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 nokia999
Joined: 1/25/2012
Msg: 114
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?Page 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
^^No, because that takes away their civil rights. The civil right to live off welfare.
The govt brought in a new rule here - that teenage and young women who fall pregnant and automatically apply for a pension (like it's a career option), have to now complete their final year at school before they get the money.
It really p1sses them off.
As far as the OP and his predicament goes: take responsibility for your actions. Stop blaming anyone else. Grow up.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 115
view profile
History
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/20/2012 5:48:34 PM

My goal would be to prevent a mixed family.


Not only do you have a distorted sense of friendship, but of family as well. You call this woman a friend, but she doesn't even know your last name? You sleep with people who you don't trust enough to give your last name to, yet you trust them to ensure that you do not become an unwanted father?! Even worse, you would be wiling to enter in to a "real" relationship with such a person, in the name of family?!?!

Does anyone else see something extremely disturbing here?
 ontario_woman
Joined: 4/3/2005
Msg: 116
view profile
History
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/20/2012 5:52:44 PM

Does anyone else see something extremely disturbing here?


Most of us do.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 117
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/20/2012 7:10:48 PM
While I understand the point being made here- this is where an inherent and inescapable unfairness comes into play.
If the father can choose to terminate his responsibility-then that creates a potential for either the birth of a child that will be significantly-if not completely-dependent on support from social welfare programs-or what is essentially forcing a woman into abortion. What if that goes against her personal beliefs and ethics. Even if she dumps the child somewhere under a "safe haven" law-or gives it up for adoption-where do you suppose the money is coming from ,to take care of that child until a permanent placement occurs? Yep-out of taxpayer wallets.


Inherent and inescapable unfairness already exist. No one mentioned any kind of safety nets or social programs. You simply do not bring a child into this world if you're unable to support it. With current birth control and post impregnation options it is inconceivable to 'make a mistake' of conceiving a child. This isn't 1911. No logical or sane woman will have a child unless she wants to. The only incentive to have a child against fathers will is to entrap a man and collect child support from him or the government. (not to say idiots does not deserve it) Personal believes and ethics should be great incentive to keep seed out of child factory or not have sex at all. With overpopulation, collapsing infrastructure and overtaxed resources there got to be some changes. Not to mention current system is a pinpoint of hostility, mistrust and all out war between genders. Blind breeding needs to stop.
 jmark4
Joined: 7/3/2011
Msg: 118
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/20/2012 9:35:49 PM
this is why FWB doesnt work. who cares about the mindless adults doing the mindless sex. And who does unprotected sex anymore with so many being promiscuous?

Talk to the person. Communicate with them.
 TKO38
Joined: 3/6/2012
Msg: 119
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 3:29:52 AM
I disagree, fwb works just fine if the two are adults who make proper decisions. It is obvious that he and the young lady are not adults. She doesnt even know his last name. That should of been something that stopped her from jumping into bed with him. However it also should be that if he doesnt trust her why is he sleeping with her. And again, birthcontrol.
 TKO38
Joined: 3/6/2012
Msg: 120
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 3:38:17 AM
easy solution: dont sleep around, dont sleep with a girl that is sleeping with you and another man, if you are gonna have sex we have a great invention the condom and it works great when the woman takes the pill.

Pretty easy, but for some reason so many people dont do these little things.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 121
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:40:49 AM
Mesg#128-
I do not disagree with many of your points! But...

No one mentioned any kind of safety nets or social programs.


Well, these things DO exist. There have been "assistance to families/children" programs around for a long time. They initially came about to protect families where the breadwinner had died or abandoned the family.


You simply do not bring a child into this world if you're unable to support it. With current birth control and post impregnation options it is inconceivable to 'make a mistake' of conceiving a child.


Well-it certainly OUGHT to be "inconceivable"-but right here in this thread we have a genuine case of that having happened!

Of course we could simply say-so let the woman turn tricks to support her b*st*rd, let the kid die-let it be put into some kind of government holding pen-and if it isn't adopted in a few months-euthanize it like an unwanted puppy or kitten. Does this sound like a good plan to you?

Perhaps we should not only make laws that permit permanent disposal of unplanned babies-maybe we should criminalize out of wedlock conceptions-jail the woman and the baby daddy?

Yes- I am well aware that there are socioeconomic substrata where-as another poster pointed out-concieving a child is seen as a fairly valid "career option"-and it sounds as if some political jurisdictions are trying to put some controls on that phenomenon. However, to simply do away with any form of financial protection for unplanned babies,either also victimizes genuine misfortune-or gives some human entity power to make judgements of who is "deserving" of financial protection.

Not to drag this topic off in another direction-but the fact is-all we know here is what the OP has chosen to tell us. How can we be sure that this really WAS just a fwb/semi-casual sex?
How do we know that he didn't pull the same trick that a guy pulled on my younger sis-in-law-claiming to be "sterile"?
How do we know this other "fwb" guy isn't something that the OP is pulling out of his ass?
Or should we simply create some laws that would allow political jurisdictions and law enforcement to "investigate" paternity of every out-of-wedlock child that is in need of a safety net?
Want your taxpayer dollars spent for the police to go out, pick up an unmarried pregnant womens' alleged sex partners and take DNA swabs-so that paternity tests can be run at the childs' birth and a bill sent to the supplier of half that babies' DNA for past, present and future financial support?

Oh, hey-I don't disagree-if we put in place enough official legal remedies for the issue of "illegitimate" babies to take the place of social/cultural standards that USED to exert a measure of control-I'm all for it. If my taxpayer dollars go to protecting unplanned babies from dying because their parental units are IDIOTS-I've got enough human compassion to recognize that as the lesser evil.


No logical or sane woman will have a child unless she wants to.


Excuse me? Are we not actually discussing a case where a couple of PEOPLE of dubious logic and sanity have conceived a child?
Now- the OP has not made any definitive statement confirming that he has in fact been hailed into court to disprove paternity-but it does sound like he is worried about the possibility of this happening.


Blind breeding needs to stop.


I don't disagree with you, but we don't live in a perfect world and I for one cannot see letting death by extreme poverty be the fate of children concieved by people of limited intelligence and financial means. The sex drive is a very powerful urge-I'd like to hear other ideas about how to control "blind breeding" other than socioeconomic euthanasia for unplanned children?


Personal believes and ethics should be great incentive to keep seed out of child factory or not have sex at all.
I don't disagree with you-but again-sex is a powerful drive.


With overpopulation, collapsing infrastructure and overtaxed resources there got to be some changes. Not to mention current system is a pinpoint of hostility, mistrust and all out war between genders.


So-whats YOUR solution,other than socioeconomic euthanasia of unplanned children? Should young men and women be put under some kind of forced birth control until they marry? Should premarital /extramarital sex be made a criminal offense?
Should laws be put in place that prohibit sexual relations between anyone but married couples?


In 18 or so years this child will grow up to be a very angry young person.This could be prevented,but childish foot stamping and screams of "not fair" by it's halfwit,and lackadaisical parents,will rob this child of any chance it ever had.


No(and please understand I am being sarcastic here!)-if we simply remove the social vehicles that provide basic economic protection to unplanned children, and let economic euthanasia take care of those children whose mothers are not financially capable of fully supporting them-these children won't live long enough to grow up and be anything.
Blind breeding has got to stop-dontcha see?(end of sarcasm)


I disagree, fwb works just fine if the two are adults who make proper decisions.

Precisely. There are tons of people who have FwBs or other non-marital relationships who do not birth unplanned and unwanted children. Unfortunately-unless we enact laws that criminalize sex outside of a body of rules and parameters-we are going to have unexpected conception events.

Believe me-I am 100% supportive of many of the "don'ts" and common-sense precautions mentioned here.
But I don't see how we can simply pretend that unplanned conceptions don't ever happen, and that there isn't enough opposition out there to ever make coerced abortions or socioeconomic euthanasia an acceptable "solution"-things like this are going to come up.
Cindy O
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 122
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:42:28 AM
Mesg#128-
I do not disagree with many of your points! But...


Jesus, LadyC4. No wonder you dont comment on much; you don't comment, you "Novel-ise"



Oh, dont mind me. Bored and trolling around the forums
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 123
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:57:35 AM
As I have mentioned before- I have reasons for posting the way I do and explaining them is not germane to the topic.

Another factor is my background in debate and forensic public speaking competition-where you can't just make a statement and expect it to be accepted as Gospel-you have to back it up.

I understand the idealism of some of the posters here-but having also spent some time in the social work field, and simply having been an adult human in contact with a variety of other humans over the last 40-odd years-my idealism has been tempered with (sometimes grudging) compassion.

That compassion keeps me from accepting such( as a completely practical matter) "solutions" as coerced abortion or socioeconomic euthanasia for unplanned children.

I think the OP needs to get his ass in gear-get tested-and if he is in fact the father of this child, he needs to man up and share the responsibility for the work of his d*ck.
Cindy O
 JoseMadre
Joined: 1/9/2012
Msg: 124
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:28:21 AM
This isn't rocket science. Have the paternity test done and find out. If the child is yours, man up. If not, be more careful in the future.
 friendshipcomesfirst
Joined: 5/19/2011
Msg: 126
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 3:38:08 PM
Wow... this must be the first woman you've ever slept with... "Unless the father gives me reason to" is code for," I want nothing in writing or court order for the next five years while you give me everything I ask for... When you get fed up, I'll throw a fit and nail you with crazy demands!"

This GIRL is not your wife! Playing nice does not mean avoiding the courthouse... you get EVERYTHING in writing... exactly what has to be paid, exactly what visitation will be, who gets to claim the child on taxes.... EVERYTHING

And for the record, unless you have a SIGNED reciept with the words "Child Support" on it, anything and everything you hand her is a gift... always get reciepts... and diapers and food are not child support.

In case you missed this statement...

She said she is not going on public assistance, and wants the man to take care of his

She plans on living off of child support... she planned this pregnancy. Get court orders, get them FAST if you are the dad!
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 128
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 4:40:52 PM

Wow... this must be the first woman you've ever slept with... "Unless the father gives me reason to" is code for," I want nothing in writing or court order for the next five years while you give me everything I ask for... When you get fed up, I'll throw a fit and nail you with crazy demands!"

This GIRL is not your wife! Playing nice does not mean avoiding the courthouse... you get EVERYTHING in writing... exactly what has to be paid, exactly what visitation will be, who gets to claim the child on taxes.... EVERYTHING

And for the record, unless you have a SIGNED reciept with the words "Child Support" on it, anything and everything you hand her is a gift... always get reciepts... and diapers and food are not child support.

In case you missed this statement...


She said she is not going on public assistance, and wants the man to take care of his

She plans on living off of child support... she planned this pregnancy. Get court orders, get them FAST if you are the dad!


Absolutely correct!!!

You sound very young and naive. Let me give you a little dose of truth. Those government buildings your talking about are fine if you want to find out paternity. Once you find out the paternity I strongly suggest you get a lawyer. Those government buildings claim to be all about the best interests of the children. In my experiences this is not true at all. When my ex walked in she stomped her little foot and said "give it cause I want it". Took two seconds to set it all up. Less than 2 weeks later they were drawing it directly from my check. When there was a custody change a couple months later. They told me I needed to get a lawyer. WTF? Now it's been a year that not only am I not receiving any support but I'm still paying support. Plus I have a lawyer.lmao Best interests of the child my a$$.

Here's the one thing I don't agree with. How does someone fully support themselves on child support? Even at the max allowable child support you would starve. That's how I ended up with custody pretty much. Theres no way. I agree that you need to have all your ducks in a row. If you "play nice" as in no courts then several years later she may go in and say "he didn't give me a dime". Then you get hit for all sorts of back child support. Now your really screwed. I know people who spend the rest of their lives paying back child support. When they are retired and dead they still have a balance that was unpaid. The interest is unreal. Best to protect yourself now rather than be sorry latter.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 129
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 5:10:30 PM
Lets' start with a simple question that I don't believe has been addressed...

This woman-OP-if you know-does she have gainful employment? Is the nature of her employment such that being pregnant isn't going to cost her her job? If the answer to either or both of these questions is "no"-then she is going to have to go on assistance. As the previous poster pointed out- court-ordered child support alone is not going to be adequate. Now-the way it works here in MI-to the best of my knowledge(which is a few years old)-is if a dependent child is being supported by the state-the STATE will be the one collecting child support payments and they will go to the state to help defray the cost of the subsistence allowance given to the child and it's mother. With some of the new caps on the length of time that an individual or a family can draw assistance-that may only be for a couple of years. If the child's mother finds gainful employment, that is STILL not going to let the father off the hook-he will be required to continue paying support. As the previous poster mentioned- in THEORY-if the father takes custodial responsibility it should cause the MOTHER to be responsible to make child support payments. However-there may be stipulations in the jurisdictions' child support statutes that require CS payments to continue despite the custody change-depending on how much money -or subsidies-the jurisdiction paid out to the previous custodial parent. In the case of a custodial transfer from mother to father-if the mother earns significantly less-the jurisdiction may not enforce her paying CS.

I agree with the previous poster here, OP-don't go by what is said to you by this woman-get legal counsel and make sure everything is documented.

And quit having unprotected sex unless you WANT to be a father.
Oh-and one other thought-

which means she wasn't mining my name for CS fraud.
IF the child is yours, it's not CS "fraud".


maybe in some cases it shouldn't be a choice... my cat's didn't have a say in the matter.

Nor did mine, it took quite a while for him to forgive me(I'm not sure he's ever completely forgiven me)...perhaps that's why he used to leave live mice in the bathtub?
Cindy O
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 130
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 5:18:15 PM

....this has happened with with another woman before...


OP: This same situation has happened for you with another woman before, and it appears you believe it is the woman's responsibility to make sure conception doesn't happen. The only way for you to be certain conception doesn't happen is to get a vasectomy. You are a baby making machine and apparently have sex with women who are not even friends with: what kind of friend doesn't even know your last name? This has happened twice to you now. It's time to man up and get yourself fixed so you don't impregnant the whole neighborhood like an uncut tomcat.


While I don't like the idea, maybe in some cases it shouldn't be a choice... my cat's didn't have a say in the matter.

They, of course, don't have the brains to even consider the consequences (nor really have to be responsible for them anyways) of prowling the neighborhood looking for females in heat to impregnate... the OP on the other hand ... wait, never mind.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 131
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 5:38:03 PM
vtecturbo- You sound so cold. The possibility that you may be a father doesn't seem to matter to you. You keep referring to the child as "the kid". It's a baby.
This baby did not ask to be born, it has done nothing wrong.
You admit you have had this happen before and yet your post makes it sound like you had nothing to do with the situation.
If you are going to insist on random hook ups, use protection! one plus one often becomes three when you are careless. The man is NOT off the hook when an unplanned pregnancy occurs, it takes two, so drop the tone that it's the woman's fault. GROW UP!
Children are helpless and innocent. Please get tested to see if you are the father. You don't have to be with the mother. You can just talk to her about visits and support (if you are the dad).
One of the many things that has gone wrong with today's children is the problem of absent fathers.
If this child is yours, love it, be there. It will mean more to the future of the child and your own maturity and self worth than you know.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 132
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 8:15:03 PM
ladyc4 I would venture to say that a majority of the time. With maximum child support plus government assistance one could not provide proper support for their children. Chances are these people that claim to be doing this are lieing to the government and have a job that they don't let the government know about. It's just to little money to do what needs to be done.


I'm a very fortunate man. I am a very good provider. There are several men that are in my position that cannot support their children because of the same situation I am in. Government agencies are just not as willing to help men as much as they are willing to help women. Several of my friends have to go to church organizations and beg for food.

It is not lawful here for a man to pay child support when he is the custodial parent. Nor is it lawful anywhere else that I know of. The reason this is happening is because of the sexism taken place in many government offices right now. In reality child support is for children hence the word child in the name. How is the child being supported if money is being taken from the household the child is in and given to the non custodial parents household where the child isn't?


When a woman can go to a government agency and get assistance so easily and she doesn't even pay taxes and I a man who is a tax paying citizen go to the same government agency for assistance and get treated so unfair and unequally there is a serious issue with our government. There are many men who cannot afford an attorney as I have been able to. They can't afford to support the child living in their house plus 20% of their income to pay child support plus a lawyer. Something has to give. Some of the lucky ones where able to find another employer and hide from the attorney general long enough to get a lawyer.

Here's the real kicker to the whole thing. They have acknowledged that as of April 1st of last year I no longer owe child support and have given me credit. At the same time they are still pulling child support from my check and putting it in hold in order to make sure it is all "sorted out". That's right as of April 1st of this year this would of been going on with their knowledge for a whole year. Somehow I bet if I had a high pitched voice and a vagina it would of been fixed in at most a month and I bet a million dollars I wouldn't of had to have a lawyer to do it either. It's wrong and it's not only hurting dad's and the children but the mothers as well. Once they "sort it out" they will decide that the mom owes all kinds of back child support at an interest rate. Then because she has issues of abuse and stipulations that she must be current on child support in order to get supervised visitation. It will affect her relationship and access to the child.

This is just wrong wrong wrong. God Im so frustrated. The entire system is geared towards women and ends up screwing everyone especially the children. Just disgusted with it.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 134
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:15:13 PM

Yeah tomorrow I will actually view the child. I think I will choose the next step on what I think. If I think its my kid I will pay for a home DNA test. If I don't think so then I will take a government issued test. The only bad part is this helps the other man out if I pay for a home test and and its not mine. He gets to find out for free. At my expense.


WOW your really young and immature. Let me ask you something. Let's say he already took one and it's not his. Would you not bother taking one? You would be a fool if you didn't. How do either of you know there isn't a third guy? Trust me no matter what your test says he should take one anyway and probably will. Shut up and take your test dude.
 Arata_na_Yoake
Joined: 1/25/2012
Msg: 135
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/21/2012 9:56:34 PM
Wow man, it's just money. If I were you, I'd be more worried that if the kid did turn out to be yours then you left the mother of your child to handle her pregnancy alone; and this is coming from someone who doesn't have a high opinion of said mother.

As far as your original question goes, you haven't done enough. Quite honestly, I think the majority of us would agree that you sending out a few texts equates to you doing nothing.

LoL I cracked up when you thought doing the tests was white-knighting...wow.

Talk about setting the bar low.
 nokia999
Joined: 1/25/2012
Msg: 136
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:11:50 AM
How do you think you're going to know whether a new-born is your baby? Do you think it's going to hold out its arms and call "Daddy"?
Are you expecting it to look like you? It could be yours and not look like you at all.
Forget the money. You're even begrudging the few bucks you have to spend for a DIY home test to find out if you're a father. How did one so young get to be such a stinge?
Is that why you didn't use a condom? Because you didn't want to pay for one?
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 137
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:30:45 AM
Well, these things DO exist. There have been "assistance to families/children" programs around for a long time. They initially came about to protect families where the breadwinner had died or abandoned the family.
Yes where initially both parents agreed to have children.

unplanned babies
There is no such thing. You can not go 'ooooopps! I had no idea I'm pregnant' for 23 weeks.

Of course we could simply say-so let the woman turn tricks to support her b*st*rd

There is existing and undeniable choice. To get pregnant or not to get pregnant. To have a child or not to have a child. The ramifications of that choice are obvious to most capable humans. It is very very simple. Redundancy, emotional misdirection and content volume does not dismiss that fact.

So-whats YOUR solution
In capitalist society the major intensive and driving force is finance. You do not buy a house you can not afford. Same concept with children.
 Arata_na_Yoake
Joined: 1/25/2012
Msg: 139
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 6:21:34 AM
You've made point 1 numerous times now; we get it you don't want to exert any effort if it's not yours. My point was, how would you feel if the baby is yours and you've basically been of no assistance until you found out? By the way, I'm doubting whether this woman was ever your friend to begin with. If she was, a decent human being would at least help her with the essentials - whether you were sleeping together or not.
 Meems919
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 140
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 6:22:29 AM
she wont even be useful for what she previously was.


Man, that's scum.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 141
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 6:36:54 AM
That is why I refused to do anything for the pregnancy, and as some posters noted my anti-single mother history; it's not because I assume the woman has a past for having kids, its because it's someone else's kid.


I've stayed out of the discussion up to now, but this is some pretty twisted and selfish logic.

If you have sex with a woman, presumably you care about her as a person. You should help her with her pregnancy for that reason alone. This spiteful attitude toward other men's children is bizarre. It shouldn't even be a consideration.

For karma's sake, it would be cool if the child was yours. However, for the woman's and the child's sake, it would be better if it wasn't yours.

To answer your question- no, you haven't done enough. You haven't done a damn thing.
 icallbs
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 142
So, she had a kid, have I done enough?
Posted: 3/22/2012 7:34:10 AM
wow, what a prince you seem to be, OP. I hope you warn any woman you may have sex with that even if you are married to her, you're going to have any resulting child DNA tested. Wow.

I am baffled that there are people (men, and women presumably) who have so little regard for their fellow humans that they would hold and espouse the views that you seem to be so steeped in. I can only imagine what you were/are telling these women you use for sex, er I mean FWB/F*ckbuddies... I can't really imagine a women with good self-respect wanting to be used, essentially, as a life-sized object with which to pleasure yourself.

You could look at that baby all day long and never "see" whether it's yours or not, no matter what races are involved. Babies get only half their DNA from each parent. It's not always readily apparent that the child "belongs" to either of the parents. And your own denial runs so deep, it's likely you would only "see" things that would tend to reinforce your own desired outcome. Let's hope you're right and the kid is not yours. Or at least let's hope the mother has the sense to insulate the child from your views on how to approach and treat other people in this life.
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