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 bwena
Joined: 2/5/2012
Msg: 451
The War on American Women Page 19 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Amen to that Casper66!! People always pass judgement but seldom participate in the solution.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 452
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History
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 4:21:56 AM
back in grad school, when abortions were not legal in nyc, there was an underground to take women to pa to a safe dr. for an abortion. it was silently backed by health care providers. students did the volunteer driving for our health care clinic which set it up. back then, marriage was still in place unlike today. even in catholic hospitals i have consulted with some 15 years after grad school, if a teen came in pregnant, she was sent to city hospital if she wanted an abortion. many of the nuns were not that stupid. it depended upon the order. they did try to teach abstinence and self esteem, but it only worked where there was strict parental supervision and that was a small population.

since i'm now in CA, not sure how this is being handled in more conservative states. here people know where to go and there is still financial assistance to get an abortion, as well as financial assistance to keep one's baby. the latter is dwindling long term with the budget cuts and unemployment however.

although i believe in abortion selectively, and prioritize the kids in foster care-- on the other hand, i am not happy about the many 4 month abortions that are taking place and kids attitudes not to practice safe sex because they can just get an abortion. i know one kid who has had three. now she has two children, is incollege, works and has a good relationship. birth control made her nuts, so with the second delivery she put in an iud. her relationship is monogamous. her 4 month abortion started haunting her once she did ultrasound on her first baby. she was not raped, as that is another issue. she just disregarded safe sex while in her teens with the same man she lives with today. he, in turn, refused to get his tubes tied.

while everyone is arguing about this policy, there needs to be much more education and prevention. most kids getting pregnant here have nothing else to do and the economy makes it worse. plus they lack parental security or have had terrible upbringings and having babies and/or abortions seems to be a dysfunctional solution.

i'm a democrat but i have several republican women friends who are not liking this aspect of their party's platform which they feel is influenced by the right wing fringe component. i don't believe many would get an abortion themselves, but believe in the right to choose. i'm happy they are sticking with their party, so hopefully they can change it. as a kid in her 20's, i was a late bloomer and always practiced safe sex except for one time. i thought i was pregnant and grappled with this issue. i figured if it was one month, i could abort but not much more into it. fortunately it was a false alarm. it is a difficult decision. so, i got married. two husbands and now all i have to worry about is getting old:)

my investment of time now is in fost/adoption and child advocacy. however, i am grateful to the men here and the women who are monitoring this. certainly it will affect the vote. however, now people have to grapple with all the issues. eg. how will hispanics balance outlook on immigration versus gay marriage and abortion as many do not believe in either of the latter if catholic. some who voted for obama, now will not.

very complicated. interesting to see what are the priorities in the elections, from local to national.

ps there is also a war on dads. if not married, many can not get rights to their genetic offspring.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 453
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 5:52:28 AM

After all, greedy corporations only think about the bottom line, which is profit, so why on earth is there not a female majority in all occupations ?

Because the idea of it is so beyond stupid it can not be explained.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 454
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 6:01:18 AM
Currently, 12 FORTUNE 500 companies are run by women, down from 15 last year, as three left their posts and were succeeded by men. Beth E. Mooney of KeyCorp, joins this year, though, as the first ever woman chief of a top 20 U.S. bank
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/womenceos/


It must be that women are all competing fo jobs as cashiers at WuMu..because they certianly aren't being hired to run corporate america
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 455
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 6:01:53 AM
Balsamica,


I don't know if there is any data to support that, so you might want to look into it.

That women's wages are, overall, less than men's......... probably. Some women are at home, supported by spouses. Some work part-time, tending to children. Some work seasonally, some not in early life but later in middle age when grown. Etc.

If you compare single women, married women without children in full time careers, etc. you might find that wages are pretty comparable between men and women.


According to the Institute for Women's Policy Research there is data showing that women are still being paid less.

On 100th Anniversary of International Women’s Day, 45 More Years Needed to Close Gender Wage Gap in the U.S.
New research from the Institute for Women’s Policy Research (IWPR) shows that it will take until 2056 for women and men’s earnings to reach pay parity—if the wage gap continues to close at the same pace it has for the last fifty years.
On 100th Anniversary of International Women’s Day, 45 More Years Needed to Close Gender Wage Gap in the U.S.

Gender wage gap to persist until 2056 at current rate of progress.

Mar 08, 2011

Washington, D.C.—New research from the Institute for Women’s Policy Research (IWPR) shows that it will take until 2056 for women and men’s earnings to reach pay parity—if the wage gap continues to close at the same pace it has for the last fifty years. On March 8, 2011, the hundredth anniversary of International Women’s Day, women will have made great gains in terms of education and employment, but the gender wage gap continues to reflect women’s lower earnings compared with men.

“The labor market has changed dramatically during the last few decades,” said Heidi Hartmann, President of IWPR. “Women’s labor force participation has shot up and women are receiving college degrees and graduate degrees at faster rates than men, yet the gender wage gap is improving very slowly.”

Overall, the ratio of women’s to men's annual median earnings remained flat at 77 percent in both 2008 and 2009, after achieving an all-time peak of 78 percent in 2007. In 1961, on the fiftieth anniversary of International Women’s Day, the gender wage gap was 59 percent, with dramatic improvements during the 1980s, from 60 percent in 1980 to 69 percent by 1989. But improvement since then has been slow.

“On March 8, we are celebrating the one-hundredth anniversary of International Women’s Day, but looking at the persistent gender wage gap makes the occasion sobering,” said Ariane Hegewisch, Study Director with IWPR.

“Women's lower earnings relative to men mean that their families have lower incomes than if there were no wage gap,” said Jeffrey Hayes, Ph.D., Senior Research Associate at IWPR. “Women have less money to save for the future, and their Social Security will reflect their lower earnings after they retire."

Hayes projected the future change in the wage ratio forward, based on the past 50 years of data on women’s and men’s median annual earnings for full-time, year-round work, available from the U.S. Census Bureau.
http://www.iwpr.org/press-room/press-releases/on-100th-anniversary-of-international-women2019s-day-45-more-years-needed-to-close-gender-wage-gap-in-the-u.s


Now how are women suppose to raise all these children when they clearly are STILL not being paid as well as men for comparable jobs?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 456
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 6:06:11 AM
^^^^Oh come on....all those reports that point out the wage disparity all focus on the fact that women are lazy...they won't work overtime...they won't work in those isolated tough places...apparently, it is a well known non-fact that women are just plain lazy and shouldn't make the same wages as men.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 457
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 6:19:39 AM

^^^^Oh come on....all those reports that point out the wage disparity all focus on the fact that women are lazy...they won't work overtime...they won't work in those isolated tough places...apparently, it is a well known non-fact that women are just plain lazy and shouldn't make the same wages as men.


Those reports are full of it. Just my two daughters alone put many men to shame as far as work goes. They both show extremely high dedication, attention to detail, and put forth 150 percent effort. The youngest one has people at the very top running to her for help and yet she had to fight tooth and nail to get this last promotion. Cut throat company she works for, someone decided to set her up the last go around but she showed them this time. She got the promotion yet the pay still isn't as good as it should be for what they have her doing.

When I worked they almost couldn't get me to go to lunch or home at night. I really enjoyed working.

I think those excuses are ridiculous.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 458
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 7:30:28 AM
twilightslove,

Thanks for doing a little research, but all that article does is state there is a wage gap, which we know.

If you work from the feminist-lesbian model that a woman should be able to be inseminated and raise her own children without a man or marriage to a man in any way, shape or form, it may indeed be a concern. Most women, however, marry before they have children and that is the predominant model in this society, though a losing one, where men's incomes are used to support women and children while women spend time rearing children.

My father worked two jobs for a long time to support our family, my mother worked none. Now you can say he was quite a bit higher in the income range and she was way down there, but guess who the paycheck went to, who budgeted and spent it? Not him. He got to make it, she got to spend it. He got an allowance. The rest of it went to family needs.

American women are the healthiest, richest, longest living and most pampered princesses on this entire earth, there is no way I am going to feel sorry for them.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 459
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 7:49:00 AM
Your father worked two jobs while mine worked one and then opened up his own company. He was a good provider indeed. Not as many men out there today who feel the need to be good providers as there used to be so we have a lot of women having to pick up the slack for their lack of providing. Then we have the high divorce rate probably due to financial problems to begin with and so you have women working without a partner to help.

I fail to see how that makes a woman a feminist or a lesbian. It just makes them survivors. If they so choose to tell their daughters to be prepared and get ahead so that their families will survive I do not see the problem with that at all.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 460
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 8:25:06 AM
either women are really stupid or somebody is lying.... I looked over the alleged study.. there is nothing in it that says women are paid less than men for the exact same job... do you really believe that a company can pay a woman less than a man for exactly the same job? there are too many factors that work accounted for... I use to have my own business if I had paid women less than men for the same exact job no 1 would have tolerated that...
 eeeeeezy
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 461
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 8:26:17 AM
Your father worked two jobs while mine worked one and then opened up his own company. He was a good provider indeed. Not as many men out there today who feel the need to be good providers as there used to be so we have a lot of women having to pick up the slack for their lack of providing. Then we have the high divorce rate probably due to financial problems to begin with and so you have women working without a partner to help.


So feminism made war on traditional social/romantic duties and obligations, weakening them in the name of freedom, fairness, etc.

And now we notice men taking those duties and obligations less seriously on their end.

It's almost like the two are . . . connected somehow. Strange.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 462
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 8:39:35 AM

either women are really stupid or somebody is lying.... I looked over the alleged study.. there is nothing in it that says women are paid less than men for the exact same job...

Well maybe that is because the person lying is you, but in case you need more proof please feel free to look over this article that uses one of Isabel Fernandez studies to look at this issue:

Wage differences between men and women - sexist or functional?
2/28/2011 @ 10:45AM
Freek Vermeulen,

...Thus, Isabel talked a staffing firm – specialized in high skilled IT related contractors – into providing her with their internal databases: resumes, client information, demographic data, project characteristics, prices, and so on. Subsequently she compiled an extensive and detailed database on 250 of its temporary employees who, over a period of several years, jointly were involved in 1462 projects across 462 different companies. She measured their hourly pay rate and statistically corrected the differences between them for things such as years of education, specialist training, experience, project characteristics, and so on. Until there was only one variable left to examine: gender.

And she found that, even in temporary jobs, women get paid substantially less than men, for the same type of work. Women earned an average of $25.08 per hour while men, for the exact same job with the same qualifications, would earn an average of $29.66. And we can’t blame that on firm specific skills.

Hence, “firm specific skills” are a nice story – but not much more than that. They belong to the greater works of fiction. Because, as Isabel showed, they do not explain the difference between male and female wages. And that is rather unfortunate, because it leaves us with the nasty but inevitable conclusion that the world of business does on average still discriminate against female employees. And surely we cannot be cheerful about that.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/freekvermeulen/2011/02/28/wage-differences-between-men-and-women-sexist-or-functional/
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 463
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 10:55:42 AM

do you really believe that a company can pay a woman less than a man for exactly the same job?


Sure I do. I prepared the payroll. I realize that this is anecdotal. But that doesn't change the fact that I have seen first hand evidence of this very thing at multiple companies.

I have been hired more than once at considerably less pay than the man I was replacing. (For the exact same job responsibilities.)
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 464
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 11:05:14 AM

Because the idea of it is so beyond stupid it can not be explained.


English translation: "I have no explanation for it."
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 465
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 11:08:53 AM
trinity,

When you interviewed for the job, the pay I'm sure was discussed. Did you not agree to the wages they were hiring you for. As far as applications where they ask for past pay history, tell them more as its illegal for them to ask or another company to release your pay records.

During this recession I did my interview in 30 years for a part time job. They offered me less, I asked for 15% more, and they didn't blink once. Same holds true for you? Did you ever think that they were paid more because they wouldn't accept less !
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 466
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 11:09:12 AM
No you are just not getting the fascist POV...women are just plain lazy (from one of their sources):



On a radio talk show, Nemko clearly and forcefully debunked that ultimate myth - that women make less than men - by explaining why, when you compare apples to apples, it simply isn't true. Even the White House report: Women in America: Indicators of Social and Economic Well-Being explains why. Simply put, men choose higher-paying jobs.

Here are 8 reasons why the widely accepted and reported concept that women are paid less than men is a myth.

Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, so they naturally pay more. Top 10 most dangerous jobs (from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics): Fishers, loggers, aircraft pilots, farmers and ranchers, roofers, iron and steel workers, refuse and recyclable material collectors, industrial machinery installation and repair, truck drivers, construction laborers. They're all male-dominated jobs.

Men are far more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice). According to the White House report, "In 2009, only 7 percent of female professionals were employed in the relatively high paying computer and engineering fields, compared with 38 percent of male professionals." Professional women, on the other hand, are far more prevalent "in the relatively low-paying education and health care occupations."

Men are far more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated, and undesirable locations that pay more.

Men work longer hours than women do. The average fulltime working man works 6 hours per week or 15 percent longer than the average fulltime working woman.

Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on weekends and evenings and therefore pay more.

Even within the same career category, men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher-paid areas of specialization. For example, within the medical profession, men gravitate to relatively high-stress and high-paying areas of specialization, like surgery, while women are more likely to pursue relatively lower-paid areas of specialization like pediatrician or dentist.

Despite all of the above, unmarried women who've never had a child actually earn more than unmarried men, according to Nemko and data compiled from the Census Bureau.

Women business owners make less than half of what male business owners make, which, since they have no boss, means it's independent of discrimination. The reason for the disparity, according to a Rochester Institute of Technology study, is that money is the primary motivator for 76% of men versus only 29% of women. Women place a higher premium on shorter work weeks, proximity to home, fulfillment, autonomy, and safety, according to Nemko

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28246928/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 467
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 1:26:45 PM


She measured their hourly pay rate and statistically corrected the differences between them for things such as years of education, specialist training, experience, project characteristics, and so on. Until there was only one variable left to examine: gender.


Thats just crap. What really matters is getting the task done, especially in IT. All those papers are just paper, and it you took away the grades, or just showed up for the certificate its just paper on the wall. When you present those papers its assumed you have the basic knowledge.

Let me say if a women is out performing a mans counter part you can bet I wouldn't let her leave without offering her more. On the other hand if she is working away for a set wage and had no gripes, I wouldn't be offering her raises just because I'm a nice guy. If things got ruff, as in layoffs, and provided she has been reliable you could bet a man would be layoff 1st.

With me those pieces of paper don't mean much, its what you learned and retained and can apply it to the task at hand.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 468
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The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/10/2012 1:59:24 PM
I have a problem with studies that show that women and men are not paid the same wages too
I know a few decades ago this was the case, but in my lifetime, honestly i have never seen it.....
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 469
The War on American Women (feel better vlad?)
Posted: 5/11/2012 2:51:14 PM
Thats just crap. What really matters is getting the task done, especially in IT. All those papers are just paper, and it you took away the grades, or just showed up for the certificate its just paper on the wall. When you present those papers its assumed you have the basic knowledge.

No what really matters is the topic at hand with is inequality with regards to genders and pay scale.

That study leveled the playing field on all front them looked at pay scale and was able to concluded that women in the same field as men where earning less money.

You can call it what ever you want but unless you can show a flaw in the methodology of the study then you are factually incorrect in saying that women get paid the same as their male counterparts.




 Mishelmalkinpalin
Joined: 5/8/2012
Msg: 470
The War on Women
Posted: 5/11/2012 7:42:27 PM
There is no war on women. It's a loony manufactured term to try to mobilize the crazy liberals,
to try to get them foaming at the mouth, which isn't hard to do in any case. Choose a term, any term will do,
just make something up out of thin air, they will jump all over it. That's how they play politics.
Forget the facts, coin a goofy term, add some emotionalism, those are the liberal strategies in a nutshell.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 471
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 5/12/2012 3:08:23 AM
Jon Stewart did an excellent piece highlighting the full denial of the Fox Noise sheeps over the war against womens' rights, vs. Fox Noises multiple war fronts including Christmas, potatoes, salt, and chocolate milk.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-gleefully-bashes-fox-news-for-ignoring-war-on-women-while-pushing-war-on-christmas/

Unlike the phoney Phox "wars", the assaults on women's rights is quite real, has real consequences, and is endangering the health and well being of not only women, but the sanity of the culture at large. Vagina Mangers should be big this coming Christmas. That and vibrator sales are soaring.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 472
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 5/12/2012 3:54:49 AM
so if you own a business its worth employing women only because
you do not have to pay the same rate is that correct?

if that IS correct then why employ men at all?

as far as i know over here lassies in the building game get paid the
same rate so that puts the lesser wage argument out. its a nationally
agreed rate for workers in the joint working agreement rules

does a female waitress earn less than a male waiter over the pond then?

do cab drivers have different rates of pay? do female politicians earn less than
their male counterparts?

do women in public sector jobs earn less for doing the same job as men do?

now the private sector would be different as you get an interview and you get told the pay
i would think. if thats the case women could just say bollocks stick the job up your jeer dafty
could they not?

funnily enough when our wages got driven down to the level of immigrant workers no
handwringers batted an eyelid. course they had nice cushy guarenteed income jobs in the public sector

why not drive mens wages down then? get less tax. sack more public sector workers (course it wont
be the non jobs that go like co ordinators etc)

p.s notice none of the handwringers get upset over working class americans
having THEIR wages driven down by illegal immigrants.

hypocrisy? never not from the intolerant liberal nazi windbags
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 473
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 5/22/2012 1:07:49 PM
Women don't usually know that they are being paid less. Unless you work with payroll or are privy to that type of confidential information, you would not be aware that you are being paid less than your colleague. Since pay raises are linked to performance and a myriad of other things, it's easy to obfusticate the propensity to compensate your male executives at a higher rate. Quite simply, males have traditionally been paid more because they were the primary "bread-winners". Even though that dynamic has changed greatly over the years, corporate America is still catching up. And although it has gotten much better over the past 20 years, there are still many companies that think that way.

http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/the-daily-dose-blog-post?post=f50a1dcd-c55f-4b05-b51e-f9336e2f9d10


The kicker is that men tend to earn more than women even in these female-dominated fields.


The pay discrepancies between men and women don't exist in all fields. I would assume that unions protect all worker's wages. The issue is much more prevalent in office and corporate positions.

Just because you haven't seen it or experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 474
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:20:36 AM
Women get equal pay, it is 2012, they have for years
stats may show that women earn less, but that's because a lot of them chose not to be the main breadwinner
in is their choice!
union, or corporate, women get equal pay, if anyone says they 'experienced this' its because she was not doing as good of a job
the real 'war on women' is no longer a male female issue, but a female, female issue
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 475
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History
The War on Women
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:43:58 AM
Like I mentioned in another thread, even the same job doesn't mean they should get the same pay.
- Do you have the same responsibilities?
- Is your performance comparable?
- How many hours do you work?
- What kind of extra curricular projects have you taken on?
- How many "sick" days have you taken?
- Have you actually tried to negotiate a raise, or are you just hoping you get noticed?
- How long have you been working there?


I surely don't expect someone who just graduated from college and has been working at a job for a month to be getting paid the same as someone who has been at that job for 3 years. But it that still falls under "getting paid less for the same job."
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