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 coderedjulia1
Joined: 5/27/2012
Msg: 202
VegansPage 10 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
If I want an effing burger, then I will have one. I also think its impolite to tell a woman that you will not pay for her meal if she orders meat. I don't care if he is vegan or not, saying something like that comes off as rude. I don't care about paying for the damn burger, but thats like warning someone that they can't enjoy something they will like cause they will have a problem with it. Like he is pushing her to order something off the vegan menu.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 203
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 6:16:03 AM
Do you ever wonder if that salad you're eating is screaming in pain as you put a fork into it? I mean, the vegetables, unless cooked, are still alive while you eat them. Just a random thought....

what, you are boiling the poor defenseless vegetables to death?? don't you know how long it takes vegetables to die in boiling water?? how cruel!

one day i heard this lecture by a hare krisnha "guru" about food and eating and karma. it started off with the usual hectoring on the evil nature of meat eaters but ended up calling vegetarians "potato killers". he was practically shouting.

this of course means your only avenue of ethical escape as an enlightened spirit soul is to recognize the indisputable truth that one is always, always required to kill potatoes in the prescribed manner. because when you say a lot of metaphysical mumbo jumbo over the dead potatoes in front of stone idols (with all due reverence and preferably in sanskrit), after you slice them to smithereens as they scream little potato screams of terror that only potatoes can hear, lord krishna is mightily pleased and then he takes away your bad karma. sez so right there in the bhagavad gita; must be true.

so i thought to myself, "f#ck you man" and then i ate chicken for lunch with a side of potatoes. oh by the way, the chicken was already dead but those potatoes, they weren't happy about the boiling oil.

fast forward 25 years and evidence was building up against "guru" for murder and he also got caught buggering boys up the arse. vegetarians are not superior, but go ahead live on carrots and wheat grass if it makes you feel that way. the end.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 204
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 7:06:34 AM
I'm vegetarian for 6 mos & now trying to be vegan...I've made some positive changes in the last couple of months & I wonder if the change of diet correlates w/ that? ;0P

You are what u eat!
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 205
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 7:21:48 AM
being a vegetarian can work against you or for you depending on other factors. it's not a panacea for good health by any stretch of the imagination. i've known vegetarians who took great pride in being vegetarians but they were also morbidly obese. whoa something doesn't add up... pass the macaroni & cheese lol. i've known other vegetarians who looked frail and weak. I used to work at a food co-op just to get the discounts, and the guy who managed the place liked to crow about following a strict macrobiotic diet. but if anyone ever got around to slugging him for being such a blowhard, they would have broken his jaw.

i've been vegetarian off and on. i first tried it when i was about 18, and i ended up losing almost 15 pounds. i thought it was because i was a vegetarian but that had nothing to do with it. i lost the weight because when i became a vegetarian, i also stopped eating junk food and drinking coke & dr pepper 3 times a day.

it is true that americans eat a lot more meat now than they did decades ago. not only that, but a lot of it is processed or fried or combined with carbohydrates in a way that makes it easy to gain weight because it's already high in fat, OR the fat is added -- cheese, mayo, ketchup, secret sauce, etc. so yes as a general rule you'd probably be better off with less meat and more veggies, but then again you'd be even more better off eating high quality meat but getting rid of all the garbage food that americans love so much, like bread and pasta and sugar in everything (consumed daily and often at every meal), or how about a big mac and a 32-oz diet coke? potato chips. doritos. pizza. eesh.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 206
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History
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 7:37:41 AM

I'm a vegetarian for 6 months& now trying to be vegan....I've made some positive changes in the couple of months & I wonder if the change of diet correlates w/that ?:op
You are what u eat ! [/quote ]


In my opinion there are some truth in that ,you are what you eat, I've seen people who only eat vegetables /fruits and their skin is so beautiful, I am not a fully vegetarian ,I eat little fish/sea foods ,chicken, beef, pork, once in a while when I have cravings but the taste is no longer appealing to me...When I am at a Pilipino 's party I only eat the vegetable that mixed in the meat... Asian cooking are mostly vegetable and we put a little meat in it to flavor..
Becoming a full vegetarian will save me some money , chicken /meat are expensive ,and face foundation/makeup too , so I am expecting to be rich for not spending for meats and makeups.... Just kidding..lol
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 207
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 8:25:14 AM
The whole scene has very little to do with the "Vegan" part. There are enough people just like this guy around to know that some people have a very funny way of thinking. We got em when we talk of religous/spiritual beliefs. We got em when we talk definitions of "drugs". We got em when we talk enviromental issues.

Extremists. Try to shove something down my throat, and I'll shove it up your a s s,,,,,without the lube.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 208
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History
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 8:28:09 AM
Vanniji...that's my experience with most folks who seek a healthy diet and lifestyle. I like to attend raw vegan, vegan and vegetarian get togethers. There are few 'purists'. Most attendees like to mix with like minded people and get new ideas for meals and nutrition. Great to be an an event with folks of all ages and just about everyone is a good weight and has a healthy glow.

I don't prepare or eat meat at home but also don't avoid it at a friend's house if it's in the spaghetti sauce or whatever. Most advocates of vegetarianism are 'mostly' vegetarian.

Re comments by non vegertarians and their dire warnings. Be leary of their personal stories that start with 'I know vegetarians and blah, blah...' No idea how they personally know all of these vegetarians and their health history unless they are a Hindu or member of similar non-meat consuming faith.
 AddHomonym
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 209
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 9:48:46 AM

Should he impose his ways on her?


Just another igrint zealot. Why do we bother giving these people the time of day? STFU is the only appropriate response to such people.

I was a vegetarian for several years at one point. Even then, I couldn't stand to be around vegans. I started to notice that I had a habit of "accidentally" biting into the insides of my cheek or tongue hard enough to draw blood. The moment I started to eat meat once more, this never happened again.

If you see yourself as an apostle trying to convert the world, I don't want to know you, regardless of what your belief system happens to be.
 JoseMadre
Joined: 1/9/2012
Msg: 210
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 10:32:47 AM
To the OP. She went out with the guy knowing that he would not pay for a meal that contains meat. She then ordered a burger? It's on her. She should have declined the date. He was not imposing his ways on her. If anything, she was trying to impose her ways on him by attempting to force him to violate his conscience.
 coderedjulia1
Joined: 5/27/2012
Msg: 211
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 10:42:22 AM
I respect the decision to be vegetarian for health reasons. But a lot of people I know are just vegans for animal equality and still eat horrible even with no meat on their plate. I see them eating junk food, white bread..etc. Nothing that has any nutritional value. At least meat has some of the nutrition you need like vitamins and minerals, and most people also eat veggies as a side. If you want to be a vegan, eat healthy. Don't eat a bunch of junk that has no nutritional value.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 212
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History
Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 12:36:49 PM
To the OP. She went out with the guy knowing that he would pay for the meal that contains meat. she ordered a burger ? It's on her. She should have declined the date. He was not imposing his ways on her. If any thing she was imposing herways on him by attempting for force him to violate his conscience



Perhaps the lady did not know that is coming when he invited her for a dinner date and she accepted it, then it follows that he was not going to pay for her plate if there is meat in it,she will pay for it. ( she agreed didn't she ?).

Mr. Genius ,she is not a child to be talk that way,and HE IS NOT HER FATHER to control her that she has to eat vegetable solely... She paid her meals ,,, whats the problem now ??

She was imposing her way on him by attempting to force him to violate his conscience ?

She is her own woman, she can eat a whole horse if she wants too, with nobody's business. This is the most stupid thing ,I've ever heard that because she doesn't take the "warning" she violate his conscience? Well the guy should blow his head and get a new brain so he can live happily with carnivorous people, that is around this planet... If you are clone to that guy ,you do too...
 Molly Maude
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 213
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Vegans
Posted: 11/12/2012 1:13:38 PM
I loved Motown's description of the deadly "potato killers!"

if you follow the premise that you don't want to KILL something just to nourish your own
body ... firstly, of course, you're downplaying your right to live ...

but the natural conclusion that line of thinking (NOT killing anything to nourish your own
body) is that, rather than KILL a living being, be it peas or potatoes or carrots ... that line of
thinking would bring you to the conclusion that you'd have to live on pieces of dry bark and
dried leaves ... and, truly ... dry bark and dried leaves were designed to nourish the soil ... so
now you're trading your nourishment for the soil's nourishment ...

me? I prefer to go with the equipment that came with my body ... and assume that I should
be if not carnivorous ... (sharp teeth, eyes in the center of my face indicating a predator
rather than on either side of my face indicating the prey, etc.) ... I should be at least an
omnivore ... considering my mad skills at planting and harvesting foods ...
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 214
Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 8:14:33 AM
"being a vegetarian can work against you or for you depending on other factors. it's not a panacea for good health by any stretch of the imagination. i've known vegetarians who took great pride in being vegetarians but they were also morbidly obese. whoa something doesn't add up... pass the macaroni & cheese lol. i've known other vegetarians who looked frail and weak. I used to work at a food co-op just to get the discounts, and the guy who managed the place liked to crow about following a strict macrobiotic diet. but if anyone ever got around to slugging him for being such a blowhard, they would have broken his jaw."

All straw man arguments. The truth is that many people can point out a smoker who lived til 90 and never got cancer, or someone who never ate a vegetable in their lives and had perfectly good health at 40.

The way to get to the truth is to look at macro-studies following Vegetarian, Vegans and those eating a healthy diet and those eating a bad diet and compare results. If I were to pick my friends, my healthiest looking friends drink too much, smoke pot and don't eat regularly (at least they look the healthiest on the outside). But they are are all under 30, so who knows what they will look like when they are 50.

I am under 40 and have given up red meat, dairy, reduced oils and egg yolks, on top of the fact I reduced Sugar, no Soda and lowered my white carb intake. My Cholesterol is now low, my blood pressure is good and I have lost 20 pounds. Is it due to me not eating red meat? Not sure, but I am sure that my current diet is better for me than what happened to me before (I had a heart attack) I made the change.

In actuality, my diet is so good that I am reducing the number of heart health related pills I took before I had my heart attack. My only wish was not adopting this diet 10 years ago.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 215
Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 8:30:48 AM
My diet in the last 6 mos is better than it ever has been in my life! I am still overweight, but not as much & I have los quite a few inches. I suspect my cholesteral is reallyy good, cuz even b4 my change it was good, it mus be even lower now...I avoid processed foods, sodium, etc. I do not like to eat empty calories in the way of starches...

I am 4 animal rights, & recently donated over 90% of my leather products, switched to vegan makeup, research animal cruelty stuff b4 I buy anything...

I try 2 be vegan, but sometimes I am sure I eat some baked thing that has a touch of egg or dairy in it, but when making my own food a home, it is vegan all the way...
 AddHomonym
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 216
Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 9:11:01 AM

I am under 40 and have given up red meat, dairy, reduced oils and egg yolks, on top of the fact I reduced Sugar, no Soda and lowered my white carb intake. My Cholesterol is now low, my blood pressure is good and I have lost 20 pounds


Wow, you've nailed almost all of the popular fads from recent memory. Without trying to be too abrasive, you sound like a victim to me. I'm sorry to hear that you spend so much of your energy on this stuff but that is entirely your choice.

Also, having suffered a heart attack at such an early age means that you were probably counselled by nutritionists and dietitians for good reason. There are very important steps that someone in your special circumstances needs to be mindful of. Good for you for taking these proactive steps towards better health.

The point at which your efforts become the justification to judge others is where we part ways however.

I'm more of a generalist, a live and let live sort of guy who believes that all things in moderation is a wiser way to go. I reject these diet fads that trumpet notions of self-denial and offer adherents validation of their own delusions of grandeur.

My own medical condition is the kind of thing where every single person I meet "knows" exactly what I need to do to get better. Most of their advice is contradictory and occasionally dangerous or risky. None of it is science-based. I try to avoid taking things on faith, especially where my health is concerned.

Whatever people choose to put into their own bodies is their business. When they condemn the rest of the world for not following their example, they become a problem.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 217
Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 10:15:57 AM
The way to get to the truth is to look at macro-studies following Vegetarian, Vegans and those eating a healthy diet and those eating a bad diet and compare results

your strawman arguments about macro-studies following vegetarians and vegans around like they're fundamentally superior to everyone else.

there are BAD vegetarian diets and there are GOOD ones. it's unusual to make yourself sick or malnourished on a vegetarian diet, because most vegetarians are more health conscious than other people, but it can be done. for example, weighing 280 pounds when you are a 5'7" woman is not healthy no matter how ultra-orthodox of a vegetarian you are (the "proud" vegetarian i mentioned earlier.) this is a women who was sure of everything to the point of keeping chickens in her kitchen for the winter because it was too cold for them to be outside, but she couldn't figure out why she needed a tommy lift to get in and out of her van.

additionally, there are CO-FACTORS that play a role in the definition of "bad" or "good" foods for any particular person. some of it is genetic; some of it is not. people with diverticulitis shouldn't eat white bread. people with blah blah blah should stay away from all gluten and wheat products (gluten can cause a myriad of health problems). people with shellfish allergies shouldn't eat shrimp. my god where is the epi pen???? just because *you* had a heart attack and went on a strict diet, that doesn't mean everybody else should give up eggs and red meat.
 lovefun99
Joined: 6/14/2010
Msg: 218
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Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 11:18:32 AM
I have it quite entertaining to find that most "vegetarians/vegans" that I meet are grossly overweight/obese. But like a friend said to me once after I commented on how shocked I was that this obese woman in our class was a vegetarian :
" there's no meat in ice cream, is there?"
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 219
Vegans
Posted: 11/13/2012 2:31:36 PM

The way to get to the truth is to look at macro-studies following Vegetarian, Vegans and those eating a healthy diet and those eating a bad diet and compare results.

which truth?

In actuality, my diet is so good that I am reducing the number of heart health related pills I took before I had my heart attack. My only wish was not adopting this diet 10 years ago.


mazel tov ! . . but your diet may not necessarily be essential to others for good heart health:


Siri-Tarino, 2010[18] 5–23 years of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.


i'd happily pay for my own bacon cheeseburger, as for any pulpiteer pushing a personal agenda?

zip it
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 220
Vegans
Posted: 11/17/2012 7:37:42 AM
"your strawman arguments about macro-studies following vegetarians and vegans around like they're fundamentally superior to everyone else."


First off, I never said that looking at Macrostudies are pro-or-con to the vegetarian lifestyle. I merely represented the fact that I will never take the advice or wisdom or someone who said "All my friends are meat eaters and they are healthy and all my vegan friends are sickly" over a study that looked at 20, 30 THOUSAND member over a long period of time.

Mainly because there is often an agenda and secondly making assumptions based on a sample size of 1, 2 or 5 people is not representative.


"it's unusual to make yourself sick or malnourished on a vegetarian diet, because most vegetarians are more health conscious than other people, but it can be done. for example, weighing 280 pounds when you are a 5'7" woman is not healthy no matter how ultra-orthodox of a vegetarian you are (the "proud" vegetarian i mentioned earlier.) this is a women who was sure of everything to the point of keeping chickens in her kitchen for the winter because it was too cold for them to be outside, but she couldn't figure out why she needed a tommy lift to get in and out of her van."


Again, strawman. This woman's experience may or may not be the norm. The only thing that provides any sway with me is either a personal experience that provides context or a macrostudy that is more definitive than what happened someone else.


"just because *you* had a heart attack and went on a strict diet, that doesn't mean everybody else should give up eggs and red meat. "


I've never asked anyone to give up eggs yolks and red meat. I find your comment funny because I am a liberatarian politically. All I can do is give my experience and my results (THIS IS A FORUM AFTER ALL) and ask people to look at Macro studies when making up their mind to go Flexitarian, Pescatarian, Vegetarian, Vegan or stay a meat eater.

What I am not a fan of (but will block ridicule one's right to say it) are people who make up assumptions, make up stories, make up statistics to make a point.
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 221
Vegans
Posted: 11/17/2012 7:52:29 AM
"Wow, you've nailed almost all of the popular fads from recent memory. Without trying to be too abrasive, you sound like a victim to me. I'm sorry to hear that you spend so much of your energy on this stuff but that is entirely your choice.

Also, having suffered a heart attack at such an early age means that you were probably counselled by nutritionists and dietitians for good reason. There are very important steps that someone in your special circumstances needs to be mindful of. Good for you for taking these proactive steps towards better health.

The point at which your efforts become the justification to judge others is where we part ways however."


Sorry, I don't get where you think I was a victim, other than being a victim of a heart attack for my poor eating habits in the first 40 years of my life. My problem was not spending enough energy on "this stuff". As for Fads, I never read a book, other than the "China Diet" which I found boring but insightful. And nor have I ever been on a diet before. I am not on a diet now, I just eat healthier.

I find it funny that you consider my eating healthier (Fish, Egg white, less fat, less white carbs, less sugar and salt and less meat (yes I do break down because I live in KC after all) a FAD, while the typical American diet of eating processed foods, fatty fast foods, high percentage of white carbs, sugar and salt is considered "Regular eating"?

As for judging others, the only jugding I see is from you. The only thing I said was show me the proof that Vegans on a macro scale are what the previous poster said they are. Prove to me that they are weaker, more frail, and that many of them are morbidly obese. The previous poster says she has this data because she worked at a co-op, but shopping at a co-op doesn't automatcially mean you are a non-meat eater. I go everyweek to a food co-op and a farmers market and I could use my observation that they all are thinner and healthier than those I see when I go to Price Chopper as well, but the fact is:

1. I don't know if these people at these places are actually Vegan/VEgeatarian or Meat Eaters.
2. I don't know if these people are actually healthy, just because you are not overweight, doesn't mean you are healthy.
3. And I don't know how often they go elsewhere and eat a 72 ounce Porterhouse.
4. Maybe ppl who go to farmer's markets are richer than those people who go to a price chopper (if they aren't like me and go to both place). Many studies have shown that Richer people have, on average, a lower BMI than a lower class person.

hence I didn't bring it up. I only gave my experience. What you do with your health is up to you. And to tell you the truth, I've never met a Vegetarian/Vegan who have "condemned the rest of the world for not following their example" as you put it. Bit of Drama in your argument, don't you say?
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 222
Vegans
Posted: 11/17/2012 7:56:09 AM
"I tried the raw vegan thing for a week.. I felt great for the first few days, and then the dreams started.. by the last day I was jonesing like a crack addict for chips, ready to rip someone's head off until I got them. It was a bit scary, lol...

It's been almost a year for me on a vegetarian diet, and it pretty much chose itself. My body simply couldn't tolerate meat anymore after a month in India without it. I eat salmon/seafood on occasion when I'm craving it though. It's been quite an adjustment. Sometimes a pain in the ass to be honest, and at other times exciting to experiment with new grains/recipes, etc..

I really can't imagine being all holier than thou about what I am choosing to ingest. I mean, it's your body and you will decide what goes in it. Why would I get all parental about it? Seems weird to me. And really, if you are wanting to influence others, the best way to do so is to BE a positive example. Not get all preachy and controlling. "

I couldn't agree with you more. I find the OP post to be weird, because most Vegans/Vegetarians on on this path for their own health, not on everyone else's path. But of course, I've never met someone from PETA either, so maybe my view would change. I consider myself a Flexitarian as well but stay 95% with Fish.

Wish you well on your path.
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 223
Vegans
Posted: 11/17/2012 8:01:50 AM
have it quite entertaining to find that most "vegetarians/vegans" that I meet are grossly overweight/obese. But like a friend said to me once after I commented on how shocked I was that this obese woman in our class was a vegetarian :
" there's no meat in ice cream, is there?"




BTW: Many Vegans avoid dairy as well.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 224
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History
Vegans
Posted: 11/17/2012 10:05:03 AM
lovefun:
I have it quite entertaining to find that most "vegetarians/vegans" that I meet are grossly overweight/obese.


I find it entertaining that you like to make stuff up. Did you enjoy the attention in Junior High? Insecurity because of what?

Again. Few folks outside of vegetarian/vegan groups would know of all these people to generalize about them. Even most vegetarians don't know many other vegetarians. 90% of vegetarianism in western culture is a trend towards eating less meat...not no meat. It's health coinscious individuals who want to impove their own general well being. It's a movemnet that involves everything from eating no meat to eating no meat in the majority of meals. There are few purists among either vegetarians or vegans.

The other reasons for vegetasrianism...animal rights, environmnetal, etc. might be valid but aren't central to most people 's choice to eat less meat. Health, especially in mature individuals, trumps everything else.
 AddHomonym
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 225
Vegans
Posted: 11/18/2012 5:29:10 AM

BTW: Many Vegans avoid dairy as well.


This is puzzling. All of the people I have known who call themselves Vegans, made a point of cutting all animal products out of their lives. Eating meat is murder and keeping animals in cages to harvest them is cruel and "inhumane". No leather, no feathers, no fur, etc. At least, this is the idea anyway. Not one of them was ever successful at it for very long. Even using honey is wrong to this philosophy.

I'm still wondering where I can get a 72 ounce Porter House steak from.

The nicest thing I can say about vegans is that if I had to crash in an airplane in the Andes, I hope everyone else on the flight is a vegan...lol
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 226
Vegans
Posted: 11/18/2012 6:02:05 AM
much of this talk seems to assume the "ONLY" goal in life is longevity..
now of course within reason we probably all wish a longer life rather than a short one, but where does the trade-off occur ? if eating only tree bark and standing on your head for 4 hours a day meant you could live another 6 months vs. eating, drinking & being merry would it be worth it? I submit, no.

I strongly feel that actually being HAPPY & ENJOYING life to the utmost is a factor in longevity, in that you will WANT TO live longer, rather than being an ascetic, self-denying "monk" - type, denying yourself as many indulgences as possible..most have likely seen the story written by the 85- year old woman:" if I had to do it over again, I'd eat less peas & more ice cream"| , etc.

I saw some study about 'caloric restriction' below an estimated 1200 k-cals . a day can supposedly extend one's life, somewhat but then you'd likely be MISERABLE every one of those days so what is the point? scientists did studies with rats & hamsters where the restricted-diet, low-cal. one lives longer..but..even THEY looked miserable, as though they wished they were dead..while the 'control' animals who could eat as they wanted, looked the proverbial 'fat & happy' :)
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