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 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 76
Casual sex linked to depressionPage 4 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
^^^

whether people want to think it or not, sex is an emotional thing. That's why I dont sleep around. Younger people are like dogs in heat and just want to orgasm.

Oops, I thought it was an emotional thing. Just for you? not for young people? Judging a whole group of people like that is called bigotry.

Ever heard of puppy love? Sex can be an incredibly intense experience for young people.



The lady is saying what many people are saying. FWB's NEVER EVER work. One side; whether they admit it or not; gets feelings for the other.

The ‘lady’ never even mentioned FWB. And ‘getting feelings’ isn’t such a bad thing. Sex is emotional, remember? Emotions can feel really good.


People have no self control and no character.

There are people who see evil everywhere. Except in their own reflection


I'd never be in a FWB because I'm not a mindless dog looking to orgasm; sex means something and I'm not going to do have FWB.

Don’t be a mindless hater. Or a righteous one. It’s a waste of good life.


My neighbors lab has a FWB with the 2 dogs down the street.

Well, as long as it’s safe, sane and consensual. Do they look like they hate each other? It might be a good life.
 ontario_woman
Joined: 4/3/2005
Msg: 77
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:00:10 PM
I think that whether or not casual sex can lead to depression depends on the values of the woman involved.

If casual sex is contrary to her values then succumbing to pressure and engaging in casual sex is going to damage her self-esteem and lead to depressions. On the other hand, if she is comfortable with casual sex, then it's unlikely to cause problems.

Bottom line: Do what you feel comfortable doing and don't let others pressure you into doing something that you are not comfortable with.
 Ocee
Joined: 3/5/2012
Msg: 78
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:16:57 PM
Dr Miriam Grossman(the author) is just another "family values" right wing religious conservative trying to give her religioun derived sense of morality and ethics scientic credibility.

She also wrote..."The Wonder of Becoming You, How a Jewish Girl Grows Up"
 Mr_Celibate
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 79
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:35:51 PM
^^^ Well she would not of even gotten published 40 to 50 years ago because it was the "sexual revolution," and everything had to be free love, sex and more sex. Down with the establishment!

Woodstock is long over but the hippies, who have become the establishment, will shake their finger at you if you question the party line. And in this case "party" can be referred to as a literal party.
 DivineBovine
Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 80
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:54:21 PM
ho hum, let's find another way to control women's sexuality and tell them that they'll get depressed if they have sex outside marriage.

how do these people account for those studies that show that married women suffer from depression more than single women?

ontario woman got it right:


If casual sex is contrary to her values then succumbing to pressure and engaging in casual sex is going to damage her self-esteem and lead to depressions. On the other hand, if she is comfortable with casual sex, then it's unlikely to cause problems.
 Darkbutcomely
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 81
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:05:21 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2031498/Sex-Why-makes-women-fall-love--just-makes-men-want-MORE.html


As the above article states during sex women release a hormone that causes her to bond while men release pleasure hormones. We are depressed when those bonds are broken. While they are just horny. We are NOT men when it comes to sex. We are unable to do the same as men due to our chemical make up. This is why men pay for sex while we as women would rather spend thousands on shoes.
 DivineBovine
Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 82
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:17:38 PM

We are depressed when those bonds are broken. While they are just horny. We are NOT men when it comes to sex. We are unable to do the same as men due to our chemical make up.


because every woman in the world has exactly the same hormone levels ALL the time and every woman on the planet experiences life in exactly the same way...

that is what you're saying, right?
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 83
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:21:00 PM
When I was married I got stuck with really bad sex. Boy did that make me depressed.


Women need to be raise to have sex for all the enjoyment that it brings. This is more nurture than nature.


Yes. WHY would casual sex be depressing, if women weren’t getting messages of “No, no…don’t do that…you shouldn’t…it’s wrong….” Enough!

Women have enough to feel guilty about. Can we please just have sex and enjoy it?

I don’t do casual sex but I find myself reacting to the negative bias against women who choose sexual lifestyles that others so vocally disapprove of. No WONDER women get depressed…we are forever held to impossible standards and judged so harshly by our own gender.

It doesn’t make anyone look virtuous by comparison…it looks like what it is… petty, catty and insecure.

I also take exception to the idea that because women’s bodies supposedly release some hormone during sex that that binds us to the guy. Bullshit. It may influence our reactions, but no way do I accept that human beings are walking zombie slaves to bodily functions with no mind or will of their own.

I suppose when a woman finds out hubby has been screwing someone else, her ‘love hormones’ prevent her from kicking his azz to the curb? Not likely!

More independent thinking would be greatly beneficial.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 84
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:37:26 PM
whether people want to think it or not, sex is an emotional thing.

Obviously. Emotions are brain chemistry in action. You're an exothermic reaction that began at birth and which will reach equilibriun when you die. Your function is to replicate your DNA and emotions are nothing more than some chemical reactions that reinforce behaviours that are supposed to facilitate producing more DNA. Depending on who your parents were and your environment, that may or may not be the case.

That's why I dont sleep around.

No, the reason you don't sleep around is that your conditioning has reinforced that behaviour.

I'd never be in a FWB because I'm not a mindless dog looking to orgasm; sex means something and I'm not going to do have FWB.

That's an incredibly anthropic argument and circular argument. If you anthropomorphize your argument, you conclude that humans are better than dogs. No surprise there. However, that says nothing about whether you or the dog has the better strategy for perpetuating your respective species. The only objective measure of a species worth is how well it adapts, survives and reproduces. At least casual sex is an attempt to accomplish that.

So-called mindless dogs have sex because they aren't smart enough to figure out how to turn a biological function into a miserable experience on their own. For that humans have to intervene. Humans can provide enough negative reinforcement for a dog to associate sex with pain, and a dog will avoid sex, too, only a dog won't create layers of obfuscation and self-delusion to turn it into a virtue in order to be happier about it, so a dog will learn to not have casual sex a lot faster than a human will. (Geez, I hope I don't give any ideas to the christian right here.)

Humans aren't that different. Human intellect only makes it more difficult to condition them because of their ability to derive satisfaction from complete figments of imagination (martyrs being the most obvious example). Think Rube Goldberg here. So, the reason people may or may not get some reward from casual sex is really not all that different from why Pavlov's dog salivateed or dogs do or don't do anything else when trained, apart from some additional complexity created by the higher intellect humans use to feel better about whatever jam they happen to be in. (Martyrs would seem to be the ultimate example of this, given their ability to volunteer to die for some imaginary reward.)

Humans are just resistant to the idea that whatever pain (emotional or physical) they feel in any given circumstance is the result of their own conditioning, not any natural order of things. Whether humans are superior to dogs (in any objective sense) remains to be seen. That won't be known until one species outlasts the other. I really fail to see how all of this isn't just completely obvious to the most casual observer.

We are unable to do the same as men due to our chemical make up.

Prostitutes are an obvious counterexample, given that the vast majority of prostitutes are overwhelmingly women.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 85
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 6:55:56 PM

We are NOT men when it comes to sex.

Apparently we aren’t either. Male oxytocin levels quintuple during orgasm. And we get lonely too. Check out how men feel about sex in the ‘I Miss Sex’ thread…

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts14729048.aspx

Folks who attend support groups have higher levels of oxytocin. Oxytocin is released during hugging. Women need more oxytocin if they are to reach an orgasm. Even solo. People with pets have higher levels of oxytocin.

Oxytocin is the love potion. I’m with the folks here who say to drink it wisely. Abstain from casual sex If it’s not for you. You can still pet your kitty. (grins)
 Mr_Celibate
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 86
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:12:56 PM
^^^ msg 99. You seem to be saying that human beings are just high thinking animals, noble beasts, if you will. And since you say that it is our peculiar thinking that gets us in trouble , than all we have to do is follow our lower instincts and everything should work out great.

And your theory can't fail. If things don't work out you just say it's negative conditioning, i.e. it's all in your head.

But the woman still has pain.
 Larrytwa
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 87
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:21:12 PM
I am CONFUSED how is it that sex between people means : "In the end, the women often feel like they're not getting the "friend" part when the man is still reaping his "benefits". They "aren't even aware they're being exploited.""

WHAT REWARD do men reap?

Safe sex exist, it is called masturbation, and it come with no commitment problems.

Intimacy between people should be highly considered as women and men have very little in common. The need to appropriate is the mindless chore of humping, preferably with someone that likes to hump with you, which happens once in a while.


I am firm believer that women and men need to live in different parts of this plant only to get together to allow body fluids to be exchanged and then return back to their worlds, but what about all this children, hmm with the US at 65% single home with children in the 15-50 range, then visitation should be working, just let skip the courts and enjoy the situation. Just don't stop the internet.

WOW.................... sex has rewards? I thought I lost testosterone and she got more energy.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 88
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:24:24 PM

If you take a deeper look into what today's relationships have evolved into I really feel sorry for tomorrow's youth. Everything today is centered around devices- our cell phones, computers, tablets and laptops- and less focused on people to people interactions. more social networking than socializing, texting being the #1 means of communication for todays youth which of course eliminates body language and tone so there is more unsurety in what is actually being said. I bring up the point that the internet, cell phones, ipad, Facebook and laptops were all invented by men...instead of having to go out, bring communication to the mancave and stay there forever. not such a good idea for todays relationships! just ask any single person out there if they're happy with they "dating process" of our era.


It is hard to disagree with so much of the above. I have warned my kids from the time they took to "IMing" their friends that I fear that they lack the ability to form close peronal relationships, so far removed is the type of communication in which they engage each other. I do not, however, find this detrimental only to women, or more detrimental to females. It is harmful to society in general, to have become so far removed from interaction with other beings. We are choosing to ignore our own needs and enhanced the notion of instant gratification. Sad commentary on society and I do firmly believe that we will see the unfortunate result in the next decade or two.

Geez,I'm becoming my mother!
 massha
Joined: 7/20/2010
Msg: 89
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:47:43 PM
While in most other cases I would be among the first ones to ask 'cause or consequence or what?' it seems that in this case, a highly plausible causal mechanism is offered: release of oxytocin leads to the girl getting attached to the man in ways that go beyond the original FWB arrangement. This is your causality. Girls start having these relationships not realizing the dependency - chemical dependency - that they will fall victims to. Sounds legit.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 90
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:50:04 PM
You seem to be saying that human beings are just high thinking animals, noble beasts, if you will.

I think you over state the case, since I question the value of intelligence in a survival strategy. I never claimed that humans were an actual improvement over other animals from nature's standpoint.

And since you say that it is our peculiar thinking that gets us in trouble

No, I said that the higher intellect in humans allows them to delude themselves and rationalize.

than all we have to do is follow our lower instincts and everything should work out great.

No way to know for sure. We haven't been on the planet long enough to know if our evolutionary branch will be successful or ust one of a multitude of branches that died out due to a poor ability to adapt, survive and perpetuate their species.

And your theory can't fail. If things don't work out you just say it's negative conditioning, i.e. it's all in your head.

You're a perfect example of what I was alluding to in my post. Humans apparently have a great enough intellect to engage in self delusion, but not nearly great enough to be completely logical. However, I think you failed to understand enough of it to say much of anything other than ``neener neener.''

But the woman still has pain.

Then adapt to the circumstances and undo the first 20 years of learning. If you have enotional pain, you are the origin of that pain. No one can make you feel something unless you allow that person to control your emotions.

Girls start having these relationships not realizing the dependency - chemical dependency - that they will fall victims to.

Only if you believe women are somehow inferior to men. I am personally in favor of being equals, so I don't see women as hapless victims any more than I see myself as a victim.

We dont have to let our animal instincts rule us, we are humans.

Right. Humans are capable of going against nature even though nature has had a good track record for billions of years and always wins in any dispute. Having a brain makes us the only species capable of shooting ourselves in the foot and continuing to reload until our leg is shot off.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 91
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:50:12 PM
Larrytwa

Men are from Mars and Women from Venus

I think you mean procreate rather than appropriate??? We dont have to let our animal instincts rule us, we are humans. The planet does not need more people. Some of us get along with the opposite sex and like to be with them. I do prefer separate bedrooms though and the man to have his shed. You may not get along with the opposite sex and see them only as sexual vehicles. I dont know.
 damsel19
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 92
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:54:16 PM
Massha

I think that girls very often hope that something more serious will come of the FWB in time. SO their agenda is not matching the guys. It gives them license to bonk other women because they are "not in a relationship" and are not committed. Men are wired to spread their sperm around and monogamy is not natural. Whether it is for women either, maybe not. If we were to follow our natural instincts, perhaps not.

In primitive cultures girls had babies at 14 which were raised by their mothers and aunts who were 28 and it left them free to play and be young and to have the healthier babies. The grandmothers were 42 say, and with their experience were able to give the children the time and raising that they needed. Babies were raised by a community or a tribe often. So if the man was lost whilst hunting or was procreating with other females, no big deal.
 JDinMN
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 93
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:55:50 PM
OMG. Life repeats itself over and over. These comments about the evils and perils of advancements in communications are just silly. I can hear the same things being said about smoke signals, the telegraph, and telephones. Nowadays it's just texting, email, and that nasty internet.

Of course, face to face is the deepest form of communication but the telegraph or telephone didn't end the human race and I doubt cell phones or texting will either.

I'm old enough (ack) to remember the transition from ONE main family phone to people having phones installed into their rooms to now most people carry a phone in their pocket.

Sorry for OT but geez people. Embrace a little bit of change and technological advancement.

That darn Alex G. Bell fella really messed things up for us.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 94
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/26/2012 9:06:11 PM
I don’t do casual sex but I find myself reacting to the negative bias against women who choose sexual lifestyles that others so vocally disapprove of. No WONDER women get depressed…we are forever held to impossible standards and judged so harshly by our own gender.

It doesn’t make anyone look virtuous by comparison…it looks like what it is… petty, catty and insecure.


Precisely.
What is this-are women who don't like sex and have nothing else TO bring to the table-feeling like they are being undercut by women who do not have iron-rigid 1950s sexual rules? So it becomes necessary to mount a campaign against FwB?

Incidentally, I don't particularly categorize FwB as "casual sex"...it is not just 2 people who meet to join genitals.
Done right, there is friendship, there are feelings-but it is understood and accepted that this is not going to become a committed long-term cohabiting relationship, or a marriage. If both people mutually find it in their hearts to restructure to a committed long-term relationship, that's wonderful. No one in their right mind is going to say "Nope, can't do that, you started out as FwB so you can't do anything else except stop the involvement entirely". But it must be realized that this is not likely to happen. And it also must be realized that there is a great deal of mis-definition of FwB-if you start feeling as though there is no friendship and there isn't much benefit to you-then END the involvement.

As far as "Fwb never works"-what? A goodly percentage of LTRs and marriages don't work,either.
Why aren't there any books being written to discourage people from long-term relationships and marriage? The statistics I see cited most often seem to indicate that 50% of first time marriages fail, 60-some % of 2nd marriages fail, and 70-75% of 3rd marriages fail.
Don't misunderstand me, I am not against marriage or longterm relationships, I'm simply pointing out that citing "very limited sucess" or "large number of failures" could also be USED as reasons to de-value LTR and marriage.

I think what REALLY bothers the anti-fwb contingent is that it appears to be a means for people to obtain sex without "paying for it" in some way, (like spending money on dates, or making a "committment").

The other thing that I begin to wonder about, is that perhaps women who've been conditioned to see sex as an "obligation" to be honored in return for committment, fear that their "product" is being "undercut" by women who have a more open-minded attitude towards sex.
I suspect that the fear may be rising to the point where women who don't like sex are feeling pressured to engage in sex against their 'druthers' in order to "compete" with women who are less inhibited/negatively conditioned. So they go looking for propaganda against non-marital(non "committed relationship") sex, claiming it causes unintended reproduction, STDS, and now depression.

Depression is caused by a lot of things-in fact, depression can be an internally caused, organic dysregulation of brain chemistry. Head injuries can cause depression. Lack of sunlight can cause depression. Chronic illness/chronic pain/chronic stress can cause depression...lets not make make non-ltr/non-marital sex into a depression bogeyman.

Let me make it crystal clear...I do not support sexual promiscuity, f*ckbuddy arrangements, or people mislabeling those things as FwB. My personal position is that multiple concurrent FwBs are not something I would participate in...yes I realize I cannot force that 'rule' on anybody else. In fact, I reserve the right to make my own individual situational decision about whether or not to involve myself in a FwB. Just because I refuse to condemn it does not mean that I am under a permanent obligation to participate, nor does it mean that I have some feeling that FwB is the best I can hope for. Far from it.
As an example, an analogy, I wouldn't eat sushi- AFAIC-civilized people COOK their food!-But I'm certainly not going to picket the sushi counter in the local Krogers' store-or bash a date or a friend who chose to order it.
Back to FwB-
I am absolutely in favor of utmost care to prevent unplanned conception or the transmission of STDs in any kind of sexual involvement/interaction. I support everyone's right to take some time to evaluate the provenance of a potential sex partner-in fact I ENCOURAGE that.
I am not in favor of one-nighters, hook-ups with strangers,and I have reservations about first date sex. I do not condemn those who choose to participate RESPONSIBLY in these activities-I would not usually choose them, but then I'm not standing in the shoes of people who do engage in them-I'm sure they have their reasons.

But can we PUL-EEAZZE stop bashing all forms of sexual congress EXCEPT that which occurs in relationships given widespread social approval? Yes, absolutely, the topnotch IDEAL of sexual interaction is within marriage-but that does not make other forms of RESPONSIBLE sexual activity "bad" or "wrong".
Cindy O
 BehinDarkBluEyes
Joined: 1/16/2012
Msg: 95
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 3:56:16 AM
Ah if you read enough everything is linked to something..lol
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 96
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 6:15:39 AM

Wonder if cave women felt used, and depressed after sex or did she expect something because she engaged in sex or if sex was seen as something she took part in whether she wanted to or not.

Biology is biology and the rest is socialization.


Actually dudette, back then I dont think the pleasure of women was very much taken into consideration. I have a hard time picturing caveman sex as anything less than rape (see the History of Fire, or whatever that caveman flick is called)
And when she was being dragged back by her hair to a cave and slapped until she stopped moving...pretty sure she didnt have much choice lol.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 97
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 6:19:53 AM

WOW.................... sex has rewards? I thought I lost testosterone and she got more energy.


Yup, it does have rewards. Ask any prostitute
There's also some couple who install reward rules. Like the "buy 1 get 1 free" rule or the "you dont have to do dishes" rule. Pretty rocking
 Darkbutcomely
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 98
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 7:14:15 AM
why not Cat why do I have to know anything about the person if I all I desire is a sexual encounter?? Why if this will lead to nothing more than more sex do I have to care about anything other than his ability to stay healthy? And how many friends can I have with these benefits?? One two 7 or 10 20? how about 50?? can I have 50 different men I am sleeping with all friends with benefits?? HOW do I know he is truly a friend? Can he be married?? Since we are going to play this game LET'S really play. Who are you say what is responsible and what isnt? Responsible is simply not getting pregnant or getting a STD.

And the majority of men I have slept with I dont remember their names and funny how those friends disappear when I find a real relationship. So really the fact the friendship was based simply on the fact they were getting their sexual needs met without the relationship was the real friendship. ONCE the friendship part had to kick in they were gone. NOW I dont miss them. But that was when I was A kids in my 20's, early 30's why the hell would I still be doing the same thing so close to 50? When do we grow up is my question???
 pasmal
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 99
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 8:51:02 AM
If I sleep with friends, they aren't friends anymore--they are people I'm involved with, even on a limited level.
Once you get physically intimate, they are dates or involvements, however go nowhere the situation.
FWB always struck me as being in denial. Oh, it's nothing-they don't count.
(they are nothing important), nothing happened (we're "friends", on the down low--can't admit I'm involved with HIM!) cuz I'm not that into him.
Why not admit ya had sex and maybe it was just there, or you always liked him that way,
what is this "friend" BS? The term friend has been abused.
So the fwb is just a void, he gets no number-I've had 3 ltrs, (5 fwb, but they don't count.)
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 100
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/27/2012 9:02:52 AM

114: why do I have to know anything about the person if I all I desire is a sexual encounter?? Why if this will lead to nothing more than more sex do I have to care about anything other than his ability to stay healthy? And how many friends can I have with these benefits?? One two 7 or 10 20? how about 50??

… why the hell would I still be doing the same thing so close to 50? When do we grow up is my question???

Maybe we ‘grow up’ when we can answer those questions for ourselves? on our own terms?

That’s a bit glib, I suppose. We may never answer all our own questions. But at least it’s to ourselves that we turn with those questions, and for the final answers. And it’s to ourselves that we’re finally responsible, and the people whose lives we affect.
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