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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Nothing "unphysical" exists      Home login  
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 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 74
Nothing unphysical existsPage 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
@A_GENT
yes, yes, yes, no, yes, depends on your definition, yes, yes and yes. AND every one that exists are words describing something physical, a physical process, event, arrangement, etc. ;)
 earthlingsRevenge
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 75
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/13/2012 8:46:06 AM
This thread is going on and on with no end in sight.
Here is my last post and I would like to present my thought on the subject and nothing else.

Our first reaction to this thread is "It can't be true, everything is physical???" But when you take one non-physical at a time, and trace backward, you'd find something physical attached to it.

a) I still think MSG #5 (Lynn) is right, even if there is anything non-physical our sensory systems prevent us
from receiving the signals.

b) In macroscopic world, everything is physical and measureable. All our non-physical experiences must have physical sources. . MATH falls in the same group as Laws of Nature.

c) In microscopic world, until we know more, everything seem to be non-physical.

Like many I also enjoyed others comments.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 76
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/13/2012 3:27:13 PM
"""a) I still think MSG #5 (Lynn) is right, even if there is anything non-physical our sensory systems prevent us
from receiving the signals.""

Maybe true, maybe not.

b) In macroscopic world, everything is physical and measureable. All our non-physical experiences must have physical sources. . MATH falls in the same group as Laws of Nature.

This has a bunch of different statements in one, hard to comment.

c) In microscopic world, until we know more, everything seem to be non-physical.

False. They're just little physical critters.

"""The argument being put forward seems to be of the form: your perception is generated by things with physical properties, therefore nothing non-physical exists. It's not a valid argument.""

OK, there may be things beyond our perception that are non-physical ........can you suggest some?
 madchemist4you
Joined: 2/19/2012
Msg: 77
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/13/2012 5:03:03 PM
Time does not exist in any physical sense just as length and width do not exist. Time is not an object or thing but a concept. There are no time particals, rays or waves.

There is some small dissagreement on whether photons have mass, though. I believe that it must have some mass even if imperceptable for Einstien's relativity equation to apply.
 madchemist4you
Joined: 2/19/2012
Msg: 78
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/13/2012 5:07:06 PM
According to the laws of physics, everything that exists does so according to such physical laws. If it lies outside the existing laws then it is purely theoretical and cannot at this time be proven to exist.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 79
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History
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/18/2012 10:27:56 PM
'''According to the laws of physics, everything that exists does so according to such physical laws. If it lies outside the existing laws then it is purely theoretical and cannot at this time be proven to exist'''

but whats being provable got to do with whether things exist or not?
 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 80
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/19/2012 9:52:23 AM

'''According to the laws of physics, everything that exists does so according to such physical laws. If it lies outside the existing laws then it is purely theoretical and cannot at this time be proven to exist'''

but whats being provable got to do with whether things exist or not?


This actually gets to the heart of my main point. Except I'll ammend my question a bit. Since we can't prove a negative, I'll take the same position as a proper skeptic would take.

instead of saying "nothing unphysical exists", I'll ask "is there any reason to believe anything unphysical exists?"

Thus allowing for new information to be entertained later if new evidence is discovered. Presently, is there any reason to believe in any notion of an unphysical existence of anything? Is it even a thing?

Thus, the ultimate question, how do we define existence or non existence if it's not the physical properties of such a thing? We all believe some things more than others. We're more likely to believe in the sun than we are superman... at least I hope... otherwise, our opinions probably aren't much good for solving problems or answering other questions. With that in mind, are we less likely to believe in superman than we are that something with no physical qualities at all (which one would expect from something that doesn't exist) exists? If this thread title was "superman does not exist", would there be as much debate as there is here? why? what is the criteria for existing?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 81
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/19/2012 3:36:04 PM

is there any reason to believe anything unphysical exists?


Yes. Unless we are to agree that even "nothing" (non-existence if you prefer) is a physical thing, or that there is no such thing as "nothing" (in which case we have to either ask what lies outside of "existence" (all that exists), or entertain the thought that the universe/multiverse is infinite and everywhere infinitely dense with a physicality that has no "gaps" of "nothingness").

Either "nothing" is a physical thing, or it isn't…What do you contend that it is?
 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 82
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/20/2012 11:07:17 AM

"is there any reason to believe anything unphysical exists? "


Yes. Unless we are to agree that even "nothing" (non-existence if you prefer) is a physical thing, or that there is no such thing as "nothing" (in which case we have to either ask what lies outside of "existence" (all that exists), or entertain the thought that the universe/multiverse is infinite and everywhere infinitely dense with a physicality that has no "gaps" of "nothingness").

Either "nothing" is a physical thing, or it isn't…What do you contend that it is?


JustDukky,

I think you steered the conversation exactly in the right direction. The question of existence/non existence (nothingness) is what must be asked and clarified before we can reach any conclusions to this thread.

So to answer your question, with my view of course,

"Nothing" does NOT exist unless it's used figuratively... in the same wasy that we can say "a glass is empty". It's a false statement because we're only refering to the lack of liquid or any other expected substance the glass was designed to hold. It's not actually empty, as we know. Just filled with something different. something equally physical but probably less dense like air.

Philosophically, lets look at this statement: "Nothing exists". surely that isn't true. i think the idea of actual nothingness gets confused with the figurative one like the empty glass scenario. thus, we assume "nothing" is empty space. However, it's my view that "nothing" is something that is NOT there, measurable in any way, including volume, space it occupies, etc. If something occupies space, has volume, etc, it;s not nothing.

To ask the question "what lies outside of existence" is to completely disregard the meaning of the word exisitence. There IS NO OUTSIDE, unless you're simply refering to anything that does not exist. it's like the idea of life after death. If life continues, then death did not occur. Or at least STAY dead. Can't be dead and have a quality of life at the same time. unless you're refering to spirits and heaven and so on. There's a reason I dont believe those either but one thing's for sure. It's not life as we know it. doesn't involve our bodies.. thus, a different term shoudl be used. Not life.

This is the point of my entire thread. I dont believe "nothing" exists. thus, I dont think the big bang was something coming from nothing. Like everything else that exists, it was something coming from something else different. Something changed. Like an atom into an atomic explosion.

We wont be able to FIND "nothing". it's not there. if we found anything, what we find is a physical quality. takes up space, has energy, or force potential, or mass, or something. Anything that do not have any physicality will not be found in the universe because it's what DOES have physical qualities that define the universe. and also, by definition, if the universe HAD AN OUTSIDE, that would be part of the universe.

see where I'm coming from?
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 83
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History
Nothing unphysical exists
Posted: 5/20/2012 12:09:04 PM
The most abundant thing on this planet is quantified by mess....not mass, and it's called stupidity.
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