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 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 851
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Feminism Your ViewsPage 35 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

So, all else being equal, what kind of logic is it that the "best interest of the child" is to NOT put the child under the custody of the breadwinner?


I can see you've never had children, nor been in a divorce. First of all, courts start equally using "joint custody" as being the preferred solution first before other things are considered. Being a breadwinner is not necessarily a good criteria for custody. In fact, I would imagine while there are quite a few men that want primary custody of their kids, many men do not necessarily want that...not that they would state that outright. In fact, many parent probably do not want sole custody, not really, everyone appreciates help in raising a child.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 852
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Posted: 5/20/2012 1:27:54 AM
I can see you've never had children, nor been in a divorce.

And? I've never stabbed myself in the eye with a pen, but I can imagine that it doesn't feel very good.


courts start equally using "joint custody" as being the preferred solution first before other things are considered.

That may have been a wording problem on my part, because I meant primary custody. At any rate, having the child every other weekend still falls under "joint custody."


Being a breadwinner is not necessarily a good criteria for custody.

Hence, why I said "all else being equal." Much of the stuff things people argue in court are subjective and/or can't really be verified. If neither of the parents are abusive/neglectful, and the children seem behaved and well nourished, it's hard to come to a clear conclusion as to who is the "better" parent. However, you still have to go off of something.


many men do not necessarily want that...not that they would state that outright

Many -more- men are coaxed by lawyers to let their wives have custody because they will most likely lose the battle anyway. You make it seem like there are these men all over the place that loathe their parental responsibilities, and I'm not referring to the guys that take off once they find out that mom is pregnant. They're going to a CUSTODY BATTLE, so obviously they -want- custody.
 Aura1shine
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 853
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 1:56:14 AM
mrcs84: You state that is a rhetoric and I am wonder that were you a reciepeint of generosity by mother? or merely only a farther? From what I have seen in my black friends, they are the one whom endure so much of hardership in attaining financial than most of ethnicity except in healthcare fields. And those friends of mine tend to be single mothers, no child support or minimal amount if they got one, and how do you think why we women would not fight for that for our womenhood to support each other.

By the way, I have one black nurse whom has 3 children with a looser whom work only minimal paid jobs here and there but not contribute in a daily living with excuse that he is further his education(grad school) and cheat behind her back while she taking care of the kids, house work, and work her behind to pay 2 mortgages on 2 houses with her wages from 2 jobs. After divorce, he does not want the kids....no alimony, got the money from value of 2 houses( half), and also his alimony. And this is not just one but common to me hearing about these incident from most divorce women.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 854
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:04:14 AM
Wow this thread is still going.
Just a thought who do you think put into place the laws governing the draft and family/divorce courts, these are all male dominated areas until recently, many judges/politicians/law makers are male, we all know that the system needs to be overhauled, it's simply unfair and out-dated. In fact if you look at it, it's actually misogynist in that it takes old stereotypes of women's role as the primary caretaker and that men are only there for a supporting role or meal ticket, when it fact men play a equally important role in child development. The system does need to be changed but this will not change human behaviour because there will always be someone who wants to bend the rules or take advantage of the situation this is not gender specific, users are users. I appreciate what others have done in the Feminist movement as I benefit from those struggles, I'm free to live my life, have an education, vote, make my own decisions, have a career and support myself, in doing all these things I can then chose to be in a relationship with a man, not have to be in one because it is the social norm or I need someone to support me. Bad things happen to people all the time, the trick is realizing that you can't make sweeping generalizations, but put the onus of the blame on the individual who did it. Unfortunately Feminism has morphed into a nasty parody of itself due to self serving ideologies, on one side you have the extreme man-haters and on the other side you have the males using it as a convenient scapegoat for all the wrongs done in their lives.
 smashingmayo
Joined: 7/10/2011
Msg: 855
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 2:04:22 AM
Any guy with sense would run form any woman who considers herself a feminist.
 Aura1shine
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 856
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 2:09:23 AM
By the way, mrcs84...you are only 27. Life is still a long road ahead of you, something is learned by life experiences not from a text book.
My friend daughter, a graduate from Air Force academy, she works hard a fighter pilot and engineering wizz. She met her ex whom has the same rank while she was young. Guess what, the...ss quit his job become civilian after she has 2 children by him and made an excuse that he could not find and good job. After awhile, she got tired of him leaching on her and not taking responsibility even not taking of the kids(my friend has to help). She lost six figures to get sole custody because she found they were locked up in the apartment while he out around with a girl friend during a share custody time. So, not all men whom fight for the custody will be nurture and loving kind the same as mother would give to her children.

Anyway, she retired from air force after 20 years as a rank of Lieutenant Colonial and offer the six figures income job, the guy was a looser and wanted to keep the kids for the child support sake to live on along with his alimony.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 857
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:22:09 AM

And? I've never stabbed myself in the eye with a pen, but I can imagine that it doesn't feel very good.



And...that's about the extent of what you will know about stabbing yourself in the eye...that it doesn't feel good, but you lack any real knowledge and detail.


If neither of the parents are abusive/neglectful, and the children seem behaved and well nourished, it's hard to come to a clear conclusion as to who is the "better" parent. However, you still have to go off of something.



Like I mentioned before, all things being equal, a mother will get a slight "edge" in court for having been the one that physically carried the child to term, which is that "something" you go off from.


Many -more- men are coaxed by lawyers to let their wives have custody because they will most likely lose the battle anyway. You make it seem like there are these men all over the place that loathe their parental responsibilities,


Really? Men give up that easily? Then they shouldn't complain if they don't get what they don't ask for, don't you think? And please don't confuse me with someone else you were arguing with, I dont think men loathe parental responsibilities, and I think they should be treated fairly and believe they often are by the courts. I have been both lucky and unlucky in divorce, how it gets resolved really depends on the amount of anger and refusal to come to a compromise which the courts would prefer...but that rarely occurs in a divorce. And no, getting tangled in a custody battle is not necessarily proof of wanting custody....when people are splitting up, they can act in very irrational ways including wanting to punish each other by denying the other something they care about.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 858
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:27:18 AM

Feminism has morphed into a nasty parody of itself due to self serving ideologies, on one side you have the extreme man-haters and on the other side you have the males using it as a convenient scapegoat for all the wrongs done in their lives.


How so? I don't think Feminism is the cause for why women become man-haters. In fact, I suspect more women who were forced to stay in marriages they didn't want to probably hated men more....they just couldn't be so vocal in the day when they were second class citizens.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 859
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Posted: 5/20/2012 3:06:29 AM

mrcs84: You state that is a rhetoric and I am wonder that were you a reciepeint of generosity by mother? or merely only a farther?

Oh, and you're an armchair therapist too. Yay!! Well for your information, my parents are still married to each other. My dad was the department chair of math and sciences at the local community college, and my mom is the manager of HR for the city. So, when I was living with them, I was living an upper middle class lifestyle. I was involved in everything to sports, to boy scouts, to conservatories, to community service. The only "hard" part about my life is that I was always in honors/accelerated classes in middle/high school.


I have one black nurse whom has 3 children with a looser whom work only minimal paid jobs here and there but not contribute in a daily living with excuse that he is further his education(grad school) and cheat behind her back while she taking care of the kids, house work, and work her behind to pay 2 mortgages on 2 houses with her wages from 2 jobs

Sounds like her man-picker is broken. What is your point?


After divorce, he does not want the kids....no alimony, got the money from value of 2 houses( half), and also his alimony.

Ok...what does this have to do with custody battles? It sounds to me that the -custody- portion was resolved outside of court.


My friend daughter, a graduate from Air Force a.....[words]......So, not all men whom fight for the custody will be nurture and loving kind the same as mother would give to her children.

Like I said before, "all else being equal." Using a good mother/bad father example doesn't exactly make for a strong argument. And please show me where I said "all men."


And...that's about the extent of what you will know about stabbing yourself in the eye...that it doesn't feel good, but you lack any real knowledge and detail.

I'm guessing that you think that empathy holds no water in any discussion. Luckily for you, there were/are a lot of MALE feminists helping out in the struggle. I'm sure what -they- had to say was quickly dismissed as well.


a mother will get a slight "edge" in court for having been the one that physically carried the child to term, which is that "something" you go off from

So mom always gets an edge, despite the fact that birthing the child has no bearing on how well she can rear the child, especially when we're talking about 1 event that may have happened up to 17 years ago. Roger that.



Then they shouldn't complain if they don't get what they don't ask for, don't you think?

Tell that to all the oppressed women out there who were either rape victims or in abusive relationships. Sometimes people think that speaking up can leave them in a worse position than if they keep their mouths shut.


they just couldn't be so vocal in the day when they were second class citizens.

Then they shouldn't complain if they don't get what they don't ask for, don't you think? Herp Derp


And no, getting tangled in a custody battle is not necessarily proof of wanting custody

I'm willing to bet that those "not necessarily" instances are as common as man bites dog. I'm sure people are vindictive and want to hurt the other parent, but I think that is just a byproduct of the situation and that they still -do- want to raise their own children.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 860
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Posted: 5/20/2012 3:53:44 AM

I'm guessing that you think that empathy holds no water in any discussion. Luckily for you, there were/are a lot of MALE feminists helping out in the struggle. I'm sure what -they- had to say was quickly dismissed as well.

Look, I have nothing against men, in fact, I love them. I work mostly with men, and rarely interact with another woman, so don't mistake me for someone that's here to to participate in a gender fight. Empathy is something I reserve for people or situations I know....for sake of this dicussion, emotion will only make you deviate from a fair and logical thought process.



So mom always gets an edge, despite the fact that birthing the child has no bearing on how well she can rear the child, especially when we're talking about 1 event that may have happened up to 17 years ago.


Was there some specific that I missed? What happened 17 years ago? I believe I said "all things being equal", which means if we start with a clean slate without negative parental attributes in either parent.



Tell that to all the oppressed women out there who were either rape victims or in abusive relationships.


What? What does that have to do with men not fighting for primary custody of their kid/s because they're attorney said he shouldn't bother?


Then they shouldn't complain if they don't get what they don't ask for, don't you think? Herp Derp


You do realize that when I said "back in the day", I meant several decades ago, before getting a divorce was a simple affair, right? You do know, there was a time when people had to come up with a justification to ask for a divorce, which could be denied? Or are you to young to know it was this way not so long ago.



I'm sure people are vindictive and want to hurt the other parent, but I think that is just a byproduct of the situation and that they still -do- want to raise their own children.


This is where your lack of parental experience really shows. Yes, most people want, and deserve to interact and raise their kids. But no, not everyone wants to be the sole custodian, or even the primary custodian for variety of reasons, like people that work odd hours, long hours, have medical conditions or handicaps, or even having a new girlfriend/boyfriend, the possible reasons are endless.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 861
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Posted: 5/20/2012 5:29:37 AM

Empathy is something I reserve for people or situations I know....for sake of this dicussion, emotion will only make you deviate from a fair and logical thought process.

And I was originally talking about how it logically [doesn't] makes sense to put the child under the [primary] custody of the parent who makes less.


Was there some specific that I missed? What happened 17 years ago? I believe I said "all things being equal", which means if we start with a clean slate without negative parental attributes in either parent.

What happened [up to] 17 years ago was the child birth. And that clean slate would still look at the parents incomes. Income is an indicator of the lifestyle the child will be living, and it's a significantly better argument when determining fitness for being a parent than having given birth to the kid.


You do realize that when I said "back in the day", I meant several decades ago, before getting a divorce was a simple affair, right? You do know, there was a time when people had to come up with a justification to ask for a divorce, which could be denied? Or are you to young to know it was this way not so long ago.


I'm very aware of all of that. I am also aware that just because someone is being treated unjustly, it doesn't mean that they deserve it simply because they didn't speak up.


This is where your lack of parental experience really shows. Yes, most people want, and deserve to interact and raise their kids. But no, not everyone wants to be the sole custodian, or even the primary custodian for variety of reasons, like people that work odd hours, long hours, have medical conditions or handicaps, or even having a new girlfriend/boyfriend, the possible reasons are endless.


I'm just going to chalk this up to you misreading what I said.

I said "the still -do- want to raise their own children."
I did not say "the still -do- want to raise their children on their own."
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 862
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 12:42:47 PM
THEY DID NOT BURN THEIR BRAS

‘Bra-burning feminists’: Who were they?
In Bra-burning, Debunking, Media myths on May 3, 2010 at 1:58 pm

A commentary today at the Huffington Post blog salutes trailblazing, rule-breaking American women–including the elusive “bra-burners” of the 1960s.

The commentary reads in part:

“From Revolutionary War icon Betsy Ross to World War II’s Rosie the Riveter, from sexually liberated 1920s femme fatale Louise Brooks to bra-burning feminists in the 1960s, from anti-slavery orator Sojourner Truth to controversial civil rights activist Angela Davis, American history is filled with female archetypes who pushed against the barriers of repression and social convention.”

True enough: History indeed counts many “female archetypes who pushed against the barriers of repression and social convention.”

But as for those “bra-burning feminists in the 1960s”–just who were they?

The commentary doesn’t say, leaving an implication that bra-burning was widespread, and even commonplace, during the 1960s.

Which just isn’t so.

I devote a chapter to bra-burning in Getting It Wrong, my forthcoming book about media-driven myths.

In that chapter, I trace the diffusion of the “bra-burning” epithet to the aftermath of the Miss America pageant at Atlantic City, N.J., on September 7, 1968.

That afternoon, about 100 women gathered on the Atlantic City boardwalk to protest the pageant as degrading to women.

A highlight of the afternoon came when demonstrators tossed into a barrel what they called “instruments of torture,” including brassieres, girdles, high-heeled shoes, and such magazines as Playboy and Cosmopolitan. The protesters dubbed the barrel the Freedom Trash Can.

The protest organizers, who included the feminist and former child actor Robin Morgan, have long insisted that the bras and other contents of the Freedom Trash Can were not set afire during the protest.

But the notion that bras had been set ablaze in flamboyant protest became a misleading legacy of that long-ago afternoon–an image promoted and spread by columnists Harriett Van Horne and Art Buchwald.

Neither of them was at the protest.

Two days afterward, Van Horne wrote in her column that there had been a bonfire in a Freedom Trash Can.

“With screams of delight,” she said of the protesters, “they consigned to the flames such shackling, demeaning items as girdles, bras, high-heeled slippers, hair curlers and false eyelashes.”

As I write in Getting It Wrong, this highly imaginative characterization was taken up a few days later by Art Buchwald in his nationally syndicated column.

Buchwald, who by then was American journalism’s leading humor columnist, wrote with tongue in cheek that he had been “flabbergasted to read that about 100 women had picketed the Miss America pageant in Atlantic City against ‘ludicrous beauty standards that had enslaved the American woman.’”

He also wrote:

“The final and most tragic part of the protest took place when several of the women publicly burned their brassieres.”

And he closed the column by writing:

“If the women in Atlantic City wanted to picket the Miss America beauty pageant because it is lily-white, that is one thing, and if they wanted to picket because it is a bore, that is also a legitimate excuse. But when they start asking young American women to burn their brassieres and throw away their false eyelashes, then we say dissent in this country has gone too far.”
 Gertrude13
Joined: 5/14/2012
Msg: 863
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 12:53:43 PM
The thing that is great about "feminism..."

Women fought like tigers to get us to where we could reach for equal footing. They got us the right to vote, and they got us the right to stand up for ourselves, to speak up for ourselves.

Because of feminists, when my daughter tells me she wants to be a surgeon (or President), I can encourage her. When her father is abusive to her and to me, I can leave, and do so with a great career, one that enables me to actually feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads, despite a deadbeat loser of a father who weasels out of support.

The most important thing, though? When silly, misogynistic males rant about how their rights have been violated due to women having them - When they name-call and completely miss the point, I can smile gently, knowing that other men out there were raised by strong, good women, and that they know all of that whining is utter bullshit.

And I know that the chauvinists are the ever-shrinking minority.

Let 'em rant.:)
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 864
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 1:49:26 PM
Yes the male chavinists use women as flagpersons on road construction to show that they CAN do the job.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 865
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:20:17 PM
Wierd, do posts simply disappear around here often? Anyway, to repost....


You really aren't even trying to comprehend at all. You were basically stating that women should not be held accountable for things they can't control and so I gave another example that was the same. If you didn't get it it is because you simply don't want to.





Maybe you need a better example. First, of course no one can be held accountable for something they have no control over. But that's not the same scenario, because last time I checked, everyone has control over having children. You missed the whole "accountable" part of your argument by skipping the most crucial point....that a judge dismiss your responsibility because you don't get custody is hardly one of those examples. A better example maybe, should I have to pay if I don't get any custody at all, to which I say, yes...under special circumstance (i.e. child abuse or endangerment).




You say this and that gives me a strong indication that you have clearly not read the information on the links I provided earlier in this thread. Furthermore you have not provided any factual information of your own to debunk anything I have said.





True, I did not read through all of the comments or links, and I'm not sure what it is I should be compelled/obligated to debunk. I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that one sex seems to hold more antagonism over divorce than other on this forum.




I'm going to break this down for you in a way the slower part of the class such as yourself can understand sense your are obviously to lazy to research for yourself and provide links debunking my facts that I have provided.




Do go on...impress me with your brilliance.




Wow your the kid in the sand box who pooped his pants. I'm embarrassed for you. First of all I'm talking about national averages. The nation I'm referring to is the united states of America. It consists of 50 states. The stats I've provided includes all 50 states so seeing as how you live in the united states this includes you. Ok? Follow me so far?



Insults unrelated to the topic only makes you look silly, though I'm sure you feel better. But you stay classy there.




In the stats that are a national average I provided it states that on average women make 70 cents on the dollar to men. So yes you are correct women make less on average to men. %83 percent of women are custodial parents as in the receivers of child support. So %17 percent of men are custodial parents and the receivers of child support. That is another national average. Still with me? On average women are ordered to pay 31 cents on a dollar to men. That would be 39 cents less than what it is suppose to be. Do you u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d this? Ok next is how much child support is actually collected per year. It's about 151 million dollars. Over %99 of this is distributed to women. More than %99 of men pay their full child support owed. If over %99 of this is distributed to women how much is distributed to men? Such a small number it literally said it might as well as be zero.






You do understand that you're trying to come to conclusion based on unrelated numbers, don't you? For instance, the fact that 99% of child support money going to women could simplt mean that many of the women that don't have custody simply don't make much? That does not necessarily have to correlate to women making 70 cents on the dollar if nearly all those women that are paying are minimum wage earners....which could be one of the reasons the do not have custody.

Hey I get you're feeling like things are unfair, and in the instance of child custody, you're probably right to a certain extent....that women always seem to get edge on men. But like I said, anytime a order is not within the proper guidelines, there's a reason. I have several men friends who agreed to pay more than the court ordered, or never got their support adjusted when their incomes went down. Similar events can adjust negatively on the female side. But I don't agree with your claim that the courts automatically favor the women because of gender alone.




So at the end of the day there are and always will be far far far more dead beat moms than there will ever be dead beat dads. DUH!! At the end of the day it is women who are found wanting and falling short.



Maybe, I wouldn't profess to know. Being a woman with joint custody that pays her ex considerable sum simply because I earn more, I tend to not be swayed by simple stats that may not be telling the whole story. But I will scroll back through and go read the link, which may give me a better insight into what you are trying to relay.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 866
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:33:54 PM

Income is an indicator of the lifestyle the child will be living, and it's a significantly better argument when determining fitness for being a parent than having given birth to the kid.



No court will agree, and certainly most children will disagree with this kind of thinking, and in fact logic dictates opposite to be true...that caregiving parent is often the lesser of the earners for the simple fact that they chose to "stay home". It would be a disservice to everyone to automatically give primary custody to the one that "earns more".
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 867
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 3:41:33 PM

Wow this thread is still going.
Just a thought who do you think put into place the laws governing the draft and family/divorce courts, these are all male dominated areas until recently, many judges/politicians/law makers are male, we all know that the system needs to be overhauled, it's simply unfair and out-dated. In fact if you look at it, it's actually misogynist in that it takes old stereotypes of women's role as the primary caretaker and that men are only there for a supporting role or meal ticket, when it fact men play a equally important role in child development. The system does need to be changed but this will not change human behaviour because there will always be someone who wants to bend the rules or take advantage of the situation this is not gender specific, users are users. I appreciate what others have done in the Feminist movement as I benefit from those struggles, I'm free to live my life, have an education, vote, make my own decisions, have a career and support myself, in doing all these things I can then chose to be in a relationship with a man, not have to be in one because it is the social norm or I need someone to support me. Bad things happen to people all the time, the trick is realizing that you can't make sweeping generalizations, but put the onus of the blame on the individual who did it. Unfortunately Feminism has morphed into a nasty parody of itself due to self serving ideologies, on one side you have the extreme man-haters and on the other side you have the males using it as a convenient scapegoat for all the wrongs done in their lives.



Pretty much the thoughts in my mind as well.

But I've never been a feminist, simply a humanist who thinks that nobody should be forced(to all intents and purposes) to follow a rigid pattern of how they live their life based on their gender,and rigid social expectations. Do some of the men here who have daughters,stepdaughters, granddaughters, want them to be denied occupations that they could be excellent at, because of their gender? Do you want all the teachers, guidance counselors, college-planning advisors to tell your daughters that they can't be a doctor or an attorney because those are jobs only for men?

Do women here who have sons, stepsons, grandsons, want them to be ridiculed if they want to be a nurse or an elementary school teacher? Should a young man with a gift for designing clothes or styling hair, or a young woman with a real talent and ability for welding or automotive mechanics, be stereotyped as gay/lesbian?

The only thing I care about is that both genders have equal educational and economic opportunities, that they have equal protection under the law, and for people to completely shed the idea that marriage or cohabitation implies that the partner of one gender owns the partner of the other gender.

I think if a man calls the police or walks into a police station to report that his wife/SO assaulted him-that he should be taken seriously and be given the same assistance and consideration that a female DV victim would get.

I think a person of either gender who FALSELY reports domestic violence should have to serve a double sentence.

And, I think fish should stay the hell off bicycles, that people who throw rocks at boys or believe that all men are rapists have a couple of bolts sheared off in their thinkers.
But I will say this much for those ancient and long-disused slogans- they got people's attention at a time ,when a certain degree of outrageousness was needed to pull the plug on status-quo complacency. I believe it was that very outrageousness that causes some to remember them. They are NOT valid rhetoric and I don't know ANY women who ever really took those slogans seriously.
Cindy O
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 868
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Posted: 5/20/2012 3:49:13 PM
My point Thinkinginca, was that it has lost it's positive meaning in today's society, all you have to do is read this thread to see how much negativity it provokes, it has ceased to be about equal rights for women which was the basis for the movement in the first place, the extremes use it as a tool to demean women who chose to be stay at home moms and take a more "traditional" role and others like Rush and his "Femnazi" montra to scare the masses that lesbians are going to take over the world and castrate all men in the process. The problem is that the extremes are very loud and vocal and therefore get the media coverage, I believe equal rights should be for everyone but not at the expense of someone else, we need a healthy balance.
 Gertrude13
Joined: 5/14/2012
Msg: 869
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 4:07:36 PM
^^^exactly! It's become a political catchphrase, designed to inflame - on both sides of the aisle.

But I believe that the everyday "feminists" who wear lipstick and heels from time to time - if they want to - can take it back.:)
 Aura1shine
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 870
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 4:13:46 PM
"Oh, and you're an armchair therapist too. Yay!! Well for your information, my parents are still married to each other. My dad was the department chair of math and sciences at the local community college, and my mom is the manager of HR for the city. So, when I was living with them, I was living an upper middle class lifestyle. I was involved in everything to sports, to boy scouts, to conservatories, to community service. The only "hard" part about my life is that I was always in honors/accelerated classes in middle/high school. "
Sound like you brag about yourself how good you are and above others. You are displaying your arrogance that your parent have no time to teach you to be humility and humble how you have reach this point in life if part of that has not come from the "feminism" by other people to fight for opportunity and giving both of your parent an equal rights to achieve at this point. Well, let me tell you it is HARD for you because you have to work hard to achieve it and the resentment from that shown. My children never complained of being identified as "gifted and talent", got offered by Stanford U in a leadership program, all the ivy colleges want them, and best that many would not hear is "West Point Academy" sent my son an invitation letter to apply. Stopping bragging about yourself and get to the point of discussion not running around trying to attack other views points or calling names other people who present their views on this thread like a mad dog trying to get a bite out of everyone.
I am glad that my kids never displayed this type of behavior even they have more than what you have been bragging about yourself how did you grew up. I guess, they learn well from my teaching.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 871
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 4:54:12 PM
When I go to the supermarket and see the kids collecting shopping carts in the parking lot.........rain, snow, sleet and cold....it's always a male, isn't it. Always.

The gals are always inside the place, nice and warm.

There's "feminism" for ya.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 872
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 8:09:38 PM

My point Thinkinginca, was that it has lost it's positive meaning in today's society, all you have to do is read this thread to see how much negativity it provokes, it has ceased to be about equal rights for women which was the basis for the movement in the first place, the extremes use it as a tool to demean women who chose to be stay at home moms and take a more "traditional" role and others like Rush and his "Femnazi" montra to scare the masses that lesbians are going to take over the world and castrate all men in the process.


I know what you mean about the lable having been poisoned. Like everything else that's great, opponents will twist it to sell their agenda, to play each off for some amusement. That's why I avoid gender wars, it only means something to the indidual, it rarely resembles anything that most people live in.

Being a feminist was once noble cause, just like a union once was, or civil rights marchers, or empathy, conservation, regulations, etc. Just because there are opinionated folks (of either gender) that demean anyone else like a stay home mom, does not mean it was feminism that caused that, though you can say the changing roles of women as a head of household did change the way we view a need for a spouse, be it man or a woman.

And I think it's a false equivalence to compare women fighting to get euqal rights to the same pay, access to education, right to control pregnancy, and right to work in some work places is anything similar to a fat blowhard feeding people his perception of how he feels about that....these are not the equal ends of the extremes.

That's not to say all women are anywhere near admirable...there a bad characters in both sexes that hold useless stereotypes.

A good test, lets just imagine if we roll back everything to how things were in the 50's for women, and see how many would actually want to go back to that time. I doubt you'll find too many women taking that offer....though I'm sure few here will tell me I'm wrong about that too.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 873
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 8:12:02 PM

Any way you slice it women on this forum or a vast majority of them are very insecure with who they really are. One things for sure MY GIRLS are very secure with who they are. I did this by myself, a man. Yet I have never made a claim or been so insecure with myself that I felt the need to say I don't need a woman. I have never felt insecure with myself as to claim to be better at anything than anyone on this thread. Women as a whole have a lot more growing up to do than they realize


That's silly. That's the same as a woman claiming that most divorced men here are deadbeats or bad husbands/fathers. You can disagree about your beliefs, doesn't mean those who you disagree with are "insecure", as if that has anything to do with what they believe about the oppsoite sex....it doesn't. And stating you don't need a man has nothing to do with security..it just means you don't need a man.
 Gertrude13
Joined: 5/14/2012
Msg: 874
Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/20/2012 10:13:57 PM
^^^absolutely!
It would seem to me that the woman who says the opposite - that she "needs" a man - would be the insecure one. If I were a man, I think I would find that type of woman a little off-putting. I would worry that she is incapable of taking care of herself, and that she is with me just because she needs a warm body.

Just because one ex-husband is a deadbeat dad and worse doesn't mean they all are, or even that this is the norm. Just because one woman got more than what is fair in a settlement doesn't mean that all of them do. I'm living proof of that.

And just because one woman who considers herself to be a feminist hates men, this does not mean that man-hating is the norm for a feminists.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 875
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Feminism Your Views
Posted: 5/21/2012 12:36:01 AM

The gals are always inside the place, nice and warm


There's "feminism" for ya

No the women are just smarter to apply and get the cashier jobs where you get to stay inside during the crappy weather,lol, but the guys are learning you see more on cash nowadays while their fellow men are still collecting carts outside.
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