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 ChancesRMD
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 51
Casual sex linked to depressionPage 3 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

I'm not seeing what this has to do with casual sex verses sex inside of a relationship. If it's a chemical reaction during sex, wouldn't the same thing happen if they were married?



Yes, but presumably there would be someone to bond with, and the point of the hormone is then satisfied.


Sorry, I still can't get my head around it. So what about sex inside a relationship after the honeymoon is over. It seems married people fall into the casual sex category after awhile. Wouldn't the same thing happen? And if your answer is yes, then what are we saying?

Seems to me one way around it is to invent a pill to supress the chemical reaction. They can do everything else. Why not that?

If you don't like that idea than satisfy the hormone by just taking a page out of Steven Stills song, Love the One Your With.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 52
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:18:22 AM
Dude, you can probably pick ANY book in ANY library and say the same about it's author.

Anything being passed off as research or a ``study'' ought to have survived peer review and be free of moral judgments. Facts have no morality and legitimate research is about drawing logical conclusions from facts.

Only kind of psychological damage that can be haved by casual sex is if he/she clubs you on the head with a lead pipe.

Even though you meant that in jest, you did provide a great example of how real research differs frommaking judgments. A real researcher wold conclude that the damage was done by the lead pipe so as to cleanly attribute effects to their causes without making unstated assumptions to connect two different things to further an agenda.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 53
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:19:20 AM
^^^ (msg58) Perhaps the aspect of sex most over-looked here is the bundle of mood-enhancing chemicals in semen – prolactin, oxytocin, thyrotropin-releasing hormone, melatonin and even serotonin.

I’m quite sure the depressive aspect is that there just isn’t enough of the good stuff to go around.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 54
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:28:55 AM
Well, to the men who are so opposed to her and her conclusions- don’t worry about it.

Have casual sex/fwb/fb with women who want to have that with you. Don’t worry about the ones who don’t want to, or even their reasons for not wanting to. Not understanding why this would matter to men at all.

However, if you rely upon a sales pitch or manipulation to “get” sex from someone who is reluctant or ambivalent, and use your opinion that it isn't a big deal to convince someone, you’re just trying to persuade, convince someone to feel the way you do or to give you something you want. Like a salesman.

But there is no more scientific proof that sexual activity with someone has no emotional or psychological ramifications than that it does. Is there? Is there data that people who have fwb/fb/casual sexual encounters are happier, healthier, more successful in the short term or long term? Are there age or gender variations? Is there scientific support for the argument that it is "no big deal" or that it does not have emotional and psychological consequences?
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 55
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:34:59 AM
^^^
But there is no more scientific proof that sexual activity with someone has no emotional or psychological ramifications than that it does. Is there?

Of course sex has emotional or psychological ramifications. It makes us happy.


Is there data that people who have fwb/fb/casual sexual encounters are happier, healthier, more successful in the short term or long term?

Happier and healthier than whom? Happier and healthier than they’d be without it? Yes, there’s data. Sex is good for you.

Is there scientific support for the argument that it is "no big deal" or that it does not have emotional and psychological consequences?

Did you read msg 55?
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 56
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:42:12 AM
in re msg 55, from the Chicago Tribune, end of the article,


Few other researchers have studied the question, and those who have posed the questions differently and surveyed other age groups. For example, one study found that teenagers whose first sexual encounter was casual rather than romantic were more likely to report psychological distress. Another found that college women who engaged in casual sex were more likely than their male counterparts to report depressive symptoms.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-01-17/features/1001140379_1_sexual-encounter-young-adults-study-sheds-new-light

I didn't actually look at the studies, though. Have to do that next.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 57
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:47:36 AM
There are two different topics going on here, really. One is that those who have casual FWB relationships and are female suffer from depression caused by the act of having a casual FWB relationship that they have freely entered into. The other, it would appear, is that some are taking the consensual casual FWB out of the equation and turning it into a matter of the female having sex "thinking" she is going to have more than a casual FWB sexual encounter(s) and is dismayed and depressed when it doesn't turn out that way. In both cases, however, a number of posters blame the man along with a particular hormone, rather than the woman for the choices she is making of her own free will.

It's kind of like blaming sweets for making you gain weight, rather than yourself, for not weighing the consequences prior to making the conscious choice to put the sweets in your mouth. The person who gains weight because of eating the sweets can get depressed about the weight gain after the fact, as can the woman making the poor choice about who with and how often she chooses to have sex. That the woman has a willing partner when it comes to casual sex, doesn't make him or the hormone to blame.

Again, it would go back to knowing yourself, the person you're with and your expectations prior to having sex. If you don't have the capability to understand yourself or know the intentions of yourself and your casual partner, then you really have no business having sex until you come to those understandings.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 58
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:00:12 AM
^^^ msg 64 Teenagers whose first sexual encounter was casual rather than romantic are also more likely to report being coerced.

And college women who engaged in NO sex may also be more likely than their male counterparts to report depressive symptoms – all important variables.

It's quite possible that all women of all ages having all manner of sex or none at all are more likely than their male counterparts to report depressive symptoms. In fact I'd be surprised if that were not true.

As you say, one needs to look at the studies. If there are any. Dr. Miriam Grossman's hypothesis appears to be founded on 'couch-based' research. And young women who sought medical interventions.



msg 61: Well, to the men who are so opposed to her and her conclusions- don’t worry about it.

Have casual sex/fwb/fb with women who want to have that with you. Don’t worry about the ones who don’t want to, or even their reasons for not wanting to. Not understanding why this would matter to men at all.

Has it occurred to you that we might care about something beyond our own sexual satisfaction? That we have daughters and sisters and friends that are vulnerable to misinformation? That we would object to misinformation (and bigotry) of any kind in the public arena, whether it be sexual or political or religious or pseudo-scientific, etc?

Has it occurred to you that some men might care about people they’ve never even seen or heard of and never will, let alone have sex with them?
 blondiein2012
Joined: 12/16/2011
Msg: 59
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:14:35 AM
I think there might just be some truth in all of that but, we have to be careful not to let these concepts undermine women's sexual freedoms. What we should be doing is making them aware that with freedom comes responsibility. Equality between the genders is a worthy undertaking, on all fronts but, thinking that we have to act like men in order to be equal to them can be detrimental. We are at our strongest when we play to our inherent strengths after all instead of playing on a field of someone else's design where they have the best equipment and we are the underdogs.

Personally, I have had phases in my life when I have taken a break from all of this, sometimes a long one, and while I do not think I was ever depressed over it there are certainly times when I found it less than fulfilling. And then there have been other times when if someone tried to get in the way of my doing what I wanted sexually, I would have mowed them down to get what I wanted, took it greedily when I found it, and never looked back when it was over. Mind sets are not poured in concrete, they can change, and the key is to be aware of where you are in your life, what your real needs are and whether how you are choosing to meet them is really in your best interests.

I do think women, and younger women in particular, should be wary of being in serial FWB situations. It is often times just a politically correct term used to dress up what is no more than a meaningless sexual dalliance. Men use the term as an enticement because it implies there will be more to the situation than sex and women often use the term to make themselves feel better about what they are doing. My take on it all is that if you are not prepared to own the behaviour as it is in the cold light of day you probably should not be engaging in it to begin with.
 slpboo
Joined: 8/21/2011
Msg: 60
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:27:06 AM

Again, it would go back to knowing yourself, the person you're with and your expectations prior to having sex. If you don't have the capability to understand yourself or know the intentions of yourself and your casual partner, then you really have no business having sex until you come to those understandings.


Very true!

If you know you're the type of woman who catches feelings after becoming intimate with people, read the signs and stop having sex with guys who aren't serious about you. Sex is fun and feels good but it's not worth depression and feeling emotionally unfulfilled.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 61
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:37:50 AM
But there is no more scientific proof that sexual activity with someone has no emotional or psychological ramifications than that it does. Is there?

There never can be any such ``proof'' because it obviously cannot be a universal result. Everything you think and feel are due to chemical reactions in your brain. Your attitudes about things like sex arise from the environment in which you were raised, because repeated stimulus leads to forming particular neural pathways which is all an attitude or a belief about something is. So, I think it's fairly obvious that if a person has been raised such that he/she receives a lot of negative reinforcement regarding casual sex, then having casual sex will certainly produce a mental conflict.

On the other hand, a person who was raised to think casual sex is perfectly ok and who lives in an environment where everyone has casual sex, then the opposite would be the result. Finally, since people are capable of exposing themselves to environments which alter their attitudes, there's no reason why a person couldn't unlearn one attitude and learn a new one. It's all just brain chemistry and if anything the physical aspect of sex provides a lot of positive reinforcement to have sex. Attitudes about sex are shaped by the brain chemistry that is shaped by environment and experience.

The extent to which the quited study could be applicable would be that casual sex leads to depression in people who have been raised and/or had experiences that caused them to have an attitude that their is something wrong with casual sex. In other words, so what? The result begs the qestion or even confuses cause and effect. How many people in the study had casual sex who weren't depressed? Did any of them have casual sex because they were depressed? I don't really think anything about that would be news to neuroscientists apart from the lack of scientific rigor.

Sex is fun and feels good but it's not worth depression and feeling emotionally unfulfilled.

The other option would be to work to change your perspective so you aren't depressed and unfulfilled from casual sex.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 62
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:55:43 AM
I do think women, and younger women in particular, should be wary of being in serial FWB situations. It is often times just a politically correct term used to dress up what is no more than a meaningless sexual dalliance.


True.

This thread seems to be out weighed by the pro-casual sex crowd reassuring each other that they couldn't possibly have ever caused anyone male or female any grief or sadness in their histories of hit and run sexual encounters. Not to mention ever manipulating or taking advantage of a lonely person,even just a little. Nope, just perfect beings who have never ever harmed anyone ever. Blame social programming and religions because these women in the study are all incapable of actually having a genuine response to meaningless cold-hearted sex.
 JDinMN
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:56:39 AM
^^^ Most awesome. Yeah, what Abelian said. ^5 to you.

There are billions of ants who have never seen a human before. This doesn't mean that humans don't exist. So everybody who forms opinions strictly on their own observations are, how to put this delicately, full of frickin horse ca ca.

That's why we have the scientific method of understanding things.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 64
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 11:58:12 AM

The other option would be to work to change your perspective so you aren't depressed and unfulfilled from casual sex.


And another option is to not have sex with people who do not respect your feelings.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 65
view profile
History
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 12:09:35 PM
really, I am not 'into' casual , and have not been since my teens

but I think that study is just crazy,biologically why would something that is natural cause any kind of problems
I agree with one of the posts, 'studies should be void of moral judgement
stick to real science
this society, is trying to control everything about us
just look at films, they could put the most terrible violent crimes in a one
but, show one breast and it is rated R, never mind a
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 66
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 12:29:03 PM

This thread seems to be out weighed by the pro-casual sex crowd reassuring each other that they couldn't possibly have ever caused anyone male or female any grief or sadness in their histories of hit and run sexual encounters.

That’s just an obvious ad hominem, lotus – alleging things about others that you couldn’t possibly know. And you say their arguments lack integrity? Be sure that’s a window and not a mirror you’re looking in.

We’ve all experienced grief and sadness, lotus, all hurt and been hurt, whether in casual relationships or ltr’s or marriages. Your pointless attack suggests you’re not above the fray – and that causing hurt to others is not the locus of your concern.

The topic here explores a possible link between casual sex and depression. I trust you’ll add something rational and relevant when you have it?
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 67
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 12:46:39 PM
This thread seems to be out weighed by the pro-casual sex crowd reassuring each other that they couldn't possibly have ever caused anyone male or female any grief or sadness in their histories of hit and run sexual encounters.

I learned to be responsible for my own feelings.

Blame social programming and religions because these women in the study are all incapable of actually having a genuine response to meaningless cold-hearted sex.

The notion of what is cold hearted itself is due to social programming. It's ALL brain chemistry and reinforcing particular neural connections. People used to feel guilty about having sex out of marruage too, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside once the attitude stopped being enforced by social programming.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 68
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 1:04:04 PM

This thread seems to be out weighed by the pro-casual sex crowd reassuring each other that they couldn't possibly have ever caused anyone male or female any grief or sadness in their histories of hit and run sexual encounters. Not to mention ever manipulating or taking advantage of a lonely person,even just a little. Nope, just perfect beings who have never ever harmed anyone ever. Blame social programming and religions because these women in the study are all incapable of actually having a genuine response to meaningless cold-hearted sex.


Gimme a break....
Okay, so NO casual sex. At all. Ever. Is that better? Of course not, and its also NOT what's been happenning in the last 2000 years. If there WAS no casual sex, nowadays, with laws being lax like they are, I can guaran-damn-tee you that you'd see the number of rapists sky-rocket.
Not saying at all that Casual sex is better than regular one. I'm saying demonizing it is not better either. Not saying there isnt bad consequences to it sometimes; I'm saying there is not NECESSARILY any. You dig?
Extremes usually lead to problems. Each situation is different, as such one thing that would apply to one would not apply to another. Saying something is all bad is like saying all eggs are white...and pretending that the brown ones dont exist.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 69
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 1:12:48 PM
That’s just an obvious ad hominem, lotus – alleging things about others that you couldn’t possibly know. And you say their arguments lack integrity? Be sure that’s a window and not a mirror you’re looking in.


Nope i never said that, you did. If you want to include a lack of integrity thats on you in your post not mine. Let's not manipulate ok? My point stated my perception of many of the posts here from the pro-casual sex camp invalidating and completely denying the experiences of the women in the study of the opening post. Thats a transparent defensive maneuver and its about living in denial. When you show respect for other peoples feelings in your argument it becomes productive. At this point what i see is mostly denial which simply goes around in circles. Denying that they genuinely feel depression due to the act of casual sex all unto itself, is where you veer off into a non-productive stance. Blaming religion and programming is reverting to blaming and deflecting, again not constructive.

Edit to below: So in your limited view of biology.....hormones don't affect emotions?

Anyone who participates in casual sex and does not take into consideration that it may cause emotional grief for the other individual is living in denial.
 Tankeryanker56
Joined: 12/20/2011
Msg: 70
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 1:21:23 PM
Wonder if cave women felt used, and depressed after sex or did she expect something because she engaged in sex or if sex was seen as something she took part in whether she wanted to or not.

Biology is biology and the rest is socialization.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 71
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 2:15:58 PM
Your depiction of “the pro-casual sex crowd reassuring each other that they couldn't possibly have ever caused anyone male or female any grief or sadness” is a clear ad hominem, lotus.

No-one has claimed that, or to being “perfect beings who have never ever harmed anyone ever.” It’s a clear misrepresentation and an ad hominem.

No-one is “invalidating and completely denying the experiences of the women.” No-one even knows these women, except the author. What I'm calling attention to is her unsound and unsupported conclusions. It's an exercise in critical thinking.
 Della D
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 72
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:06:29 PM
As per a previous post, correlation is NOT = causality!!

Coming from statistics, there are loads of nonsense correlations around.
Here's a funny one: Guess many of us have heard that babies are brought by storks, ok?
But I guess we all do agree that the decreasing stork population is NOT the cause of the also decreasing birth rates in developed countries?

As for the specific "correlation" in the OP, I would think that IF there is any causality it might rather be the other way round: Teenagers and young adults who engage indiscriminately in casual sex are most likely those who are less grounded in themselves, showing a less stable personality as they are still searching themselves, which again makes them more vulnerable to develop symptoms of depression.
 What_He_Said
Joined: 1/11/2012
Msg: 73
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:21:26 PM

.... She states that depression is rising among her female students and is finding that more and more of them engage in "Friends with Benefits" scenarios. In the end, the women often feel like they're not getting the "friend" part when the man is still reaping his "benefits". They "aren't even aware they're being exploited."

She says, "...We teach young people to be very particular in what they eat, how they exercise, to be ridiculously frightened of the dangers of second hand smoke, and to flee in terror if a teaspoonful of elemental mercury is spilled in a classroom, yet we are not honest with them about the dangers of casual sexual practices and that safer sex is no such thing. We don't teach young women that sex is biologically, hormonally, and emotionally different for them than it is for men and they are more likely to end up with depression and anxiety issues than the men they have casual relationships with."


Haven't read the book so I can only comment on this post.

Cause or effect? Is she asserting a correlation between casual sex causing depression or these women are depressed to begin with and use this activity in an attempt to cope with depression?

If they do suffer from depression, might there be other causes and address those underlying issues? What is it that she proposing as potential solutions to this perceived problem.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 74
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 3:51:14 PM

Haven't read the book so I can only comment on this post.


 jmark4
Joined: 7/3/2011
Msg: 75
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 4:41:23 PM
whether people want to think it or not, sex is an emotional thing. That's why I dont sleep around. Younger people are like dogs in heat and just want to orgasm.

The lady is saying what many people are saying. FWB's NEVER EVER work. One side; whether they admit it or not; gets feelings for the other.

People have no self control and no character. I'd never be in a FWB because I'm not a mindless dog looking to orgasm; sex means something and I'm not going to do have FWB.

My neighbors lab has a FWB with the 2 dogs down the street.
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