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 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 276
The War on WomenPage 12 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
Wow. Can you share your alternate reality machine with the rest of us? Or are you just watching Fox?

Because nothing you said has any basis in THIS reality.

127 bills attcking womens health, womens rights, and not one for jobs, despite running on a jobs platform to get elected, but theres no war on women.

State after state posting new laws that are almost identical in wording and intent, but theres no co-ordinated attack on womens rights, nooooo. Just like it was a coincident that Union busting bills in Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere all just happened to show up at the same time, sponsored written and funded by the same people,right? Never mind Scott Walker spilling the beans when he thought he was actually talking to his bosses, the Koch brothers.

Pure co-incidence. Sure, you betcha. Stick your head back in the machine.
 shadow939
Joined: 12/1/2009
Msg: 277
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:34:06 AM
Union busting bills? Ask you Commander in Chief why we outsoursed Union Jobs on Infastructure, to China? Why are they building our bridges? I am sure the Steel Workers Union could have used those jobs?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 278
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:58:08 AM
At a sprawling manufacturing complex here, hundreds of Chinese laborers are now completing work on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.

Next month, the last four of more than two dozen giant steel modules — each with a roadbed segment about half the size of a football field — will be loaded onto a huge ship and transported 6,500 miles to Oakland. There, they will be assembled to fit into the eastern span of the new Bay Bridge.

The project is part of China’s continual move up the global economic value chain — from cheap toys to Apple iPads to commercial jetliners — as it aims to become the world’s civil engineer.

The assembly work in California, and the pouring of the concrete road surface, will be done by Americans. But construction of the bridge decks and the materials that went into them are a Made in China affair. California officials say the state saved hundreds of millions of dollars by turning to China.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html?pagewanted=all

Two questions:

1) Bridges built for California have what to do with President Obama?

2) In what way does union labor or offshoring infrastructure work have to do with The War On Women?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 279
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 2:00:04 PM
ah, grizzelda........if you don't want anyone to be involved in a woman's choices about pregnancy, go repeal the paternity laws and stop making the men who don't want those children pay for 21 years, ok? They can abort, just not always when they like it.

Anyway, you missed my point. This is not just the private property of a woman inside her womb or outside it, either. It is a father's potential child and a grandparent's potential child, they cannot be ignored. Ultimately, it may be the woman's decision and I have agree with that but who the hell do you think you are, God? Ultimate power over life or death and to hell with everyone else?

Some women abort because there is no support around them, some elect to have the child when there are supports around them..............and some are even married and,....OMG! WTF!!!!!....consult with their husbands about a pregnancy! OMG!!!!

I am all for abortion........but I think from the male side that it is CRIMINAL when a man is hounded for child support from a woman who elected to have a child that he doesn't want when she can very easily abort it. You ladies want it both ways, rights without responsibilities. And then when you DO want a child, stick it in daycare at a month old.........

There is nothing wrong with considering other people, especially your family and the man, in a decision to have an abortion or bear a child. In the case I pointed out, it was a damned good thing that young woman had the support of her church community around her and had a wonderful son.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 280
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 3:56:21 PM

There is no war on women, the democratic tactics are washed up. No one said these women had to work for Catholic Oragization, except Catholic Insurance, or go to Catholic Universities, a free mind can pick whats right for them, and not want to destroy what is right for others. Like poor Miss. Sanda Flake, they made her to look like a struggling Coed, who is actually 30 years old, specificly read through Georgetowns policies before going there, and looking for a way to attack these policies, shes a plant, and was been involved with Feminist Groups for a decade.


The shear number of bills introduced and passed by the teataliban has spiked since 2010. Women see this where sperm donors ignore it.

Catholic schools and hospitals operate as public services, while at the same time taking tax breaks and incentives that all Americans subsidize. They also employ and treat all sectors of our cultures. The Church, with all that added tax free money, has been on a buying binge, taking over hospitals in large cities to the point where there are few or no options for treatment or care without driving prohibitive distances, particularly for the poor, disabled, and others. The Catholic church institutions reap the benefits of the seperation clause as a business without adhering to the rights of employees and their clientelle. Now such health facilites service 1/6th of the population.
In doing so, they are trying to exert their religious views on their staff and patients. If they had to compete in the free market, under the same rules and without their special bennies, they could not exist.
http://www.choicematters.org/articles/under-the-knife-and-the-cross/

Ms. Fluke is merely a woman, trying to get a quality education, using her 1st Ammendment Right to speak truth to injustice. She is merely an extension of the social justice movement, a Rosa Parks, MLK, Susan B. Anthony, trying to challenge an unjust system from the inside out. The fact that she is educated, articulate and right pisses off the partisans of patriarchy. She must be called names and have her character assassinated for daring to speak that which they would prefer be ignored.

As a man who has lived a life with dearly beloved family and friended women who have been raped, abaondoned by mates when pregnant, been in abusive relationships, entertained suicide from guilt trips, and nearly died from these and many other scenarios, I fully support the rights of all women to make their own choices. If you don't want to feel persecuted for impregnating a woman who refuses to get an abortion or carries the child to term and life for decades, keep your d*ck in your pants, and your mouth shut when she exhibits the exact same rights that men have.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 281
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 4:31:24 PM
Hey, earthpuppy..........pal, women have ALL the rights and men have few. They're half the population but qualify as a minority and given preferential hiring.

I am ALL FOR equality and that isn't it.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 282
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 4:56:16 PM
Balsamica...there are safe sites for you to spew. MGTOW, Happy Bachelors, Spearhead and many others are safe harbors for your need for victimhood and misogyny.

It's a growing movement, in need of fresh indignation and rhetoric, and stale in blame the women who got my sperm and screwed up my life mangina nonsense. You will like it there in the echo chamber of losers and women haters. Have fun.

http://happybachelorsforum.com/
http://mengoingtheirownway.blogspot.com/
http://www.the-spearhead.com/

Links to many other sites who love the 2 minute hate of women with kudos and self affirmation abundant. You will love it there...far more than in the real world where men and women think and actually exchange ideas and real concerns.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 283
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:51:02 PM
eathpuppy, awwww, you're all woman lover and I'm all woman hater, huh? How nice for you..........:-)

The fact is, something has been missing along with women's liberation...........men's liberation! As a matter of fact, in the past 50 years just about everybody got liberated except for one small group.........men.

I suppose that if I were gay, I could be legally married now but it doesn't help me as a white, heterosexual male in America with pretty much the same "rights" and "responsibilities" men had in, say, 1945? here in 2012.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 284
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:03:51 PM

I suppose that if I were gay, I could be legally married now but it doesn't help me as a white, heterosexual male in America with pretty much the same "rights" and "responsibilities" men had in, say, 1945? here in 2012.

So what rights has the poor oppressed white man been denied?
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 285
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:53:36 PM
Actually, women's liberation has liberated men. If you had any knowledge or insight into feminism, you would know that. Instead, you would rather grind your 'I've been forced to pay for my child' axe.

On a side note, since when have heterosexual men not been allowed to get married?

Also, how do you know that women get preferential treatment in hiring? Perhaps they are just the superior candidate.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 286
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:23:06 PM
Aristotle...........some quotes:

Rich Doyle wrote of the view of the men's rights movement concerning the court handling of divorces and child custody processes.

Divorce courts are frequently like slaughter-houses, with about as much compassion and talent. They function as collection agencies for lawyer fees, however outrageous, stealing children and extorting money from men in ways blatantly unconstitutional... Men are regarded as mere guests in their own homes, evictable any time at the whims of wives and judges. Men are driven from home and children against their wills; then when unable to stretch paychecks far enough to support two households are termed "runaway fathers." Contrary to all principles of justice, men are thrown into prison for inability to pay alimony and support, however unreasonable or unfair the "obligation."

Paternity fraud

Paternity fraud occurs when a mother intentionally identifies a man as a biological father, who she knows is not the father. According to estimates in the United States there might be as many as 800,000 incorrect paternity judgement in California alone (because of defaults). Once so judged, it is extremely difficult or even impossible to get liability for child support removed. In some cases a husband is legally responsible for his wife's children even if the child is not his own.

Education

Men's rights activists describe the education of boys as being in crisis, with boys having reduced educational achievement and motivation as compared to girls. Advocates blame the influence of feminism on education for discrimination against and systematic oppression of boys in the education system. They critique what they describe as the "feminization" of education, stating that the predominance of female teachers, a focus on girls' needs as well as a curricula and assessment methods that favour girls have proved repressive and restrictive to men and boys. Men's rights approaches call for increased recognition of masculinity, greater numbers of male role models, more competitive sports, and the increased responsibilities for boys in the school setting. They have also urged for clearer school routines, more traditional school structures, including single sex classes, and stricter discipline.

And so on and so on. Let me give a sweet example, which did not happen to me but happened to men I've known: husband at work, wife goes to the court, files divorce petition, gets restraining order based on "fears", husband comes home, Police waiting, gets 20 minutes to pack his bags and get out, etc..........and the chances of a man being able to do that? Zero.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 287
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:44:31 PM

The fact is, something has been missing along with women's liberation...........men's liberation! As a matter of fact, in the past 50 years just about everybody got liberated except for one small group.........men.
Probably because they already were liberated ... had all the "rights" and "responsibilities" they wanted!

I've been a nurse for 15 years and yet no matter where I work, male nurses still always earn more than the female nurses with equal credentials. Best example I can think of is a situation a bunch of my classmates got into right after graduation. A brand new nursing home opened just prior to our graduation and we all went over and applied. Guys who graduated with me, who had the exact same experience as I did (and lower grade averages), when working the same job (same nursing unit as I worked) got at least $2.50 more per hour than I did.

I never missed one day of school or any rotation and had a 3.8 grade average when I graduated, but the men were paid more than me and even got promotions much more quickly than the ladies.

Women's liberation took the pressure off of a man to be the sole bread winner. When I was growing up, my mother worked full work weeks. She was very well-educated yet men half her age doing the same job with fewer credentials earned more than she did.
 twelfth_dimension
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 288
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:20:06 PM

The fact is, something has been missing along with women's liberation...........men's liberation! As a matter of fact, in the past 50 years just about everybody got liberated except for one small group.........men.


You know what other group has been consistently overlooked in this quest for civil liberties?
White people.
Especially wealthy and upper middle class white Americans
Where is the clamor for the liberation of rich white people?
I don't get it.
No mention of the oppression of white, college-educated doctors, lawyers and CEOs of fortune 500 companies
Why?
I am outraged.
Where are their rights?
We have civil rights, women's lib, gay rights, illegal immigrants' rights, but none for privileged white people?
When will the hypocrisy end?
 magicallaroundme
Joined: 3/9/2011
Msg: 289
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:26:19 PM
It doesn't really matter. Suppose there is a "War on Women" going on. What are they going to do about it and if they decide to do anything at all what do you want to bet they are going to persecute men who have no hand in it at all rather than politicians, business people and the judiciary that are actually responsible for it? My heart just aches over the "War on Women". If they got off their entitled asses and did something to these monsters then we would all be better off. Until then they are deserving of everything that can be dished out. Damn, how I wish the patriarchy would start oppressing me for a change!
 kevin157
Joined: 10/19/2008
Msg: 290
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:46:41 PM
Sorry but I don't think the government has any business forcing employers to offer birth control coverage in their health insurance plans. Aside from rape, if you're going to be sexually active you should be responsible enough to purchase your own birth control. If your employer wants to offer it, more power to them--that's their right. I don't see why your employer should be responsible in any way for your sex life. If you dontlike your employer's health plans for any reason, feel free to purchase your own coverage or work somewhere else.

I carry a gun for work and often work alone at night yet my employer does not offer health insurance. A small part of my hourly pay is for me to purchase my own insurance. I can pocket the money and not buy insurance too. It's my call. It's my responsibility to cover myself. The government has no business telling my employer what kind of insurance it has to offer me, if any.

Why not force all employers to cover dental as well? Surely Obama cares about women's (and men's) oral health too??! I'm tired of both sides turning the birth control debate into a political sideshow. Stay out of it and let health care be between the individual and his/her employer and/or health care provider.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 291
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 9:49:36 PM
B/C is not only for pregnancy prevention. It also has many off label uses for many health issues.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 292
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 10:35:20 PM

no matter where I work, male nurses still always earn more than the female nurses with equal credentials.


Why don't those employers just fire the men and hire only women, if they'll do the very same work for less money? All the savings in payroll would mean that much more profit.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 293
The War on Women
Posted: 4/3/2012 10:51:28 PM
cotter, a bit of a stretch to say that ALL male nurses get paid more than ALL female nurses. First, people seldom compare salaries, second if that might have been the case at your particular hospital it was wrong, third you can generalize over the entire country from your particular example. Dubious, to say the least, especially in a profession that females dominate.
 kevin157
Joined: 10/19/2008
Msg: 294
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 1:03:17 AM
Either way the government should not get involved in my opinion. It's between you and your employer or employees.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 295
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 8:09:54 AM
"Abortion is murder. Women belong in the home raising children, not competing for the same jobs as the men who are supposed to provide for them."

Yeah, you are just a champion of human rights.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 296
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 8:47:20 AM
eathpuppy, awwww, you're all woman lover and I'm all woman hater, huh? How nice for you..........:-)

The fact is, something has been missing along with women's liberation...........men's liberation! As a matter of fact, in the past 50 years just about everybody got liberated except for one small group.........men.

I suppose that if I were gay, I could be legally married now but


Quite possibly the silliest comment I've seen here to date.

The only people who scream about being oppressed are those who don't like it when the rest of the world ends up on equal footing as them. Suddenly, they're not top of the heap any more, and they need liberating.

And again, Balsamic, if you don't want to worry about paternity issues, the solution is very simple. Wear a condom.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 297
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 8:57:46 AM
[Quote] Sorry but I don't think the government has any business forcing employers to offer birth control coverage in their health insurance plans. Aside from rape, if you're going to be sexually active you should be responsible enough to purchase your own birth control. If your employer wants to offer it, more power to them--that's their right. I don't see why your employer should be responsible in any way for your sex life. If you dontlike your employer's health plans for any reason, feel free to purchase your own coverage or work somewhere else.

I carry a gun for work and often work alone at night yet my employer does not offer health insurance. A small part of my hourly pay is for me to purchase my own insurance. I can pocket the money and not buy insurance too. It's my call. It's my responsibility to cover myself. The government has no business telling my employer what kind of insurance it has to offer me, if any.

Why not force all employers to cover dental as well? Surely Obama cares about women's (and men's) oral health too??! I'm tired of both sides turning the birth control debate into a political sideshow. Stay out of it and let health care be between the individual and his/her employer and/or health care provider. [/qoute]

You seem to be unaware that Employer provided insurance is part of the employee payment package. Employees DEFER some of their pay in favor of getting health insurance bought by the employer, on the reasoning that an employer can get a better rate for the insurance (because they're insuring a larger amount of people) than the employee could buying insurance singly. In short, it's PART of the employee's pay. Should your employer be allowed to tell you what the insurance company should pay for based on your bosses, prejudices? If your employer is a Jehovah's Witness, for example, he could deny you a blood transfusion that would save your life, based on HIS religious beliefs. Do you really want that?
All the Goverment did was to say that an insurance agency could NOT exclude services because of their religious beliefs. The same people screaming about "Goverment Interference" would be screaming bloody blue murder if the insurance companies were excluding coverages based on say, Islamic laws.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 298
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 2:31:29 PM
Should your employer be allowed to tell you what the insurance company should pay for based on your bosses, prejudices?


Of course. If an employer chose to contract with the owner of his building to pay for his employees' parking, or not to, he could do that too.


The same people screaming about "Goverment Interference" would be screaming bloody blue murder if the insurance companies were excluding coverages based on say, Islamic laws.


I wouldn't care at all. If the proprietors of the local Islamic center wanted to exclude coverage for some medical procedure their faith disapproved of from their employees' insurance plans, fine.


If your employer is a Jehovah's Witness, for example, he could deny you a blood transfusion that would save your life, based on HIS religious beliefs.


Why not? The policy would explain what was covered and what was not. Any prospective employee who was concerned about that could either choose to work elsewhere, take his chances there, or arrange his own coverage of blood transfusions. A private employer should be able to deny employees a coffee pot in the lunch room, just because he hates coffee, or make them recite a hokey company cheer every morning, just to make fun of them, or just about any other damn thing he pleases. It's his business--if he were a dumb enough jerk to treat his employees that badly, he'd have to pay so much extra to get or keep them that the sky-high payroll would soon drown him and his business in red ink.

To portray women as children or victims who constantly need to be protected, whenever some responsibility is concerned, but when the subject shifts to some right, to then quickly start insisting how competent, equal, and independent they are, is to try to have it both ways. And it's asking for people not to take either claim very seriously.

Women in this country have just as much voting power as men, if not more. Just as much as men, they are adults who know their own minds, and I trust them to make decisions to protect their interests.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 299
view profile
History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 2:56:59 PM
These laws are unfair.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/20-week-abortion-ban-nebraska-oklahoma-fetus-feel/story?id=13116214#.T3y_h9VdOM9
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 300
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 4:11:56 PM

These laws are unfair.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/20-week-abortion-ban-nebraska-oklahoma-fetus-feel/story?id=13116214#.T3y_h9VdOM9


There is a time when fairness must be balanced with rational thinking and empathy. The case you list is a problem because the law got in the way of a medical decision. The law should not get in the way of medical decisions but should still be througfully considered as valid for abortions of choice. 20 weeks should be enough time to get your head together and make a decision. Pregnancy is 40 weeks total. Pick a lane.

20 weeks based on pain is invalid
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12961114

Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. Little or no evidence addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic techniques. Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly applicable to abortion procedures.
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