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 AUTHOR
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 476
New ID voter law?Page 20 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
What you two are argung about, and the individual state laws, is why we need NATIONAL voter laws.

It would be one thing if states enacted laws that were not partisan in intent. Or if they enact laws and chose to then implement them in a fair and even way. These guys want the cheese, and don't want anybody to see, they are rigging the scale to measure it.

Now if you want that kind of hooey, for your local elections, so your favorite mayor or governor, can shine you on, about the fairness of elections, that would be one thing. But viewed more broadly, when you elect a President, OR send representatives or senators to DC, where they will vote for NATIONAL issues, that not only affect their constituents, but ME, as well. That's a crock of shit!
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 477
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/14/2012 10:30:56 AM
Their were errors made that effected both sides....so enacting laws to help eliminate some of these is a prudent thing to do...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 478
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/15/2012 5:32:30 AM
Republican officials, who have used hysteria about alleged voter fraud as an excuse to support measures that disproportionately block Democratic voters, are furiously trying to distance themselves from a growing number of GOP voter registration drives that either submitted false applications or threw away authentic ones.

The incidents might have been overlooked if not for the GOP's clamorous campaign to restrict registration drives, purge voter rolls, roll back early voting, and pass voter ID laws that opponents point out have the effect of depressing the vote among minorities, the poor and other generally Democratic constituencies.

As one Southern California alt-weekly put it, it's turning into a story of "The Wolf Who Cried Wolf."

The latest drama began to unfold on Oct. 17, when the manager of a Tuesday Morning discount store in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley saw a man throwing a garbage bag into the store's private dumpster. Inside the bag was a file folder containing eight completed Virginia voter registration forms.

The manager described the man to Rockingham County sheriff's deputies, who the following day arrested Colin Small, 23, a voter registration drive contractor for the Virginia GOP -- and charged him with eight felonies and five misdemeanors related to the destruction and disclosure of the applications and obstruction of justice.

A few weeks earlier, the GOP had been under fire following reports of suspicious registration applications that had been submitted in 10 Florida counties by a company run by Nathan Sproul, a Republican operative who has long been trailed by allegations of voter fraud. The Republican Party paid Sproul's company, Strategic Allied Consulting, about $3 million this year for registration drives in five swing states: Colorado, Florida, North Carolina, Nevada, and Virginia.

In Palm Beach County, Fla., alone, about 100 questionable voter registrations were flagged, more than half of which involved changing a voter’s party affiliation to Republican or independent. Discrepancies were also found in North Carolina.




And a viral video uploaded to YouTube in late September showed a young woman who worked for Strategic Allied Consulting registering voters in Colorado and admitting that she was only looking for Republicans. "Well, I'm actually trying to register people for a particular party. Because we're out here in support of Romney, actually," the woman said.

Given Sproul's history, it could hardly have come as a surprise to his GOP employers that his canvassers would generate spurious applications.

And yet, because every bit of the process of voting has now become so politically supercharged, once the allegations of voter registration fraud became public, the Republican National Committee and its state chapters quickly severed their ties with Sproul.

"We've made it clear we're not doing business with these guys anymore," Sean Spicer, the RNC communications director, told Michael Isikoff of NBC News. "We've come out pretty strong against this kind of stuff -- and we have zero tolerance for this."

As for Small, who was first hired by Sproul's group, the RNC this week simultaneously denied he was working directly for them and announced that he'd been fired.

On Friday, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus told HuffPost's Amanda Terkel: "If it's true, the guy should be punished. He was fired, and he should have been fired. There's no tolerance for this stuff."

Republican Party of Virginia Chairman Pat Mullins released a statement saying Small's actions were "a direct contradiction of both his training and explicit instructions given to him."

Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, by contrast, issued her own statement, calling Small's arrest just another example of "a concerted effort by the RNC and its allies to win the game by rigging it altogether."

And three Democratic congressmen from Virginia on Tuesday sent a letter to the Justice Department requesting "a multi-state investigation to determine if a pattern of voting registration irregularities related to Strategic Allied Consulting are connected and constitute a broader conspiracy of voter registration fraud."

The frequency of allegations "would seem to suggest something more than the isolated acts of 'a few bad apples,'" they wrote.

Voter registration fraud is different, way more common and considerably less threatening to democracy than actual voter fraud. Registering Mickey Mouse to vote is easy, and a far cry from actually casting a fraudulent ballot.

The main reason voter registration fraud is so common is that canvassers are sometimes rewarded based on how many applications they submit -- which can incentivize padding. That's what happened fairly frequently with Acorn, the community group that Republicans demonized as a fraud factory after it successfully registered over a million mostly inner-city residents before the 2008 election -- with some imaginary and dead people mixed in.

Priebus himself recently cited the example of Acorn to support his argument that "Democrats know they benefit from election fraud."

But Acorn, unlike Strategic Allied Consulting, actually self-reported its canvassers' suspicious applications -- which it was legally obligated to submit nonetheless. The ones from Sproul's groups, on the other hand, were spotted by election officials.

And the Colorado video, combined with the fact that the suspicious Palm Beach applications featured so many party switches, suggest that Sproul's group might have added a new wrinkle: rewarding its canvassers for applications from Republicans or independents, but not from Democrats.

What none of that explains, however, is what might have motivated Small -- who, after all, didn't submit fraudulent applications; he's charged with throwing out legitimate ones.

Because Virginia doesn't register people by party, "it's not possible to tell a party affiliation just by looking at the voter registration form," said state board of elections spokeswoman Nikki Sheridan, ruling out one potential answer.

The eight applicants varied in age, and the rural area where they live is overwhelming white, ruling out two more.

So as it turns out, although county officials won't confirm it on the record, the most likely possibility may be that Small was throwing the applications away because he'd waited longer than the statutory 15 days after he collected them to turn them in, and was afraid of getting in trouble.

Virginia's guidelines for voter registration drives clearly state that failure to turn in completed applications within 15 days can lead to prosecution for a misdemeanor.

Small, although he was released from jail not long after his arrest, could not be reached for comment.

Sheridan, from the state board of elections, said that the eight applications found in the dumpster were processed by local officials that same day.

As it turned out, three of the applicants were already registered, and one was rejected on account of a felony conviction. But four of them will now be newly on the voter rolls in November.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/25/gop-voter-fraud_n_1990104.html
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 479
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/15/2012 7:22:37 AM
In response to fixing the way we American's vote I found this and thought it was a great idea..little chance of it happening:



1) Abolish The Electoral College

In a modern Democracy, there is simply no way to defend what happened in 2000, when the candidate rejected by the American people nonetheless became their president — albeit with an assist from five Supreme Court justices. Add to this the fact that the Electoral College offers copious opportunities for election rigging — such as Gov. Tom Corbett’s (R-PA) plan to give most of Pennsylvania’s electoral votes to Romney no matter who won the state — or the possibility that some of the 538 people chosen as members of the Electoral College could give their votes to someone other than the winner of their state, and this relic from more than 200 years ago becomes completely bonkers.

Additionally, while voters in Ohio were undoubtedly sick of the parade of political advertisements that hit their state this election cycle, there is a very real advantage to being from a swing state — presidential candidates have an extra reason to listen to your concerns and will potentially make campaign promises that benefit your state. The flip side of this is that major cities like Chicago, New York or Los Angeles, the deep south (including many African-American population centers) and much of the Great Plains do not enjoy this same access to the next president. The President of the United States should be the president of all the United States, and a voter in Harlem should have the same opportunity to make their case to a presidential candidate as a voter in Pensacola.

Most importantly, however, the President of the United States should be the person that most Americans want to be President of the United States. The way to make this happen is to abolish (or at least, make irrelevant) the Electoral College, either through constitutional amendment or through the National Popular Vote compact.

2) Abolish Partisan Election Officials

As if Katherine Harris did not make this point perfectly clear in 2000, partisan state election officials proved over and over again in 2012 that neither party should be in control of collecting and counting votes. Yet this year brought Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted’s war on early voting, attempted voter purges in Florida, Colorado and Iowa, and top election officials touting laws that do little more than keep minorities, low-income and student voters from the polls.

A better alternative is the Wisconsin plan, where a nonpartisan Government Accountability Board made up of retired judges runs elections, not partisan officials beholden to a political party.

3) Eliminate Partisan Gerrymandering

Based on early vote totals, which admittedly could change before the final tallies are available, voters cast over half a million more votes for a Democratic House candidate than for a Republican House candidate in 2012. Yet Republicans will control the House largely due to the kind of partisan gerrymandering that allows President Obama to carry the state of Ohio, but Democrats to only carry a quarter of its House districts. This is both unacceptable and unconstitutional.

There are many proposals for how to end partisan gerrymandering, which range from non-partisan redistricting commissions to judge-drawn districts to proportional representation. One thing is clear, however, a system that allows one party to seize control of the House for up to a decade simply because it wins in a redistricting year has to go.

4) Allow All Voters To Register On Election Day

Same day registration is the law in Idaho, Iowa, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, and it will soon be implemented in California as well. This basic reform can boost turnout by as much as 7 percent, and it should be the law nationwide. Congress could make it so tomorrow, at least with respect to Congressional elections, because the Constitution permits the United States to “at any time by law make or alter” a state’s election law.

5) Ensure Adequate Early Voting In All States

It should go without saying that when voters have to wait six hours or more in line to exercise their most fundamental right, that their state failed to provide them with adequate opportunities to exercise the franchise. Yet lawmakers and election officials in the key states of Ohio and Florida fought tooth and nail to cut the number of days when voters could cast an early ballot. Their electorates paid for it this year with unacceptably long lines — the kind that actively discourage people from waiting to cast a ballot. This performance must not be repeated in 2016.

http://thinkprogress.org/tag/voter-suppression/?mobile=nc
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 480
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/15/2012 8:46:49 AM
^^^^^^
So, what you are saying is that we should turn from a republic into a democracy. Yeah, that is a brilliant idea... its basically the leftist agenda anyway. A full democracy is a really really bad idea. But, you wouldn't agree with that. It's the people's choice right.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 481
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/15/2012 8:49:38 AM
So, what you are saying is that we should turn from a republic into a democracy. Yeah, that is a brilliant idea... its basically the leftist agenda anyway. A full democracy is a really really bad idea. But, you wouldn't agree with that. It's the people's choice right.


Funny that...the right wingnut evangelical fascist neo-con's have been screaming for a popular vote election all year long in fear that President Obama might win the electoral college but not the popular vote...of course President Obama won both handedly.


So, what you are saying


Clearly, no where in my post is there a call to reform the type of government we have...it is an attempt to remove politics from access to voting...in addition to voting reform to reflect the true will of the ppl...in this day and age how we could re-elect Pres. Bush without a popular vote (and help from Florida's registrar of voters and SCOTUS) is incomprehensible...of course, the right wing-nuts just want to rig elections and remove any mystery for them.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 482
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/15/2012 8:54:53 AM

A full democracy is a really really bad idea


Please forgive my ignorance. But why is a full democracy a really, really bad idea? I'm sure it's been stated before somewhere in these threads...but I missed that explanation.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 483
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/20/2012 6:44:15 PM
And here we go AGAIN!!! I guess it's a matter of if you didn't fluck them this time, we can do it the next time!

The republicants, fresh from defeat, having had their kumbya moment, having discussed making the party a more inclusive party...have gone back into the slime barrel. To me, it's where they belong, but hey, that's my own personal opinion.

Today both Scott Walker returned to the stump for voter suppression. Back after being smacked in the face by the courts. He is at it again with the ID cards, with his own version of when and if you can get one. His next folly of course is "same day registration", his new pet pieve.

Joining him in the barrel of muck is the secretary of state of Ohio. Who now wants to have his state cease to be "winner takes all" in the electoral college. He thinks a better idea is to disenfranchise the majority of people by giving the various electoral votes to the different districts that vote. So a district with a population of say 250,000 will have parity with a district of 2 million.

The republican scumbag machine will never quit. It's who they are, what they believe. They think it's their right and privilege to take the voting public's representation away. They know better than you...

Ohio will you not please turn these scumbags out of office? Please...
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 484
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 12:05:32 PM

Former GOP Leaders: Florida Law Passed To Suppress Democratic Votes
Ryan J. Reilly - 10:40 AM EST, Monday November 26, 2012

A Florida law that led to longer lines at polling locations was intentionally designed by Republican staffers and consultants to make things difficult for Democratic voters, two former GOP officials told the Palm Beach Post.

Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer, who has been indicted for allegedly stealing $200,000 from the party, and former Gov. Charlie Crist, who is now a Democrat, both said that early voting days and hours were reduced for the benefit of the Republican Party, according to a report from the newspaper on Sunday. “They never came in to see me and tell me we had a (voter) fraud issue,” Greer told the paper. “It’s all a marketing ploy.”

GOP consultant Wayne Bertsch told the paper that targeting Democratic voters was the goal of the restrictions because Democratic early voting turnout operations "sent a chill down our spines."


^^^Welcome to more grisly truths Republicans. I'm sure there's more to come from that sad trunk of win-at-all-costs cheater tricks....as the GOP start to abandon all sorts of pledges, alliances and secrets.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 485
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 4:26:58 PM

^^^Welcome to more grisly truths Republicans. I'm sure there's more to come from that sad trunk of win-at-all-costs cheater tricks....as the GOP start to abandon all sorts of pledges, alliances and secrets.


Origin of story:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/early-voting-curbs-called-power-play/nTFDy/

Claim

Republican leaders said in proposing the law that it was meant to save money and fight voter fraud. But a former GOP chairman and former Gov. Charlie Crist, both of whom have been ousted from the party, now say that fraud concerns were advanced only as subterfuge for the law’s main purpose: GOP victory.


Who is making the claim:

But a former GOP chairman and former Gov. Charlie Crist, both of whom have been ousted from the party,


Why

“Jim Greer has been accused of criminal acts against this organization and anything he says has to be considered in that light,” says Brian Burgess, Florida GOP spokesman since September.


So, he's pretty much going to jail for voter fraud and is trying to get out of it by saying "but everyone knew about it".

Florida is f*d up on their voting. It isn't like that wasn't already known either. They need voter reform there as much as any place don't you think?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 486
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 4:29:15 PM

Florida is f*d up on their voting. It isn't like that wasn't already known either. They need voter reform there as much as any place don't you think?

They sure do and when someone rationally looks at the voter fraud, they understand that photo ID has nothing to do with it.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 487
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 6:29:56 PM

So, he's pretty much going to jail for voter fraud and is trying to get out of it by saying "but everyone knew about it".

Not really. Rather, he is being indicted for embezzlement, was ousted from the GOP, and most likely he figures he has nothing left to lose by making a parting shot-- one that merely confirms people's prior assessment.

RIF
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 488
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 8:30:22 PM

They sure do and when someone rationally looks at the voter fraud, they understand that photo ID has nothing to do with it.


When you wake up you would realize that it will probably be part of it in some way.
 toightpants
Joined: 11/15/2012
Msg: 489
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 10:50:50 PM

But why is a full democracy a really, really bad idea?

Because it basically devolves into mob rule.
Because full (direct?) democracy gives each individual power over everything.
But people aren't really individuals they have memberships in groups. No man's an island.

Republican, democrat, liberal, libertarian, family name or legacy (i.e. Kennedy), religious affiliation (christian, jew, buddhist, islamic, hindu, old german baptist, Amish, etc..), parent, teacher, male, female, transgender, gay, straight, environmentalist, atheist, civil servant, black, white, asian, hispanic, pro-life, pro-choice, unemployed, employed, soldier, grandparent, AARP, 1%'er, gen x'er, etc., ad nauseaum.
All group identities, you have to pick a side or get railroaded.
If you pick a side, identify with a group, you become a target to another group.

People group up and then attack other groups or individuals (i.e. NRA vs. Liberals, 1%'ers vs. OWS, teachers vs. Board of Education).
If you are a minority group, you are completely left out, marginalized, or sucked into a larger group where you have to promote the larger group goals (or you are attacked and forced out).

You don't have a representative with equal say among groups among issues, you only have as much representation as the power of your group of individuals and what the majority (or spokesman) of that group dictates is your position (or you find another group). The group with the biggest membership (and/or access to relevant resources) wins and controls power and looks out for its own best interest leading to pandering to like minded special interest, all while attempting to keep other groups from gaining power.

So full democracy would lead to one group or majority in power to the detriment and marginalization of all minority groups almost immediately, rather than the slow, at first but increasingly progressive, downward spiral through socialistic democracy we are going through now (in the U.S., sorry didn't check your profile to see if you were Canadian or from the UK), and have been since pretty much the adoption of the constitution.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 490
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/26/2012 11:48:22 PM
#579

But why is a full democracy a really, really bad idea?


I see someone took that up in #586, and I agree in general. This was one of the things James Madison talked about in the Federalist Papers, which were a series of articles he and Alexander Hamilton and John Jay wrote in a New York newspaper to explain to a questioning public the various design features of the brand new constitution, and the reasons for them.

In Federalist No. 10, Madison discussed in detail why the men who framed the Constitution had designed a democratic republic, rather than a pure democracy. They had studied examples of pure democracies through history, and they had found reasons why they had never lasted long. Madison noted that direct democracies had existed only among small populations living in compact areas--city-states--and that even there they offered no cure for what he called the "evils of faction."

He wrote that these direct democracies had "in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." The problem always is that the many use their power to take for themselves the property of the few. These men were all the more aware of the danger of the "rule of the mob" because they were watching the violence and disorder that was playing out in France right at that time. They were impressed with the need to protect private property, and several parts of the Constitution guarantee property rights. (But now, apparently, we're supposed to ignore all that old-fashioned stuff in favor of "fairness" and envy and redistribution--what's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.)

I can't detail Madison's whole argument here, but it makes a lot of sense. Federalist No. 10 is only a few pages, and it explains, very clearly, a lot about why this country was designed as it was. Most Americans used to like that design for a free country, even just a few decades ago, and about a million of them have died in wars to protect it. Too bad for them, if all that sacrifice only bought what we are seeing now. Tens of millions of Americans no longer appreciate or even understand the government the Constitution designed. As soon as these fine citizens become the majority, they will throw the whole thing on the trash pile--if they haven't already.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 491
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 4:58:17 AM

When you wake up you would realize that it will probably be part of it in some way.

Then it should be no problem for you to post examples of voter fraud that occurred in Fla. in the last election and how picture ID would have prevented that, or one can just assume that you are making stuff up.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 492
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 7:57:34 AM

(But now, apparently, we're supposed to ignore all that old-fashioned stuff in favor of "fairness" and envy and redistribution--what's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.)


This is indeed the most commonly chosen, purposeful misinterpretation of what this is ACTUALLY about, selected by those who want to use political power to enforce their rigged version of what is and isn't actually what they earned, so that they can prevent anyone from taking back from them, what should never have been theirs to begin with.

Anyway, that is only peripherally involved with the GOP push for "anti-voter fraud" regulations. It's related, because the reason why some of them pretend to themselves that they only lose elections due to cheating by the opposition, is in order to hide from themselves that the fact that they want to ignore the working class people's concerns, is the real reason why they lose.

So they created several phantom Enemies Within, that they can use as bogey men to scare the ignorant citizens into voting against their own best interests. Now that Communism doesn't work like it used to to cause panic, and Terrorism doesn't seem to be enough, especially for local elections, they conjured up the myth that vast numbers of illegal aliens and crafty double voting Democrats are the REAL reason why pay and benefits to working class people are getting lower all the time, while CEO and Congressional pay gets HIGHER at the same time.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 493
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 8:25:41 AM
^^^ Well, I don't agree with you so much on the tone. The dangers pointed out are started by the right from real enough situations but the phantom enemies are creations of the left. There really are unions that are destroying the country. There really is voter fraud. There really are terrorists that really wouldn't think twice about cutting someones head off if given half a chance.

The language then turns up in heated contests and derailed. A masterful game performed by the left to demonize the right. If someone on the right uses the word "communism" as an example of a policy that moves left in that direction and it is a direction they rightfully believe is not a wise direction for the country they are labeled crazy by comedians and accepted as off their rocker by the whole of left leaning pop culture.

Now, maybe you had different circumstances growing up but for the life of me I can not remember any time until the last 4 years where I have heard so many people say, "I am a socialist." It has now turned around where if you are not a socialist or support socialist type polices you are a backwards intolerant religious freak. That is my experience in the big city now. It's quite disturbing and strange. I'm not religious either. I have probably been to church about 5 times in my life and that was when I was young.

So, your experience may differ. Which is more troubling?

Do you think the intention of laws is to make people act good or to prevent bad things from happening in the future? VoterID is not a bad idea. It was poorly timed and quite possibly purposely so. That doesn't mean it isn't still a valid procedure to keep order.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 494
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 9:26:31 AM
Double voting seems to be more of a problem with the voter registrar than the actual voter:

It's pretty easy to be registered in two places, even if you don't own a second home like Adell Hardiman or filmmaker Michael Moore, who's registered in both New York and his native Michigan, where he has a lakefront house, according to the Smoking Gun. When you move and change registration, in most states, you're supposed to give the address or county where you were previously registered. That notification, in turn, is supposed to trigger a cancellation of your former registration. But not every state bothers to report the new registration.
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/addpost.aspx?PostID=15703956&x=30&y=9

And most certianly would not be corrected by a picture ID
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 495
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 9:37:40 AM

This is indeed the most commonly chosen, purposeful misinterpretation


It is my opinion, based on what I know and have seen. I could just as easily dismiss any opinion of yours as a "purposeful misinterpretation" you had chosen to make. That is an intellectually lazy dodge people make when they have no arguments. The notion that the Supreme Court protects private property rights as strongly today as it did historically is laughable--no one who knew the facts could believe it. I could cite you decisions where justices have detailed how that protection has weakened. The weakening speeded up with the beginning of the environmental movement forty-odd years ago. The U.S. EPA is one of the main violators of private property rights--and we can't even get rid of the wrongdoers, because they're not elected.

But property isn't just land--it's all the fruits of your labor. And it's always easier to vote yourself what someone else has earned than to earn it yourself. Stirring up envy and resentment makes this process easier to rationalize as "fairness." This recent election is evidence we are uncomfortably close to the "rule of the mob" the founders were so concerned about. One of the moral hazards of a large central government is that the politicians who run it and gain their power from it can keep themselves in power by using promises of government benefits--paid for with some other poor chump's money--to buy votes. And the people who play this rigged game don't care if the voter is a citizen, if he's already voted once, or even if he's alive. All they care about is getting and keeping power.

There are now millions of slobs taking up space in the United States who wouldn't give a damn if Barack Obama had been caught on camera giving top secret defense information to our enemies or arranging the murder of a political rival, as long as he kept slopping the federal gravy ladle their way. The top five percent of income earners already pay forty percent of all federal income taxes, and the top ten percent pay more than seventy percent of them. The bottom fifty percent of earners pay about two percent of all federal income taxes, and almost half of American income earners pay no federal income taxes at all. And still it's not enough--we keep hearing the time-tested, envy-inspired cry of "soak the rich!" Of course it's idiotic demagoguery, but when times get tough, there are always enough idiots and demagogues around to make it work.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 496
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 9:53:31 AM
There are now millions of slobs taking up space in the United States who wouldn't give a damn if Barack Obama had been caught on camera giving top secret defense information to our enemies or arranging the murder of a political rival, as long as he kept slopping the federal gravy ladle their way. The top five percent of income earners already pay forty percent of all federal income taxes, and the top ten percent pay more than seventy percent of them. The bottom fifty percent of earners pay about two percent of all federal income taxes, and almost half of American income earners pay no federal income taxes at all. And still it's not enough--we keep hearing the time-tested, envy-inspired cry of "soak the rich!" Of course it's idiotic demagoguery, but when times get tough, there are always enough idiots and demagogues around to make it work.


And you are just one of them.

But lets examine this quote just a bit...shall we...because the figures you us are as a result of the Bush tax cuts...and your post negates that those at the very top of incomes rarely pay more that 15% while those of us firmly in the middle incomes pay 25%...but, hey...whatever you say....


And it's always easier to vote yourself what someone else has earned than to earn it yourself.


Really...your point would be that those of us here posting haven't earned what we own and thus have no right to vote...my aren't we pretentious.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 497
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 10:04:39 AM
The general insinuation (especially by sour grapes Romney himself) that Romney was not promising as many or more lucrative goodies in exchange for votes and campaign funding is laughable-- in the extreme.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 498
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 10:41:39 AM
Sometimes I read his postings and think, maybe eating the meatloaf starts halfway through, since not unlike a person with Tourettes, he starts off with an interesting premise, then leaves reality...

"The U.S. EPA is one of the main violators of private property rights"

The question largely is one of would we even need an EPA, if corporations were good neighbors? You blame the "environmental movement"...would such a movement be needed if that california utility didn't dump and contaminate neighbors lands and wells, if GE didn't dump all those PCB's in the Hudson river, or on their factory grounds, next to where people lived, or the company who created spontaneous combustion on river surfaces, or the Love Canal...

If a neghbor shot your dog, would you simply go out and buy a new dog? If your property was so contaminated that you either couldn't sell it, or must sell it at a greatly reduced value, due to it, is that OK?

"it's all the fruits of your labor"

Maybe, if you do wrong to your neighbor. But as far as I know, there is no 100% tax on anyone.

"And the people who play this rigged game don't care if the voter is a citizen, if he's already voted once, or even if he's alive"

Is that like the same thing, as denying a legitimate vote, because your party will lose, since it offers government, only to those who are rich? Beyond that question is with a hotly contested election like we just had, and a slew of election watchers, especially from the republican side...why have we not heard of whole graveyards voting? Or bus loads of illegal aliens lined up at the polls?

"There are now millions of slobs taking up space in the United States"

Are those the people who signed up for secession you're talking about? Or don't they count because they support YOUR OWN version of demagoguery? You say "envy inspired cry of "soak the rich"", we say pay a little more because you can afford it...and it's not like we're talking 20%...it's a matter of 4.6%.

"pay no federal incom taxes at all"

Then your beef is with the federal tax code, ya know, the one that gives special corporate tax breaks to them, or favors the rich...NOT with the 50% at all. But for all their pandering, don't see many republicants, dealing with tax reform...they are far to busy with Susan Rice, vaginal probes and self deportation.

Sorry, you were far better at framing the jihadist issues and stuffing yourself with meatloaf, than you faired with this mess of propaganda....
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 499
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 11:20:58 AM

The general insinuation (especially by sour grapes Romney himself) that Romney was not promising as many or more lucrative goodies in exchange for votes and campaign funding is laughable-- in the extreme.


Actually, it is true that almost all political parties try to buy support and votes the same way, by promising to support legislation and other actions that will benefit the selected group of voters they are after. That, or they promise to do away with things that the group-to-be-bribed hates.

The ironic thing is, that the GOP decided to bribe the RICHEST people, because they correctly realized that they could donate much more cash to help defray campaign costs, but they completely overlooked the fact that the richest people also cast the fewest ballots. This is part of why I think they decided to promote this whole "discourage as many voters as possible" routine. It's an attempt to make up for having chose the least populated portion of the electorate to cater to, by limiting as many of the rest of the electorate from voting at all as they can, while doing their best to frighten enough others to swing things their way.

It would be so much easier, if they just returned to the old fashioned conservative approach to problem solving, by actually looking at what worried everyone, and finding a direct way to address it. So far, there is no indication at all that the top leadership of the party is willing to do that, however. They still want to find out a way to say "we only like already rich people, and we want every one else to pay all the bills," so that people who are NOT already rich, think they are in the "like" group, even though they aren't.

Oh well.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 500
New ID voter law?
Posted: 11/27/2012 3:07:19 PM

wa wa wa waahhhhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhh

http://www.moremonmouthmusings.net/2012/10/11/democratic-operatives-caught-encouraging-voter-fraud/
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and picture ID would change this how?
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