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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > New ID voter law? [CLOSED]      Home login  
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 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 151
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New ID voter law?Page 7 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
They count known registered voters, checked in and voted, vs results

- if checked in = higher then known you just may have a problem.
- if #vote results is higher then checked in... You just may have a problem.
- if some type of verification with ID then any anomalies would stand out massively. Also would count in reverse... Let’s say compromised voting official loses a few boxes of ballots...

Within a range is acceptable just due to error. However, you start crossing hundreds or thousands and you can narrow it down pretty quickly where it is and which ones.


Without ID validation there is no third data point of validation that helps things make sense. When I vote where I live there are a group of people with big books that have everyone registered by address and when your vote is cast you get a check mark. If you don't show up on that list you have to prove who you are. If you are voting out of your registered county you get marked as having voted out of county on a separate list.

It seems pretty solid to me.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 152
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 1:55:44 PM
They count known registered voters, checked in and voted, vs results

- if checked in = higher then known you just may have a problem.


Am I missing something here...because I seem to remember that voter turnout is way less than 100% in almost all elections, if not all...in fact, voter turnout is seldom as high as 50%...so just where is it that voter turnout is greater than 100% of the registered voters?

The voter turnout for presidental elections is the greatest turnout ratio for most election years and rarely gets over 55%....and has not gotten over 61% since 1960...where are all these voters that are running up the polls at over 100% of the registered voters???

The push against voting rights in Maine is just one example of the most direct assault on ballot access since the Jim Crow era. The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), the influential corporate-funded group that writes model bills for Republican state legislators, has pushed Republicans across the country to impose new restrictions on voting and to overturn progressive laws like Maine's. "I don't want everybody to vote," ALEC co-founder Paul Weyrich said three decades ago. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."

Since the Voting Rights Act of 1965, states have passed a steady stream of reforms to make it easier for people to vote. Now Republicans are pushing to make voting more difficult. "This is a hard-fought privilege," one Florida state senator said earlier this year. "This is something people die for. You want to make it convenient?"

http://prospect.org/article/who-stole-election-0
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 153
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 2:14:24 PM
I said it is a 3 way validation. Yes not 100% show up so you don't have accurate numbers to base it off of with just registration rolls.

However, for every validated, registered voter the end result count checks to that.

If a big election occurs and is large turnout you are covered on that.

Why is a valid vote distasteful?

Ok... so why don't we apply your trust of 'the system' to the rest of life. First... No standardized testing for schools. No verifications on stock trades. No checks for id on credit cards. No drivers test. No 'stress testing for banks' No regulation of utility companies. No environmental regulations. No fines for overdue library books and especially no ID required to one out. Definitely no ID required cashing a check.

You put rules around things so there is accountability and a repeatable and structured process. You don't typically leave it up to God in every other area of life do you?
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 154
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 2:32:24 PM

How about you read the article first before you cite it, your 1000 is actually 12 people and how would a picture -ID have stopped this from happening?




During the election, 1,060 absentee votes were cast out of the 1,403 ballots mailed out to people who requested them, according to a July 2010 report by WCTV.


No I think it is you that needs to read it 1060 absentee ballots were cast out of 1403 total.

1060 is more than 100!

That is how many fraudulent votes were cast. It might have been just twelve that cast these votes but there was still over 100 votes cast that shouldn't have been.




This is tampering with voting machines, mutilation of election materials, etc. This seems to be someone who had access to an area that a typical voter doesn't. I'm not sure how a voter ID law would have had any effect at all.


No these were absentee ballots if they had been verified with the actual voters by ID they could have never been cast.

So what is the next problem y'all see with the IDs? Cost has been shot down the need for it has been proven and there is more voter fraud out there than y'all claim.

Every argument that the ones against this has posted has proven to be fallacious.

The IDs are needed to have a fair election not one of the gripes with this holds water!

Here is another little tidbit from that article.....
News of the arrests followed The Daily Caller’s interview with former Alabama Democratic Rep. Artur Davis, in which he said voter identification laws are needed to counter ballot fraud in local elections.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/24/12-charged-with-voter-fraud-in-georgia-election/#ixzz1qGFjt9CT


A former Democratic rep says we need voter identification laws.

Hummm......sounds like some of the left here is out of step with the party.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 155
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 2:33:13 PM
Why is a valid vote distasteful?

Ok... so why don't we apply your trust of 'the system' to the rest of life. First... No standardized testing for schools. No verifications on stock trades. No checks for id on credit cards. No drivers test. No 'stress testing for banks' No regulation of utility companies. No environmental regulations. No fines for overdue library books and especially no ID required to one out. Definitely no ID required cashing a check.

You put rules around things so there is accountability and a repeatable and structured process. You don't typically leave it up to God in every other area of life do you?


Do you have trouble staying on topic...or are you making an attempt to hijack the thread?


Why is a valid vote distasteful?


Thing is I think elections to date have had valid votes...what I find distateful is the assault of the republican party to rig election turnout in favor of republican voters...because historically, students, the elderly, the poor, and minorities vote democrat...this is just a distasteful effort on the part of the GOP to rig the 2012 election because there's no other way to win it.


However, for every validated, registered voter the end result count checks to that.


I've been voting for 37 years and there's never been one accusation of voter fraud here...and I'm comfortable with my election officials and their ability to verify that only registered voters are voting....now why should I ask them to do an additional layer of needless work when they're already doing an accurate job? he only sense of voter ID is that it will reduce the amount of voters that will vote democrat.

During the election, 1,060 absentee votes were cast out of the 1,403 ballots mailed out to people who requested them, according to a July 2010 report by WCTV

But:

The 12 people charged
http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/24/12-charged-with-voter-fraud-in-georgia-election/

Seems as though WCTV didn't do very good homework...typical media frenzy
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 156
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 2:43:10 PM
@ Msg 190. So you posted a "supposed" list of how much a valid ID cost in all 50 states. Big whoop. My guess is that list is not even accurate. $23 for an ID in California? Not!

And even with free identification, that doesn't make things easier because there is still a process to even get such ID.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 157
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:03:27 PM


A valid Cal. ID card does cost as little as $7.00, if you can show that you are poor............... If one can't even follow the process of getting a CDL, or CID, then it is doubtful that they could even follow the process of being employed.

Would you have the state/fed. just open up the voting booths to anyone?

By the way, that list of costs of ID in the various states was accurate....... look it up youself, that is if you can follow the process to even do that.



And we thought you were good at math
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 158
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:19:41 PM

this is just a distasteful effort on the part of the GOP to rig the 2012 election because there's no other way to win


That makes no sense. None. Are you really saying that the entire power structure of the country rests in the hands of the undocumented, the indigent and the infirm.

And you don't think that is bizarre? Just the way it supposed to work... uh, yup.

Or is that just not true at all and since you think the elections are fair the way they are... unless you don't agree with how the vote turns out for things like states’ rights to enact laws you don't agree with... Or does majority rule only work when it is your side? I bet if Obama loses you will claim that republicans engineered the votes and hijacked the country. Even if no laws changed it will just be those few that already enacted the verifications that will confirm your suspicions. Why not... will happen in reverse as well. But doing anything to account for that inevitability might disenfranchise someone who probably isn't going to vote anyway.

My city is pretty organized with their voting process so it doesn’t really change anything for me. I don’t see people for the last several years crying in the streets that the evil republicans that run the city are stomping on those poor helpless souls. But maybe because my city is also 49% democrat and only 29% republican and 22% independent. Hmm now why aren’t they screaming in the streets about the horror of disenfranchisement?

These rules are in place already. Can you show any proof that they have been altering outcomes?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 159
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:22:37 PM

That makes no sense. None. Are you really saying that the entire power structure of the country rests in the hands of the undocumented, the indigent and the infirm.

And you don't think that is bizarre? Just the way it supposed to work... uh, yup.


Yep...that's what I'm sayin...and it's as bizarre an idea as illegal alien hispanics lining up in Maine to tilt the vote...
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 160
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:48:15 PM
and it's as bizarre an idea as illegal alien hispanics lining up in Maine to tilt the vote...


If the whole 'illegal alien' part were dropped from it and it was presented as an improvement in processes and validations for times when elections are contested. In an effort to shorten time, reduce costs and ease tensions during times of political stress these methods will be a vital tool in dispatching these unnecessary and often times baseless claims.

Would that have made a difference?

Just for Congress over 107 times since 1933. That doesn't take into account all the other state, local, city elections that have been contested. Fraud may be eventually disproved but it’s the same song and dance every time. Let’s just answer the question in advance and save everyone the days, weeks, months, of hassles.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/98-194_20101102.pdf


From 1933 to 2009 (the 73rd Congress through the 111th Congress), the U.S. House of Representatives considered 107 contested election cases. The vast majority of these cases were resolved in favor of the contestee, a term referring to a Member or Member-elect of the House of Representatives whose election was challenged. The term contestant refers to an individual who challenged the election of a Member-elect of the House of Representatives.

 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 161
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 4:05:23 PM
“This year there’s been a significant wave of new laws in states across the country that have the effect of cracking down on voting rights,” said Michael Waldman, the executive director of the Brennan Center, who noted that five million votes would have made a difference in both the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. “It is the most significant rollback in voting rights in decades.”

The biggest impact, the Brennan Center said, will be from laws requiring people to show government-issued photo identification to vote. This year, 34 states introduced legislation to require it — a flurry of activity that Jennie Bowser, a senior fellow at the National Conference of State Legislatures, called “pretty unusual.” Before this year, only two states, Indiana and Georgia, had “strict” photo identification requirements for voters, according to the conference. This year, five more states — Wisconsin, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas — passed laws to join their ranks

The Brennan Center estimates that 11 percent of potential voters do not have state-issued photo identification. By that measure, it finds that the new laws would affect 3.2 million voters in the states where the change is scheduled to take effect before the 2012 elections.

Representative Terri A. Sewell, Democrat of Alabama, said her state’s new voter identification law, which is set to take effect in 2014, would strike close to home. Her father, who uses a wheelchair, has let his driver’s license lapse, she said, and used his Social Security card as identification when he voted for her — something that will no longer be allowed.

“My mom will find a way to get my dad a photo ID, but a lot of my constituents don’t have the same capability,” Ms. Sewell said. “Given the relatively low turnout that we see in modern-day elections, we should be encouraging people to go to the polls to exercise their rights, and not discouraging them.”

The Brennan Center argues that the type of fraud that such laws are intended to combat — impersonation — is extremely rare. The South Carolina State Election Commission “knows of no confirmed cases of voter identification fraud, defined as a person presenting himself to vote as someone he is not,” Chris Whitmire, a spokesman, said in an e-mail.

The Brennan Center notes that between one million and two million people voted on days that are being eliminated by states that are scaling back early voting. But whether turnout will go down as a result of the change is unclear. Curtis Gans, the director of the Center for the Study of the American Electorate at American University, said that states with early voting did not always have better turnout relative to states that did not. “It’s a mixed picture,” he said, noting that early voting benefited Democrats in 2008 and Republicans in 2004.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/us/new-state-laws-are-limiting-access-for-voters.html?pagewanted=all
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 162
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 4:25:44 PM

News of the arrests followed The Daily Caller’s interview with former Alabama Democratic Rep. Artur Davis, in which he said voter identification laws are needed to counter ballot fraud in local elections.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/24/12-charged-with-voter-fraud-in-georgia-election/#ixzz1qGFjt9CT


Seems as someone needs to inform some in the democratic party of their party lines as this democrat is calling FOR the use of photo IDs to stop voter fraud!

So it seems this is NOT just a Republican idea there are Democrats that see the need for this as well.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 163
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/26/2012 4:41:40 PM
And here we go around in a big circle. I may as well have quoted from Fox News...

This study brought to you by:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/elert/right_wing_judicial_activism_fault_of_liberal_tactics/

Instead, liberals should engage in activism “on the ground” and avoid bringing political cases to the courts. Although convincing a panel of justices to rule in accordance with one’s platform is easier than convincing the public, the writer argues that “this should be no excuse for liberal activists


I looked for 3rd party validation of the statistics in that report. I didn't find them. There was anecdotal evidence of a Wheelchair bound person that has 2 years to get his ID and other anecdotal issues. Does this report state how the data was obtained, from where and how it was processed, validated, and confirmed to come up with the millions of disenfranchised?
What were the criteria? Was it based on race, income, and gender then extrapolated from there?
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/pages/fellowship_opportunities

but are not limited to those funded by Equal Justice Works, Skadden, Open Society/Soros Foundation, Kirkland & Ellis, and law-school-specific fellowships, like the Arthur Liman Public Interest Law Fellowship.



Ok… here we go. The Actual Report and the 5 million disenfranchised are: What is doesn’t say is where did the number of 10.3% of those “potential voters do not have state-issued photo ID. IOW the number was entirely made up? They could have said 1%. They could have said .03%
http://brennan.3cdn.net/92635ddafbc09e8d88_i3m6bjdeh.pdf

This estimate is derived as follows: (1) New photo ID laws for voting will be in effect for the 2012 election in five states
(Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin), which have a combined citizen voting age population of just under
29 million. 3.2 million (10.3%) of those potential voters do not have state-issued photo ID. Although Rhode Island’s law
will be in effect in 2012, the requirements are less onerous than those in the other states and so it was excluded. (2) New
proof of citizenship laws will be in effect in three states (Alabama, Kansas, Tennessee), two of which will also have new
photo ID laws. Assuming conservatively that those without proof of citizenship overlap substantially with those without
state-issued photo ID, we excluded those two states. The citizen voting age population in the remaining state (Alabama)
is 3.43 million. Of those potential voters, 240,000 (7%) do not have documentary proof of citizenship. (3) Two states
(Florida and Texas) passed laws restricting voter registration drives, causing all or most of those drives to stop. In 2008,
2.13 million voters registered in Florida and, very conservatively, at least 8.24% or 176,000 of them did so through drives.
At least 501,000 voters registered in Texas, and at least 5.13% or 26,000 of them did so via drives. (4) Maine abolished
Election Day registration. In 2008, 60,000 Maine citizens registered and voted on Election Day. (5) The early voting
period was cut by half or more in three states (Florida, Georgia and Ohio). In 2008, nearly 8 million Americans voted
early in these states. An estimated 1 to 2 million voted on days eliminated by these new laws. (6) Two states (Florida and
Iowa) made it substantially more difficult or impossible for people with past felony convictions to get their voting rights
restored. Up to one million people in Florida could have benefited from the prior practice; based on the rates of restoration
in Florida under the prior policy, 100,000 citizens likely would have gotten their rights restored by 2012. Other voting
restrictions passed this year that are not included in this estimate.


Then we have another ‘proof’

The most rigorous study on voter ID and turnout to date, recently published in the leading political science methodology
journal, found that stricter voter ID requirements depress turnout, particularly among less educated and lower income
populations. See R. Michael Alvarez et al., An Empirical Bayes Approach to Estimating Ordinal Treatment Effects
26-30 (2010), available at http://brennan.3cdn.net/a5782740e4185414a8_snm6bhfwg.pdf.

And in that same paragraph is slipped in:
Some studies suggest
that voter ID laws have only a small or no effect on turnout. See Jason Mycoff et al., The Empirical Effects of Voter-ID Laws


So, one study says it does and others say it has small or no effects… Of course you must pick to only use what side you want to see.

Ok… That’s enough for one post.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 164
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/27/2012 7:15:20 PM
Florida’s New Election Law Blunts Voter Drives

By MICHAEL COOPER and JO CRAVEN McGINTY


Florida, which is expected to be a vital swing state once again in this year’s presidential election, is enrolling fewer new voters than it did four years ago as prominent civic organizations have suspended registration drives because of what they describe as onerous restrictions imposed last year by Republican state officials.

The state’s new elections law — which requires groups that register voters to turn in completed forms within 48 hours or risk fines, among other things — has led the state’s League of Women Voters to halt its efforts this year. Rock the Vote, a national organization that encourages young people to vote, began an effort last week to register high school students around the nation — but not in Florida, over fears that teachers could face fines. And on college campuses, the once-ubiquitous folding tables piled high with voter registration forms are now a rarer sight.

Florida, which reminded the nation of the importance of every vote in the disputed presidential election in 2000 when it reported that George W. Bush had won by 537 votes, is now seeing a significant drop-off in new voter registrations. In the months since its new law took effect in July, 81,471 fewer Floridians have registered to vote than during the same period before the 2008 presidential election, according to an analysis of registration data by The New York Times. All told, there are 11.3 million voters registered in the state.

It is difficult to say just how much of the decrease is due to the restrictions in the law, and how much to demographic changes, a lack of enthusiasm about politics or other circumstances, including the fact that there was no competitive Democratic presidential primary this year. But new registrations dropped sharply in some areas where the voting-age population has been growing, the analysis found, including Miami-Dade County, where they fell by 39 percent, and Orange County, where they fell by a little more than a fifth. Some local elections officials said that the lack of registration drives by outside groups has been a factor in the decline.

In Volusia County, where new registrations dropped by nearly a fifth compared with the same period four years ago, the supervisor of elections, Ann McFall, said that she attributed much of the change to the new law. “The drop-off is our League of Women Voters, our five universities in Volusia County, none of which are making a concentrated effort this year,” Ms. McFall said.

Florida’s law — which is being challenged in court by civic groups and, in counties covered by the Voting Rights Act, the Justice Department — is one of more than a dozen that states have passed in recent years that have made it harder to vote by requiring voters to show photo identification at polls, reducing early voting periods or making it more difficult to register.

Republicans, who have passed nearly all of the new voting laws, say the restrictions are needed to prevent fraud. Democrats note that such fraud almost never happens, and say that the laws will make harder for young people and members of minorities, who tend to support Democrats, to vote.

Chris Cate, the communications director for Florida’s Department of State, which oversees the state’s Division of Elections, questioned how much of the decline in registrations should be attributed to the new law, noting that four years ago Floridians were registering to vote in both Democratic and Republican presidential primaries, and gearing up for a constitutional amendment about property taxes, which generated interest and enthusiasm. “To suggest the new elections law had a greater impact on voter registration than the election ballot itself is a leap of logic,” Mr. Cate said.

The law in Florida, which was passed by a Republican-controlled Legislature and signed into law by Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, also reduces the number of early voting days in the state. While the effects of those changes may not be seen until the fall, the new restrictions on voter registrations are already being felt — as Sabu L. Williams, the president of the Okaloosa County Branch of the N.A.A.C.P., discovered this year when he registered some voters during the Martin Luther King’s Birthday weekend.

Mr. Williams’s group registered two voters on the Sunday of the three-day weekend, and noted the time, as required by the law: 2:15 p.m. and 2:20 p.m. When the local elections office reopened on Tuesday, Jan. 17, the group handed the forms in. They were stamped as received at 3:53 p.m.

This resulted in a warning letter from Secretary of State Kurt S. Browning, who noted that the state can levy fines of $50 for each late application, with an annual cap of $1,000 in fines per group. “In your case, although the supervisor’s office was closed on Monday, Jan. 16, the 48-hour period ended for the two applications on Jan. 17 at 2:15 p.m. and 2:20 p.m.; therefore, the applications were untimely under the law,” Mr. Browning wrote. The letter said that “any future violation of the third-party voter registration law may result in my referral of the matter to the attorney general for an enforcement action.”

Mr. Williams said he could not believe it. “We’re out here trying to register voters, and I’m being threatened for doing it because we missed the time limit by around an hour — and we’re doing it on the first business day they were open!” he said. But he vowed to continue registering voters.

Mr. Cate, the spokesman for the Department of State, said the letter was meant to inform Mr. Williams of the law, which he said was a typical response when the state believed that someone had been unaware of the law and violated it unintentionally. Deirdre Macnab, the president of the League of Women Voters of Florida, filed suit with other civic groups to overturn the law. “Basically our volunteers, after 72 years of registering voters problem-free, would now need an attorney on one hand and a secretary on the other to even attempt to navigate these new laws,” said Ms. Macnab, whose organization has sued the state over past restrictions.

Several states place restrictions on groups that register voters. The law in Florida, which is among the strictest in the nation, is similar to one New Mexico passed in 2005, which also imposes penalties for failing to meet a 48-hour deadline for handing in forms. Civic groups challenged the New Mexico law in court and lost. Since the law passed, census data shows, the percentage of New Mexicans who are registered has fallen.

Lee Rowland, a lawyer at the Brennan Center for Justice, one of the groups handling the lawsuit for the civic organizations, said they were challenging the Florida law on First Amendment grounds, arguing that speaking to voters and registering them is protected speech. The state took issue with what it called the “pervasive sky-is-falling hyperbole” of the civic groups, and said that the law was intended to make sure voters had their registrations handed in quickly and that outside groups did not overwhelm local elections officials by delivering piles of registration forms all at once.

Last Friday, on the anniversary of the passage of the 26th Amendment, which gave 18-year-olds the right to vote, Rock the Vote opened its national program to educate and register high school students, though not in Florida. “It’s a real shame,” said Heather Smith, the president of Rock the Vote, which joined the lawsuit. “We just cannot put those high school teachers at risk.”


This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: March 27, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/us/restrictions-on-voter-registration-in-florida-have-groups-opting-out.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 165
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/27/2012 7:42:13 PM
hahahaha

I'm really sorry but I see the above article as evidence of effectiveness. The only thing it proves is that there is no longer proselytizing votes.




It’s a real shame,” said Heather Smith, the president of Rock the Vote, which joined the lawsuit. “We just cannot put those high school teachers at risk.”


It isn't the teacher’s jobs. And I could have sworn that you had stated as 100% that teachers do not get involved in the election process on another thread when I had an anecdotal story that my daughters school had teachers passing out flyers to parents as they picked up their kids.

Now the fine seems a bit harsh but it does the job of stopping a flood of activists who have virtually no real interest in anything other than being activist from knocking the wheels out just for fun. You have a right to vote. There is no requirement that you do so OR that you vote other than your conscience. So what they did was turn it around and basically said, you have the right to vote. Take it seriously.

So, your story is a success case.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 166
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/28/2012 10:27:32 AM

And I could have sworn that you had stated as 100% that teachers do not get involved in the election process on another thread when I had an anecdotal story that my daughters school had teachers passing out flyers to parents as they picked up their kids.


You really think that 100% of any one group does anything 100% of the time? Though sometime that is the goal.


Now the fine seems a bit harsh but it does the job of stopping a flood of activists who have virtually no real interest in anything other than being activist from knocking the wheels out just for fun. You have a right to vote. There is no requirement that you do so OR that you vote other than your conscience. So what they did was turn it around and basically said, you have the right to vote. Take it seriously.


Are you speaking about the democrat activists that try to get out the vote or are you speaking of republican activists that get out the vote???
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 167
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/28/2012 11:15:55 AM

Are you speaking about the democrat activists that try to get out the vote or are you speaking of republican activists that get out the vote???


All. Tired of having the elections turned into a circus by last minute hyperactivists bent on causing confusion and drumming up false support for causes. You would think that people that subscribed to reason and logic would support a balanced, reasoned and thoughtful vote... not the vote of the loudest mouth piece.

What good comes out of registering thousands of people on the days leading up to an election? Is that how a reasonable law is passed? No, it’s how activist manipulate the system.

They can still spend the entire year promoting the responsibility of the voting process. That doesn't change. The only thing this shows is that the voting process and how the countries election process works and how laws are passed had nothing to do with what the organizations were about. They were about changing outcomes.

I wouldn't doubt if the laws get challenged. That’s part of the process also.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 168
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/28/2012 11:33:01 AM
I see since I was last here we have more blah blah blah.

Cited stories, from republican states, hardly represent balanced reporting. I'm sure you guys wouldn't have a problem with stories we cite from Rachel or Ed, or maybe some liberal bastions where they say they have no problems.

The Alabama "democrat", is an interesting case in point. Have any of you visited down here in the land of dixie? Perhaps some of you should experience it, it's values and political ideology before citing them as 'fair and balanced'.

I see we also had another embracer of the "poor shouldn't vote" mentality, one I'm sure would embrace a return to slavery. The poor for many, from what I'm hearing on here are just something to scrape off the bottom of your shoes, ooohhh except when there is a war and you need someone else to fight it.

We have again moved away from some issues. A perfectly healthy 18 or older college student with out of state ID, residing at college, with valid forms of ID, from other states, for one.

Funny all this reminds me of the aftermath of shrub vs gore. STOP THE COUNT, was the rallying cry of the republicans. It didn't matter much to them, that they might eliminate legitimate votes then. Ohhh no, it was shut it down now, the he11 with counting all the votes.

All this is, is a ruse, to avoid the embarassment of another contineous count. If you eliminate or suppress the vote of those who won't support your agenda, you will not have to worry or be embarassed by challenges and recounts.

"but it does the job of stopping a flood of activists"

Ahh yes, that should read stop the activists 'we don't like' or don't line up with our agenda. If you're with us, by all means do what you want.

The problem was, is and will be the same. Voter turnout is never as high as it could be. Even given that, the republicans will never have more than a 35-40% share of the registered population, in this country. Less if you take into account some of the issues they stand on this year.

Their major hope is a poor economy will cause some democrats and independents, to vote a change in who will run the country, for their pocketbook. Even though it was shrub and the republicants, who created this massive economic mess, that will take years to dig out from. Even now, in the face of the economic crisis in America, we have that idiot from Wisconsin, putting forth massive tax cuts for the wealthy, as a way to stimulate the economy. Hhahahaha!! A simple case of fool me once, thinking at best.

Bottom line is it will be a close election, and voter suppression may help them carry the day. The problem will be how much the public allows the republican dirty trick squad, to sway the election, pure and simple.

VVVVV Sorry Paul, shrub really screwed this one. It's the closest I've seen to the actual depression. Now if others don't understand that, let me lay it out for you.

The depression started in 1929, FDR was elected in 1932, by 1940 we still had many remnants of that dip in our economy. The only thing that got us out of it was WW2, war production and the amount of our soldiers killed ended it.

I'm sorry that our society has evolved into the nano second approach. Everyone wants things to end NOW. Economies don't function that way. A big piece of the puzzle is housing, it was a cornerstone of our current economy going into this mess. It will be 5 or more years till that bottoms out, no matter WHO is in the white house.

Sorry if you guys are not happy with the progress Obama has made, but since you want to blame him for the current place we are at. I think it fair as well to give credit where credit is due. Shrub was at the helm for "8 YEARS" and as such put us behind the 8 ball. I don't think we sweep all that under the carpet and give the republicans a do over, 4 years later.VVVVVVVVV
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 169
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/28/2012 12:13:48 PM
Let me just put this here again. This is your requirement as a good liberal. A mandate of proselyting. You must covert those faithless fools

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/elert/right_wing_judicial_activism_fault_of_liberal_tactics/

Op-ed argues that liberals relied too heavily on the U.S. Supreme Court to promote change and ignored other venues when necessary. Courts successfully operated as a “catalyst” for change in previous years when social movements were paired with litigation. However, the op-ed argues that movements today “divorce themselves from this necessary element,” causing a “liberal dependence upon the legal system.” Instead, liberals should engage in activism “on the ground” and avoid bringing political cases to the courts. Although convincing a panel of justices to rule in accordance with one’s platform is easier than convincing the public, the writer argues that “this should be no excuse for liberal activists.”


That just makes me want more rules around voting. ID requirements as well as bans on same day registration and
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 170
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/28/2012 12:54:04 PM

What good comes out of registering thousands of people on the days leading up to an election? Is that how a reasonable law is passed? No, it’s how activist manipulate the system.


I am not a fan of same day registration...and I'm an equal opponent of 30 day waiting periods...somewhere inbetween seems reasonable...I'm not really sure what I think of people helping other people to register to vote...I haven't really thought much about it...on one hand it's does seem to garner voters for the cause of the "registration activist"...on the other it does help people become part of one of their countries most cherished citizen activities...all citizens should vote...of course, people get appathy with the bums we put up for office...both sides...and voting often becomes a vote against rather than a vote for.

Still, somewhere between requiring people to show multiple amounts of documentation to obtain a voter ID and same day registering there could be a happy medium/compromise...now wouldn't that be a change.
 shadow939
Joined: 12/1/2009
Msg: 171
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:18:24 AM
My state Pa., just signed this into March 14th. It is needed, its not voter supression. And believe it or not its not based off of illegal immigrants, but our own nations need to lie, and cheat. When you have a voting district, that turned out 133% out in 2008, when max is 100% you have severe issues. This laws makes sure with your address, city, and zip code you are voting once in your district, and not numorous throughout other districts.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 172
view profile
History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:38:44 AM
In the state of Indiana, ID cards are fee to those of voting age that do not possess a drivers license.
From what I have read, any state that passes the Voter ID law will also provide free ID's for those of voting age that are in need of one to vote.

So stop using the "poverty" and "Democrats are poor and can't affor an ID" as your lame argements here.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 173
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:52:30 AM
Actually, nobody is saying that Democrats are poor. People are saying that poor people will be disenfranchised. Any measure that excludes a passport as valid ID is obviously not targeting poor people though. International travellers as a rule aren't at the bottom of the economic scale.

And that's nice for Indiana residents, but it's not true that other states have made the same concessions.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 174
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/29/2012 10:33:42 AM

And that's nice for Indiana residents


With all the state budget cuts and service reductions Indiana must be bucking what is normal...here in Connecticut, with all the reducions in DMV services, there are now 2 places to obtain an ID card in the eastern half of the state...to get one-one must get in line for a number, get in line to process the application (with the numberfrom the first line), and then have your picture taken (a third line)...my normal experience at the DMV is an hour...and I know everyone.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 175
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/29/2012 11:49:29 AM

One hour............ poor baby................ I feel so bad.


PK...you really are having trouble reading english...I also said there are only 2 places on the eastern side of CT (east of the Connecticut River) to get an ID card...I used to think you were pretty savy with your aritimatic skills, but they seem to be in default as well.
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