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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Casual sex linked to depression      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 126
Casual sex linked to depressionPage 6 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
I just went and re-read the OT.

I'm sorry, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone's personal sexual choices-but basically this speech given by someone promoting their own book(most authors, be they writing books of fiction, or non-fiction-promote their work in order to MAKE MONEY) ,picks and chooses a few scenarios and statements made by other health professionals,that for all WE know-were against non-marital sex to begin with.
There
are no statistics offered in this promotional speech-if there were, the OP did not include any of them-it was simply a matter of going out and rattling the bushes to find opinions that matched those of the author...and of course she was able to find them.

I would make a semi-educated guess that this book is being marketed to mothers of college students-particularly female students.
If you take that demographic and spread it over the entire US/North American continent-I think you will find a strong leaning towards being anti non-marital(relationship) sex. This stance is most likely informed by parental teaching and social opinions of the late 60s and early 70s.

Yes, somebody said there was a sexual revolution and free love going on in that time period-but in the average middle-class, middle-of-the -road, middle America family, nobody was taking that claim seriously, it was something happening at Woodstock, at Berkeley, maybe in NYC.


Another psychiatrist says, "Ideology-driven health services lead young women to believe they are just like men – and they pay a high price for it... campus counseling centers are whitewashing the painful consequences of casual sex, STDs and abortion. They are promoting the notion that men and women are the same. They are not educating young people about future and family. In these issues, so central to campus health and counseling, we are failing our young people.”


What in the WORLD is an "ideology driven health service"?

The idealogy of health services is-or OUGHT TO be-to preserve life and health. In many situations health services are constrained from promoting any specific idealogy or social code,they are there to treat medical issues and help people avoid medical issues. Counseling about safe sex helps people avoid medical issues, it is not the place of health services to be proselytizing about "future and family".

Parents of college age daughters who are genuinely worried about this need to send their daughters to colleges run by organized religious entities who are providing their own funding for health services-because those colleges can probably get away with welding young women into chastity belts if they choose to set that policy.


An RN, who "could not in good concience work [at a university health clinic]" because observing for only 4 hrs, "They would sit and hand out birth control, the morning after pill and treatments for STD's, and none of them were educating these women and giving them guidence, not just for their health, but personally and emotionally.


HEL-LO?!! Due to any number of laws and matters generated by funding sources/issues-all these clinics are PERMITTED to do is give medical care and medical advice. Other than "education and guidance" about specific FACTS of sexual health, these college medical services cannot lecture,counsel, guide, or proselytize. If a health-care professionals' personal beliefs and conscience make it difficult to remain factual and neutral, I believe they do have certain rights to not work in situations that compromise their beliefs.As far as counseling, I'm sure that many colleges have an OPTION for faith-based counseling services.
But lectures about sociosexual behavior-other than factual information about preventing unwanted conception or disease-these cannot be done in a health-care clinic setting(unless it is a privately funded or religion-based operation.)

Here's another issue I have.

This is a DATING site. This is a RELATIONSHIP forum.

I am sure there are websites, forums, blogs,etc all over the web where college students and their parents can discuss college-related concerns.

I realize that this IS a DISCUSSION forum-and that a discussion about sex and relationships is not out of place-but why come at it from this angle? If a forum participant wants to speak out in opposition to FwB-just speak out ! Don't try to sneak up on the subject sideways by referring to a promotional speech made by a book author looking to sell her product.
Cindy O
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 127
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:58:54 AM

What in the WORLD is an "ideology driven health service"?

Feminist. And all that that implies. Sexual freedom and self-determination. Minority rights.

and none of them were educating these women and giving them guidence

Ironically, Dr. Miriam Grossman is now a promotional mouth-piece for the Christian Right. She is actively campaigning to remove sex education from schools.

I rather suspect that if some of those young female patients knew their case histories were being used for that purpose, they’d be displeased. I also suspect Dr. Grossman doesn’t actually have their case histories, certainly not their files.

Her ‘research’ is based on her memories from ten years earlier. She saw young women who needed counseling. Fewer who were enjoying health and happy relationships. Not hard to see how that would skew the ‘data’. Seen through the lens of her religious bias and current political agenda, I wouldn't bank on her conclusions being fair and balanced.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 128
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 11:26:42 AM

What in the WORLD is an "ideology driven health service"?


In plain english, they call that daydreaming. Something that doesn't apply to JUST the Health System, it applies to pretty much 9/10 of the governement in its Ivory tower....
I'll let you in on how disconnected some of them are, when it comes time to spend your money, for example;
Their starting here in Quebec an anti-corruption coalition that is going to investigate allegations on the misuse and misspending of funds by some key members of governement, trying to buy some companies in the world of construction. They suspect the governement dealt with the Mafia.
They're going to hold the offices for these in a new building being renovated by....the company suspected. Cost for the renovation? 2.8 MILLION dollars....the building is new.
Logic? None.
Conclusion? People are REALLY stupid.

But, to come back to our sheep, casual sex, probably has absolutely no impact on depression. Lack of it however, really gets me down
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 129
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 11:47:56 AM
Well it shouldn't make you depress if the women get paid.

It doesn't depress me. My best friend is an escort and in my opinion, she's quite business savvy.

Women should not be naive and let guys use them.

I agree, however I don't agree that women who have sex are being used. I've certainly never had sex with a woman I had to persuade or lie to for sex. You can only be used if you allow someone to use you. However, there is a very easy solution. Only have sex if you want to have sex and you don't expect anything other than sex to come from it. Then, you can never be used. It's that simple.

I don't care if you make a billion in a yr, remember women have something that men are willing to pay.

What men are willing to pay for is not quite what you think it is. As the saying goes, prostitutes aren't paid for sex. They're paid to leave after sex. You can also figure discretion is a part of the price, which isn't something that normally figures into casual sex between civilians.

I am just sadened that I am born in time where women have no respect.

That's a non-sequitur. Respect is something you earn and women don't earn it by conforming to some puritanical standard about sex. I'd be quite depressed to think my respect hinged on my sex life, instead of my ethics and intelligence. If a person's respect (and self respect) hinges on his/her sex life, then that person is unaccomplished at anything else.

The world can not go one with out a women and the society should not make women feel bad of her choices.

I've never made a woman feel bad for her choices. Stop gender bashing.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 130
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 12:26:16 PM

Feminist. And all that that implies. Sexual freedom and self-determination. Minority rights.


But-at least in the US-this is not "idealogy"-it is the LAW.

Health-care professionals in certain publicly funded clinics,or clinics associated with publicly funded colleges- cannot counsel, instruct, advise, people in anything but FACTS and factual information.
They can provide contraception and contraception information, information on avoidance of contracting-and spreading-STIs/STDs. If a female patient of the age of consent says she needs the morning-after pill, it must be provided.
I'm sure that if the care provider has concerns that the woman is a victim of rape, FACTUAL information about counseling and seeking justice would not be considered amiss or inappropriate.
But these service providers cannot lecture, preach, or counsel about UNPROVEN speculations regarding sex and sexual relations.


Not hard to see how that would skew the ‘data’. Seen through the lens of her religious bias and current political agenda, I wouldn't bank on her conclusions being fair and balanced


Nor would I. Meaning absolutely no disrespect to the good doctors intentions, she means well,I'm sure.

But-why is what MIGHT have been happening to some college women a few years back-being brought to a dating site forum as a topic for discussion?

Why is an authors' promotional speech designed to sell books, being brought to the forums and presented as incontrovertible fact-when the true nature of this speech, talk, broadcast, is MARKETING?
I know, I know-it is not human nature to read, listen or think critically when one reads or hears something that one WANTS to believe because it supports his or her own preferences and prejudices.

Really-lets set aside the pros and cons of FwB, or any true form of pure sportf*cking. (which IMO/IME is NOT the category FwB belongs in)-and explore why the OP used this information as a basis to start a topic?

Yes, I realize that this is a place for discussion and debate-but it has been my observation that 98% of the time topics posted in the "PoF Love Stuff" forums are driven by a specific issue or occurrence-NOT subjects brought up for pure discussion and debate.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that this is in any way "bad" or "wrong". But in the occasions where we see a general topic posted that SEEMS to be about an academic exercise in discussion/debate,rather than a specific occurrence or experience that the OP wants to discuss-all too often it does turn out to be in aid of someone wanting to either promote- or vilify !-a particular issue.

If the OP had posted that she had a collegiate daughter( or younger sister) who was having difficulty with on-campus sociosexual trends, that would be one thing.

But to bring up an authors promotional activities, as some kind of "proof" that a certain LEGAL,nonviolent sociosexual trend is "bad"-what is the topic author REALLY trying to accomplish?

Look, from all I've experienced, observed or been an eyewitness to-lots of things having to do with sex, dating,relationships. marriage, family carry the potential to cause situational/reactive depression( or in the case of postpartum depression, a body-chemistry based depression). They also carry the potential to be positive in nature, or at least to be a valuable learning experience.

Maybe it's just me/my perception, but it kind of seems like FwB has suddenly become a popular thing to bash? Why do you reckon that is happening?
Cindy O
 southernebella
Joined: 3/21/2012
Msg: 131
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 12:54:13 PM
im glad to see there is a whole theory and scientific explanation that explains my choice to stay celibate till marriage people ask how do you do it i say its really easy when you weigh the consequences over the benefits i know its not for every one but theres definatley additionally lower self esteem in the women who don't want to admit that they do want to be wanted more than just their bodies its not "cool" to say you want a relationship I'm pretty sure there plenty of girls who wished they never gave up their virginity because like this author said well friends with benefits results in his benefits and no friendship or benefits for the girl
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 132
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 12:58:33 PM

Maybe it's just me/my perception, but it kind of seems like FwB has suddenly become a popular thing to bash? Why do you reckon that is happening?


Nah, it's just another of those "morals" thing, that is probably more common online than off. You know, the "Everyone does it EXCEPT me" syndrome.

"A FWB is amoral and no one should do it. Especially not me. BUT, I do it, and just don't tell anybody. Little do I know, everyone is doing the same thing as me. So its okay to bash it because it makes us look morally superior, because, perish the thought, we can't pass as ORDINARY people"......LOL
At least, that is my current theory. Pretty sure I'm not THAT far off too.
 JDinMN
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 133
view profile
History
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:03:46 PM
^^^ Agreed. Good insight.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 134
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:04:17 PM
as they used to say about money.. (it's not money that is the root of all evil, it's the LACK of money).

for me a LACK of casual sex depresses me !
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 135
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:25:47 PM

im glad to see there is a whole theory and scientific explanation that explains my choice to stay celibate till marriage

So, in other words, you decided to stay celibate until marriage because anything else may have made you depressed, but you didn't realize that until someone came up with the "theory" and (non)scientific explanation? What it says is you were honest with yourself about how you, personally, would feel about having sex, given your own moral compass and temperment, together with perhaps how you would be made to feel by others if you did anything less than that.

That there may be lower self-esteem in women who don't want to admit that they do want to be wanted is on them, not on the actual act of casual sex. Their dishonesty with themselves is more the culprit. Doing something against their better judgment, for them personally, is the culprit. Those who are honest with themselves are not the ones having any emotional trauma from casual sex and they are not the ones suffering from any depression which may be associated with it. It's not a one shoe fits all kind of thing.

I see this type of bashing and blame laying as the same as those who pressure people to have kids when in their heart of hearts they really don't want them. You must act and do x, y or z, according to me, or there's something the matter with you. Rubbish. If we were all meant to act, react and be idential in thoughts, feelings and deeds, there'd be no need for options about anything. We'd live in identical houses, wear idential clothing, have 1.2 kids, etc. - mindless. Believing an author who makes a statement and it being believed in totality without doing your own research on the topic is fairly mindless and the sign of a person who is pretty programmable. People thought the world was flat too, just because someone said so.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 136
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:30:59 PM

#155 I’m glad to see there is a whole theory and scientific explanation that explains my choice to stay celibate till marriage

If you didn’t know the theory when you made your choice, then the theory doesn’t really ‘explain’ your choice. You made your choice for other reasons.

When we see something that ‘confirms’ the attitudes we already have, we tend to believe it – without the same skepticism and scrutiny we’d have if we didn’t agree. See how that works? We believe it because we like it. Not because it’s true. That’s human nature.

You’re still allowed to believe it, of course. And to remain a virgin til marriage. I don’t think anyone here has said there’s anything inferior about that choice or the people who choose it.

We have been challenging Dr. Miriam Grossman’s whole theory and scientific explanation however, her methodology and the possible influence of her political leanings and religious affiliations. Being human, it’s possible that she too believes something because she likes it.

By the way, the female body releases enormous amounts of oxytocin during orgasm, with a partner or through masturbation. And it’s a good thing too…

Stress ; Oxytocin de-stresses. Clitoral orgasms diminish stress. Now you know why you fall asleep after great sex.

cancer ; Stress increases prolactin secretion. Oxytocin regulates prolactin secretion. Orgasms therefore decrease cancer risk.

obesity ; Oxytocin also regulates appetite, through receptors in the brain. Oxytocin inhibits appetite to prevent obesity.

bacteria ; Oxytocin is a natural antibiotic, attacking hostile bacteria, decreasing susceptibility to uterine infection.

behavior ; Oxytocin is anti-psychotic ; oxytocin plays an important role in the regulation of normal cognitive functions and behaviors, which are disturbed in schizophrenia. Some forms of obsessive-compulsive disorder are also related to oxytocin dysfunction.

Oxytocin also gives you fighting spirit.

memory ; Oxytocin plays a key role in meltdown of prior learning in preparation for new learning, like new books in a library have to be catalogued and shelved.

Pacman ; female masturbation results in higher scores at Pacman. Honest.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 137
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:36:24 PM

for me a LACK of casual sex depresses me !


He, you THIEF! That was my earlier line on this thread....I DEMAND copyright money donations NOW! (lack of money to go with your lack of sex, teehee)


lol!
 ricikatroski
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 138
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:48:34 PM
you see in the end of conversation j will give my state because j dont want to criticize others statements.why,why j need explenation girlas are bringing them selfs in this kind of situation j mean you don,t have general knowledege how the things suppost to go how the things suppost to develop how to feel is this the right man for her.common give me a break this is not man,s issue this is a problem that females have to know what to do which step to take because we all know that this two sex cannot developed if they are seperated.we cannot forget how big is the sexxual activity in this begginer part of our lives so they have to make sure that they don,t regret about they mistakes that shouldn,t happened.
 pasmal
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 139
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 4:37:24 PM
Why is this a popular thing to bash?
Why is this a popular thing to promote -it does fine on its own--people have always had it and always will.
Maybe it's the label that's unnecessary.
The world is these days is more pro casual sex, nsa, fwb, fb than ltr, and it seems dating these days is really just hooking up for the most part, unless people want kids and family.
I agree men get depressed by a lack of casual sex-- I said this early on, to give them the variety they crave.
This is what the male fantasy is and has always been.
I think the ones saying they don't care for fwb, or engage in it are in the minority.
Whenever they do, "puritanical" accusations abound--pro fwb types preach tolerance, but apparently can't practice it.
And the "morally superior" accusation...who really gets anything from being "morally superior" in these times?
You just get accused of being religious or conservative, etc., which I am not.
I have no interest in converting anyone--or care what anyone does behind closed doors, I just see through the fake arguments--"oh, this is about being puritanical or controlling, shaming or judging".
No, it's about choices, one doesn't have to do that, or else get fake arguments about being "guilt driven"--which are more justifications for being pro fwb, when nobody cares that you are.
No justifications are needed.
Some people just don't get anything out of casual sex--what a concept.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 140
view profile
History
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/30/2012 6:47:04 PM
@ msg 163- absolitely the point here! Personal choice, no need to defend or justify.

Thank you for all the data, mutedenthusiasm, although even you admit that casual sex need not be a part of the equation.

I am off to play pacman!
 dsleeth
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 141
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:41:41 PM
We are not designed for casual sex. The reason people engage in it is bc of unresolved issues. For women, it's usually bc they haven't forgiven their fathers. Forgiveness is for the person who was wronged, not for the violator.

Men, it can be the same-issues with their birth mother that they haven't forgiven yet.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 142
view profile
History
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/31/2012 5:03:16 PM

The "your not worth dating your only worth f*(king" can especially assault a womans self confidence when it seems like every single guy she meets is only after one thing and as fast as he can get it then he's out the door.


How does the saying go? Women are looking for everything in a man, while men are only looking for one thing in a woman.

Some people can handle it, some people can't. Many people -think- they can handle it, but when push comes to shove, they get a rude awakening. I have seen the dynamic many a time and it seems like someone (usually the woman) always wants more out of the bargain.

I remember a conversation I had with a friend where she was talking about how men are only good for sex, despite the fact that she wants to eventually get married and have kids. I mentioned that I have blatantly used women before, and then all of a sudden, I am an @sshole because of my behavior. I guess when she uses men, however, it's some form of liberation. I chalk it up to the idea that women are somehow more valuable to society than men are.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 143
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/1/2012 3:21:00 PM
Mesgs #160,161
Can you cite your sources for making these statements...have there been studies done?


Some people can handle it, some people can't. Many people -think- they can handle it, but when push comes to shove, they get a rude awakening. I have seen the dynamic many a time and it seems like someone (usually the woman) always wants more out of the bargain.

I'd be inclined to agree with this. That is one of the problems with fwb-another is the mislabeling of pure sportf*cking as "fwb".

Don't misunderstand my next remarks-because I am certainly NOT anti-marriage/anti-committed relationship!
BUT-we get clobbered-almost DAILY!-with the statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce. Is that because people haven't forgiven their parents(forgiven them for WHAT,btw??!)
Cindy O
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 144
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/1/2012 3:38:53 PM
There’s this weird vibe goin on this thread that only FWB relationships fail….that if ONLY a woman saves herself for…marriage, apparently….that she’ll live happily ever after, with her sexual virtue forever protected by her adoring husband. I’m living proof that delusion is crap. (And I suspect I’m not the only one.)

I have more respect for a woman who makes her own sexual choices than a woman who allows herself to be bullied by others into her chastity belt.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 145
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/1/2012 4:04:53 PM

We are not designed for casual sex.

You're designed for anything you feel comfortable doing.

The reason people engage in it is bc of unresolved issues.

People engage in casual sex because it's enjoyable. What holds them back is the attitude instilled in them by their parents and by society. An attitude can be changed.

For women, it's usually bc they haven't forgiven their fathers.

Or perhaps it was just because a woman saw a hot guy, felt butterflies in her stomach and wanted to get laid and have a good time.

Men, it can be the same-issues with their birth mother that they haven't forgiven yet.

I'd have to say that it was always just being in the right place at the right time and running into a woman who was in the right mood to hit on me.
 RedElectric
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 146
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 4/3/2012 11:56:05 PM
what I gather from all of this is that men and women speak different languages and never in a million years will a guy understand what a woman goes through in love/relationships/sex.

and most of the people here won't believe any studies until someone they find noteworthy says it's truth.

and sure, it's ALL the womans fault for having sex!! they purposefully go out looking for fuck buddies! the man has absolutely no say in the matter at all. *rolls eyes*

crap shoot
 R00T
Joined: 3/13/2012
Msg: 147
Casual linked to depression
Posted: 4/4/2012 12:40:47 AM
Man or woman blaming their own behavior on something or someone else doesn't solve the problem. Watch too much tv or drinking can cause depress also. So it is the tv's fault? No, to be truly get over the situation one must take responsibility for their own actions. A lot of strippers are very depressed, yes some do drugs and some don't but they commonly are depressed but it's not their male customer's fault. Most of them had some kind of abusive growing up and just happened to get into stripping. Blaming someone else doesn't change anything because not taking responsibility won't solve the problem.
I have personally heard a phone call where a woman called a guy on cell phone begging him to come to her place to sex. A bunch of us heard on the speaker. Nobody made her call him for sex and for sure he wouldn't be pay for sex. It just shows even women want casual sex. It's not a gender based thing. Studies can be twisted to whatever the author wants. Maybe a peer reviewed study would be more believe for more people.
Why don't people understand it's not a gender issue?
Since when does I'm the victim card solve the problem?
 WalkingInLondon
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 148
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/4/2012 5:18:11 AM
This book has the biology right, women do release oxytocin during intercourse, but that doesn't mean that women are incapable of having sex without falling in love or wanting a long-term relationship with the deal. As a therapist, I see patients who have many disorders, and some have the effect of leading the women into 'quick fixes' when they are feeling depressed or especially those suffering from bipolar disorder. When there is an underlying problem of psychological disorder, sexual promiscuity often is one of the symptoms. That oxytocin women release makes them feel loved, and when you're depressed you want to feel that, so in essence having sex is a way of self-medicating.

Can the average, mentally healthy woman have casual sex and not become depressed? Certainly! Women have sexual needs just like men, and in some cases higher libidos than men when they get into their mid to late thirties, and it's nice to have someone 'scratch that itch' when you need it. Is it advisable to have random sex partners, even with condom use? No, of course not, because we all know that herpes, warts, and other STDs can be transmitted even with proper condom use. But there are plenty of women in the world that don't want to get married or in a serious relationship and instead have a good friend that is in a similar situation they can call for a roll in the hay when the urge hits.

College students are not the 'norm' for studying sexual habits, in my opinion. The level of maturity, reckless behavior, situational pressures and changes happening in their lives do not lend for solid choices when it comes to relationships, sexual or otherwise. So, take it with a grain of salt, and go by your own feelings and make choices that you can live with.
 36_Julietta_52
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 149
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/4/2012 6:33:55 AM
If depression were linked to favourite colour, would one assume causation?

My point is that there are waaaaaaay too many variables to consider before deciding that casual sex is directly linked to depression.

Anyway, I see your logic, and I hope my post doesn't come across as me attacking your intelligence, OP, because that's not my intention. :)
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 150
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 4/4/2012 8:19:20 AM

But there are plenty of women in the world that don't want to get married or in a serious relationship and instead have a good friend that is in a similar situation they can call for a roll in the hay when the urge hits.

There is a study published recently in the one of tha apa journals that says much the same thing. Essentially the author concluded that there is really not a large discrepancy in the gender when it comes to casual sex. Women differ primarily by preferring to know their partner is going to be competent in the sack and safe to be with.

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/100/2/309/

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture/casual-sex-men-women-not-so-different-after-all-28451/
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