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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Feminism Your Views [under review]      Home login  
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 PrunellaJones
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 816
Feminism Your ViewsPage 33 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)
$8,000 per month for a kid to have a lifestyle to which he's become accustomed??!! I figure the kid should get a little less accustomed.
That's less than $100,000 a year for a parent who earns multi-millions per year. These kids go to very expensive private schools, have full time drivers, maids, nannies. That's their lifestyle. Child support is set according to the income of the parent, not according to the child's basic survival needs. I know my nephew grew up with a mother who was handicapped, unable to work, and living on a fixed and very limited income. His father had a very high paying professinal career. However, since at the time of the divorce, my sister didn't push for higher child support, a kid with a father who did very well financially actually pretty much lived a lifestyle which reflected his mother's income, which was necessarily very limited. The father sweeps in once a year with Xmas presents and pays for summer camp and the rest of the time the kid is living on hot dogs and macaroni and cheese. Not right. Child support should be set according what the parent who pays it earns, whether that parent is the mother or the father.
 PrunellaJones
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 817
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/12/2012 5:58:13 AM

The real purpose to child support was is and always will be to help support women
This is not true. The purpose of child support is to support the child. Period.

I don't think my sister got screwed over; I think the child did. This is what I don't get about men: in their minds the money is supporting the ex-wife, someone they don't like. The money is for the child. It is the child that gets screwed if child support is not fair, not the ex. I know my sister spent the money on her son. Child support never raised her above a lifestyle she could afford on her own.

My point is that a non-custodial parent should be paying in child support what he/she would pay if they were still married and living with the child, not some nominal fee, especially not one based on what a spouse might be earning. I don't know how your brother was taken advantage of. No one forced or ordered him to set up his ex and her boyfriend in a house. As you said, that was his choice completely. A parent who earns 10 million dollars a years is more than likely going to normally spend at least, if not more, than $100,000 on his/her child (if they were living all together as a family). $100,000 is like 1% of 10 million dollars. Do you only spend 1 percent of your income on your child?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 818
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/12/2012 9:09:03 AM
@ LilyBeyaz: The examples provided are both extremes. The original post I was responding to was where the man paying the exorbitant amount was the custodial father and the mother was the one who had visitation rights, which is an extreme. The father is already paying for the daily needs of the child because the child lives with him the "majority" of the time. Your extreme is at the opposite end of the spectrum. There should be a balance, not an extreme of either example. If it's a case of the wealthy man having a child or children who go to private schools etc. and he isn't the custodial parent, a direct payment should be made to the various entities, not to the mother who may or may not choose to use it for those express purposes. To me, it's an example of the feminist pendulum having swung too far in the opposite direction.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 819
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/17/2012 6:26:19 AM

These kids go to very expensive private schools, have full time drivers, maids, nannies. That's their lifestyle.


Fine, so the MOTHER should be paying that to the FATHER seeing how the father is the one that has custody 96% of the time. And quite frankly, no child needs $96,000 spent on him for 15 days of visitation.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 820
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 3:28:44 AM
Interesting video on how much men have been emasculated over time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4 (part 1...14 mins)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHYPHf0PfE (part 2...14 mins)



All of this female "empowerment" has managed to make men quite spineless, very passive, and lacking in any sense of direction.
 PrunellaJones
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 821
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 4:49:08 AM
All of this female "empowerment" has managed to make men quite spineless, very passive, and lacking in any sense of direction.
This may be true of you and some other men. It most definitely is not true of the man I am with or any man I have ever been with. A real man wants and appreciates having an equal partner. He has a sense of self, as a man and as a human being, that is not threatened by women being his equal. My man is definitely not passive and not at all in any way lacking a sense of direction. Far from it. I have met very few men who are like that, in fact.

Maybe this is you and the men you hang out with. Pretty pathetic.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 822
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 5:20:26 AM
Either way I never got the straight %20 thing anyway. The numbers don't add up to being for the child. Never have and never will. This way of doing it isn't fair and it never will be fair. How can someone spend 1400-2000 a month on a child. This amount of money is clearly a form of spousal support. I'm a custodial parent and I am the one saying this. Not that I've ever recieved any child support.

There's this very rich celebrity here in Quebec...god, I forget his name. His ex gf left him and sewed him for I dont remember how many millions, plus now the guy is stuck paying something like 240 000 canadian dollars a year as a pension for the kids..............................
Considering it was calculated that a kid from 0-18 years of age, cost more or less 250 000 dollars to raise in QUebec in 2012, the guy is "getting had" for sure, and she's laughing pretty hard....

OH! I just remembered; Guy Laliberté. Might want to check on the figures, I'm quoting from memory and my memory sucks lol. But yeah, it's some form of spousal support. Notwithstanding that's he's ALSO paying that...
 naturallylaidback
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 823
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 5:43:44 AM
For a better understanding of feminiSSm there are many educated bloggers on youtube such as barbarossa, stardusk, and a Canadian woman "girl writes what". They take a very honest look at what feminists do and what they stand for. Also what should a man be doing to make his life better, quality of life and inner peace are great when you find it alone. Now you realise that the only thing a women can give you is a family. Everything else in life you can achieve on your own, plus no women is emptying your wallet. lol Just my two cents.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 824
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 5:55:54 AM

This may be true of you and some other men. It most definitely is not true of the man I am with or any man I have ever been with. A real man wants and appreciates having an equal partner. He has a sense of self, as a man and as a human being, that is not threatened by women being his equal. My man is definitely not passive and not at all in any way lacking a sense of direction. Far from it. I have met very few men who are like that, in fact.

Perhaps you just don't recognize the signs, or you choose to ignore them.



Maybe this is you and the men you hang out with. Pretty pathetic.

This is the kind of shaming language that women love to utilize to emasculate men. Men and women will never be equal. It's not possible. Someone is always giving more than the other in some manner. It's just a question of whether the other person is ok with it or not. But even with being "equal," I seriously doubt that any men are threatened by it. They are generally voicing their distaste for women wanting equal rights without equal responsibilities.

I seriously doubt you watched those videos, but they make a lot valid points.
 PrunellaJones
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 825
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:15:53 AM
This is the kind of shaming language that women love to utilize to emasculate men
You are the one who emasculates yourself. You are the one who doesn't know what being truly masculine is. I've never been with a man who wasn't his own man. As I said, a REAL man is strong and secure in himself and his masculinity. He doesn't need to disempower women or anyone else to make him feel like a man. This is something you obviously don't get.

If you want to spend the rest of your life feeling emasculated and and weak and spinless, that's your CHOICE. No one is actually doing that to you. And that is why I use the word pathetic.


Perhaps you just don't recognize the signs, or you choose to ignore them.
I know a strong, secure person, male or female, when I see one--strong in their own sense of self, of their femininity or masculinity, of their sexuality. And I can also recogize someone who is blaming his or her unhappiness and failures on something outside themselves--which is what the men who choose to believe that female equality is something that destroys them as men. It is, indeed, pathetic. I am very scornful of such people.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 826
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:28:41 AM
You are the one who emasculates yourself. You are the one who doesn't know what being truly masculine is. I've never been with a man who wasn't his own man. As I said, a REAL man is strong and secure in himself and his masculinity. He doesn't need to disempower women or anyone else to make him feel like a man. This is something you obviously don't get.


So remove all of the male teachers from elementary and middle schools, and compound that with the fact that there are A LOT of single mothers in the world raising BOYS, and couple that with the fact that the media loves to make men look like bumbling idiots. So now you have boys that are being raise with a severe lack of male tutelage, and the few male role models they have via the media are pretty much an insult to men as a whole. Are you going to accuse those boys of emasculating themselves?

"A REAL man would [insert random trait that -you- like about men]." How typical.

And what if the man -isn't- secure about his masculinity? Heaven forbid a man has emotional struggles in his life. I wouldn't be surprised if you made no hesitation to ridicule him even further.

And stop assuming that I am talking about myself. I'm talking about things I witness regularly. -I-, unlike some men, don't have my head in the sand.


equality is something that destroys them as men

Equal Opportunity without Equal Accountability is not equality. But again, you're continually misinterpreting I say. I think men that do not believe in equality are in a very much insignificant minority. However, it seems like women do not see equality as being the same thing as men do.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 827
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 7:27:13 AM
I think the problem is the definition of equality... men and women are not equal in all things... women should have equal opportunity equal rights and equal protection under the law... but they should not expect standards to be lowered to allow them access to jobs that they think they deserve....
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 828
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 8:58:37 AM

I think the problem is the definition of equality... men and women are not equal in all things... women should have equal opportunity equal rights and equal protection under the law... but they should not expect standards to be lowered to allow them access to jobs that they think they deserve....


I'll agree with this. It actually contributed to me never having the chance to make my dream come true and become a cop. It wasnt the sole factor, but it contributed. Equality for women and for racial minorities, in order to be politically correct, actually contributed to me not being qualified enough to become a police officer. It REALLY sucks. I don't hold a grudge at all, but it still doesnt make it fair.
 cover_me
Joined: 2/28/2012
Msg: 829
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 9:06:24 AM

A LOT of single mothers in the world raising BOYS


Women raising boys *screams*, oh the horror!!!!

I was raised entirely by my Mom, and she did great with me. I might act a little nutty, but I'm very well adjusted. I didn't need a man to show me anything. Like I said in another thread, if my sperm donor had raised me, I would be the human equivalent of a c*ckroach today. My Mother taught me to be me. I didn't need a man to teach me that, she did well.


and couple that with the fact that the media loves to make men look like bumbling idiots


You mean like on TV, and in movies? Yes, that's called "entertainment". It's not to be taken seriously


And what if the man -isn't- secure about his masculinity?


I would say then, that that is a personal issue, and that that man needs to work on that. Not the fault of feminists, or women in general, and it sure isn't the media's fault. A man takes care of his problems and deals with them, and doesn't blame it on others. And like I said, I didn't need a man to teach me that.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 830
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 9:44:14 AM
not to be too analytical but judging by how you refer to your father you may not be as well adjusted as you think thus proving the other posters point...
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 831
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Posted: 5/18/2012 9:46:44 AM

You mean like on TV, and in movies? Yes, that's called "entertainment". It's not to be taken seriously


If that's true, there was no reason to take Amos n' Andy off the air.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 832
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 12:24:47 PM

And stop assuming that I am talking about myself. I'm talking about things I witness regularly. -

This is simply a comment about something that sorta jumped out at me, not meant to disrespect anybody or dredge up anything-but it seems to me that there have been occasions in the forums where participants have been informed that commenting about things they've observed or witnessed lacks validity compared to commenting on things that one has actually experienced. Simply an observation on my part.
I agree,equal opportunity requires equal responsibility/accountability-even if it does not take the exact same form of execution. I also am not fool enough to deny,dismiss or diminish the fact that there have been occasions where efforts to meet "equal opportunity" has resulted in injustices.

Hey, it's a learning experience in progress, but I do feel badly for those who were, or are being,wronged in the process. It's a human construct and a human endeavor, and as such can never be perfect.

I have little personal patience with my "sisters" who try to play both sides of the fence/have it both ways/have their cake and eat it too...but it's another unfortunate facet of humanity that there will always be those who seek to get more than their fair share, and that also is NOT gender-specific.
IMO that' s an ETHICS problem, not an inherent or fundamental "flaw" of the " gender equality" concept.
Cindy O
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 833
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 1:47:59 PM
I was raised entirely by my Mom, and she did great with me. I might act a little nutty, but I'm very well adjusted. I didn't need a man to show me anything. Like I said in another thread, if my sperm donor had raised me, I would be the human equivalent of a c*ckroach today. My Mother taught me to be me. I didn't need a man to teach me that, she did well.

Nice testament to your Mom. I raised a son on my own until he was 8 and my then BF adopted my son. We married a year later. My son never knew his sperm-donor (who signed off his parental rights prior to the adoption, and he signed of his own free-will.) At age 17 my son wanted to meet the donor. We (his father and I) supported that. For three years my son tried to have a "relationship" with the donor and in the end? He called him "the dirt bag." We had NEVER trash talked the donor, not ever. No one in my family did, including extended family members. My son figured out all on his own that the man was human junk. He'd become a self-made millionaire and was just as worthless when my son became an adult as he was the day my son was born. Single Mothers can and do raise well-adjusted young men who turn into well-adjusted men. Simply because you call him a name does not mean you aren't well adjusted as some others here may think. Only you know what/how/why you feel as you do. I'd never negate someone's "adjustment" on a comment made in a public forum. Why? Because only YOU know for sure.

~OT~ It's pretty well established I am not a feminist by label. This does not mean I wasn't perfectly capable, willing and able to raise a son to manhood all on my own. I was only married for about 8 years of my son's entire life. He had only ONE father in his lifetime and that was the man who adopted him at age 8. By 13, we were on our own except for the fun things his father and he did together. His father was, by all accounts, absent. My son's informative years, prior to age 8, were well intact, well grounded and he turned out to be a good, kind, thoughtful, intelligent and oh so very fun/funny man. Doesn't take two parents in a home to achieve these things. Just takes a lot of love, patience and commitment. I had more than enough of those things to raise a productive member of society. And I didn't need to be labeled anything but "Mom" to do it. JMO
 cover_me
Joined: 2/28/2012
Msg: 834
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 1:57:51 PM
I felt that pain and hurt before I got married with a child that ended up not being mine. The mother basically said if I don't do exactly as she says, no kid


I don't hate men, or myself, or anything like that. My Grandmother, his Mom, can't even stand him, seriously. He is a very bad monkey. I know what you're saying 1uk..I know of this happening, and it's so wrong. I know you take care of your kids, and step kids, and that's awesome. It's cool that there are responsible men that handle business, instead of running off. I've seen a few of your posts where you talk about the kids for a paragraph or two. That rocks man. I was just saying that I did perfectly well with just Mom. She got me raised, just fine. I know you're a decent person, so I wasn't talking about guys like you who do right by their kids.


Simply because you call him a name does not mean you aren't well adjusted as some others here may think. Only you know what/how/why you feel as you do. I'd never negate someone's "adjustment" on a comment made in a public forum. Why? Because only YOU know for sure.


I *wish* I could talk to him, he won't talk to me. I still call him on Father's Day, and his Birthday and Christmas, send him cards and what not, Nothing will ever come of it, and I know that, but it's the right thing for me to do. I forgive him for not being there, but that doesn't change who he is.

Thank you greeneyes.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 835
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 5:53:49 PM
If you can't find a positive male role model...
be your own.

Being unchained to anothers view of how a man should be,
frees you to live....
................as a man....
..........................as you think a man should be.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 836
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:06:55 PM
I'll agree with this. It actually contributed to me never having the chance to make my dream come true and become a cop. It wasnt the sole factor, but it contributed. Equality for women and for racial minorities, in order to be politically correct, actually contributed to me not being qualified enough to become a police officer. It REALLY sucks. I don't hold a grudge at all, but it still doesnt make it fair.


See, this is one of those instances where I think the term "equality" gets misconstrued. If everyone has the equal -opportunity- to get the job, then everything should be fine and dandy. If all the best candidates for the job just so happen to be white males, then so be it. I mean, who's fault is it that they didn't meet/exceed the job requirements? Denying someone who is better qualified because of trying to meet some quota is not only inequality, it's also bad for business. This same thing happened to one of my instructors at Corps School. He put in his package to be put on a ship, and his credentials by navy corpsman standards are pretty ridiculous, but he got denied because they wanted to have more women on the ship.



If you can't find a positive male role model...
be your own.

Being unchained to anothers view of how a man should be,
frees you to live....
................as a man....
..........................as you think a man should be.


As much as you may find it liberating for a boy to grow up without male role models, some study of developmental psychology will give a plethora of evidence that it can be (and generally is) quite damaging.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 837
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:17:28 PM
Here's the thing, in western society for the last 40 yrs, through the indoctrination of 3/4 generations, the role of men, as husbands and fathers has been diminished, marginalized, ridiculed, trivialized even deemed unnecessary...

This is wrong...

No-one says women are unnecessary for the healthy development of a child, but some people will happily, shamelessly say that the father is unnecessary...
Parenting with two healthy well-adjusted adults even one healthy well-adjusted child is challenging enough...
To do it as a single person is extremely difficult... Pretending otherwise grossly misrepresents the stressful reality...

A father does model/influence masculinity for his son, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse...
I cannot model manhood/masculinity for my son... I am a woman... I can talk to him about it... but a living breathing example is a lot better, same as a girl and her mother....
What I absolutely hate is the dismissal of the importance, the value, of any parent to the child, they actually need both...
Kids need their fathers, girls as much as, if not more, than boys...

Feminist rhetoric has reduced and belittled men's roles in family life to a (working) stiff****attached to a cash machine...

I'm with Chris Rock on this subject....A little comic relief..

from 7:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=OBW1P7foyWQ

2 quotes if you don't want to watch the clip, (but you should it's super-funny...)

"A bunch of girls say, "You don't need no man to help you raise no child" … shut the f*ck up with the bullsh!t! Yeah, you could do it without a man, but that don't mean it's to be done! Sh!t, you can drive a car with your feet if you want to, that don't make it a good f*cking idea!"

" You could be the baddest mama on earth. l don’t care how good you are.
Ain’t nothing you can say more powerful than, ”l’m gonna tell your daddy.”
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 838
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:21:14 PM

If you can't find a positive male role model...
be your own.

Being unchained to anothers view of how a man should be,
frees you to live....
................as a man....
..........................as you think a man should be.

Good grief!!! I'm so rarely "moved" in forums any more that it's almost sad. This? Bless your heart. Choked me up for a moment because before my son died? I used to tell him exactly this, almost verbatim. So here's to you from me, for "getting it" !!!
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 839
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 6:21:56 PM
Oh certainly....growing up without a male role model is damaging.
So is having a leg removed by an accident.
Or growing up poor.
Or any number of things than can cause us to struggle.

But if that is what we got....
Then we just got to make the best of it.
And can.

but I think we need to change this topic back to
feminism and the ladies.

I am so sorry for your loss Green Eyes.
words fail me.
I'm sure with a mom like you...
he certainly lived as man should be.

 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 840
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/18/2012 7:51:57 PM
In a perfect world a child would be raised by a mother and father who wanted the child and share in the raising of the child and everyone lives happily ever after as a family unit until they die at a ripe old age. But it doesn't work that way all the time in real life. Divorce rips families apart, both men and women raise children on their own due to a variety of reasons and grandparents are raising grandchildren.

A child can be raised quite well by one parent, be it the mother or the father. And it's not like women raise children, particularly boys, without that child coming in contact with men - be it uncles, cousins, grandpas, neighbours, friends, male school teachers, coaches, and on and on. The same goes for a man raising a daughter on his own - he is not without females in his life for role models for his daughter.

Sometimes raising a healthy and productive child is more good luck than good management. We see criminals coming from two loving parent families and single loving families and not so loving families. As long as we are doing the best we can with what we have, that is all we can do.

Feminism didn't do this to children - WE did this to children, both genders.

And Stray Cat is right - be the man you want to be.
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