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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 301
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The War on WomenPage 13 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
As much as I hated Nixon for being such an azzhat on keeping the Vietnam debacle going for mere political gain, sacrificing millions of innocent beings for that gain, he did sign into law the EPA, CAA, CWA, and a myriad of bi-partisan changes in how we are responsible for killing other people via greed, ignorance and personal gain. Granted, he was working with the so-called liberals du jour, but they all eventually leaned extremely far right after the Southern Strategy, to the point that none of those people would be recognized by either party today. The lowering of the bar has accelerated so fast, that no one from the far right of a mere decade or two ago could possibly meet the standards of today's fascists.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=3757#axzz1qWvCAJHD
 kevin157
Joined: 10/19/2008
Msg: 302
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 4:45:32 PM
Exactly. I'm in agreement with matchlight. Since it's your employer who purchases it, it is your employer who should decide. As long as you know what's covered and what's not, you have the freedom to buy your own coverage.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 303
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 4:59:41 PM
Argh, once again, b/c is NOT only perscribed for pregnancy prevention. It is also used to treat a multitude of other health conditions in women. Furthermore, employees pay for their insurance.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 304
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 5:11:25 PM
^


I don't understand how people could justify voting for either party. The only thing politicians are good for in my opinion is target practice.


yes we know. Them, and anyone who resembles Trayvon Martin, according to your twisted, sick hateful "beliefs"
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 305
The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 8:37:22 PM

Exactly. I'm in agreement with matchlight. Since it's your employer who purchases it, it is your employer who should decide. As long as you know what's covered and what's not, you have the freedom to buy your own coverage.


You don't seem to understand the concept here. Your employer isn't paying for your insurance, YOU are. You defer X amount of pay in order for your employer to use YOUR money, pooled with that of the rest of your co workers, to use those numbers to negotiate a lower insurance rate for all of you. It's still your money paying for it.


<div class="quote">you have the freedom to buy your own coverage.

But in actuality, you don't, because the cost of a single person coverage could easily outstrip your meager paycheck, especially if you're a starting out or downsized worker in a McJob, struggling to make ends meet. Insurance is freaking expensive, which is why employers agree to negotiate for the group of employees. (Of course, if we had a national healthcare system where we all paid the same, this whole issue would be moot, but I digress.)
Furthermore, what we're seeing here isn't the insurance agencies being open and honest, and putting these new conditions up front, they are in fact, trying to change the rules on policies that have already been written, and have been carried in some cases for years.

Using your logic, your employer has a right to tell you how to spend your paycheck and where you can spend it, because it comes from him.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 306
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/4/2012 10:20:18 PM

Freedom to live in servitude...and proud of it. Seriously, no wonder why so many employers feel free to take advantage of their workers, seems everyone is okay with it.


M'lady the queen hath spoken. Let them eat cake.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 307
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/5/2012 2:11:04 AM
As opposed to your astute observation that people who don't subscribe to your way of thinking are slaves. I think peasents would be more appropriate right. Maybe not quite up to your bourgeois standards.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 308
The War on Women
Posted: 4/5/2012 7:47:49 AM
"You don't seem to understand the concept here. Your employer isn't paying for your insurance, YOU are. You defer X amount of pay in order for your employer to use YOUR money, pooled with that of the rest of your co workers, to use those numbers to negotiate a lower insurance rate for all of you. It's still your money paying for it."

This is exactly how the majority of workplace benefit packages work. In my office some of the employers pay a portion of the employees benefit package (as a perk) while other employees pay 100% of the plan. I pay for my plan. I am happy to be in the group plan as it is far cheaper to be in the group than it is for me to buy my own plan. In a group plan you can get coverage at a lower rate - you're in a group. My plan covers birth control - it is not an option that the employers selected, it is part of the package they put together and you can't opt out of paying for birthcontrol (how friggin backward is opting out of birthcontrol but that's my opinion).

Man, I sure don't have a problem regarding a "war on women" in my country but I'll tell ya, from what I've read about the good ole US, you guys have some scarey shit going on. In some ways you are so far ahead of the pack by then again, you are also at the back of the pack. Everyone can pack a friggin gun but heaven forbid someone wants birthcontrol, an abortion or just equal pay.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 309
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/5/2012 9:53:26 AM
^^^^^"Wage slave" is a contradiction in terms dressed up to sound clever. Slaves don't get paid to work, and wages are the bargained-for compensation an employee gets in exchange for his labor. The employer may provide health insurance as part of that compensation, just as it may provide free parking or travel expenses or movie tickets.

I don't know who you mean by "you guys"--I don't listen to any corporate hacks at Fox News. So they can't have me believing anything. But I doubt they've convinced many people "that anything businesses do to their employees is benevolent." Most of us know that corporations are created and exist only to make profit for those who have a financial interest in them.

Neither employer or employee owes the other anything except what each has agreed to provide. And although there are always local disruptions where the supply of qualified labor is temporarily greater or less than the demand for it, as long as the market for labor is operating, neither side has any permanent advantage.

An employee who wants more complete medical insurance than his employer is willing to offer is free to work for someone else. In the same way, if an employer thinks it can cut back the medical insurance it provides and still attract the workers it needs, it should be free to do that.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 310
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/5/2012 10:59:39 AM

The employer may provide health insurance as part of that compensation, just as it may provide free parking or travel expenses or movie tickets.


I get all of those + insurance and guess what... so do all women who work for the same company. We even had free lunch but things got tough and that was restricted and then eventually taken away as a benefit.

It sucked too. It's easy to get use to having a benefit and you feel it when they are lost. That is the danger of government benefits. The likelyhood of them being restricted by government due to cost concerns is significantly high. So don't do it if you can help it.

ThinkingInLA - Its great that you don't work for someone. Good for you. Do you employee others and manage their insurance and taxes as well as pay in additional for their retirement. If so that is very impressive and I hope that you are able to keep some of your earnings if you make over 250k because you are the 1%. Do you employee multiple families that have multiple kids. That insurance is expensive. Hope you subsidize them. 100% is a great benifit. The company I was at paid 100% but was bought out by another company that only subsidized. It would be great having a boss that felt as you did. That way you would cover all medical for all employees. Thats great. You cover dental and vision 100% also? Need some life insurance as well. Hmmm Well I do have all of those but susidized. Would be great working for you though since it would all be free. Will you cover cosmetic surgery? How about outpatient therapy? You know... my kids got to go to college. You have tuition services right? Wow... all the things that are covered under my company....

I'm such a slave.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 311
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/5/2012 12:50:44 PM
its funny
has anyone stopped to think, if religious fanatics get away with this
what else are they going to want!
religion and religious views should be separate from the government ,period
and they, religious organizations, should be taxed like any other business
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 312
The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 1:17:50 PM
ThinkingInLA - Its great that you don't work for someone. Good for you. Do you employee others and manage their insurance and taxes as well as pay in additional for their retirement. If so that is very impressive and I hope that you are able to keep some of your earnings if you make over 250k because you are the 1%. Do you employee multiple families that have multiple kids. That insurance is expensive. Hope you subsidize them. 100% is a great benifit.


There you go again...have you no shame...asking personal questions of a woman poster...one might think you are a stalker.

LOL...the 1% have incomes in excess of $250k:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Think it takes a million bucks to make it into the Top 1% of American taxpayers?
Think again. In 2009, it took just $343,927 to join that elite group, according to newly released statistics from the Internal Revenue Service.
But just who are these fortunate folks at the top of the income ladder?
Well, there were just under 1.4 million households that qualified for entry. They earned nearly 17% of the nation's income and paid roughly 37% of its income tax.
Collectively, their adjusted gross income was $1.3 trillion. And while $343,927 was the minimum AGI to be included, on average, Top 1-percenters made $960,000.
Meet the Occupy Wall Street protesters
But the income threshold for this exclusive group changes every year, largely with the performance of the stock market, experts said.
"The further up you go, the wider swings you see," said Pete Sepp, spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union. "They have a great deal of wealth sunk into the markets, which can vary quite widely."
Many workers in the securities industry in New York likely qualify for the Top 1%.
A separate study found that financial professionals made up about 14% of the top rank in 2005.
Occupy Wall Street protesters have been railing against the Top 1%, trying to raise anger and awareness of the growing economic gap between the rich and everybody else in America.
In 2007, when times were good on Wall Street, one needed to have an adjusted gross income of more than $424,000 to get into the highest rank. But the stock market decline in recent years has helped lower that bar back to a level not seen since 2002.
While much of the wealthy's income comes from capital gains on investments, bonuses on the job can also give people the needed boost.
These folks, many of whom work only blocks from where protesters are gathering in Zuccotti Park, made an average salary of just over $311,000 in 2009, according to the state Comptroller's Office. (This figure does not take into account certain income, losses and deductions that make up adjusted gross income.)
While those at the top have seen their incomes soar over time, middle-class incomes have stagnated.
"The higher up the income distribution you go, the more your income rose and the larger the share of total income gains went to your group," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
"There is a lot of anger and it's for a very good reason," Wolff said. "If all of the income gain goes to the top, there's not much left to go to the rest of the people." Correction: An earlier version of this story included an incorrect timeframe for IRS income data. The most recent figures from the IRS are for 2009.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_income/index.htm
 stratdigger3
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 313
The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 1:24:13 PM
I've seen several post in here claiming that "It isn't your employer paying for the coverage, it's you". In reality, you pay less of the cost than the employer does. Without the employer putting up more than half and creating a block of employees buying at a discount, then your share would more than double. I have to say that any claim that the employer isn't paying for the healthcare, is a false claim that does not involve the facts.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 314
The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 4:59:24 PM

US, you guys have some scarey shit going on.


It is actually far more frightening than you might think. For about forty years now, a small cartel of very wealthy individuals have been using their money and influence in an attempt to control the majority of the population. In North Korea, before his death, every household was required to have a portrait of the "Dear Leader" hanging on the wall. Here in the United States it may soon be required that every home display a framed photo of Charles and David Koch. Surprisingly, many Americans won't mind this once Fox News tells them that not displaying Dave and Charley on the mantel would be un-American.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 315
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 6:25:52 PM
I think before you know it birth control will be prescribed for things beyond contraception and the idea of "Do no harm" will force jduiciaries to compell institutions to not endanger the health of their employees. IMO its the way it should be and must be.

Thinking in California's message 357 was the second woman slapping another one that really had it coming to them I've seen tonight. Employers want the world to have children, even if the parents don't want to have them. Same reason suicide is a sin. Civilization is predicated on growth.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 316
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 8:51:28 PM
double cabin, thinking in california was replying to a man, Kevin is a cross dresser, not a woman or a transgendered person.
 click4love
Joined: 3/21/2012
Msg: 317
The War on Women
Posted: 4/6/2012 11:59:27 PM
Wow am I glad to be Canadian, eh?!
 stratdigger3
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 318
The War on Women
Posted: 4/7/2012 9:12:59 AM
[ Here in the United States it may soon be required that every home display a framed photo of Charles and David Koch.]

That's funny. Lol. Especially since these fellows are not trying to force state run healthcare on us. Perhaps we should be forced to have pictures of those forcing things on us. Obama, Pelosi, Biden, Reid. I will be glad if the healthcare law is thrown out and a real solution such as competion across state lines would begin. Oh, if government would only get out of the way and remove half of the un-necessary regulations, then health care cost would drop to 25% of what it is. I know. I'm just wishing for common sense. Lol.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 319
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/7/2012 9:14:56 AM
click4love and other Canadians...Do not get too smug. Bad ideas from south of the border are embraced by your own right wing whackos. Fear of women and assaulting your rights, while not as blatant and aggressive as it is here, is sneaking up on you.
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/murray-dobbin/2010/05/do-harper-conservatives-hate-women
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/769954--canadian-women-s-rights-in-decline-report-says

Meanwhile, on the other side of Gitchigoomie, Scatt Walker, knowing full well he is on his way out, is taking aggressive action to uk fup as much as he can, the rights and gains of women.
http://jezebel.com/5899877/ambitious-governor-manages-to-crap-on-womens-rights-health-care--sex-ed-in-a-single-day

The insurance affront on women's rights is just tactic employed by, and supported by the far right with all sorts of convoluted justifications ranging from "constitutional" contortionism to corporate personhood rights to discriminate at will.

Another front in the he-man women haters club it the attack on the VAWA, a piece of legislation that once enjoyed bi-partisan support. Now, as the theocons turn ever farther to the extremes ends...extreme still being explored for the deepest it can be, they want to repeal it.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/03/20/vawa_and_the_republican_hard_turn_to_the_right_.html

The extremists are also in favor of forcing or allowing doctors to lie to their patients if their moral values dictate they must.
http://www.news-daily.com/news/2012/mar/26/purpose-driven-lies-and-gender-equality-tina-dupuy/

And then there is the "women as livestock" bill.
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/31/at-11th-hour-georgia-passes-women-as-livestock-bill/
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 320
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/7/2012 9:44:40 AM
wow this thread is getting hissy eh?

cross dressers, irony, some good subtle insults and the ever reliable
oncontrolable bladder spouting more hate filled pish at posters (cheers for the favourites
add. or was i meant to throw a hissy fit? lol) and mentioning racism.


over here we get taxed and pay a national insurance contribution weekly
it works to the extent our nhs functions (not always well though) but we
seem to get by.

carry on having your squabble folks (and more subtle insults please)
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 321
The War on Women
Posted: 4/7/2012 5:39:19 PM
STRATDIGGER3, so you think that if gubbamint just "got out of the way" and let the private insurance companies do their thing then costs would drop by 25%, eh? lol.

Try costs going up by 25%.
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 322
The War on Women
Posted: 4/8/2012 2:36:02 PM

The fact is, something has been missing along with women's liberation...........men's liberation! As a matter of fact, in the past 50 years just about everybody got liberated except for one small group.........men.


Your angst will have more validity with me when you state that you would gladly change places with any woman in your same socio-economic sphere.

I fall on my knees every day and rejoice that I had the accidental good fortune to be born a White, American, Male. It's the frickin' Trifecta of our species. Whining about your 'oppression' as a Man is like Bill Gates whining that he doesn't have ANOTHER billion dollars....

Sheesh....
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 323
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The War on Women
Posted: 4/9/2012 4:27:52 AM
i fall on my knees every day as well usually by accident mind you but
i also rejoice that i had the accidental good fortune to be born a White,
Scottish, Male who was not indoctronated to be a hand wringing lieberal
who feels the need to get all aerated and who takes offense for others.

then berates all and sundry for whining whilst whining even more because
ordinary working folk laugh at them, and dont take them seriously.

i think i'll go watch Team America kick the whatsits out of the F.A.G and
i shall no doubt chuckle when thinking pof handwringers
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 324
The War on Women
Posted: 4/9/2012 8:14:44 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Belly laugh
I'm in complete agreement....
Worth the price of admission....
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 325
The War on Women
Posted: 4/9/2012 8:21:57 AM
its funny
has anyone stopped to think, if religious fanatics get away with this
what else are they going to want!
religion and religious views should be separate from the government ,period
and they, religious organizations, should be taxed like any other business


So for the religious only.........
your suggesting taxation without representation?

Keeping in mind that the "religious" comprise an enormous segment of the population your plan is that they'll be allowed to fund programs that are against their conscience but have no say in the administration of the same?

Perhaps we can order them to wear a yellow star to denote their second class citizenship too....
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