of the kids.

It will probably reduce the rate of marriage and increase cohabitation, but you can bet that the 80% petition rate of women filing for no-fault divorce will shrink overnight.

3. Abolish preferential hiring of women and preferential contracts for women-owned businesses. You want equality? Compete with men on a level playing field.

4. Make working at home an option for either parent with children. Lots of people sit in front of monitors all day and they can do that at home. Not all jobs lend themselves to that, but people can choose jobs that offer it. Hell of a lot less traffic and pollution, too.

5. Give tax breaks for home-schooling. My former wife home-schooled her kids for 13 years and they turned out great, top students in high school, but she never got any break on property, state or federal taxes paid that didn't benefit her.

6. Expect women to pick up half the tab on dates with men.

7. Boost the tax refunds for married people with children and eliminate the exemptions for children with unmarried parents, in other words, make marriage pay.

8. If there is a military draft, include women in it, including combat. Maybe we won't be so eager to go to hellholes like Iraq and Afghanistan because it's "only men" who get killed.

And so on.........in other words, make the laws pro-marriage and pro-family and stop balancing women's "liberation" on the backs of children and men.

I'll be much nicer on these forums, too.
 windloverr
Joined: 2/29/2008
Msg: 133
view profile
History
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 9:09:17 PM
The Madonna/whore thing is maladaptive and pathological by definition; and is NOT the same thing as getting bored with your partner; which is also maladaptive; but much easier to fix.

I think I read that both married men and married women are more likely to orgasm with a stranger than a spouse,… i.e. sex is better when you don't love someone and it's "just sex" but not so great when it is love, over the years with different partners.

Personally, I can’t relate to this at all. In my experience, the sex has simply continued to get better and better over time. If it’s just an orgasm you’re looking for; I’ve found that once you figure your lover out physically and emotionally, you can bring them to orgasm in much less time with much less effort; and that’s when sex can get really fun. If sex is boring either buy a book, or see a counselor.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 134
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 9:33:48 PM
Back in message #126 Balsamica said

ladyc4, way back in the day I pretty much rejected the idea of marriage due to the lack of gender equality. I didn't see myself being a beast of burden for a woman

Then

I'm not bitter at all, my divorce was amicable.....FYI.


Really? Then why do you go off into this diatribe against feminism for ruining traditional marriage/gender roles-but you didn't WANT to be a "beast of burden" for a wife and family?
Which is it?
Or do you want control over a woman without any obligation to her? You don't want to be a "beast of burden"-but you don't want a wife to help share that burden? You want control of the wife and kids but not any burden for providing for them? Please explain to me just exactly how THAT works?


"When we harden our hearts to place a six week old baby into the care of strangers, who will moderate us?"


Well, if the baby's father doesn't want to be a "beast of burden" then who the hell is gonna provide food and shelter for that 6-week old baby?

Actually, in my world, caregivers for the children of working moms are usually grandparents or other extended family member, neighbors, or friends. I grew up in a home with both parents in the workforce,and 4 younger siblings- and nobody was "placed into the care of strangers". I still do not see a lot of babies being placed in the care of strangers.

I hate to break this to you, but without the changing paradigm-Jennifer Roback Morse would not have been able to obtain a PhD, she would not be able run an institute, she would not be able to be a researcher...she would have been allowed to go to college(maybe) to get her "Mrs." degree, and then she would have been expected to stay home where she belonged.


You're not going to convince me that a home with two parents isn't the best possible arrangement for raising children, that they aren't declining, and it is a losing proposition all around for everyone.


I don't think anybody here- or any reasonable person anywhere-is speaking out against marriage, family, and children being raised in a 2 parent home. Nobody here is preaching radical feminism.


Still in this day and age most women are still marrying, raising children, responsible for a career and doing the majority of household work (cooking, cleaning, child rearing).

Yes, there are one parent homes. Men abandon women, men don't acknowledge paternity and yes, some women think they can do well enough without a man in the house. And yes, I still think the two parent household is the best but it's not often realistic. OP, you're a divorced man - a failure at your relationship and a part time parent - facts of life, just like many out there.


that has certainly been my observation, as well.


"...the majority of which embraced lesbianism..."

Ms Morse is actually concerned with campaigning against same-sex marriages. She's probably homophobic. I certainly haven't witnessed a huge trend for "liberated" women to become lesbians.

Message #147- Wow. Just-wow.


OP, it looks to me like your heart and mind are just screamin'....whether you see yourself as bitter, angry, cynical, right, wrong or confused, superior, inferior, found, or lost.......you read like a man in the fresh pain and hurt of working out the transition of having ended a relationship. (or something!) All I read is anger, sadness, blaming women, good women this, bad women that. Look off to the horizon....see the mountain? Go there. Spend some time. On the way back down, if all this raw nastiness is still cookin'............go back. :)


Absofreakinlutely a-freakin'-men!


If you really want to know, I see my ex-wife once a week, we're still friends and lovers, maybe be working on a business together, may not be, may even return to our marriage, may not, but for the time being free to pursue dating... nothing to be angry about!

REALLY? So why in the world was there a divorce?


if a man gets a woman pregnant, she gets to make all the decisions and she decides on life and death and whether that man gets to go broke on child support for the next 21 years.


No, the man absolutely has the right to decide to keep his d*ck in his pants. Anyway, a good" Madonna "wouldn't be having sex outside of marriage.And even a child born to a "whore" is entitled to a life free from abject povety and want. Or is it your idea that being able to refuse financial support would be a way to pressure these bad women into getting abortions?


ANY woman who wants a child and have someone pay for it without the inconvenience of a husband he only to pick some guy up in a bar, take him home and **** him,

So, if men quit going along with that, then he wouldn't get himself into that kind of situation.


In order to teach this lesson to women, Kay argues, society must "withdraw existing legal supports" for traditional marriage, a goal, she says, that no-fault divorce laws now accomplish."


Really? It does accomplish that? Really? Then what is all this rant about women ruining marriage, ruining men-what is this about being a "beast of burden" for a wife and children. These forums are over-run with men ranting and raving about how they are financially victimized by a failed marriage-how is this still happening if "existing legal supports" have been withdrawn? Withdrawing legal supports will simply ensure that no woman in her right mind will be a "traditional" wife.


It PUNISHES women and men for traditional marriages and REWARDS divorce and single motherhood.


Oh? how does that statement track with
Traditional families wield tremendous influence and economic power.......single parenthood doesn't yield shit except for a struggling parent

So the "reward" for single motherhood is struggle? And the "punishment" for traditional marriage/family is
tremendous influence and economic power..


How about that highly paid female executive and single mother who callously left her infant with "strangers" so she could climb the corporate ladder? Is she struggling? With a 6 figure income, she wields no influence and economic power?


I'd like to know how this thread went from a guy wanting a pure little woman at home and a whore on the side. It's gone from this to blaming all th world problems on feminism and turning us women into lesbians and poor mothers and wives. Someone needs to give their head a shake.

NO LIE!!


I don't give myself the "feminist" label, never have. But I thank those that walked the walk for making it better for both genders today. I am a humanist.

Exactly. I've never embraced radicalism in either direction. I never burned my bra- I was a wiry little thing back then-and my Living Bras all died of starvation. Didn't NEED to burn 'em.


It's the woman's body,

but it's the mans' d*ck. If he's seriously concerned about fathering an unwanted child, let him govern himself accordingly.


Either abolish no-fault divorce or make it very expensive for the petitioner if the reasons are other than spousal abuse, adultery, abandonment or willful non-support.


In other words-go back to having to PROVE "fault". Where does that leave a husband whose wife just quits having sex with him...it would be very expensive to divorce her.


eliminate the exemptions for children with unmarried parents,


More economic coercion for staying in a marriage even if it's toxic, right?

BTW, which of the "big 4" was the grounds for YOUR divorce?

message#155- I agree with you-but this is not so much about sex having become "boring"-the OP wants a wife-type relationship for companionship and convenience OTHER than sex- a "Madonna"...and free rein to find sex elsewhere with a "whore".
Pathological is a good word for it.

Honoring St Pat-

Slainte!
Cindy O
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 135
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/16/2012 9:56:06 PM
CindyO: "Or is it your idea that being able to refuse financial support would be a way to pressure these bad women into getting abortions?"

Absolutely! With choice comes responsibility and a woman has the choice to abort or not abort, the man has NO choice in the matter and only the liabilities. That is UNFAIR.

"Withdrawing legal supports will simply ensure that no woman in her right mind will be a "traditional" wife."

You misread the woman's statement. She wanted the law to have no support for marriage so no women, as you said, in her right mind would marry. this is a feminist legislator in California, not a radical.

"you didn't WANT to be a "beast of burden" for a wife and family? Which is it?"

I was influenced by the 60's just as women were and rejected the role then, don't reject it now, real simple.

" Where does that leave a husband whose wife just quits having sex with him...it would be very expensive to divorce her"

Real simple, add that among the faults as long as it is a refusal, not a physical issue. Haven't quite worked out all the details when I run for office on the Men's Liberation platform, Cindy O.

"More economic coercion for staying in a marriage even if it's toxic, right?"

You ladies have a thing about toxic marriages, don't you. Just don't f**g get married!! Ever! Toxic? Would if your spouse came down with MS or had her breasts removed from cancer ... aren't those toxic, too?

"BTW, which of the "big 4" was the grounds for YOUR divorce?"

None of your business but we filed a joint petition.

"How about that highly paid female executive and single mother who callously left her infant with "strangers" so she could climb the corporate ladder? Is she struggling? With a 6 figure income, she wields no influence and economic power?"

You are confusing the influence of families on children's values and the economy vs. individuals.

"I don't think anybody here- or any reasonable person anywhere-is speaking out against marriage, family, and children being raised in a 2 parent home. Nobody here is preaching radical feminism. "

Bullshit. YOu've mostly described traditional marriage as toxic and that women are better off out of them, single and working in the marketplace ....pretty much inferred that my father and grandfather who worked like dogs to support wives and kids were drunks and cheaters and pretty much infer my mother and grandmother were stupid and codependant enablers.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 136
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 6:37:33 AM
mary-jane1963, yeah, whenever you propose REAL equality to feminists they get REAL personal and REAL pissed off, don't they?

They love that victim card............lol

FYI, I've never been anything but respectful and faithful to women. Simply don't feel the need to remarry or have a partner with everything all wrapped up into one person LIKE a marriage, either.

Not sure what the big deal is... except that having two women in my life gives them less power over me and boy, does that piss women off.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 137
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 7:44:42 AM
None of us are playing the victim card except you. No one seems pissed of either, just pointing out flaws in your logic or preception of the way things are in real life. You are the one that seems to be pissed off at the way things are these days.

As for not feeling a need to marry - that is your decision. And as for your thoughts of having two women in your life - that is your decision as well and why would it piss anyone off. If you find two women that fit what you want and what they want, why would we care, we don't care if you have three women and a sheep that make you happy just as long as the sheep gives full consent.

What seems to piss us off is your ranting regarding the ways things are todhiay and blaming it all on women, feminism, lesbians, abortion, no fault divorce and what ever other excuse you have in your pinhead brain.

As for turning the thread ugly - the OP has done a full turn around going from his need for affirmation of his desire for a madonna/whore to his rants on abortion, child support, lesbians, etc. Seems the majority that posted on here about the original topic pretty much laughed or discarded the old madonna/whore thing as unrealistic, juvenile, out dated and pathetic. I guess the OP was hoping for more support and then the thread turned. Seems weird to me as well.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 138
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 7:49:57 AM
You ladies have a thing about toxic marriages, don't you. Just don't f**g get married!! Ever! Toxic? Would if your spouse came down with MS or had her breasts removed from cancer ... aren't those toxic, too?


I will address this whole post in depth at a later time, frankly I am enjoying the mental exercise( some posters here may remember my post in another thread about the "You are Old, Father william" effect)but for the moment I want to clear something up....

I said

More economic coercion for staying in a marriage even if it's toxic, right?


The key word there is IF! At no time have I characterized marriage as "toxic" in and of itself. Why would I disrespect my late husband and my own marriage, my parents, my inlaws, and 4 happily married
siblings by labeling marriage as "toxic"? I will tell you that I am in no particular rush to get into another marriage or cohabiting LTR because so much of what I've encountered out here is toxic males.
And as far as toxic males or men who have to play power games, I'm not at all pissed off. I have no need to get with a man for economic reasons, I can put a toxic or dysfunctional male partner( or partner wanna-be),out of my life, and THAT , ny friend, is REAL power. No need to be pissed off about that!
Cindy O
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 139
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:00:44 AM
stargazin, I don't recall stating that I was the victim of anything except some confusion about having desires on two different tracks and trying to reconcile them. I've tried to keep my personal life out of it, which you gals seem to want to drag into the discussion, and I've tried to not insult anyone, which you gals seem very free to do........."pinhead brain" being the latest.

It looks like the same group of women, all of whom are hugely obese and cannot and will not find a date on this dating site, attacking and insulting other people and trying to appear so well adjusted when they certainly must have major health issues and would certainly benefit from less time here and more time at the gym.

You gals pulled the same stunt stalking that poor woman from Kansas, insulting her ...and of course, it had nothing to do with her being beautiful and desirable and having her choice of men and actually being in a real relationship.

I have issues? Y'all know you can't get a date and never will and your relationship days with men are OVER .... but you don't have any issues, just other people, right?
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 140
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:26:06 AM
"It looks like the same group of women, all of whom are hugely obese...." Really? Funny, I was trying on a pair of jeans at the GAP last night and the size 6 fit perfectly. And you seem to insult just as much as anyone else on here....

And as for "You gals pulled the same stunt stalking that poor woman from Kansas, insulting her ...and of course, it had nothing to do with her being beautiful and desirable and having her choice of men and actually being in a real relationship." No one was pulling any stunt on the poor woman in question for being beautiful and desirable - she got called out for being stupid. Why post a thread (two threads actually) b!tching about a man she sees once a week and then take 15 pages defending him? Maybe the man she was seeing had a Madonna/Whore thing going on and seeing she has sex with him we all know what role she plays - and maybe he has the Madonna safely tucked away in his little home with the white picket fence. And if you bothered to read the whole thread you would have noticed the common theme of advice given to the poor pretty stupid gal which was "look after yourself, determine your own needs, talk to him about your needs", etc. Yanno, you can turn a sows ear into a silk purse with the right amount of money but you can't fix stupid.

As for dates, had lots. I'm widowed after 31 wonderful years with my best friend and lover. I chose wisely the first time so why would I not choose wisely now. I like men, I adored my husband, I love my father, I have an excellent relationship with my surviving son, I have many male friends and I have remained friends with a number of men I dated (we just we're compatible relationship wise). I've never divorced and have no man to be angry at. And as for "can't get a date", well, I'm not the one banging my ex.

And if you think that we women are the only ones throwing insults, please, read your own posts. And I'll tell you what, I'll spend more time at the gym if you spend more time getting therapy to help with this "it's all the fault of women and feminists".
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 141
The Madonna/Whore Syndrome
Posted: 3/17/2012 3:16:45 PM

Maybe the man she was seeing had a Madonna/Whore thing going on and seeing she has sex with him we all know what role she plays - and maybe he has the Madonna safely tucked away in his little home with the white picket fence. And if you bothered to read the whole thread you would have noticed the common theme of advice given to the poor pretty stupid gal which was "look after yourself, determine your own needs, talk to him about your needs", etc.


anno-I kinda wondered the same thing about that particular thread...maybe the guy didn't actually have a "madonna" already safely tucked away, but I do think that the "relationship" that person was talking about had pretty much landed where it was meant to land-in FwB territory. Not that I have any quarrel with FWB-as long as both people are on the same page with it-not one thinking "we're in a relationship" and the other one thinking "we're just dating"or"we are FwB".


As for dates, had lots. I'm widowed after 31 wonderful years with my best friend and lover. I chose wisely the first time so why would I not choose wisely now. I like men, I adored my husband, I love my father,


That's pretty close to my story,as well, though I only got 25 yrs and his passing was sudden and completely unexpected. I have no son, and my Dad's been gone for 20 years-but I pretty much am about the same as Welsh.

However, I'm looking at the current tone of the OPs' responses, and I agree, we have gotten pretty far from what was supposed to be the actual topic here. Or was the intent for the OP to seek provocation for a war of words against women who have better sense than to take him seriously?


I don't know if there is a female equivalent to this, but it applies to women as well for those who are attached to a "good" guy but still attracted to the "bad" boys.


Well, we do hear-from time to time-men b*tching about conniving women who are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
But by and large-what we read here is angry men who believe that women ignore "good guys",allegedly preferring to get with "losers and pieces of crap 'bad boy' types"-NOT that women are trying to have the bungalow&white picket fence guy for companionship and support, AND the "bad boy" for all the fun stuff. Don't hear about too many cases of women trying to have both at the same time.

I do believe that there can be situations where people experience an involvement that isn't very close at all to the "total package". But those don't seem to last, whether it's a FwB with 2 people that aren't a good LTR match, or a LTR that is chosen by practicality and pragmatism. You take out the 'spark' of good sex, OR the comfort of a compatible partner-and it most likely will not be a long-lasting relationship. Perhaps this is part of the reason for the high divorce rate?-people are settling for "half a loaf is better than none" and then finding out you can't sustain a "half a loaf" relationship over the long haul?

The OP wanted to know how the Madonna/whore syndrome gets resolved-then proceeds to ARGUE with nearly every suggestion as to how to do so. Then it becomes a claim that "Madonna/whore" syndrome gives men power over women-which is apparently what the OP is actually looking for. He doesn't want to "resolve" anything, he wants to have "power" over the woman/womEn in his life. Apparently it's NOT working, otherwise why would he be posing the question?
Or is this whole thread just manufactured excuse for the OP to lash out at the women who aren't going along with his ideas?

From the OP


I've had other relationships where there was love, sex, and all of that ...and I'd be fine with that again, too! I just don't feel the NEED to have all that combined in one person.

Well, then-if you know what needs you do and don't feel-why the question? Why do you want to know about resolving your M/W sysndrome? Are you not having much luck finding women to go along with the deal?



If you really want to know, I see my ex-wife once a week, we're still friends and lovers, maybe be working on a business together, may not be, may even return to our marriage, may not, but for the time being free to pursue dating... nothing to be angry about!


Then why ARE you!? If things are so amicable with your wife,why NOT return to your marriage? Or won't she let you have the pet whore?


Until the OP turned this topic into a rabid anti-feminist rant, citing feminist writers that nobody pays much attention to anymore-if they ever did!-and anti-feminist female writers who couldn't hack-or CLAIMED they couldn't-combining family and career, there had been a number of male posters who participated in this topic. While one or 2 said they understood the concept, and one brave gentleman reported having a close brush with the syndrome, and resolved it by he and his wife getting therapy -but I didn't see ONE man agreeing with the syndrome, or reporting that they were looking to set up a madonna/whore relationship with 2(or more?) women.
One FEMALE poster commented that she found she enjoyed sex more without being in a relationship-but I saw no actual commiseration or support for you from the men who participated in this thread. I think one did hit on a way to resolve it-THERAPY.

BTW, I didn't notice that these men were hugely obese, and several of them often speak of the relationships they are currently in, so I don't think the "have no life/will never get a date" retort applies either.
Now, I must ask to be excused as I must go and return phone calls/emails from men that I'll never get a date with (according to the OP).

For Ireland and St Patrick-slainte!

Cindy O
Ps-did y'all know that St Pat was actually WELSH? Who knew!?
Show ALL Forums  > Sex and Dating  > The Madonna/Whore Syndrome