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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > New ID voter law? [CLOSED]      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 26
New ID voter law?Page 2 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
Aris,

Did you read my post in full.

I do not agree with this new law in the least, because all participating citizens should be able to vote. However, I can also see where sweetness is coming from.

Let me just say this. I am one of those people living in poverty, but I was still able to get my photo ID. I do not agree that citizens should be shut out of voting just because they lack identification. However, a photo ID is imperative...in different cases.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 27
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 6:14:08 AM

Did you read my post in full.

I did, I was replying to all that felt the law was in some way justified.

As there is a reason the UN has taken notice and that is because there is wrong being done in the USA and at the same time an information war is happening around trying to hide the facts that these laws are about disenfranchising voters and nothing more.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 28
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 8:21:12 AM
I don't know who you are thinking of RIP, in every part of the country that I've seen stories written, BOTH major parties are all about pandering to non-English speaking people.

Notice how the GOP dropped their push for making English the official national language of the country a while back? Want to know why? It's because the statistics came in, and they found out just how large the blocks of non-English speaking voters really are. Hence Bush's "pandering," via his "guest-worker program."

Better give up the idea that you can choose a party, to get away from pandering.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 29
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 9:09:25 AM
as i said in an earlier post why not make voting compulsory? that way
if you choose not to vote then you have no right to complain.

but the two party carve up in the states would need an overhaul methinks

and any ballot paper should carry a box to tick with none of the above so that
people could register a protest and maybe give a kick up the arse to the parties

this from australia
http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm

Is voting compulsory?
Yes, voting is compulsory for every Australian citizen aged 18 years or older. If you do not vote and do not have a valid and sufficient reason for failing to vote, a penalty is imposed. For further information see Compulsory Voting.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 30
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 9:18:08 AM
That probably wouldn't fly here, because lots of folks are going to say that refusing to vote, is a vote in and of itself.

Another point on how the new voter ID laws are obviously aimed , not at confirming right to vote, but on disenfranchising certain segments (i.e. non-Republicans), can be seen by HOW they go about writing the laws. They specify in these laws, what sort of ID is or isn't acceptable. In many states passing these laws, they will accept things like Gun Ownership registrations, but not Student Id's. Clearly, this is designed to discourage a group that the GOP sees as naturally non-Republican (college students) from being able to vote while at school. If they accept local drivers licenses, it would force all students to apply for licenses they don't need, which does cost real money, before they can vote where they are on election day.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 31
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 9:39:54 AM
but i would say every political party does things that will benefit them
and not the opposition.

as far as i can see the republicans play to the religious, working, patriotic, less
government interfering folk who want to be left alone and get on with life folks

the democrats in my opinion anyway want to tax as much as is possible and interfere
in peoples lifes as often as possible.

and for everything republicans do to get the democrat knickers in a twist then the
exact same happens the other way around.

the disenfranchised will always be that because they are now stuck in a rut where
they have to do nothing to help themselves.

as for students, do they not need id to attend university or college?

in the uk there are lots of cases where its better off not working as the state does
everything for you. you actually get punished for working over here.

so if this underclass thats being talked about in the states are so disenfranchised why then are the democrats not putting other peoples money where their mouths are and rectifying the situation? could it be because they would need to tax more to fund the programme thereby losing votes?

its easy for them to open their mouths and let their bellies rumble but another to dip into the peoples pockets to pay for it as eventually folk get pissed off at being taxed even more to fund the feckless



p.s igor

i know what you mean about not voting being a vote thats why a none of the above on a ballot paper would work because you have actually went to the voting booth and rejected out of hand the choices that you have been left with
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 32
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 4:30:07 PM

Sweetness, your posts astound me.
Really? I'm often amazed at her posts, but to be astounded... she'd have to be pretty damned brilliant to the point of being a bloody saint for me to use the word astounded. Guess we each have our own litmus to be met for specific accolades...

I can't imagine anyone being unable to attain some form of photo identification if they really wanted it... as a matter of fact, I would hazzard to guess that if a person called their local politician and explained that they needed a ride to apply for it in person in order to vote for that person in the next election, they'd have a ride pretty damned quick... or whatever else they needed to toss their X on a ballot...
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 33
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 4:55:07 PM

...I can't imagine anyone being unable to attain some form of photo identification if they really wanted it......

Exactly, just like you could not imagine what it would be like to live in a jungle community. Which is because you have no idea what it is like to be in a situation where obtaining a photo id may be very hard or been made pretty much impossible.

As I think you are also missing the point, is along with these new laws there have been changes made in the way people can obtain ID, mainly the closing on DMV locations.

This is why the world has taken notice of the shenanigans going on, because it is blatantly obvious why it is being done.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 34
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 5:45:41 PM
Vlad: yes indeed, students do need and are issued ID to attend Universities and Colleges. This is precisely what I am talking about. The people who passed these laws, were NOT primarily concerned about making sure that someone was who they said they were, otherwise they would ACCEPT student ID's. That they specifically rule them out, shows that their real intent is to limit who can vote, to people who they most expect will vote for them.

As for requiring everyone to vote, you don't have to persuade me. I wouldn't mind it being required per se, but I know that it will never be seriously proposed.

For one thing, again, the Republican party in the US is completely convinced that most poor and real middle class people (they define middle class as beginning at what statistics show is actually the lower portion of the upper class), will tend to vote for Democrats, because they think most of us are stupid enough that we would actually vote for whoever offered us the most "bribes" in the form of social support programs. Therefore, they will emphatically oppose any law that would make the people who they most want to discourage from voting, be required to go to the polls.

As for your impression of which party does what, I think you are a bout a decade or two behind the times. Back in the 60's, 70's and early 80's, the Dems were indeed the tax-and-spend party. They've moved away from that for the most part, though they are far from being realistic about how much anything costs. The Republicans (who have managed to shape your and a lot of other people's opinions about the Dems very well), are actually the ones who spent us into the mess we are in now, increasing Government spending hugely, even during the Reagan years, when everyone was told they were all about "responsible government."

The characterizations of either party is problematic these days. Under Clinton, we had balanced budgets (depending in who you get to do the calculations), and under Bush, we ran up huge deficits, while reducing tax receipts on purpose.

But as to the whole voting thing, the GOP has been very consistent about wanting to reduce the number of people who are allowed to vote, for at least the last fifty years. Their favorite disguise for that, is to pretend to support "responsible" government and voting practices.
 MondoVman
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 35
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 7:19:17 PM
God awful pestulance of myopic (non)intellectuals! Ugh!
I am going to exercise my RIGHT to be TOO LAZY to re-read and quote the poster's tripe essentially claiming that

Paraphrase: It is easier, simpler, more guarantee-er, and obviously more sexually fulfilling for a/every Republican to obtain a voter ID card than it is for a/every Democrat.

Wow. That's some real horsesh-it for ya.
Tell ya what, I'll include the actual wording after I post this thus tho thfar.

Found it! @Igor

Another point on how the new voter ID laws are obviously aimed , not at confirming right to vote, but on disenfranchising certain segments (i.e. non-Republicans), can be seen by HOW they go about writing the laws.

horsesh-it horsesh-it horsesh-it. Uh, how's that Liberal-tittiee tongue twister go?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 36
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/18/2012 7:37:41 PM
it's too much to ask of poor people, minorities, criminals and illegals


We are not permitted to ask poor people, minorities, criminals or illegals anything. We must never assume to have such atrocious arrogance as to ask, or even worse, have an expectation of them. How horrible to even think. They are in fact equal in all aspects. The criminal is equal to the housewife in all respects. The illegal is equal to the laborer. The minorities must be in fact placed higher then all while the poor shall eat their feast.

The idiocy of leftism is fantasy and the total disregard of logic.

Nice quote. Don't know orgin
http://www.theatheistlibertarian.com/leftist-priorities-selective-outrage/

Leftists are not concerned about human suffering at all. What they seek is to star in a drama where they can play David to someone else’s Goliath.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 37
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 9:31:11 AM
PolitiFact Wisconsin strapped the Truth-O-Meter onto the first question in February. We labeled True a claim that the initial bill was "the most restrictive voter ID legislation in the nation." It was an easy call; that version excluded student IDs, passports and tribal IDs. On provisional balloting, it allowed only 24 hours to present an ID for voters who forgot it on election day.

But Republicans in charge of the Legislature later agreed to add passports and tribal IDs and opened the door for eventual acceptance of student IDs. And forgetful voters will have additional days to supply identification.

But here’s what we learned.

Even in its new form, Wisconsin’s law is one of the most restrictive, based on our research on acceptable IDs and voting procedures for those without IDs. We got information on new voter ID laws around the country from state election offices, and the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Two states pop up as contenders with Wisconsin for the title of "most restrictive."

One, Texas, which like Wisconsin passed a photo ID law in May 2011, now appears to be more restrictive, said University Wisconsin-Madison political scientist David Canon. Texas outlaws student IDs.

But Texas allows a concealed carry firearms permit as proof of identification, which Wisconsin does not. And Texas allows six days to supply missing photo ID after an election compared with three days in Wisconsin.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/jun/12/does-wisconsins-new-voter-id-law-disenfranchise-vo/



Interesting...Texas allows a gun permit to be proof of ID...go fugure.

Anyway, voter ID laws are meant to disenfranchise the poor, students, and the elderly...most of whom would vote for democrats...add the gerry-mandering that republicans are currently doing (not that dem's don't do it too)...it does seems as though the Rep's are trying to rig elections.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 38
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 9:49:55 AM
@ Nr 1 ...


" ... Do you agree with the Republican party that this is done to prevent voter fraud, or is this a ruse to prevent voter turn out? Some feel that this could possibly harm President Obama in the upcoming GE. Thoughts? ... "


Question: WHO BENEFITS from NOT having PHOTO ID?

Hint: It's NOT anyone interested in the integrity of elections.

FREE PHOTO IDs are available in most, if not every one, of the states. The 'cost' or 'inconvenience' claims are fraudulent on their face - as are the votes cast by the ones who seek to overturn the requirement for photo ID.

If an 'unintended consequence' is that voter turnout is somehow mysteriously 'suppressed' by the overwhelming burden of showing a PHOTO ID, that only means the election and the votes cast is that much more honest than it would otherwise have been.

I guess having a Black Panther in combat boots, beret, and armed with a baton walking post in front of a polling place is somehow less likely to 'suppress voter turnout'. Amazingly, even after these people were found guilty, the Holder 'justice department' [sic] dismissed all charges against them. Yet a PHOTO ID is going to 'suppress voter turnout'. Please. That's just too cute by half.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 39
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:27:33 AM
It is halarious that Texas has a 30 voter registration waiting period to vote...yet, has no waiting period to purchase a firearm...at least they require a picture ID for both.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 40
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:32:51 AM
The new laws are cheap for states and voters.

The Advancement Project’s report “What’s Wrong With This Picture?” shows that taxpayers will bear the costs of these measures — more than $20 million in North Carolina, for example, to educate voters and provide free IDs to those without them, as the state’s law requires. This hurts states that are facing big budget constraints. For voters, even if an ID is free, getting the documents to obtain it can be expensive and difficult.

Many states require at least four original forms of identification to obtain a photo ID — documents such as a certified birth certificate, marriage or divorce record, adoption record, a Social Security card, or naturalization papers. A birth certificate in Texas costs $22, a U.S. passport costs as much as $145, and naturalization papers can run up to $200. People born out of state who lack transportation, work multiple jobs, have disabilities, or are home-bound or poor can’t access or afford this paperwork.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-voter-fraud/2011/10/04/gIQAkjoYTL_story_1.html

^^^

It looks as though free identification isn't easy to obtain, either. At least in certain states.

Some people act as if Google doesn't exist.

The Washington Post debunked that one, as well.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 41
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:44:05 AM
1. We need state voter ID laws to prevent fraud.

Prosecutable cases of voter fraud are rare. For example, a 2005 statewide study in Ohio found four instances of ineligible persons voting or attempting to vote in 2002 and 2004, out of 9 million votes cast. An investigation of fraud allegations in Wisconsin in 2004 led to the prosecution of 0.0007 percent of voters. From 2002 to 2005, the Justice Department found, only five people were convicted for voting multiple times. In that same period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for improper voting.

According to Barnard political scientist Lorraine Minnite, most instances of improper voting involve registration and eligibility, such as voters filling out registration forms incorrectly or a person with felony convictions attempting to register. Neither of those issues would be prevented by a state photo ID requirement. According to George Washington University law professor Spencer Overton, a former member of the Commission on Federal Election Reform, “a photo ID requirement would prevent over 1,000 legitimate votes (perhaps over 10,000 legitimate votes) for every single improper vote prevented.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-voter-fraud/2011/10/04/gIQAkjoYTL_story.html

^^^

Debunked, debunked, debunked. A clear case of trying to prevent a record of voter turnout for Democrats just as reported. There isn't that much voter fraud in this country, and while the GOP are still unable to give valid reasons as to why they instated these laws aside from using voter fraud as an excuse, others are busy debunking their lies.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 42
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:47:03 AM
"It's NOT anyone interested in the integrity of elections."

HMmmmm, seems from the viewpoint of women's rights, voter ID as a weapon, religion as a weapon, accusations of who's a muslim, who was born in this country and who was not, the word integrity should never be used by republicans.

I guess the same applies to truth, justice and the american way!
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 43
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:00:49 PM
I have no issue showing my ID, if it helps reduce voter fraud. I do that anyhow everytime I vote in Florida.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 44
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:02:35 PM

HMmmmm, seems from the viewpoint of women's rights, voter ID as a weapon, religion as a weapon, accusations of who's a muslim, who was born in this country and who was not, the word integrity should never be used by republicans.


I didn't understand a word of this? Can you please untwist your logic?
 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 45
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:14:26 PM
As far as the cost of chasing down documents to obtain an ID, I call Bull Sh1t. All the documents were GIVEN to a person at one point in time. To not value the importrance of these documents by the people crying that an ID should not be required, that lost or discarded, is crazy. They deserve to pay the small fees to obtain them.

I bet money if they were told if they had an ID they would then be entitled to food stamps or public aid, these so called disinfranchised people would sh1t an ID out of thin blue air.

Most peopl who do not have an ID, do not have one by design to fly under the radar, wanted by the law, illegal alien, do not want to pay taxes, or various other reasons, but to say it is too difficult to have an ID is ludicrous. I have had one since I was 14 years old and always had one with no effort.

What I do find insane, is the number of people that feel an Phot ID should not be required in this day an age. I will not take a check or a credit card from a customer with out viewing their drivers license, I guess that makes me an oppressor.

Having a person verify they are in fact a legal, law bidding, tax paying American in good standing is wrong in what way again. Please rexplain to me again as to why it is so hard to get an ID if you are legitimate and if someone is so STUPID or LAZY they cannot figure out how to get an ID, again I say, they are probably not voting anyway and in my opinion, someone that stupid probably should be part of any decissions made anywhere.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 46
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:16:39 PM

HMmmmm, seems from the viewpoint of women's rights, voter ID as a weapon, religion as a weapon, accusations of who's a muslim, who was born in this country and who was not, the word integrity should never be used by republicans.



I didn't understand a word of this? Can you please untwist your logic?


I believe he said that all the crazy shyte the Rep's are trying to pull in congress and in many of the Rep controlled states lacks anything that appear to be of integrity.

As has been posted, voter registration comes with bigger more expensive government on the state level...an extremely low incidence of voter fraud exists on a current and historical basis...and new voter ID laws are intended to keep poor, student, minority, and elderly from voting...when one includes all the gerry-mandering being done by Republican states...it leaves no doubt in many minds that Republicans are making an effort to restrict voting to registered republicans.

Chryste...they already stoled one Presidental election...now they want to rig this one???

edit to include:


Reading how those that firmly back Mr. Howdy Doody are complaining about bigger, more expensive government


Once again the nuances of American culture elude some...PK...I was not complaining...I was pointing out the absurd hypocrisy of the right.

double edit:


Seriously? And this logic isn't twisted how?


Do you have trouble sticking with the topics of your posts...or are you like most of the other Rep's that continually bounce around the subject, bringing up all sorts of other issues, kind of like the add kid who cannot focus longer than a few seconds.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 47
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:25:55 PM

Chryste...they already stoled one Presidental election...now they want to rig this one???


Seriously? And this logic isn't twisted how?
 Kohavah
Joined: 3/14/2012
Msg: 48
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 12:31:57 PM
I refuse to vote for another to have a power of attorney over my finances and my moral life. It is humorous watching you argue about who will have the power of attorney over you and yours because you still believe in the voter system con.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 49
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 1:03:41 PM
I love the way the anti-ID crowd refuses to acknowledge simple reality: Try cashing a check at a grocery with no PHOTO ID. If you drive, you already have a photo ID - unless you're an illegal ... in which case, you can buy a phony ID from the same guy that sold you the phony green card. Try making a purchase at Barnes 'n Noble, Whole Foods, Bed, Bath, & Beyond, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target, or any other business with no photo ID. The 'no-photo-ID' crowd has the obvious agenda of wanting to be able to stack the deck in their favor with illegals, felons, and others they'd rather not admit belong with them on their side of the fence. The documents that are required for voting are, at best, minimal, and ANY American citizen or non-felon should have no problem producing them. It's only when they get called out on this matter that they scream 'UNFAIR!' in their typical 'stuck pig' fashion. I call 'Bullshit!' on them and their 'no-photo-ID' scam.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 50
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/19/2012 1:05:58 PM
"Rather rich, coming from the fellow who claims to have made his livlihood working on Wall Street for big business, now claiming to champion the 'little people' since his own 'fortune' is evidently secured, his family raised. Hyporisy is genrally hard to hide, though."

Yeah I worked on Wall Street, yeah did rather well, yup! raised the family. Where you seem to run into problems, is remembering other parts of that thread and several others. I came from poor, my single mother was a waitress. SO I ALWAYS supported the "little people", becuase unlike all of you, I had a first hand point of reference. I've supported, donated and worked for several charitable organizations working for and with the poor.

It must be nice to be so smug, ergo you took "astounded" as a compliment. I enjoy the way you guys blow by facts(nothing penetrates the bubble) about the amount of voter fraud seen in the last few elections WITHOUT your new voter ID laws. Or the obvious cheap shots, about illegals voting. Yeah they sit around all day trying to figure out how to vote, game the system! hahahahaha!! Yeah making $50 a day allows you so much time to concern yourself with things other than food, a place to sleep and hiding from immigration.

As for seniors, the papers they have, the ability to register. Yeah I'm sure the home they live in makes an effort to get them to the polls, to vote. I doubt beyond the obvious easy step, of taking them to register, they help them look for birth certificates, veterans ID's, or other papers. But then again, what would you know, I doubt you do anything but get pissed, when passing the home cause they are trying to cross the street slowly and are in your way!

It' fascinating to see, so many can judge some people without ID..or those who need a new format ID to vote. Because it doesn't resonate with your lifestyle, doesn't mean it doesn't happen or exist today.

VVV edit to add: this from you the king of condescension? Remember those ethnic slurs you posted on the other Limbaugh thread, now deleted? You gave as good as anybody looking down on those you oobjected to him.

Point is the bubble exists, I will listen to any rational argument. You guys now go and show me legit numbers that reflect the amount of voter fraud you are trying to prevent. Should be easy, as you alledge, it happens so much.
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