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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Omaba asks for more "space" until after election !      Home login  
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 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 76
Omaba asks for more space until after election !Page 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Should we assume the same with all the far left sources you're always linking to? That you don't necessarily believe them, but just want to add to the discussion?..

No I would expect one to be able to understand my post based on what information or opion I may or may not have included with it.




It that's the case, I'd think you might want to occasionally refer to something representing an opposing viewpoint, as that would seem to help to further the discussion...

I have done that many times.




I have occasionally in the past, but I usually don't get a response/answer. So for this I'll cede the floor to Paul K, and his twice issued challenge in this thread to the assertions you made concerning the debt that you haven't responded to.

That would be because I have already replied to it and do not feel any need to continue with the discussion.

Based on %'s of what the debt was, Bush increased it more than Obama.

In 2001, the national debt Bush inherited was around $5.7T, give or take. Some of that debt in 2001 has to be attributed to Clinton, just as some of the debt in 2009 when Obama took office has to be attributed to Bush. When W. left office in 2009, the debt was nearly $11T. That’s an increase of 89 percent.

Under Obama, the debt has increased from about $11T to about $15T, about 40 percent.
*


Bush left office with one giant IOU on the table for two wars and a Medicare prescription drug program that Obama has had to deal with.

To not take those things into account is either stupid or disingenuous.


* - http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/has-national-debt-increased-more-under-obama-than-bush/
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 77
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:42:34 PM
PK...you've proved countless times your math sucks...and we should start to cypher along with you now...I think not...not only that you didn;t post it in an manner that was understandable....dude..getta...grip.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 78
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:34:09 PM
Paul thats disingenuous at BEST.

Part of the reason the deficit went up is because Obama put both of Bush's wars ON the books, instead of hiding them, as Bush was doing.

Hell, Bush wouldn't even admit we were in a recession, until he couldn't deny the facts anymore.

The truth and you are not friends it seems.
 6stringsandotherthings
Joined: 1/14/2012
Msg: 79
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 5:45:16 AM
as a gift to Canada for my insulting comment: I freely offer Oboma as your new leader. Please take him off our hands in the name of "good foreign relations".
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 80
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 8:50:52 AM

OneGodfather: Want to know how much Ontario has and where the money goes? Check this out, LMFAO

http://autos.aol.com/article/coins-and-candy-all-over-canadian-highway-after-awful-crash/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D147830
LOL,now you know how much money Maple Sports and Entertainment collects after every season when those sorry sacks Maple leafs doesnt make the play offs Well the sorry Maple laffs can always trade for Mike Green
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 81
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 9:22:20 AM
Meje, you're using logic, critical thinking skills, and the use of nuance, none of which the other side seem familiar with.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 82
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 10:43:00 AM
How exactly should Obama be expected to make decisions about The Missile Defense Program when he is not even assured continued administration?


A U.S. president shouldn't be expected to make decisions about national security, because he's not sure of being re-elected eight months later? That is a take on the subject I doubt many of us have heard before. Imagine President Eisenhower declining, in March, 1956, to make decisions about the size and structure of U.S. nuclear forces because he didn't know whether he'd be re-elected later that year.


It only makes sense that the next incoming administration should be responsible for it.


On the contrary, that makes so sense whatever. What U.S. president running for re-election, while talking to the leaders of a powerful adversary, would be fool enough to undercut his authority with them by saying he didn't expect to be dealing with them after the election?

The recorded comment Mr. Obama made to Medvedev very clearly assumed he would be re-elected. In effect he was telling Putin that once the election was over, he could afford to make the huge cuts in our strategic nuclear forces he wants but doesn't dare make now, for fear of looking weak on national security during the campaign.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 83
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 11:02:05 AM

he was telling Putin that once the election was over, he could afford to make the huge cuts in our strategic nuclear forces he wants but doesn't dare make now, for fear of looking weak on national security during the campaign


Odd...all of the world heard something else...perhaps if you're hearing voices you should do something about that.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 84
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:04:43 PM
"A U.S. president shouldn't be expected to make decisions about national security, because he's not sure of being re-elected eight months later?"

HUH?? I'm guessing you never negotiated anything, gawd help your clients! There is a HUGE difference between making national security policy based on an incident of defense, and an agreement, covering nuclear arms done over a period of time. And in international relations, 8 months AIN'T a lotta time!

"a powerful adversary"

Now color me puzzled again, BUT isn't Russia a member of NATO now, and thereby almost an ally? This isn't the USSR, it's the Russian Federation. I think Russia would love to be convinced and convicted of your view. That they haven't lost a step or 10. That their fleet still dominates the world, instead of a good piece of it(like their subs) rusting in ports from St Petersburg to the Baltic.

Hell THEY don't view themselves in the same way they were at the beginning of the 90's! Oh I know, you have that view that the commies are hiding in the bushes ready to strike a blow for marxism!

It takes hard currency to strike that blow, it takes state of the art ships, a well trained and well paid military. We possess a navy at least 4 or 5 times larger and more powerful than the next 6 largest navies in the WORLD!

I realize for you righties, it's hard to tap dance around the facts, and you have to make sh1t up as you go, but c'mon.

FACTS man, where's the FACTS!!! Show me where Russia is mounting an arms race? Show me where their economy is expanding or their government is moving toward a build up for a new cold war build up?

The ONLY threat we have from Russia, is that some poor and foolish mid-level officer will sell a nuclear warhead to terrorists. Since that is their own capital to trade, to reduce the size of their arsenal, of course it will take some horse trading.

Please take your poor arguments back to the survivalists and militia men it plays with.
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 85
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:15:10 PM



The recorded comment Mr. Obama made to Medvedev very clearly assumed he would be re-elected. In effect he was telling Putin that once the election was over, he could afford to make the huge cuts in our strategic nuclear forces he wants but doesn't dare make now, for fear of looking weak on national security during the campaign.



agreed !
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 86
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:15:32 PM

Odd...all of the world heard something else

Yes. Thank you for telling him what all of us hear. We who move in a progressive fashion really need to inform all who don't agree with us what everyone in the world thinks.
*Applause*
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 87
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 1:39:17 PM
The world heard whatever Barry intended them to hear. Of course he didnt intend the them to hear anything but what the world did hear is whatever is condusive for the re-election of Barry because that is what is best for the whole world. Haven't you heard?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 88
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 2:35:49 PM
There must be loads of rightwingnut's hearing voices...really there's effective drugs that will stop the voice's schizophrenics hear...

But, for those of ya'll that think they might not have a mental illness and perhaps only heard talking head talking points here's what was said:



Here’s the exchange:


President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/03/26/obama-comments-to-medvedev/

I wonder why when the empty suit Romney says he'll win the election there isn't any uproar??? could it be partisanship???nawwwww...not ya'll.

And I'm equally sure that to some of you extreme right wingers you hear space and that really means giving away the farm...that must be either those voices in your head or it's a regional term that dayum near the rest of the workld isn't familiar with.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 89
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 3:22:24 PM
I don't mean to make it seem simplistic but the truth is we ARE different countries with different ideas and strengths, each great in their own respect.

Funny... for some reason THAT sentiment NEVER seems to make it out of the mouths of most US conservatives... They seem completely unable to accept the idea that other countries are also free, also have constitutions (some of which actually provide even MORE personal freedoms than the US Constitution, like Canada for example)... They seem completely unable to understand that people who aren't US citizens have every bit as much right to express opinions, even about the US, as they do NO MATTER how negative those opinions may be... EVEN MORE to the point, they seem completely unable to understand that some of these people might actually BE 'natural born' US citizens ( as though they believe that no TRUE American would ever live someplace that offers as much (and sometimes more) freedom and opportunity (but without all the jingoistic fervor that is so common among US conservatives. And, just to be clear, 'jingoism' and 'jingoist' are not positive traits, any more than 'nationalism' was a positive trait in Spain or Italy or Japan or another unmentioned nation during the "between world wars" years) even though a great many of us do...

Some of us even look at it as a personal attack, myself included

I would suggest that 'some of us' learn to separate the 'personal' (that which is 'about the person') from the 'impersonal' (that which is not 'about the person')... We might see just a little bit less of that jingoism that is, once again, raising its ugly spectral head in a big way...


bashing republicans

= bashing American government btw

See...? This is more of that confusing the 'personal' with the 'impersonal'... and DEFINITELY more of that jingoism I was referring to...

My opinions don't have to jive with other's, I just get pissed when stupid ppl spout stupid stuff and b1tch about a country they don't even live in and a military they have never fought for/in/with

AND YET... you b!tch and moan about 'bashing' and 'trolling' EVEN when it comes from an American veteran (like myself, for instance)... Funny that, and yet, apparently, no cognitive dissonance seems to be felt even though the dissonance is obvious to all outside...


That was just Americans thinking they own the world again

And THAT! Ignorant sweeping generalizations piss me off too!

And yet that very statement (which pisses you off) is EXACTLY the reason the term "ugly American" was coined SO MANY DECADES ago... the very same attitude which has always made it SO VERY uncomfortable to be an American serving in an overseas assignment...

I'm passionate about our military, justice and honesty, God, my family and my friends.

And yet, you don't want to see even ONE WORD posted here that points out any of the failings or flaws in the US military which NEED to be corrected (even though these failings and flaws are now being openly spoken about by some of the top officials and highest ranking officers in the US)...

What I find even more hilarious than the "points" I quoted above is that all this is coming in a thread where the topic is about Obama 'putting off' further disarmament talks until after the soon-to-come election as any President would...
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 90
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 5:52:42 PM

FACTS man, where's the FACTS!!! Show me where Russia is mounting an arms race? Show me where their economy is expanding or their government is moving toward a build up for a new cold war build up?


Relations have been good with the Russians for some years now.This new proposed system to supposedly counter an Iranian nuke threat is in fact making the Russians very uneasy.It upsets the balance in Europe.Missiles fired from these bases can be theoretically aimed in any direction.What Russia has stated is that if this system is implemented,their leadership will actively seek methods to counteract this threat....they are serious.

Obama has to deal with all the yahoo rednecks that talk so tough...Romney talking tough after he dodged service in Vietnam.Only in America.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 91
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 6:39:17 PM
Missile Defense is a huge, controversial issue. It is not the type of issue that can be solved appropriately in eight months . . . President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."


I don't understand your point. First you claimed Mr. Obama didn't get involved in this complex matter now out of consideration for the next administration. That is, he didn't want to rush into any agreement that would bind his successor. That would only make sense if Obama didn't expect to be re-elected. But his comments to Medvedev suggest just the opposite.


and the confusion over it could cost him his administration if improperly handled


I don't know what confusion you're talking about, but anything that could help defeat the national embarrassment in the White House is at least worth considering.


Missile defense is unnecessary, it is a danger to you,


That's your opinion. A lot of people who have studied this subject in detail don't share it. I don't see why building a defense against a limited nuclear missile attack by a regime like North Korea's or Iran's should create any danger to the U.S. I'd expect just the opposite. Ordinarily, defenses decrease the danger from offensive weapons.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 92
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 7:32:58 PM
Right from the start it's been recognized that the best way to beat a missile defense is by sending lots and lots of missiles. Even back in the 70's this was the impetus that lead to the first nuclear limitation agreements between the US and USSR. As long as you're willing to send 10 times as many missiles as you need to, you're going to get enough through. And more missiles means greater risk.

That's why Russia is concerned. It's destabilizing and if the US builds this, Russia has to respond. Even though relations are friendly, if Russia started deploying a system to stop American missiles, then the US would get freaked out pdq.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 93
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 9:33:16 PM
Petey grace and Godfather, glad you find that crash so funny. 2 people are in the hospital with life threatening injuries.
So you get upset when people 'pick' on your country Petey, yet you find it hilarious when people are in a horrific accident? Strange standards.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 94
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 12:04:13 AM

You sir have ventured into absurdity, especially given your last statement that Iran and North Korea are a threat.


If I have, I have plenty of good company along. North Korea has been developing missiles for decades now, and its latest designs have a range of several thousand miles. It is now planning to launch a satellite next month. Ever since Sputnik in 1957, it's generally been accepted that a country with missiles powerful enough to put satellites in orbit could also deliver nuclear weapons on missiles with intercontinental range. And North Korea is known to have tested a nuclear weapon.

Iran has been Pyongyang's most important customer, and several of its missiles are pretty much copies of North Korean designs. Iran is also developing nuclear weapons. That means two nations run by authoritarian regimes, and with long records of hostility toward the U.S., are getting uncomfortably close to having long-range nuclear missiles.

People responsible for U.S. defense policy have been watching these developments for quite a while. And some years ago, the U.S. (absurdly, of course) decided it would be prudent to develop defenses against limited missile strikes from both North Korea and Iran. Maybe the news of all this never reached you.

Responding to the potential North Korean threat, the U.S. has built a base for defensive missiles in Alaska and another one in California. The cancelled missile and radar facilities in Poland and the Czech Republic were a similar response to the potential threat of an Iranian missile strike.

There is also a ship-based component to this limited missile defense. Several U.S. cruisers have already been refitted to intercept medium-range ballistic missiles, and more cruisers and destroyers are to get the same modifications. The idea is to build several layers of defense, so that any missile that got through one layer would be destroyed by the next one.

To imagine that one missile site and one radar site in Eastern Europe would have been at all useful against a large strike such as Russia might launch is a *real* venture into absurdity. And any strike on the U.S. from bases in Russia would pass over the Arctic, not Eastern Europe. Those sites posed no direct threat whatever to Russia. Its real concern is that as former Iron Curtain countries draw closer to the West, Ukraine, Georgia, and maybe other places too will become part of a U.S. military alliance.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 95
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:32:05 AM
OyVay: I'm going to have to more than puzzled, and actually dangerously ignorant in some ways:

isn't Russia a member of NATO now, and thereby almost an ally?


No, Russia is NOT a member of NATO. In fact, we came close to blows with Russia, because we wanted to set up missile protections in NATO countries, ostensibly to protect themselves from the Middle East adversaries.

Russia is still very far from being an ally. When the Communist world fell in the 90's, those of us who actually had some insight into what was involved with the competition between East and West, had never been simply about things like "means of production," and Capitalism and profits.

Russia had a VERY long history, long before then, struggling to compete and progress against the rest of Europe, owing to various crippling features of the particular patch of ground they lived on. If anything, Communism and the ringing down of the "iron curtain" after WW2 was actually part of a very old problem Russia always had, of trying to achieve equality in the world by closing itself off, rather than participating at a disadvantage with the West. Communism was supposed to allow them to be so self-sufficient and progressive, that they could achieve equality or even dominance over the West. In the event, for various reasons, it instead acted to prevent them from accomplishing much of anything, and now they are at an even worse position than they were 80 years ago. Hence they are just as hostile towards the rest of the world as they ever were. They just don't say so quite as fanatically clearly as they did under Communism.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:35:26 AM
If I have, I have plenty of good company along.


Not a stretch to see that many uber-conserative have found more said from:


Here’s the exchange:


President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/03/26/obama-comments-to-medvedev/


then was actually said...but, these uber-right minded people aare able to see inside of other people's minds and suss out the most peculiar intreptations.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 97
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:51:05 AM
Thanks Irish! I always find that you like REALITY in these things, and I much appreciate it.

Indeed, I think that what Obama said was relatively unimportant. Even obvious. But it was a vague generality, nothing more. If anything, I think it was a silly thing to say out loud, simply because it's such an old and obvious fact, that Putin or any other leader doesn't need to be told that leaders in the midst of running for election, have different limits to what they can and can't publicly talk about than those who are not.

All in all, I think this has from the beginning, been blown wildly out of proportion. It's a nothing, a nonsense aside, without content.
 4408joseph
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 98
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:23:07 AM
Thanks for the entertainment... By that I mean the actual people that are surprised..

When he said he was gonna be transparent, I saw through it like a x-ray tech
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 99
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:29:36 AM
Well Part deux, I didnt find the accident funny, I found her comment funny, and second Im Canadian and actually live not too far from the accident.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 100
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History
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 8:17:30 AM
All I know, is that you and Petey think it is appropriate to make jokes about an accident that has been described in the press as " awful" and " horrific" a mere 2 days after it occured. I find it obscene, but obviously, we all have different upbringings, moral codes and values.
As for President Obama's comments, I can't believe that people are creating a huge conspiracy around them. It seems like standard foreign relations.
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