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 cathybait
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 126
VegansPage 6 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Opps m_church---- I don't agree with this comment, it would more so be if a former alcoholic was asked by another alcoholic to pay for their habit.
I agree...
It's like a former alcoholic asking his date to not drink in front of him, but she goes ahead and does it anyway....
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 127
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Vegans
Posted: 4/2/2012 3:23:29 PM
Pattyocakes:
Because that is what vegans believe.It does not need to be stated.It goes without saying.A vegan believes it is wrong to consume the flesh of animals.It's like stating that Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God.It does not need to be stated because this is the basis of the Christian faith.


Wrong. Talk about ignorant use of a broad brush. Do all black people play basketball?

I'm a vegetarian and not as vegan but attended a monthly Vegsan potluck supper yesterday. There were perhaps 30 in attendence and 90% of the talk is health oriented. Nobody had any comments about it being wrong to eat animals. a few do but that's individual choice. A vegan is not like a 'Christian'...it's someone who doesn't consume aniumal products. Anything beyond that is personal belief.
 ALREADY_HAPPY
Joined: 2/25/2011
Msg: 128
Vegans
Posted: 4/2/2012 3:55:28 PM
The guy is a total complete jerk and needs to stop being so selfish and one way. People mostly become vegans because of some animal rights thing. I do not eat much beef or pork because it is grain fed and not grass fed and the animals were slaughtered in filthy conditions. Also they are pumped full of antibiotics to prevent contamination, not to mention growth hormones and other profit motivated injections. If I could find good grass fed pure beef or wild game or buffalo I would rather eat that. People need animal products for b12 and trace minerals as well as protein. The only reason to be a vegan is for health but many are on that band wagon because of the lunatics at PETA.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 129
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Posted: 4/2/2012 5:27:40 PM
Lunatics at PETA.. Ya, really.

PETA vs Mcdonalds, KFC, Burger King, ...etc., etc....fast food crap on every corner...a 600 billion dollar meat production industry.

The attacks on PETA are quite comical. Any cent spent by PETA is squashed ten thousand fold by the meat industry urging mommy to start little Johnny off early in life in consuming a crap diet.
 cathybait
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 130
Vegans
Posted: 4/2/2012 5:55:33 PM
ALREADY _HAPPY--Not true people don`t need animal products for b12 and trace minerals as well as protein, I did not go vegan to become unhealthy.

Fortified Foods
Some foods are commonly fortified with vitamin B12, and this is indicated on the packaging. Fortified foods are the only other food source of vitamin B12 for those who don't consume any animal products. Many breakfast cereals are fortified with vitamin B12 and are recommended by the Office of Dietary Supplements. The Vegetarian Resource Group advises looking for nutritional yeasts, soy milk and imitation meat products made from soybean or wheat gluten that are fortified with vitamin B12 as well.
Supplements
Multivitamins, B-complex vitamin supplements and B12 vitamin supplements are all available over the counter, as the Linus Pauling Institute points out. Vitamin B12 lozenges and tablets are sold as well. While the latter are often marketed as a more readily absorbed form than vitamin supplements, they are generally no more or less effective in this respect, according to the Office of Dietary Supplements.

I could give a list of things which I`m sure your not interested.
 jmark4
Joined: 7/3/2011
Msg: 131
Vegans
Posted: 4/2/2012 11:28:01 PM
again; vegan is the new arrogant elitists. No one is going to dictate what I eat. I'd blow that person off like yesterdays news and make sure I got a burger on the way home.
 MishaBay
Joined: 7/3/2007
Msg: 132
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Vegans
Posted: 4/3/2012 12:33:20 AM
(It's hard for me to give a cogent response to this question because I think in the end vegans are silly, inane people.)

REALLY?? Hmmm....What if I thought people who generalize are quite possibly silly, inane people. Just because people don't do or believe as you do, doesn't mean they are silly. It merely means that quite possibly they have done a great deal of research, and believe their idea of health may be a little different than yours. That same vegan may have a judgment that you are silly or inane if you happen to drink beer or alcohol. It's all each person's personal choice, so why put people down for their choices?

I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian. I choose to use dairy products. However, even if I didn't eat dairy products, that doesn't make me any less of a person than you are. It's all a matter of choice, and the fact that you think not eating meat is silly, I am wise enough to realize that your choice to eat meat is totally your choice, and I would never condemn you for chewing on dead animals.

There is a great deal of misconception on this post about what it means to not eat meat, and most of the snide comments are made by people who have no clue what they are talking about. It's true that Vit B12 is lacking in the vegan diet, but those who choose not to eat animal products can very easily supplement their diet with Vit B12, and that certainly is no reason to put people down who choose a vegan diet.

If you want to have judgment here, I would suggest the judgment be directed toward the controlling behavior of the vegan who attempted to control what someone else ordered.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 133
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Posted: 4/3/2012 2:56:38 AM
It's clear that some people here doesn't like vegans for some ill defined reasons.

OK so lets make a parallel so some people here can start to try and understand, maybe this will hit home.

So this is guy is a Christian. He asks this lady out to a book festival and he says he will treat her to a book, he's known her for a while and she's not a Christian. He warned her that if picks one of these anti-religious/anti-Christian books like the God Delusion or similar inflammatory book then he will not buy the book. They go to the festival and she picks the God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens. Apparently, that caused a verbal fight between them.

What is your opinion on this situation? Should he impose his Christian ways on her?
 cathybait
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 134
Vegans
Posted: 4/3/2012 3:28:10 AM
Neptune74---- if she pay's for the book and he gets mad than he's imposing and is a jerk but if he won't pay for the book even after he warned her but she gets it anyways than she's a @itch if she's mad that he won't pay for it. Now is he really imposing his Christian ways on her?
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 135
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Posted: 4/3/2012 3:53:12 AM
HelloImVegan,

I agree to both cases. In the case of her getting mad, of course he isn't imposing his ways. The case is a parallel and just a reworded version of the original post.

Be it veganism or Christianity or any other way of life or moral framework, just respect the person or don't date them. It's as simple as that.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 136
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Posted: 4/3/2012 1:32:52 PM
dan88anew,

Most comparisons will fail if you analyse them close enough. I can see some more problems with my own comparison, that's not the issue here though.

The issue is that several people see the vegan person as elitist, believing the wrong thing, make the typical threatened response of "No one should tell me what to eat", they tar every vegan with the same brush etc. etc.

I was trying to take the "vegan" out of the discussion and make people see it's a respect of believes issue nothing else.
It's sad to see people have these prejudices against a belief in a moral framework which they don't subscribe to.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 137
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Posted: 4/3/2012 2:25:14 PM
blueceleste,

Sure! That sounds good but it doesn't really answer the question from the PO. :)
I'm not a vegan myself but it's clearly a respect issue of someones ethics and a lot of people here starts slagging vegans off.

Well if the question had been asked the question about a Christian, a Muslim or an Atheist guy taking a girl out with a different belief system and that person expected to be treated to something which isn't in agreement with the guys views and she knew this ahead of time. I wonder if people would see the wrong in that instead. Of course the girl is wrong in this case.

The guy isn't imposing his vegan life style on her, he just wishes to be respected to not pay for meat.
Just look at all the inflammatory comments here:

"No, he should not impose his Vegan lifestyle on anyone."

"This is ridiculous and so is the vegan brain."

"i think he is a loser... i mean , really - what a hypocrtical ugly mess..."

"All of a sudden everyone else is BAD because they eat meat. Makes me want to eat a rare 20oz ribeye in front of them."

"I'll be damned if I let a vegan, or vegetarian tell me what I can or cannot eat. I'll smash a f*ckin burger right in their faces."

"Wow, thats really rude. I'm all for being healthy and choosing to eat veggies as healthy diet, but he sounds like a tree hugger."

"i don't like smoking so i don't date smokers...end of story! i wouldn't dream of pushing my way of life on someone. he shouldn't have asked her out in the first place!!"

"He's an idiot. I'm a vegan and I don't expect anyone else to change their dietary preferences. If the person that I'm seeing eats a healthy diet, then I'm happy with that."

Can't people just see the disrespect by the girl here. Several of these comments are just pure childish, judgemental and revengeful (to someone that done nothing wrong).
 cathybait
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 138
Vegans
Posted: 4/3/2012 2:45:31 PM
It sure is nice to see posts that actually understand and make sense, it's just hard to believe there is so much negativity out there.

Where is the love- by Black Eye Peas, don't think I would ever get sick of this song
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 139
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Posted: 4/3/2012 2:59:31 PM

Be it veganism or Christianity or any other way of life or moral framework, just respect the person or don't date them. It's as simple as that.


Again..veganism isn't a belief system. It's not a moral framework. Bill Clinton is a vegan...psychopaths and sweet grandmas can be vegans. A vegan is someone who doesn't consume animal products for 'whatever' reason. All people who don't consume alcohol or who don't smoke do not share a 'belief' system. The vegans I know are all over the ideological map.

I was at a raw vegan potluck on Sunday. About 30 in attendance. About a dozsen thgere were Hindus...ten or so because of health benefits (like bill Clinton)...another bunch of us were vegetarians who enjoy the wide range of raw vegan foods. Nobody mentioned animal rights in the couple hours we chowed down except for one guest who wasn't a vegetarian and was concerned about a culling of local wildhorses.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 140
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Posted: 4/3/2012 3:12:02 PM

Again..veganism isn't a belief system. It's not a moral framework. Bill Clinton is a vegan...psychopaths and sweet grandmas can be vegans. A vegan is someone who doesn't consume animal products for 'whatever' reason. All people who don't consume alcohol or who don't smoke do not share a 'belief' system. The vegans I know are all over the ideological map.


Sure thing but, and a big but, if a guy expresses specifically that he won't contribute his own money to the consumption of meat you can be pretty damn sure it's not just for health reasons, being a Hindu or just enjoying vegan foods. It's more than likely that it is of moral and philosophical reasons. It might not be a complete moral framework but veganism can be partial one for sure if the reasons are of an ethical nature, like most likely in the given scenario.If we're not going to go by the most likely scenario then we can make tones of assumption of all the subjects posted here and come to no conclusion in any.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 141
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Posted: 4/4/2012 4:41:33 AM


Pattyocakes - Since it was his money that was paying for the meal then his date should of been considerate of his beliefs on the subject.Being a vegan he would believe it is wrong and immoral to consume the flesh of other living creatures,so by asking to pay for meat you are asking him to contribute to what he believes is an immoral act.

Exactly!

To be clear, I am not vegan, but do agree that one should stand by their convictions, and others should be respectful of their beliefs.


If it's an immoral act to consume flesh, then perhaps vegans should restrict themselves to dating other vegans. After all, I wouldn't date someone I thought to be immoral... and I question the beliefs of anyone that would.
 Iona_Bob
Joined: 3/31/2012
Msg: 142
Vegans
Posted: 4/4/2012 4:51:59 AM




If it's an immoral act to consume flesh, then perhaps vegans should restrict themselves to dating other vegans. After all, I wouldn't date someone I thought to be immoral... and I question the beliefs of anyone that would.


I quite agree. As a vegan, I realised I would not want to date Jeffrey Dahmer. We had quite a row over the contents of the ice box.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 143
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Posted: 4/4/2012 5:17:16 AM
If it's an immoral act to consume flesh, then perhaps vegans should restrict themselves to dating other vegans. After all, I wouldn't date someone I thought to be immoral... and I question the beliefs of anyone that would.


What weird thinking. It is rare that couples agree on exactly everything. By your reasoning Jews should only date Jews since otherwise there will definitely be ethical clashes in their respective moral framework, Christians only to date Christians, Muslims should only date other Muslims, political left wingers only to date left wingers and right wingers only to date right wingers, does this make sense to you?

To extend the reasoning, what should a steady couple that's been going out for years and have very similar views do when faced with a new political scenario which they disagree on, a referendum of some new policy which has strong links to ethics? Should they split up? Divorce?

To me there seems to be a lot of negative prejudice against vegans and not a lot of reasoning and common sense in this thread.





I don't go out with vegans, they taste like rotten vegetables.


Similar to your attempt to humour then.
 Iona_Bob
Joined: 3/31/2012
Msg: 144
Vegans
Posted: 4/4/2012 5:25:18 AM

if i threw the fish out, and ignored the reference to vegans then would the words "After all, I wouldn't date someone I thought to be immoral... and I question the beliefs of anyone that would." would i then have a statement of logic, or is there still something to challenge? ....

What's that smell like fish? Anyway, I guess if I don't eat eggs/fish/honey for a few days, I am "vegan" until I break the streak. I was more or less rifting on the "immorality" by referring (catfish feelers in cheek) to the notorious serial killer who ate portions of his victims. :eating:

I am not too concerned about my own convictions with respect to what others consume. I am fortunate enough to be able to choose nearly anything I wish to eat from the cornucopia of a grocery store. Who am I to tell a family in the Andes that they are "immoral" for eating a guinea pig? I actually contribute to an organization that provides animals to people for the purpose of raising/eating. [heifer dot org]

I was making a joke about my "BF" Jeffrey D.
 Iona_Bob
Joined: 3/31/2012
Msg: 145
Vegans
Posted: 4/4/2012 5:48:19 AM

So this is guy is a Vegan. He asks this lady out that he's known for a while and she's not a Vegan. He warned her that if she orders meat as part of her meal, he will not pay for her lunch. They go out to lunch and she orders a burger. Apparently, that caused a verbal fight between them. What is your opinion on this situation? Should he impose his ways on her?

"Should he impose his ways on her?" Dunno. Is he a crusader for animal rights? Why would he spend any $$$$ in an establishment that serves meat? Most metro areas have veggie/vegan restaurants. I think he is a hypocrite if he objects to his money going for a meat meal for his date, yet refuses to see that he is subsidizing the killing/torture of animals by EATING in a restaurant that serves meat.

Sounds like a vegan control freak to me. :33: (And a cheap one, too.)

Should she go? I would ... Paying my own way and asking for meat that is as rare as possible (assuming I ate meat). Since I eat fish, I would suggest sushi. He can have the cucumber roll. I'll gladly pick up the check, if he sits at the counter and watches the sushi chef slicing and dicing the flesh! :drinking:
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 146
Vegans
Posted: 4/4/2012 5:59:49 AM

if i threw the fish out, and ignored the reference to vegans then would the words "After all, I wouldn't date someone I thought to be immoral... and I question the beliefs of anyone that would." would i then have a statement of logic, or is there still something to challenge? ....


Funny how there should be so many vegans on "Plenty Of Fish"...
Insert canned laughs lol
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 147
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Posted: 4/4/2012 8:44:54 AM
Capn america

Not that many vegans...but lots of vegetarians (like me) and those leaning vegetarian.

Most folks who dabble at veganism, attend their potluck dinners, etc. aren't vegans. Just as most at our vegetarian get togethers aren't vegetarians. Most attendees are aware of the health benefits of consuming less meat and attend for new food experiences. I find vegan food by far the most delicious but still eat cheese and an egg now and then.

I was at a raw vegan potluck on Sunday. Most attendees are over 40...many over 65. Quite inspiring that everyone is fit looking and spry. As a guy I'm not used to being in a room in which every women is shapely...takes me back to memories of my hippy days and had never heard of McDonalds.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 148
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Posted: 4/4/2012 9:45:14 AM

What weird thinking. It is rare that couples agree on exactly everything. By your reasoning Jews should only date Jews since otherwise there will definitely be ethical clashes in their respective moral framework, Christians only to date Christians, Muslims should only date other Muslims, political left wingers only to date left wingers and right wingers only to date right wingers, does this make sense to you?
If each of those people felt that it was immoral to have a different belief system, then by all means they should only date someone that they feel fits their stringent moral code.


To extend the reasoning, what should a steady couple that's been going out for years and have very similar views do when faced with a new political scenario which they disagree on, a referendum of some new policy which has strong links to ethics? Should they split up? Divorce?
Now this is taking it to the assinine. You're confusing moral code with political beliefs.


To me there seems to be a lot of negative prejudice against vegans and not a lot of reasoning and common sense in this thread.
Your posts seem to lack a lot of common sense and reasoning.

I'm a very tolerant person in regards to the beliefs and lifestyles of others; I accept that many people feel and live differently than myself. However, when a person is acting in what I feel is an immoral manner, I do not welcome that person into my social circle in any manner. Other than cannibalism, I cannot think of a single dietary choice that I would find to be immoral.

 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 149
Vegans
Posted: 4/4/2012 9:51:39 AM

I find vegan food by far the most delicious but still eat cheese and an egg now and then.

...and yet the other Vegans in attendance didn't verbally horse whip you and cause a fight because of it. Which goes back to the OP. Some here figure that veganism is being discriminated against. It's not (in most cases) - it's a case of the man in the OP discriminating against someone who wasn't a vegan and doing it in a very selective way.
 Neptune74
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 150
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Posted: 4/4/2012 10:59:02 AM

If each of those people felt that it was immoral to have a different belief system, then by all means they should only date someone that they feel fits their stringent moral code.


Sure thing! We don't know everything about the guy in question. We can assume though that he doesn't agree in being part of I certain act himself. If he wasn't tolerant of others eating meat (while paying for it themselves) he would have not asked the girl out. So we can only assume he does not want to participate in one specific act himself. We can not assume he condemns others for having their own beliefs. If the girl gets upset because of him not participating in an act he personally doesn't want to be involved in then the wrong is on her.


Now this is taking it to the assinine. You're confusing moral code with political beliefs.

Absolutely not. I clearly say it's a political policy which has strong links to ethics. Legalize abortion would be such a political policy for example. With improvements in genetic technologies people will face a lot of previously never discussed moral dilemmas.

No, it's not taking it to the asinine, it's a valid rhetorical approach to emphasize what one believe is the dilemma or problem in the discussion. It's a common and normal argumentation technique. Instead of calling it asinine you ought to argue against the point or invalidate why my statement isn't emphasizing the original point made.


Your posts seem to lack a lot of common sense and reasoning.

Common sense has a cultural component, it could be that you failing to see the common sense in my argument could be down to that. Who knows? There is certainly no lack of reasoning in my argument, the reasoning is laid out clear and simple. Even if you disagree of the conclusion of my reasoning you are wrong to say that there is no reasoning.


Other than cannibalism, I cannot think of a single dietary choice that I would find to be immoral.

That is your standpoint, which you are more than entitled to. That doesn't mean that other standpoints are invalid and should not be respected. You know there isn't just one moral framework out there which everyone should adhere to.
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