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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Omaba asks for more "space" until after election !      Home login  
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 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 90
Omaba asks for more space until after election !Page 5 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

FACTS man, where's the FACTS!!! Show me where Russia is mounting an arms race? Show me where their economy is expanding or their government is moving toward a build up for a new cold war build up?


Relations have been good with the Russians for some years now.This new proposed system to supposedly counter an Iranian nuke threat is in fact making the Russians very uneasy.It upsets the balance in Europe.Missiles fired from these bases can be theoretically aimed in any direction.What Russia has stated is that if this system is implemented,their leadership will actively seek methods to counteract this threat....they are serious.

Obama has to deal with all the yahoo rednecks that talk so tough...Romney talking tough after he dodged service in Vietnam.Only in America.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 91
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 6:39:17 PM
Missile Defense is a huge, controversial issue. It is not the type of issue that can be solved appropriately in eight months . . . President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."


I don't understand your point. First you claimed Mr. Obama didn't get involved in this complex matter now out of consideration for the next administration. That is, he didn't want to rush into any agreement that would bind his successor. That would only make sense if Obama didn't expect to be re-elected. But his comments to Medvedev suggest just the opposite.


and the confusion over it could cost him his administration if improperly handled


I don't know what confusion you're talking about, but anything that could help defeat the national embarrassment in the White House is at least worth considering.


Missile defense is unnecessary, it is a danger to you,


That's your opinion. A lot of people who have studied this subject in detail don't share it. I don't see why building a defense against a limited nuclear missile attack by a regime like North Korea's or Iran's should create any danger to the U.S. I'd expect just the opposite. Ordinarily, defenses decrease the danger from offensive weapons.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 92
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 7:32:58 PM
Right from the start it's been recognized that the best way to beat a missile defense is by sending lots and lots of missiles. Even back in the 70's this was the impetus that lead to the first nuclear limitation agreements between the US and USSR. As long as you're willing to send 10 times as many missiles as you need to, you're going to get enough through. And more missiles means greater risk.

That's why Russia is concerned. It's destabilizing and if the US builds this, Russia has to respond. Even though relations are friendly, if Russia started deploying a system to stop American missiles, then the US would get freaked out pdq.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 93
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/30/2012 9:33:16 PM
Petey grace and Godfather, glad you find that crash so funny. 2 people are in the hospital with life threatening injuries.
So you get upset when people 'pick' on your country Petey, yet you find it hilarious when people are in a horrific accident? Strange standards.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 94
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 12:04:13 AM

You sir have ventured into absurdity, especially given your last statement that Iran and North Korea are a threat.


If I have, I have plenty of good company along. North Korea has been developing missiles for decades now, and its latest designs have a range of several thousand miles. It is now planning to launch a satellite next month. Ever since Sputnik in 1957, it's generally been accepted that a country with missiles powerful enough to put satellites in orbit could also deliver nuclear weapons on missiles with intercontinental range. And North Korea is known to have tested a nuclear weapon.

Iran has been Pyongyang's most important customer, and several of its missiles are pretty much copies of North Korean designs. Iran is also developing nuclear weapons. That means two nations run by authoritarian regimes, and with long records of hostility toward the U.S., are getting uncomfortably close to having long-range nuclear missiles.

People responsible for U.S. defense policy have been watching these developments for quite a while. And some years ago, the U.S. (absurdly, of course) decided it would be prudent to develop defenses against limited missile strikes from both North Korea and Iran. Maybe the news of all this never reached you.

Responding to the potential North Korean threat, the U.S. has built a base for defensive missiles in Alaska and another one in California. The cancelled missile and radar facilities in Poland and the Czech Republic were a similar response to the potential threat of an Iranian missile strike.

There is also a ship-based component to this limited missile defense. Several U.S. cruisers have already been refitted to intercept medium-range ballistic missiles, and more cruisers and destroyers are to get the same modifications. The idea is to build several layers of defense, so that any missile that got through one layer would be destroyed by the next one.

To imagine that one missile site and one radar site in Eastern Europe would have been at all useful against a large strike such as Russia might launch is a *real* venture into absurdity. And any strike on the U.S. from bases in Russia would pass over the Arctic, not Eastern Europe. Those sites posed no direct threat whatever to Russia. Its real concern is that as former Iron Curtain countries draw closer to the West, Ukraine, Georgia, and maybe other places too will become part of a U.S. military alliance.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 95
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:32:05 AM
OyVay: I'm going to have to more than puzzled, and actually dangerously ignorant in some ways:

isn't Russia a member of NATO now, and thereby almost an ally?


No, Russia is NOT a member of NATO. In fact, we came close to blows with Russia, because we wanted to set up missile protections in NATO countries, ostensibly to protect themselves from the Middle East adversaries.

Russia is still very far from being an ally. When the Communist world fell in the 90's, those of us who actually had some insight into what was involved with the competition between East and West, had never been simply about things like "means of production," and Capitalism and profits.

Russia had a VERY long history, long before then, struggling to compete and progress against the rest of Europe, owing to various crippling features of the particular patch of ground they lived on. If anything, Communism and the ringing down of the "iron curtain" after WW2 was actually part of a very old problem Russia always had, of trying to achieve equality in the world by closing itself off, rather than participating at a disadvantage with the West. Communism was supposed to allow them to be so self-sufficient and progressive, that they could achieve equality or even dominance over the West. In the event, for various reasons, it instead acted to prevent them from accomplishing much of anything, and now they are at an even worse position than they were 80 years ago. Hence they are just as hostile towards the rest of the world as they ever were. They just don't say so quite as fanatically clearly as they did under Communism.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:35:26 AM
If I have, I have plenty of good company along.


Not a stretch to see that many uber-conserative have found more said from:


Here’s the exchange:


President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/03/26/obama-comments-to-medvedev/


then was actually said...but, these uber-right minded people aare able to see inside of other people's minds and suss out the most peculiar intreptations.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 97
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:51:05 AM
Thanks Irish! I always find that you like REALITY in these things, and I much appreciate it.

Indeed, I think that what Obama said was relatively unimportant. Even obvious. But it was a vague generality, nothing more. If anything, I think it was a silly thing to say out loud, simply because it's such an old and obvious fact, that Putin or any other leader doesn't need to be told that leaders in the midst of running for election, have different limits to what they can and can't publicly talk about than those who are not.

All in all, I think this has from the beginning, been blown wildly out of proportion. It's a nothing, a nonsense aside, without content.
 4408joseph
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 98
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:23:07 AM
Thanks for the entertainment... By that I mean the actual people that are surprised..

When he said he was gonna be transparent, I saw through it like a x-ray tech
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 99
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:29:36 AM
Well Part deux, I didnt find the accident funny, I found her comment funny, and second Im Canadian and actually live not too far from the accident.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 100
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 8:17:30 AM
All I know, is that you and Petey think it is appropriate to make jokes about an accident that has been described in the press as " awful" and " horrific" a mere 2 days after it occured. I find it obscene, but obviously, we all have different upbringings, moral codes and values.
As for President Obama's comments, I can't believe that people are creating a huge conspiracy around them. It seems like standard foreign relations.
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 101
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 8:36:48 AM
Part Deux, do you have anything to bring to the table besides moral outrage on a topic that has nothing to with the thread in hand?

And its President Obama, If I was referring to your premier of your province I would address him as Premier Charest, just like when I refer to my prime minister as Prime Minister Harper.

Every one is entitled to their opinion of the President, that is what comes with the territory when you are leader of one the Super powers in the world, conspiracy theories run rampant, doeskin make it true.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 102
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 8:47:16 AM
Thank you for correcting me, I was not trying to show a lack of respect to the President of the USA.
See, it is not hard to admit you were wrong. You should try it sometime.
Funny how you don't correct those who are obviously changing the POTUS' name into a deliberate insult, yet show " moral outrage" at my oversight.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 103
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 8:58:19 AM
a bit of electioeering as far as i can see

though putin is a wily auld fox

youse lot should give russia today a gander now and then

http://rt.com/
 OneGodfather
Joined: 3/4/2012
Msg: 104
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 9:07:45 AM
I will be correcting those that refer to him disrespectfully as well, I'm not a fan of the President but I'm not going to disrespect him either or any political leader.

I know one has refer to him as "mr howdy doody" and Ive seen a few others insults and I think its wrong.... you dont like the man ..fine , disrespecting the title he has earned no matter what one thinks of him is B.S.

I also am not a fan of President Bush, President Clinton , heck even Prime Minister Harper, but I'm not going to disrespect them either.

If Jack layton was alive and became Prime Minister I would still call him Prime Minister Layton * sorry I was coughing as I was typing that* I cant believe I could say that with a straight face and I cant stand the man, but if he earned the title I wouldn't disrespect him
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 105
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 9:57:11 AM
"against a limited attack by a regime like North Korea or Iran's"

Whoa whoa whoa, just a little while ago Russia was the threat, now you have moved onto NK or Iran? Hahahaha!! Gotta love the righties, they always have another boogie man to pull out of the closet!

Ahhh...did you fail to read the agreement with NK, about us shipping food there, in exchange for nuclear inspections? Besides did you see the tests? They will be lucky to fly a missile to SK, or Japan, much less the US mainland.

People desperate for food, are not going to start WW3, why is it always doomsday with you people? Besides all that, you have yet to answer my assertion of naval power. With our fleets in positions they already occupy, RIGHT NOW, we would pound them out of existance, in minutes, after the first launch, with Patriot Missiles!!!!

Neither of these 2 nations figure in the naval power figures I spoke of earlier. OUR Coast Guard, is more powerful than their navies!!!!

Please give it a rest, you are grasping at straws. Next you will cite the fleet of Yemen!

The threat was and is, terrorists with small bombs brought onto our shores, not by countries, but by religious fanatics, like those similar in the republican party, who seek to demonize anyone or anything that does not align with their beliefs.


edit to add: Sorry Igor, you were right. I knew they applied. My point is they do not have same military preparedness they had during the coldwar.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 106
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 10:36:59 AM

It seems like standard foreign relations.

And you would be correct... It is pretty standard practice among nations to not enter into protracted treaty negotiations on the cusp of a domestic election...

As for President Obama's comments, I can't believe that people are creating a huge conspiracy around them.

And this is pretty standard practice among the ultra-right US conservatives these days and, since they are the "tail wagging the Republican dog", pretty standard practice among Republicans... Truth and reality has not been seen as nearly as important as what bit of delusion they can reinforce among other rightists (and convince the increasing inadequately educated populace of) for MANY years...

The basic reality of it is, Obama acts as a diplomatic leader and the US right these days has no truck with diplomacy... To them, anything less than 'fist-pounding' and demands backed by force constitutes weakness and a lack of resolve (a lot like 'bible-thumping' when you get right down to it)...
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 107
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 4:48:09 PM
"Russia had a VERY long history, long before then, struggling to compete and progress against the rest of Europe"

History is one of the driving forces in all things. Communism was a great theory, but a bad practice. Shared sacrifice and shared work, for the good of all. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well with human nature, especially with a paranoid madman at the helm. Stalin almost killed as many russians, as WW2 did, over his lifetime in power.

I doubt communism would REALLY work anywhere. Those ambitious enough to rise to the top, would always abuse the power afforded them. Greed isn't any better under our form of government than under theirs.

As for WW2, aside from Germany itself, I doubt any other country, had to endure the 28 million dead and the invasion of their homeland russia did. There is no doubt russia after ww2 had the idea, they had the better mousetrap(communism) and wanted it spread all over the globe. Wasn't that what the cold war was all about?

One of the problems with that system is the inequity in it. If Ivan makes 4 TV's a day and Boris makes 10, there is no incentive for Boris to keep producing at that pace. As for Ivan, don't be surprised if he while keeping his quota of 4(the minimum), makes a less than stellar performing product.

In the end, it was their inability to outspend us and keep up with the next best thing in weapons, the cost of that compared to GDP, in the nation that brought them down. Also their inability to produce and export viable products, to compete against us, the Japanese, and the Germans in world markets. That's a somewhat simplistic explanation I realize, but it will do for the debate here.

Though even given that, being 2 of the larger nations in the world, Russia and China, want to be seen as powers going forward into the 21st century. While Russia no longer has the naval might it had, it still has a formidable army and still has a large arsenal of nuclear weapons. As for China, coming out of a long closed off society, a communist based government, and a thriving economy based on cheap labor, and a huge population, they also want to flex their muscles.

Though in both cases, the peoples of those countries, now have access to western goods AND more amenities, than they have had in the past. It doesn't mean they want war, but it must be hard to live with the USA, dominating the world stage in politics, and trying to set policy for a lot of other countries.

So in the end, the people of those countries may not want war, but the governments may want a more active role in the world. A world they view as dominated by us.

I question though the view that NK, or Iran, are in a position to harm the USA. The question going forward is what will happen in Iran, will they get a bomb? NK is a tale of a different sort. They maybe improving their missiles, but at what cost to that countries peoples? That they would make a swap deal for food in exchange for nuclear inspections, shows how desperate they are.

Our hope has to be, that the Iran situation can be defused, BEFORE it escalates into a showdown between Russia, China and the USA, having been dragged into the conflict by these smaller countries. Not to mention what unilateral action Israel might take.

That is why I say, Obama stepping back before the election makes more sense, than trying to convince them of something or giving more than he has to, to get Russia to reduce it's nuclear stockpile.

Still I will admit, nothing will ever change the idea of Russia and China wanting a bigger role on the world stage, or change their view as to see things as we want them to be, as opposed to how they wish to see things.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 108
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:12:20 PM
fvck me oy i agree with you lol

as a decorator i was always encouraged to read the ragged trousered philanthropists
by robert tressle

it shaped my view on boss worker relationships. although written anout the early 1900's
absolutely nothing has changed in the decorating business

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ragged-Trousered_Philanthropistshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ragged-Trousered_Philanthropists

not all men are equal is the problem. they may have the same right to a view but
some can be easily cajoled

SOMEONE always has to be in charge. if it were left to normal folk i think war
would be a past tense that ancestors fought in

i believe in socialism but with a nationalistic fervour so ive just made my last sentence out to be a load of rubbish lol

a mass of contradictions as are most folk

china's bubble will burst, russia will go extreme nationalistic and hopefully europe will embrace populist nationalism bordering on mussolinis fascist state

maybe not but hey, nowt wrong with dreaming
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 109
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:33:29 PM
Dreaming of Mosley Vlad?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 110
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 6:37:39 PM
well i remember one of the retired speakers of the house of commons saying
mosely was the best prime minister britain never had

his ideas were way ahead of his time

of course his experience of the first world war shaped his view as it did most
of the top bods in the buf

they would be irrelevant now but europe is crying out for leadership

not two faced weasels
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 111
Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:03:41 PM

they would be irrelevant now but europe is crying out for leadership

not two faced weasels


My deceased ex father-in-law toasted Il Duce till his dying days.Increasingly things are looking like people could be ready again if things keep going the way they are.Huge problems to be solved if consideration is to be made for the bankers and people relying on investment income....Greece is just the first....it could become like a schoolyard.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 112
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 3/31/2012 7:15:50 PM
the domino effect


hungary could well be the first

http://www.jobbik.com/


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/hungary/7549950/Rise-of-Hungarys-far-Right-Jobbik-party-stirs-disturbing-echoes-of-the-1940s.html


the hungarian guard. europes future

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VA-ydVuCXo&feature=related

30,305 views so far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNV9Vdg8drg&feature=related

165.278 views so far


bring it on as far as im concerned. im sick of my nation sucking up
the capitalist arse
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 113
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 4/1/2012 8:54:14 AM
You're missing the whole point of the exchange.
IT is a play for time. He either wants to decide later when he is re-elected and deal directly with PUtin (once Putin is re-elected and he is back on the throne now) OR just let the next guy negotiate with Putin.
Either way, Obama got what he wanted which is to kick the can down the road a bit...
Isn't that tactic familiar to us who all know GW Bush's punting technique so well?
And so what? You're mad Obama does it but not when Bush did it?
come on now... :)
 ac_singledad
Joined: 5/2/2008
Msg: 114
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Omaba asks for more space until after election !
Posted: 4/1/2012 2:41:20 PM
I look forward to returning to these forums after Obama is re-elected.
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