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 lovelikewinter
Joined: 9/24/2011
Msg: 2
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
While I am disappointed at your blanket ignorant and useless way of viewing women, I have to agree that there are women who want to say they are equal, yet want to be princesses at the same time. People like Kim K. come to mind. Also, men have to overcome the idea they are the shit just because they have a penis.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 3
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 10:44:01 AM
While I am disappointed at your blanket ignorant and useless way of viewing women, I have to agree that there are women who want to say they are equal, yet want to be princesses at the same time.

So you agree but just want to kick him in the nuts? Steroetypical and old fashioned isnt enough of an indicator that he could be open to differing views? Or is being a woman all the entitlement you need to scratch first and talk sense later?

"But surely, if women want to progress in modern society beyond the scope of this view and 'have it all'. They need to ditch this old fashioned view and take on a new attitude?"

When you already have it all why would you want to change anything?
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 4
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 10:49:55 AM
I don't think men and women having different roles necessarily means they're not equal.

I do despise those women that insist on having "equality" in the workplace, but then insist on having doors opened, chairs pulled out and everything paid for...the princesses you talk of OP.

I've always said that women should value their roles in society, as they always have been. After all, I think being a Mother and keeping the house running is an extremely valuable contribution to society.
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 6
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 12:51:56 PM
Women want equality do they? Those women who champion women-only job applications? Women who want male-only organisations to close but want women-only gyms? Women who push their boobs out to get a job, then claim sexual discrimination when they get fired? Women who talk about domestic violence as if only women are victims when the split of victims is actually 50%? Women who want to assault their husband and when the police turn up have *him* arrested?

There is a common thread among any section of society that claims to want equality...they only want equality when it benefits them, it's actually superiority they want. Sick of being on the bottom deck they want a shot at the top deck.
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 9
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:17:47 PM
Vestan__Pance
I think women should have equal opportunities in the workplace. Best person for the job, no matter if they be man or woman. A persons career shouldn't be limited due to their gender.


That's a fine dream, but regarding the workplace there is one issue that women can't avoid having, and that is the children issue. If you hire a man he is there mon-fri each week. If you hire a woman and she falls pregnant you have to hire someone to cover, and also keep her job open while she is off work with the very real chance that she decides to not come back at all. Women with older children are also more likely to take time off for emergency-type issues.

I know I'll probably be told I'm a sexist misogynist for saying these things, but they are simply unavoidable truths no matter how hard you wish they weren't. Men and women will *never* be truly equal in the work place *shrug*
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 11
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:33:00 PM

shoanadove
shame the father didnt care the same about their kid in this emergency situation


It is a shame...but the rise of the single-parent family is for another thread. However we have to look at the realities rather than the ideal-situations, and these are the realities.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 13
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:51:49 PM

Women with older children are also more likely to take time off for emergency-type issues.


shame the father didnt care the same about their kid in this emergency situation


Whoa.. What emergency situation? This is the internet. It's not real.
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 16
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:09:55 PM

shoanadove
i'm not aware that the parents not being together anymore should have any baring on an "emergency" situation,i would of thought both parents would of wanted to be dealing with that but hey ho


As I said, I'm not going to discuss how things should be in an ideal world as that is not relevant to the debate at hand. The *reality* is that women are more likely to take time off for family-related issues.
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 17
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:12:27 PM
Family related issues/emergencies aside, women will always be the ones to take time off due to pregnancy and birth. There's no way, regardless of how much women fight for their version of equality, that a man can do that for them!

I wonder how many women, if the Father was called, would have their nose put out of joint and have something colourful to say on the matter?!
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 18
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:08:29 PM
you're sh1tting me? since when?

he made a bold statement that women will let work down because of some emergency issue with their child,i'm asking where the father is in this situation as [maybe i'm not getting it here] emergency situation are kind of erm just that and you would think it would be important enough for the father to leave work for too wouldn't you?

christ the women haters on here

Haha.. You cant blame men who only quite recently got power of personal responsibility for their children. Meaning in the past i couldn't even consent to emergency surgery or any kind of medication for my kids.
Its just a fact that that vagina has prospects of its own. Thats not a man thing or an inequality thing. Its a p*ssy thing and you have one.

Oh Plymouth you can have that one too ;)
 ibakecakes
Joined: 11/27/2008
Msg: 20
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:56:27 AM
I'm of the opinion that I treat others how I would like to be treated myself.......I buy inexpensive little gifts for my OH if I see something I know he would enjoy and he does the same for me. I do like manners on a guy, yes it's nice to have the door opened for me but I would also open the doors for others so it goes both ways. As far as work is concerned, I think that if both sexes can do the same job to the same level of ability then they should be paid the same and expect the same rights, but that includes time off for caring for children. My ex and I share the holidays for the children, the larger share is mine as his time off work is restricted whereas I work for myself so therefore that is how IMO it is fair...........I certainly wouldnt expect special treatment just because I am possessed of a lady garden, special treatment OF my lady garden is good though
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 21
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:45:34 AM
It's simple to me.
We no longer live in societies (mostly) where the biggest, strongest, hardest people rule.
If we did, we would have had someone like Frank Bruno as a PM instead of John Major, because I'm pretty sure he could 'have him', in a fair fight. (The same goes for any of the current batch of wimps in the cabinet, who I'd be more than happy to physically fight, for a place in government)

So our physical strength has really got nothing to do with it any more. Hence my objections to the concepts like "Taken in Hand" relationships etc., which seek to perpetuate those ancient, patriarchal, misogynist systems.

So yes, women should be treated equally, in all possible ways.
The days when you could dominate them, because you're bigger, and stronger, are gone.
Get used to it.
Yes, there are biological differences. Obviously.
But our brains are equal.

To those of you who object to women "expecting" men to do things, I would say simply don't. And if you don't want to buy them things, then just don't.
Whining about it will achieve nothing.

I don't mind carrying things for women, or helping them when necessary, any more than I objected to helping my kids, when they were smaller than me. Those with the broadest shoulders, should bear the heaviest load. It's not about fairness. it's just common sense.

Those who feel women somehow have an "unfair advantage", should avail themselves of the trans-gender operations available now.

IMO They have the worst of the deal. (From a physical POV)
But I still think they're lovely!
(Well, some of them.....)
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 22
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:01:34 PM

On the issue of women being called to look after a child in an emergency the school always used to call my dad and also when i broke my ankle at 18 and had to have an operation it was my dad that was called.

Only because your dad was married to your mother. Otherwise he'd have had no rights whatsoever.

Also I hate housework and don't think it should be all down to me. I will do my fair share but nothing more.

Why do i suspect thats not quite the whole truth..
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 23
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/27/2012 1:19:50 AM

Kieran_1981
I personally think women have a better quality of life than men. They will more likely be helped when in need and are allowed to show their emotions without the worry of being looked upon as weak. They live on average 5 years longer than men, and can retire a few years earlier despite in general paying less into the system for their pensions. The downsides of being woman as I see it, is giving birth, but this is a choice, and the 'monthly' problems.


Yeah, but on the other hand we can urinate anywhere. Swings and roundabouts really.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 24
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/27/2012 7:04:14 PM
God you so look to your conditioning and the conditioning of those close to you for your guidence.
Try thinging things through from a clean slate if you could and then you may think differently.


Unfortunately the slate isnt clean. Why do you think it is? The only way a man gets custody of his own children and be financially compensated is by destroying their mother. I'm not prepared to do that so i guess i'll have to work and pay rent while my ex complains about the free privately rented house she lives in that i found for her.
Theres nothing stopping a woman doing anything she wants to do apart from believers of the boo hoo poor me routine.
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 25
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 12:36:02 AM

helen1981
That's just not true men are more likely to be employed there are studies to show it. Discrimination against women helps no one. I went to a really interesting talk recently which was called "do men benefit from woman's oppression" and the answer was a resounding no. Part of your custody problems are because of it. The mother's role is seen as more important than the father's which to begin with it obviously is men can't give birth or breast feed but after that as much time should be given for the father to bond as much as the mother. We are living in a society where women are seen as the carer men as the provider. This means women are much more likely to get custody of children, rang in an emergency if they have split.

As I said...women are all for equality unless it benefits them ;) Don't see many women campaigning to end the near-automatic custody of children going to the mother, do you? Whereas men have to dress as Batman and scale public buildings to bring attention to their plight and have it still ignored.
 Wafta
Joined: 9/9/2008
Msg: 26
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 8:30:41 AM
I agree Charity, I think if more relationships/families had these, what are now deemed old fashioned, roles, then the family unit would function much better and our children would have much better role models to aspire to.

This particularly is something I am 100% in agreement of....

looking after children, feeding everyone healthy fresh food, running the house in an orderly way, keeping everyone on schedule is massively challenging job... I cannot understand why it is soooo devalued by women in particular..

I believe I tried to say this earlier and was critisized for it by a fellow female poster. It appears there is no pride in being a "homemaker" and mother anymore...shame!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 27
Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 1:41:02 PM

The US and the UK are the laughingstock of the world because men and women cannot get along, how the US goes, eventually goes the UK sadly...

I would ask for a citation to back up that ridiculous and somewhat melodramatic/hysterical assertion, but I know it would be a waste of time.

My ex was off full-time work for nearly ten years, but went back and worked nights at the weekends, to keep her 'hand in', and her job open, when the first was just 6 months old. Because she wanted to. So I worked sometimes 80 hours a week, and then came home and looked after the kids from friday night 'til she got up on sunday afternoons, (and that was 24 hours/day child care.) Then I'd go to work on monday, knackered.

They're so busy fighting supposed injustice, trying to gain "equality" that they ignore their own biology, reality and ultimately their own selves...
It's more insidious, the most odious form of misogyny; a peculiar form of self-hatred that is prevalent amongst those who think themselves the most enlightened...

There was no "denial" of biology involved, no misogyny, and no "self-hatred".
You seem to have very inflexible ideas of how it "should be". And are very judgmental and disparaging of anyone who disagrees.
What's "right" for you, may not be right for others.
We are all individuals, all having different 'needs', and 'wants', and capabilities.
Regardless of gender.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 29
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 3:08:22 PM
So what aren't you getting?
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 30
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/28/2012 4:52:59 PM

'm saying i have the right *rem*. There seems to be a few people on here, both male and female, that are saying that women don't deserve the same rights as a man.
Im saying that I do have the right, i work as hard as the men in my office. I'm fortunate enough not to have to fight for the rights that a person deserves in my work place. Women do as well as the men in my company, we have female directors in virtually every department throughout.


Maybe i missed it but i haven't read it like that. Having kids is just the way it is. Thats God's work (but then he is a man) but you won't be fired from your job for it. Being a manager of one department doesn't make you equal to the manager of another department. If the roles and requirements of the job are the same i don't see how anyone could be paid less than the other barring incremental bonuses

Some men want women to stay at home because they have old fashioned ideas - tough. Some men because they feel threatened by women in the workplace - tough. Some women feel threatened by mums returning to work because they feel those women are rejecting the traditional roles as inferior and thereby implying f/t mums are inferior. However that inferiority complex is imposed upon themselves by themselves.... .... There is no right or wrong role so really there is no need to feel threatened by women who choose another role.

The op said:
"I guess these views stem from the stereotypical (and somewhat, old fashioned) view of women who stay at home and look after the house while the man goes out to work. But surely, if women want to progress in modern society beyond the scope of this view and 'have it all'. They need to ditch this old fashioned view and take on a new attitude?"

I don't see the conflict here or anyone who is in favour of restricting a womans oportunities, unless you're saying women have every right to expect lavish gifts as well as discrimination in their favour?
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 32
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:22:24 AM
since mother and baby groups have been mentioned i have a question for you.
consider i meet a partner we have a baby she dies.
would i be welcomed at a mother n baby group?
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 33
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/30/2012 8:45:12 AM

i think some people missed the point, ie women wanting equality, yet wanting to be treated like a princess,

Yep and blown out of all proportion because SOME women just can't handle reality.
I think I can safely say there will NEVER be a woman playing for Man U and earning 200 grand a week Even Jamaican black women won't be challenging Usain Bolt any time soon.
Why? Because YOU CAN'T DO IT!
Single women complaining about "their share" of housework Duh.. HELLO?? Who do you expect to do it? Sorry.. forgot I was on a dating site for a minute.
Women moaning about coffee mornings and washing powder While man works 12hr night shifts to provide washing machine.. and wheres the washing when he gets home? Piled up in the bathroom!
I haven't heard any man here complain about doing the washing, cooking, cleaning, ironing,shopping, DIY, working or anything else. But when you ask a woman what she wants the reply is usually... EVERYTHING!

Well get off your ass and go get it!
 armchair_superhero
Joined: 4/18/2011
Msg: 34
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Equal rights... does this cover everything?
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:30:54 PM
The OP is way off base. You can't challenge women being given legal equality just because some women are gold diggers (or whatever term you want to use). Equality isn't conditional on a group meeting a certain standard of behaviour in some weird monolithic block. Some ethnic minorities are criminals*, should we not implement anti-racist legislation until they all stop?

These bitter, borderline bigoted attitudes about what women are like don't help anyone.
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