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 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 73
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?Page 4 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I would never have kids with someone I was not serious with.
Sounds like a terrible idea to do it on purpose.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 74
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/9/2018 8:33:06 AM
2ufo wrote:
I would have to amend that to...
I agree with those who believe it's optimal to have 2 loving parents who know how to disagree like... well, I was about to say adults but we all know how 'childish' some adults can be so I'll say... maturely.
I agree, kinda. I don't think the parents have to love each other, but they do need to love the kids. And as far as disageeing "maturely," well, that's fine, but everyone has arguments, sometimes severe arguments. IMO those are fine too, as long as they're not in front of the kids. Yes, a fake front. Many will disagree. But in many cases still probably better than single parenthood. I guess my point is that the kids' happiness needs to come first, not the parents. But I believe that's considered "old fashioned" thinking.

2ufo:
Again, I will point out that it isn't so much the 'singleness' of the parent but the stress of poverty, divorce + poverty, job + probably not enough money, or a job at work and the work at home combined with little/no good sleep which contribute to the thought that 'single parents are the worse'.
Excluding the fact that I believe many of these studies say that 2 parent kids do better irrespective of income, income (or lack thereof) is a primary drawback of single parent families. Many divorced parents replace one kind of stress (don't get along with, or no longer feel that little "pitter patter" in their heart for their spouse) with another type of stress (raising kids alone/financial distress). Which kind of stress is the lesser evil?

Again...I don't mean this to be an attack on ALL single mothers because it is obvious that many single Moms perform well in their Herculean effort to raise productive kids against the odds. And disparaging single Moms is unfairly deflecting the blame from dead beat Dads, of course, and they share blame too. Someone here posted deadbeat dads have nothing do to with this issue, but that is BS.

2ufo:
Nope, my opinions are based more on facts rather than feelings as a single mother; probably because I am not the typical single mother in most of those studies. I'm older (60 this month!), have one child, was married and initiated the divorce, and (most importantly to my consideration of the effects of single parenthood) have never been in a situation of poverty.
But that's partially the point from those who don't support single motherhood.....You are the exception! Should we, as a culture, promote single motherhood for the benefit of those women who are capable - both emotionally and financially - to raise a kid alone, when the risks are so apparent to many, many more single women who DON'T have the emotional and financial wherewithal??

My position..is that it happens, may as well not ignore it, and put in place some programs to help them. But at the same time, don't, as a culture, promote, encourage, or celebrate it.

This debate may be a quaint notion these daze though.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 75
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/9/2018 11:49:28 AM
*And disparaging single Moms is unfairly deflecting the blame from dead beat Dads, of course, and they share blame too. Someone here posted deadbeat dads have nothing do to with this issue, but that is BS.

They don't share the blame because there is no such thing as a deadbeat dad. The very notion came about through shameless political grandstanding to pander to an entitled female electorate. These so-called deadbeats are in reality deadbolted. They should not be shaken down for children who are not even theirs in any meaningful way.

*Should we, as a culture, promote single motherhood for the benefit of those women who are capable - both emotionally and financially - to raise a kid alone, when the risks are so apparent to many, many more single women who DON'T have the emotional and financial wherewithal??

Yes! The worm has turned. If we accept the fact rather than yearning for the past, we can get down to cases and do something helpful for these children. Single motherhood is nowhere near the problem in some countries that it is in the USA even though they have higher rates of single motherhood. These countries have an effective social infrastructure. Yet, America prefers cruelty and dysfunction.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 76
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/9/2018 5:42:14 PM
Oldwxman wrotr:
They don't share the blame because there is no such thing as a deadbeat dad. The very notion came about through shameless political grandstanding to pander to an entitled female electorate. These so-called deadbeats are in reality deadbolted. They should not be shaken down for children who are not even theirs in any meaningful way.
I don't understand this statement. Care to elaborate?


Yes! The worm has turned. If we accept the fact rather than yearning for the past, we can get down to cases and do something helpful for these children. Single motherhood is nowhere near the problem in some countries that it is in the USA even though they have higher rates of single motherhood. These countries have an effective social infrastructure. Yet, America prefers cruelty and dysfunction.
I don't think we should encourage it, so we'll disagree...and I certainly agree with providing some social infrastructure to those who need it, so we'll agree there...and I do also agree with the "cruelty and dysfunction" statement. However, what do other countries do that we don't do that's effectively providing aid for single Mothers there? I mean, I'd bet we already lead the globe in spending for social services, etc. etc. Just curious what other countries do, if you know.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/9/2018 8:29:31 PM
*They don't share the blame because there is no such thing as a deadbeat dad. The very notion came about through shameless political grandstanding to pander to an entitled female electorate. These so-called deadbeats are in reality deadbolted. They should not be shaken down for children who are not even theirs in any meaningful way.
**I don't understand this statement. Care to elaborate?

Sure. The deadbeat dad canard came right on the heels of no fault divorce. Divorce used to be more respectable and just. Legislatures and the courts made a mess of it with no fault divorce. Men who had their children taken from them for no good reason began to regard it is kidnapping and child support as ransom. They refused to cooperate. Politicians to the rescue. Goaded by women's groups and right wing anti tax types, politicians and the media created the deadbeat dad for political advantage. In other times and places, heaping more injustice upon powerless people who have already suffered through no fault of their own was called scapegoating. It has always been part of the right wing political tool kit.

My view from the outside looking in. I was there when all of this happened and so were you. We were a bit too young to do anything about it. It doesn't have to be this way and in other countries, it isn't.

*However, what do other countries do that we don't do that's effectively providing aid for single Mothers there? I mean, I'd bet we already lead the globe in spending for social services, etc. etc. Just curious what other countries do, if you know.

The USA is a joke when it comes to social spending. These other countries have universal healthcare, subsidized child care, employment support and effective education. Three countries that immediately come to mind are Holland, Denmark and Iceland. I'm positive that there are others but I would have to look them up.

A nineteenth century abolitionist, William Lloyd Garrison, wrote, "that which is not just is not law." The divorce industry is corrupt. You don't have to be an MRA or Fathers Rights activist to believe that. It is also true that the children of single parents are at higher risk for poverty. What to do about it?

Taxpayers, through their legislatures, created this problem so they are collectively responsible for the damages. That means that the programs listed above and other useful initiatives are the collective responsibility of the public. It is only just.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 78
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/10/2018 10:32:46 PM
I'm a Canadian and I am astounded by how poor social programs are in the States.

When I split with my ex, it was already financially difficult because I had to pay everything for the kids on my own (childcare, school fees, recreation fees, clothes, etc.). And then he started doing a bunch of things that made me have to pursue legal help. I made too much money to get legal aid but he got it and I cannot really afford a lawyer so the kids had to go without soccer in the bring and swimming lessons this summer and dance lessons in the fall/winter and I have to tell them no all the time for things they ask for and it really sucks. We also don't get to go canoing this summer. I'm also working all the time. I am trying to keep our heads above water but its tough.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 79
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 9/29/2018 10:01:52 AM
There are plenty of women out there who don't have a significant other at this time, but have tremendous maternal instincts and their main goal in life is to have a baby. Maternal instinct can be incredibly high, so I cannot chastise them for their overwhelming instinct, even if it's not ideal to have a baby without two parents.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 9/29/2018 11:00:31 AM
I always wanted kids, it was always a major desire on my part. When I got pregnant accidentally I did want my baby alot and even though the dad was not great, eventually I decided I was committed for the longterm to him. I had my other two kids because it was always important to me to give my kid siblings like I had. I was not thinking in terms of ever being with someone else.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 81
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 11/1/2018 11:17:24 PM

Women cannot teach a boy how to be a man. Period.

Certainly not optimally, no. But a significantly older brother, male relative, the mother's boyfriend(s), etc. certainly can and do, whether it's a single mom situation or not (sans the boyfriend part). Plus, just because a single mother is carrying the bulk of the day-to-day weight raising the kid, it doesn't mean there's no father to be a role model too.

I agree with those who believe it's optimal to have 2 parents. I think most of the data says that 2 parent children flourish compared with kids from single parent homes.

True... however, there's something to avoid though...

Even when you exclude income considerations.

I think one should. Obviously single mother homes (carrying a bulk or all the weight of raising) is going to be a household of less income than a 2 parent household.

The thing to avoid is this: We would expect a high %, especially historically speaking, of single-mom-main-custody+ homes to be not good ones. That's not to say ones With 2 parents can't be hell. In fact, it many of those may be better if there Weren't 2 parents in that household (hence, breakup or divorce). Poorer people from poor neighborhoods tend to take up a large % of single-parent households. Especially in areas like that, lacking something takes a bigger blow in an already non-optimal environment being raised. But again, it can be worse than having the two parents living together with the kid in many situations. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't in many situations, notably in poorer areas -- and it takes two of the adults working together for it to be Better together VS Worse together with the kid(s).

Like some things (like DUI statistics), we should expect there to be a push, misleading analyses, etc. when it comes to demonizing single parenting. It's correlated to poorer, more defunct environments so it's not that difficult to do. But doing so puts emphasis on 2 parents staying together and being functional -- which IS better to at least some degree, IF that happens, all other things being equal.

Many decades ago, you could say being single and never getting married = problems. You could probably cite statistics pointing this out, etc. All you need is correlation. But correlation does not equal causation. Most folks don't really see that, and if you have someone with good education & a years of work experience in a field pushing this, well, they're going to take it as correlation=causation. Hey, that educated person wrote it. Has to be true, can't be biased! ;)

I believe if the two parents get along fairly well, and one parent doesn't do Negative work on the child (while the other is a positive), a dual parent system is by default the best. May not mean Much if they spend enough time with the other parent and have close family members networked together on both sides. Many factors come into play, here.

So should someone have a child with someone they know that an LTR isn't in the making, but their biological clock is ticking? By default, no. But if they make a good amount of $$ and don't have to work too much, have a lot of closely knit family members of the opp-sex too that are in their nearly every day lives -- especially if the biological parent is going to be a part of their lives too and is a good citizen wanting a kid too -- sure. Many dual parent situations out there don't have as a good a situation as that, but one can't expect that either.
 WingedLionOne
Joined: 11/2/2018
Msg: 82
Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 11/6/2018 12:15:25 AM
Please watch this video and you'll the reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrQIs4MuRIo
 __TEXASCHICK__
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 83
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Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 11/25/2018 7:03:54 AM
^^ vid Lion posted....... very informative.
what on earth was she thinking????? a woman who decides to do this, not at all right, to the man, herself or to the child.
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