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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > New ID voter law? [CLOSED]      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 226
New ID voter law?Page 10 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)

Well then...neither is the penalty under PPACA a tax...welcome to governance.
Difference is you can choose not to vote can't choose not to have Health Insurance...

There is no LOGICAL reason for anyone to argue against Voter ID requirements...so and so knows someone who is old who doesn't drive etc....how does so and so's someone get to the polling station? most states that have voter ID laws have made allowances for those who can not afford picture ID, they will be provided one free..

Liberals need to be HONEST,,,seriously isn't the reason you are really against voter ID laws is that you are afraid that Democrats may somehow lose some votes because of ID laws..

IF they are provided for free the only argument you can make is that they cant prove who they are because they are so old that they can't find their original records..what percentage of people who actually vote would really be effected?

I am sure if there are people that actually fall into that category the States would be required to make allowances for theme to be able to vote given that Voting is a Right...

Nice try with the Spin though...
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 227
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 11:38:14 AM
^^^^^^
"the dead." ?
Oh yeah , I always loved their songs. We used to drink cheap wine(remember Spanada?) and sing along with Jerry Garcia. Those guys would play for hours.
 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 228
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 12:00:05 PM
From Post above:

"My mother doesn't drive. She doesn't have a driver's license or a photo ID. She uses her debit card for simple transactions. Should she be made to jump through hoops and buy a photo ID to vote?
It is certainly a poll tax."

YES SHE SHOULD ! She is NOT special.

Again, I call Bullsh1t, I am most sure she had to have an ID to open a bank account. If she can get around by using her Debit Card, then she CAN FET AROUND, which means she can get around enought to get an ID Card.

I believe, the people who won't or are to lazy to get an ID Card, are most likely to not, or be to lazy to vote.
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 229
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 12:26:34 PM
So much talk about paying for the ID... How much can it cost? Are there that many people who can't afford it?

It's just a simple logic that everyone should have some kind of ID...
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 230
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 1:05:01 PM
There is no LOGICAL reason for anyone to argue against Voter ID requirements...
Well other than the fact the voter fraud done by people in person is pretty much non-existent and requiring people to use photo I.D. will do nothing to change that, but do not let facts get in the way of your derp. Havering people show a photo ID will not change anything, other than there will be fewer people voting in the election as the vast majority of voter fraud in the US is down via absentee ballots like this:


Galvin Calls Voter Fraud Allegations 'Pretty Extreme'
By Sarah Birnbaum

...Galvin said an employee in the town clerk’s office allegedly changed the party affiliation of hundreds of registered voters from Democrat to Republican without their knowledge, and then cast absentee ballots on their behalf.

“There was effort here to steal voters' identities by enrolling them in different political parties and then applying for absentee ballots for them. This is like identity theft in a financial context. This is just as bad if not worse because people are trying to steal an election. The objective here was to cast fraudulent ballots. That’s pretty extreme,” he said...

read more at: http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/galvin-calls-voter-fraud-allegations-pretty-extreme
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 231
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 1:56:22 PM
i quite agree

which means i concurr (i think)

why should you shermans want voter id?

for what reason? us brits and those crazy canucks do not
see any need for it.

so you naughty shermans stop it NOW.

nowt worse than upset brits and canucks who are not taken serial
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 232
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/20/2012 2:49:44 PM

My mother doesn't drive. She doesn't have a driver's license or a photo ID


Do you drive?

Is there some reason that you cannot assist her?
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 233
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 8:38:21 AM

In Canada, we have photo health care cards, and they are free.Well, you have to pay the 6$ for the photo, but considering that all your medical bills are paid, I've never heard any complaints. Plus, photo ID isn't mandatory to vote, it's just easy, as most people have their health cards.


not all of Canada, my BC care card doesn't have pic id, and to vote in BC you do need to identify yourself, one piece of
photo id such as a driver's licence or two pieces without picture . .
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 234
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 11:15:43 AM
All of the oppostion to voter ID laws are based on untrue statements and misrepresented facts

1 VoterID is racist
rhetorical device used to demean the character of opponents. It is not racist to ask to provide identity just as it is not racist to prove identity to acquire a drivers license, or a home loan.

2 Disfranchisement of voters
If there are a class of voters without identification then this class of voters is also outside the normative population and voting is for those that participate in society. There is no disfranchisement. There is nothing preventing them from completing the process of getting an ID.

3 Unfair to the poor
VoterID does not take a stand on the fairness nor unfairness of those that are economically challenged. It is to validate eligibility to vote. The minimum expectation is a normal participation level in society. That is available to all who wish to participate but it is not a legal obligation to economically support everyone's participation in society. We are just not designed that way. Many many means exist for these basic requirements many include publicly funded programs.

4 Claims that those disenfranchised are all on the side of democrats
Totally false. They have not voted yet so how can anyone say how they all vote? Also attempts to make the claim that only good people vote democrat and is kind of twisted in logic and morally bankrupt position.

5 Claims of no voter fraud so there is no valid reason for the procedures.
At least this one is a valid point. However, it discounts the amount of contested elections every election cycle. Claims of voter fraud are rampant on both sides and have been for decades. This will help alleviate the social stress and financial burdens placed on districts caught up in these arguments. It will not eliminate but will reduce the time and cost to resolution.

Arguments against: unsupported and false claims of social injustice.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 235
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 11:42:46 AM

2 Disfranchisement of voters
If there are a class of voters without identification then this class of voters is also outside the normative population and voting is for those that participate in society. There is no disfranchisement. There is nothing preventing them from completing the process of getting an ID

Well other than when politicians close up offices that can provide photo id's in poor areas of town and make it even harder to obtain one.

After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Closes 10 DMV Offices
By Ian Millhiser on Jul 25, 2011 at 9:50 am
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/277592/walker-closes-dmvs/

Step 1: Suppress the vote by creating a new Voter ID Laws.
Step 2: Shut down DMV offices in Democratic districts so that Democrats are less likely to obtain the Voter ID required for voting.
Step 3: profit.




3 Unfair to the poor
VoterID does not take a stand on the fairness nor unfairness of those that are economically challenged. It is to validate eligibility to vote. The minimum expectation is a normal participation level in society. That is available to all who wish to participate but it is not a legal obligation to economically support everyone's participation in society. We are just not designed that way. Many many means exist for these basic requirements many include publicly funded programs.

Yeah those lazy poor people should just be less poor and then they would not have a problem as clearly it is their own fault they are poor.




5 Claims of no voter fraud so there is no valid reason for the procedures.
At least this one is a valid point. However, it discounts the amount of contested elections every election cycle. Claims of voter fraud are rampant on both sides and have been for decades. This will help alleviate the social stress and financial burdens placed on districts caught up in these arguments. It will not eliminate but will reduce the time and cost to resolution.

Context is key here, as yes there are many reports of voter fraud but very few would be solved with vote id and are mostly around absentee ballots, which is why the legislation is nothing but a hoax to filter out voters.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 236
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 11:57:36 AM
Another Tactic is associate everything to theircause of the moment regardless of reality.


Well other than when politicians close up offices that can provide photo id's in poor areas of town and make it even harder to obtain one.

After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Closes 10 DMV Offices
By Ian Millhiser on Jul 25, 2011 at 9:50 am
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/277592/walker-closes-dmvs/


State budget closed the DMV not VoterID. Unrelated realities.



Yeah those lazy poor people should just be less poor and then they would not have a problem as clearly it is their own fault they are poor.

Unrelated to VoterID. This is socioeconomic equality and not related to VoterID. It is also another slander characterization that only liberals care more about people. It is not true.


Context is key here, as yes there are many reports of voter fraud but very few would be solved with vote id and are mostly around absentee ballots, which is why the legislation is nothing but a hoax to filter out voters.

And this is a point at which issues can be raised and in fact raised by reasonable people for a legitimate position to take. Everything else is a lie. Now that an actual real position is found then maybe that could be given to people to make reasoned choice and not based on BS. Context matters. I would take the position that an orderly process for voting increases social stability and also stabilizes the social legitimacy of the democratic process as well as the results of the election.

Also, I would hold this position over the socio-economic and claims of inequality as being of a higher and greater benefit to society.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 237
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 12:47:57 PM

Again, these laws are not making it illegal to vote, just throwing up roadblocks to make things more difficult for traditional Democratic voters. By doing this Republicans hope to stop enough Democratic voters in enough swing states to make a differance


It is putting a simple rule and procedure around it. The effect is stabilizing and not destabilizing as leftists want. Sorry.

As clearly noted ... it does not make it illegal to vote. It is a process not a roadblock. This may even help to alleviate problems of voter aggitation through media and other rallying events meant to disrupt and not maintain peace. It is clearly a tenant of leftisim to disrupt and cause change for the sake of change without a reasoned debate nor defined outcome meant to beneifit society. It is depenedent on constant struggle to effect change for the sake of change and upheaval.

Why do you think it is students? Yes, students are more liekly to be liberal. As they get older they gain wisdom (Hopefully) and stop thinking that magical things occur through radical change. This is why leftists rely so heavily on the intellectual influencing of students and demoralizing their association to the country and making them feel like bad people if they have values rooted in liberty and our democratic process. Instead it is all about radical change and equality.

Then there is the elderly... how can it be that the elderly are mostly republican but now all of the sudden they are all liberal? They are used as a scapegoat for leftism in the fact that they are a group of people that are impacted by the social economic stability of the country when they are beyond the age of work and due to their numbers and health concerns are not to be discarded as leftists want. What is a leftists Ideal... 'Never trust anyone over 30'.

http://www.people-press.org/2011/11/03/the-generation-gap-and-the-2012-election-3/


In the last four national elections, generational differences have mattered more than they have in decades. According to the exit polls, younger people have voted substantially more Democratic than other age groups in each election since 2004, while older voters have cast more ballots for Republican candidates in each election since 2006.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 238
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:23:06 PM

Simple for you. You have ID. Not so simple for the working poor and students who do not own cars and more than likely don't have a drivers license. Now they have to hop on a bus and get to another part of town , more than likely during working hours, to fork over much needed cash, cash that can put food on the table, to purchse an ID. All this to excercise their right to vote in an election.


This is totally made up and only true for a very very very small group. Sorry but this same group isn't driving anywhere nor hopping on many buses to get anywhere... Nor do they likely have much of a job since that requires ID as well. The idea that totally undocumented people flood the country to put food on their table is ... absurd. Please prove your claim.


Whether students or the elderly are more liberal is not the point. Governments should be making it easier to vote. Have extended hours and more advanced polls. The goal should be to have 100% participation, not to try and suppress the poor and disadvantaged.

It was the point when the claim is that republicans are blocking the democrat liberal votes. So, if you dismiss that argument as invalid as I did then we both agree. The next point would be your statement that the goal is 100% participation. Totally false and unrealistic. There is no such goal. That goal has no social value.

The real goal for democracy is for those that wish to participate for them to have their opportunity to participate. There is not one legitimate argument that the goal to be 100% participation. It is participation in the democratic process that helps shape the governance of the county. It should require more thought then 100% participation. It should require at minimum the votes of people that wish to participate. For those that wish to participate please do. To have your voice heard you must participate. So... go ahead.

Is there a problem with having those who wish to participate actually participate rather then a mythical unknowable group that is only accounted for through random anecdotes or friend of friend stories?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 239
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:34:47 PM
It is clearly a tenant of leftisim to disrupt and cause change for the sake of change without a reasoned debate nor defined outcome meant to beneifit society


It is funny that you say that because it is clearly voter ID laws that are changing the voter identification process...in other words it's voter ID that is the change...and the sake of this change is to remove domocrat votes from the election process...and the "reasoned" debate is that voter ID will remove the, as shown and proven before, non-existant voter fraud.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 240
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:47:21 PM

Is there a problem with having those who wish to participate actually participate rather then a mythical unknowable group that is only accounted for through random anecdotes or friend of friend stories?

So lets say that no one will be affected (despite lots of evidence to the contrary, see below), how will a voter id law improve the system?

Taking into account the cost and the number of times that a voter id law would have stopped voter fraud. Seeing as voter fraud that has occurred that could be stopped with photo id is pretty much non-existent.

Do you really think it is economically wise to spend a bunch of money that essentially does nothing?

Because if not, you seem to be for the government wasting a bunch of money on nothing.



An Unnecessary, Expensive, and Intrusive Voter Restriction in a Time of Fiscal Crisis

Across the country, Republican governors and legislators are
pushing unnecessary and suppressive photo identification laws that would
require all voters to produce a specific current government-issued
photo ID before casting a ballot. The suppressive effects of these bills are well-documented: 11
percent of Americans—approximately 23 million citizens of voting
age—lack proper photo ID and, as a result, could be turned away from the
polls on Election Day. Those without photo ID are disproportionately
low-income, disabled, minority, young, and older voters. Numerous
non-partisan organizations have debunked claims of widespread voter
fraud, the purported basis for these laws

The Voting Rights Institute has studied the impact of photo ID laws
using the actual costs incurred in Indiana and Georgia—the two states
that have implemented photo ID laws—and considered the cost estimates
from 17 states where photo ID laws were introduced this year.
In 2011, Republicans have advanced photo ID legislation in at least
35 states. The report concluded that if these 35 states enact a photo ID
law, they collectively will spend at least $276 million, and possibly
as much as $828 million, in the first four years alone.
At a time when
states are experiencing huge budget shortfalls, it would be an enormous
waste to spend hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to
disenfranchise voters.

Report: http://assets.democrats.org/pdfs/photoid/Dems-report-real_cost_of_voting_ID.pdf

Link to artical: http://www.democrats.org/the-real-cost-of-photo-id-laws
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 241
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:57:48 PM
I just had to prove who I was,
and where I lived...to get a voter's registration card.
Even though I have lived here 4 years.

and I'm still not sure I'm registered.
Will have to bother folks in the courthouse to check.
The new law in Texas is very confusing.
as intended.

Folks in houses.....don't have to prove who they are.
People in apartments do.
Cus peeps in houses are more likely to be Republican.
Folks in apartments.....are more questionable on that.

It is always worrisome when confusion is targeted
at certain sectors of society
based on residence.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 242
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 4:51:16 PM

So lets say that no one will be affected (despite lots of evidence to the contrary, see below), how will a voter id law improve the system?

False claim again. Someone will be affected. I'm saying its so minority as to not have an impact and for those impacted they have means of addressing.


Do you really think it is economically wise to spend a bunch of money that essentially does nothing?

Another false claim.
I actually said it may save money, time, frustration with a social impact of showing a more thoughtfully legitamiate vote process.

As for the costs. ???
I look for language in the report to show its bias

– a dollar spent on photo id necessarily means one
less for education and public safety.

So... a verified voting is now going to ruin kids and increase crime. Lies.


republicans must decide whether they will enact an unnecessary
regulation that will disproportionately burden the elderly, Americans with disabilities, citizens
with limited means, and communities of color or whether they will fund public schools and police
departments.

Republicans hate grandmothers,kids, and police. Lies


Our analysis demonstrates that nearly all state estimates significantly undervalue the true cost of
implementing photo ID requirements

So, us good leftists have decided that everyone is doing it wrong and are not seeing the 'true' costs.

To support their findings they literally blame budget shortfalls on this single issue

figure 1 denotes budget shortfalls in 35 states where photo id legislation was proposed in 2011, as well
as the estimated cost of implementation over the first four fiscal years
Totally dishonest.

Nothing was actually 'found' in this finding and nothing to suggest the ongoing costs. It's all just numbers with no substance.

In this report, we analyze the comprehensive cost of photo identification legislation, including the
immediate costs of the legislation as well as the implementation necessary to satisfy constitutional
scrutiny. We also note the estimated costs in all 35 states considering photo ID mandates, as well as those
states’ projected budget shortfalls for Fiscal Year 2012


Finding the rates of contested elections and length of time is not so easy. You could have a great argument against that with me since it is not well tracked on costs. I checked for Indiana though and haven't found a contested election since they implemented in 2009 I think.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3330015?uid=3739560&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101161051227

It is the nature of politicians to pick at scabs and inject doubt, fear and frustration against their opponents. Who doesn't know this? This removes something for them to pick at. I am sorry though... It is counter to the all powerful socialist government you are so in favor of. Okay... I'm not sorry.
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 243
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/21/2012 5:38:34 PM
All this talk about the cost of the ID is just ridiculous:

$26 application fee for most applicants.
Free, for those 62 years of age or older.
Free, for those who must give up a driver license due to a medical condition.
A $7 reduced-fee ID card is available for low-income residents.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/id-cards.php
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 244
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 4:42:26 AM
Another false claim.
I actually said it may save money, time, frustration with a social impact of showing a more thoughtfully legitamiate vote process.

You said it would save money, but you failed to do anything other than provide an opinion.

Any change in policy costs money to implement and enforce.

So unless you can show with data how this will not cost money and actually save money, you are the making the false claim.


How will this save money, what costs will no longer be incurred?





All this talk about the cost of the ID is just ridiculous:

It sure is, as it shows people lack of knowledge and understanding of what it is like to be poor and live completely from paycheck to paycheck with no extra funds.

 SugahPunkin
Joined: 5/28/2010
Msg: 245
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 8:07:41 AM
Didnt read the whole thread, sorry..
But I just voted a few days ago here in Florida for local elections etc.. and I was stopped at the door and handed my NEW registration card with my driver's liscense to the man at the door who then permitted entrance where I showed them again to a lady who took them then asked me about the street I lived on and I had to sign in so they could screen my signature on a computer to see if it matched.

I had no problems at all doing all of it. It took seconds and then I voted.

The system worked fine.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 246
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 8:40:35 AM
You said it would save money, but you failed to do anything other than provide an opinion


Hahahaha... really... that is how you are going to do that. I suppose you are going to claim that you didn't read this line:

Finding the rates of contested elections and length of time is not so easy. You could have a great argument against that with me since it is not well tracked on costs.


I gave you that argument because I was honest about it. So, my argument required another foundation. That is the social stability and trust in the election / voting process. It increases it.

Evidence all over this thread of people being required to perform this simple task already and it not being a burden at all. People voting are the ones that the burden needs to be watched. People not voting are not voting. Encouraging people to vote is okay. Expecting 100% participation and rousing their emotions is purely politically motivated and not healthy for the stability of society.

If you want to argue that there should be new voting legislation to have compulsory voting where people are fined for not voting then that is a separate topic. Australia has that although they tend to not prosecute... You going to call for the prosecution of the poor and old because they can't get to the booth that night?

Compulsory elections would achieve your goals faster wouldn't it?

It sure is, as it shows people lack of knowledge and understanding of what it is like to be poor and live completely from paycheck to paycheck with no extra funds.

Every one of your arguments is based on economic inequality and racial and age discrimination. Not once is there any actual evidence presented of a systemic class suppression nor of racial or age suppression. That is all just devices used for social upheaval for specific ideological ends. You can keep them.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 247
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 9:08:02 AM
I gave you that argument because I was honest about it. So, my argument required another foundation. That is the social stability and trust in the election / voting process. It increases it.

You are not being honest in the fact it will cost money to impliment the new vote id laws and we are talking about real dollars here not pretend dollars as you have alluded to with idea like social stability and trust in the election.

So you are advocating for increasing goveremnt spending on something that has been proven (by the GOP) to be completely usless and does nothing to combat the issue at hand.

A study released Sunday, conducted by News21 and funded by the Carnegie and Knight Foundations went through "5,000 court documents, official reports, and media reports" involving VOTER FRAUD since 2000. Three substantive findings of the study are:

1) Any kind of election fraud is exceptionally rare. Among 600 MILLION votes cast, 2,068 cases of "election fraud" were alleged: this is a .000003 incidence of alleged election fraud.

2) Voter fraud is even rarer. Only 30.6% of the "election fraud" cases involved "voter fraud". That's 633 cases in 600,000,000. Translation: that's a .000001 incidence of all voter fraud.

3) IN-PERSON voter fraud is, according to the report, "virtually non-existent". With 600 MILLION votes cast, there were 10, yes 10, cases of alleged in-person voter fraud: this is a .000000001 incidence of alleged in-person voter fraud, the purported reason that Voter ID laws have been implemented in so many states.


http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

So you think it is good idea to spend millions of dollars to deal with somthing that has a .000000001 incidence rate?




Evidence all over this thread of people being required to perform this simple task already and it not being a burden at all.

So true, just like I have yet to see some complain about being murdered on a POF thread, so that must mean there is no such thing as murder as it is clearly a ruse made up to think we need police.

Has it crossed your mind that just maybe people post on POF do not represent the people who would be affected, as things like computers and internet access may be considered luxuries?




Everyone of your arguments is based on economic inequality and racial and age discrimination. Not once is there any actual evidence presented of a systemic class suppression nor of racial or age suppression. That is all just devices used for social upheaval for specific ideological ends. You can keep them.

Yes true other than the studies I have posted links to there is zero evidence.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 248
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 9:47:12 AM

So you think it is good idea to spend millions of dollars to deal with somthing that has a .000000001 incidence rate?
Yep...cuz your study was based on reported incidences...if people are not required to show ID what is there to report? They show up to vote say who they are supposed to be and no one has anything to question..Don't you think it is strange that out of 600 million votes only 2000 or so incidences of suspected fraud were reported..that is statistically improbable if there was really an effort to root out fraud..

Why are you really against photo ID being required to vote?lets say anyone who is a citizen is given an allowance for gas money and their ID is free and those who lost personal records are allowed to vote based on other ID verification would you still be against voter ID laws?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 249
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 9:52:12 AM
So you think it is good idea to spend millions of dollars to deal with somthing that has a .000000001 incidence rate?

Yes.
To help alleviate this:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/161265-1
Start listening at14:00 in. There was no method to determine #of votes cast to #of votes counted. A voterID process creates that ability to correlate results.


Following a U.S. Supreme Court decision denying a recount of the vote in the presidential election in Florida, labor leaders and others held a rally to protest the election results. At issue were the disenfranchisement of voters

They called for total distrust in the voting process, democracy, and the legitimacy of the entire government. Just what you want.
"we are going to fix those machines, register those voters, and come two years from now leave no chad behind" hahahah I'm sure she misspoke about counting unregistered voters.



Yes true other than the studies I have posted links to there is zero evidence.

Yes, zero evidence of systemic suppression. Anecdotal evidence. Loose correlations but not one case of nation wide systemic suppression. If your car develops a flat tire twice in a month do you all of sudden determine that your car is a lemon?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 250
New ID voter law?
Posted: 8/22/2012 11:16:43 AM

If your car develops a flat tire twice in a month do you all of sudden determine that your car is a lemon?

No, I would not waste money on new tires when I know the problem is not with the tire but something else.

It would be like asking people to write a check to fund new legislation that did not address the problem and the people who wanted the new legislation would go on and on about all the flat tires, but fail to mention that the solution that they have proposed will not address the reason that is causing the majority of the flat tires and only address tires that go flat ~.000001% of the time while doing nothing about the real reasons for the flat tires.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > New ID voter law? [CLOSED]