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 Jacknher
Joined: 11/23/2011
Msg: 26
god .... its all in your head say scientists Page 2 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
The opening passage of the bible (Genesis) has been proved to be wrong (creation)


Actually you can blend Genesis and Creation/Evolution together in a believable way.


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. etc etc etc


Nowhere there does it say that the "day" was 24 hours.......Later it says "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, "......actually saying there that the "day" was indeed "generations".
So to me it's not meant to be taken so literally that each "day" was 24 hours...to me it is the story of creation but was told in an ancient language that literally has lost a lot in the translation.
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 27
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 12:03:56 PM
Everyone is entitlled to believe in what they want to believe in. From previous posts we read that such and such pop star was such a nice person when in fact the posters had never met them.
We hand over money to various comic reliefs in the belief that the money is going where they say.
Media feeds the masses and manipulates most people without them realising it and you only have to look at people manipulation with advertising.
If you take most of the posts on this thread , they could be written by one person for all I know . I have no proof that they are different people .
As humans do we exist when we are asleep and are dreams the reality. So going back to the OP any scientist declaring that a greater being due to actions of the mind may as well believe that all his dreams are true as well.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 28
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 1:10:04 PM

So to me it's not meant to be taken so literally that each "day" was 24 hours...to me it is the story of creation but was told in an ancient language that literally has lost a lot in the translation.

Why the judeo-christian creation myth..? Why not the Hindu, or Bhuddist one..?

There was nothing "lost in translation", they knew feck all about it.
Even if you take your "Day/generation" point, they were still completely wrong about the order.
The Earth didn't precede light.
The water didn't precede the land, or the "firmament" (stars)
It's bollux.

It's only in the last few years, that we've begun to understand it, with the advent of new technology.
before Galileo and Copernicus, it was accepted that the "firmament" revolved around the earth.

You have to remember that until 150 years ago, (Darwin), everyone thought all that sh1t was true.
200 years ago, we still had slaves.
50 years ago, we put single mothers in asylums, and still had apartheid colonies.
50 years ago, we still called a priest to "exorcise" people from "possession", whereas now, we treat that with medication.
We're still learning.

2000 years ago, they understood nothing.
Every fire, flood, drought, eruption, or disease, was thought to be the "wrath of god".
Some deluded christian nutters [Med. Term] still make those kinds of claims: that "the New Orleans Hurricane was god's wrath, for homosexuality", apparently...

Everyone is entitlled to believe in what they want to believe in.

Yes, they are, now, but that's contrary to what religions would like.
The "Blasphemy law" was only repealed recently here.(2008)
Before that, religions here, acted just like the Taliban, if you didn't believe, you could be imprisoned or even killed. (You still can, I believe, in Pakistan).
As to the rest of your post, particularly this:

As humans do we exist when we are asleep and are dreams the reality. So going back to the OP any scientist declaring that a greater being due to actions of the mind may as well believe that all his dreams are true as well.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about there. Do you..?
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 29
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 2:35:18 PM
Yes I do if you watched the recent programs on time where scientists tried to expound various theories on time. Your perception of time only exists when you are awake and conscious of it. Therefore when you are asleep for you p
personally you have no perception of time passing. But then again scientists live on theories.
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 2/23/2012
Msg: 30
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 2:43:58 PM

But then again scientists live on theories.


I've said it before but I like repeating myself.It might be a nice surprise if people understood basic concepts before posting complete cods but that might be a bit much to expect. Theory is NOT some sort of made up fairytale.Theory comes from a body of work or evidence and remains the established/ accepted version of events until something shows otherwise.

vvvvvvvvv

just to make it clear.I am not talking about any one particular phenomena with teh word theory attached to the end of it.Rather expressing a degree of frustration at oneonowns lack of understanding of how science in general works.
 dwight_the
Joined: 7/4/2010
Msg: 31
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 2:58:03 PM

I've said it before but I like repeating myself.It might be a nice surprise if people understood basic concepts before posting complete cods but that might be a bit much to expect. Theory is NOT some sort of made up fairytale.
Theory comes from a body of work or evidence and remains the established/ accepted version of events until something shows otherwise.
LOL..
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 32
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/21/2012 3:40:55 PM

There’s an interesting and easy visual test for anyone who’d like to discover if there’s any truth in that theory along with the various functions that each side of the brain is responsible for.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right-brain-v-left-brain/story-e6frf7jo-1111114603615

Strangely enough, when I do that test with my logical head on, the dancer spins the opposite way as to what she did when I didn't have my logical thinking cap on.....most peculiar.

Anti clockwise when i just look. As i was thinking of writing this post.. clockwise. Which probably explains me quite well. The only thing i believe in the bible is God created man in his own image. Therefore I am (we are) equal to and no less than God.



What I don't understand is how any human thinks that their intellect/science can prove or disprove something that, if it does exist, would be waaaaaaay beyond mortal comprehension.

It would be like a single cell bacteria, trying to comprehend the LHC.... But multiplied by about a zillion!

Haha.. try to concentrate..
"Many theoretical physicists (e.g., Stephen Hawking, Edward Witten, Juan Maldacena and Leonard Susskind) believe that string theory is a step towards the correct fundamental description of nature. This is because string theory allows for the consistent combination of quantum field theory and general relativity, agrees with general insights in quantum gravity (such as the holographic principle and Black hole thermodynamics), and because it has passed many non-trivial checks of its internal consistency"
Moral of the story? Try using that one brain cell.
 OneOnOwn
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 33
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 2:34:44 AM
It might be interesting to know the proportion of the population of the world who do or don't believe in a higher being.
My bets would be on the majority believing in ''something'' existing.
I don't think I have been anywhere in the world where there are not temples , churches, shrines along the side of the road to symbolise their religion. Maybe the scientists might like to explain that.
 Dr__Matt
Joined: 2/19/2012
Msg: 34
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 6:45:41 AM

It might be interesting to know the proportion of the population of the world who do or don't believe in a higher being.
My bets would be on the majority believing in ''something'' existing.


In 1600 most people believed the world was flat. Majority opinion doesn't make something more credible.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 35
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 6:46:31 AM
What I don't understand is how any human thinks that their intellect/science can prove or disprove something that, if it does exist, would be waaaaaaay beyond mortal comprehension.

It would be like a single cell bacteria, trying to comprehend the LHC.... But multiplied by about a zillion!

And yet you seem prepared to accept the 'definitions' and declared existence of such a being, which had it's inception 2000 years ago, by much more primitive "mortals", with a far worse "comprehension" (Of anything) who would have you burned as a witch, for communicating via internet "magic"...?
Everything used to be "beyond mortal comprehension"..
We still don't know everything, and no doubt, in another 100 years, they will be laughing at our understanding and beliefs, but we're getting there, we know more than we did 50 years ago, or 100 years ago. We definitely know more than they did when they attributed everything to superstitious beliefs, like 'god', or 'gods', 2000 years ago, (or 5,000, or 8,000, depending on which 'definition' you're working from)
I also can't help noticing, that you only speak of such a hypothetical being in the singular, but many still believe in a multitude of different 'gods'.
I'm far more optimistic, (or perhaps conceited..?), I don't believe that there's anything that's "beyond human comprehension".
I think that's just religious dogma, designed to frighten people away from looking for rational explanations. "Some things we weren't meant to know". Says who..? The priests, who obviously don't want their drivel challenged, or scrutinised.

It might be interesting to know the proportion of the population of the world who do or don't believe in a higher being.
My bets would be on the majority believing in ''something'' existing.

A trillion billion flies eat sh1t too. Sometimes sheer numbers are no indication of 'correctness'.
But I think it would be more interesting, to plot how the above proportions have, or are changing, over time.
It takes time for new information to reach everyone.

I don't think I have been anywhere in the world where there are not temples , churches, shrines along the side of the road to symbolise their religion. Maybe the scientists might like to explain that.


The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.
~Socrates

Maybe it would be better if you knew a little bit about history, then, perhaps it wouldn't need to be "explained" to you..?
Religious belief has been institutionalised in many societies, under penalty of death for non-believers.
You could start with the invention of the "Church of England", and see what they did to catholics, and 'heretics'.
Look at how 'christianity' has been spread throughout Africa, and all of this country's former 'colonies'.
Or look at any other modern day 'theocracy'.
Religions have been established, and perpetuated, by violence, almost everywhere.
According to the bible, it's what "god" wanted:
Deuteronomy:

20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

They are still doing all that "smiting" sh1t, in Israel, because THEY believe that "god gave them the land".
It's a shame he forgot to give them the Deeds too, it would have saved an awful lot of deaths.

But of course, religious people will always claim that a belief in "god" is only a benign, harmless, and beneficial thing.
So how come they've been killing each other, over the "holy land", for over 2000 years..?

People are entitled to believe in whatever "woo-woo" makes them happy.
But I'm also entitled to say, with absolute certainty, that it's all primitive BS.
 stillsparkly
Joined: 5/26/2010
Msg: 36
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 7:01:52 AM
In my humble opinion I think religion is a load of old bvllocks!
But I dont feel passionate about disliking religion - I simply dont care!
The scientists that have made this amazing discovery that "god" is all in the head - maybe need to put their energies and money elsewhere!
People of "faith" in my opinion tend to be the most blind - they will come up with a justification for everything to support what they believe in no matter how fairy tale like it apears to the "non believers "
Im not saying its right or wrong before the god squad come to get me - I just think that a persons existance all revolves around their own perceptions / beliefs about things and no amount of scientific "facts" are going to change that x
 Sirenara
Joined: 8/7/2011
Msg: 37
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 8:38:15 AM
I don't believe scientists know as much as some of them think they do...............this study was done on TWENTY people, that's all 20.

Science findings are shifting all the time anyway, in a few years this one will have changed just like all those food warning scares we get from scientists that change a few years later. One minute this or that is bad for you after "scientific studies," shows it is harmful for you, then it changes again to now it's OK.

I don't necessarily believe in the old dead white guy with a long beard and blue robe sitting on his throne in the sky but I do believe in "something."
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 38
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 8:40:20 AM
we are far more limited by our ability to refuse to accept that we could indeed know much more, decade upon decade.

the powers of the paranormal and astrology elude me as well, but not because it is waaaaaay too clever to fathom out! they're palpable bollocks and belong in the looney tent at crystal healing festivals.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 39
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 8:46:42 AM

Maybe you missed it amongst your fanatical ravings, but I am not remotely religious and I don't believe in God - I've only mentioned it a few times, in pretty much every thread of this nature. You might have also missed the bit, when I said that I don't really pay attention to various holy texts because they were written by man - I will admit, once again, that I do like the idea of there being a cosmic architect.

Your ad hominem attack implies I've personally 'touched a nerve', or that you've somehow taken my interest in this topic, personally. I'm pretty sure you'd beat me on both word-counts, or post counts, on a great many topics, so "fanatical ravings" seems slightly hypocritical.
You say "I do like the idea of there being a cosmic architect." Again singular, seeming to show that you have a monotheistic bias, probably subconsciously gleaned from your environment. Do you also like the idea of a "devil"..? As all of the 'teachings' show them to be two sides of the same coin. If not, why not..?

You remind me of my fellow students in Philosophy who just refused to accept the possibility that everything we know is possibly just an idea and none of existence is "real". Their minds couldn't comprehend that such a thing could even be possible and therefore they ruled it out as nonsense.
Things existed before I was born, (I have actual proof!) and they (things) will continue to exist after I've died, though my own subjective 'reality' (my mind) will no longer 'exist'. Perhaps it's you, who can't comprehend that..?

There are some things my mind cannot comprehend - the paranormal, the power of astrology, how some people just can't accept that people don't like them, etc -

There's no such thing as "paranormal".
"Astrology" has no "power".
Some people are just 'stupid'.
What's so difficult to "comprehend"...?

and I rail against the notions, but... and this is a big but (and I cannot lie)... I accept the possibility, that just because I don't/can't believe it to be true, doesn't mean that I am right.

That's a very healthy viewpoint. We can only 'work' with the information we've gathered so far.
On another forum, I used to have the 'tag-line': "One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing ~Socrates."
We're still learning, and gaining new insights. But that doesn't mean we should ignore all of the evidence so far. Or perpetuate old beliefs.
Science has disproved many previously held beliefs. Religion is just one of them.

The self-righteous and blinkered members of both camps (believers vs non-believers) refuse to believe that they might be wrong... and I find that a bit sad.

I find it "a bit sad" that women have been killed, after they've been raped, or that homosexuals have been killed, that children have been killed, and mutilated, for religious beliefs. I find it "a bit sad" that religious people in the west, "reincarnated" (NPI) the "Tribe of Israel", 2000 years later, and bulldozed entire villages, and murdered their populations. For a belief.
It's not a question of "refusing to believe I'm wrong", I can 'un-pick' the bible, a line at a time, and PROVE it to be wrong, not just in my opinion. (Take the Deuteronomy section quoted above, for example)
I find the self-righteousness of agnostics, smugly declaring that 'fence-sitting' to be the only "correct" view, to be a bit sad, as well as displaying both a lack courage, and commitment.

So to repeat my point, I don't think that humans can truly comprehend the idea of a being that can do ANYTHING.

I'm fully capable of comprehending the concept, and that it's a primitive fiction.

I also believe that Science cannot accept something to be true, when it has proven it to be impossible.

I know, what a bummer..

We are limited by out current capabilities. If there becomes a time when we can do anything and understand everything... well, we won't need to question the existence of God, because we will be "gods"

If you've ever flown anywhere, at 35,000 ft, at over 400mph., by the standards of the people who invented all known 'gods', you already are one.

You see religion as the problem. Whereas I think the problem lies with SOME people.

Yes, I do. A massive problem, world-wide.
You are an apologist for religion, probably because you don't want to offend the vast majority of people who still believe, who actually do no harm.
The "SOME people" you refer to, get their ideas from the religious texts, like the one above, open your eyes.
The only thing that's "not negotiable", is "The word of god". It can't BE edited.
Read the bible, or the Koran, or the Tora, they all advocate violence, because all three "worship" the "Old Testament", and believe it to be the "Word of God", as dictated to "Abraham", "Moses", and the rest.
You're basically saying that "its sad" that I'm not prepared to consider that "the truth".
I think that's ridiculous.
 mazeyh
Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 40
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 8:52:55 AM

I don't believe scientists know as much as some of them think they do...............this study was done on TWENTY people, that's all 20.

Science findings are shifting all the time anyway, in a few years this one will have changed just like all those food warning scares we get from scientists that change a few years later. One minute this or that is bad for you after "scientific studies," then it changes again to now it's OK.


.........and whoever did the research wouldn't have made any definitive claims for it.Not if they ever wanted to be taken seriously again by their peers. You might notice the word 'suggests' in the op.Researchers will only ever make tentative claims because they know darn well they're onto a hiding if they don't.

Meta analysis ( combining results from all known studies) is the only thing that will show trends and patterns.It's the media who get whiff of a study and splash it all over as if it were the truth, the law and the holy grail.If you want to know stuff about health in particular go and read some of the reviews at cochrane.org , to get an idea of the overall picture behind a news item.

and for anyone who might be interested there is a lovely little page at CERN trying to explain the difference between a theoretical phyicist and an experimental. haha well I liked it anyway and there's no accounting for taste.
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/people/Experimentalists-en.html
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 41
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 9:29:19 AM
what kind of philosophy did you study - and where?
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 42
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 10:04:21 AM
@11
generally scientist dont burn, murder or lock people away for life for proving a theory wrong ....


Of course all those lovely doctors in Auschwitz, Belsen, Dr. Mengele, all just harmlessly upholding the Hippocratic oath.... do me a favour... Scientists and doctors; all lovely hard-working people... no just humans capable of savagery , like everyone else...

@36
It might be interesting to know the proportion of the population of the world who do or don't believe in a higher being.
My bets would be on the majority believing in ''something'' existing.
I don't think I have been anywhere in the world where there are not temples , churches, shrines along the side of the road to symbolise their religion. Maybe the scientists might like to explain that.


Of course the majority in the world believe in something, atheism is relatively new phenomenon...
I am willing to bet probably nearly everyone on this page, including all the agnostics and atheists had believing grandparents...
I think the spiritual capacity, the ability to easily conceive of things beyond our physical realm is one of the things that makes us unique as humans... It also makes me wonder why we all have it...
Making a decision one day to ignore something doesn't make it go away....
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 43
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 10:49:58 AM
it is exactly the believing grandparents that conditions the offspring to accept what has always been accepted - accepted as part of the social order... like flat earthism, the juju monster and the volcano, the wrath of god inflicted in a tidal wave or an alqaeda air assault on homosexual cities

we are blessed with knowledge and a zeitgeist that wasn't available to our grandparents, nor to the substantially catholic doctors of the concentration camps

you have your own brain an a whole generation of radical new knowledge - use it.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 44
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:14:26 AM
I wasn't referring to the word count. I meant the same kind of outbursts that I'd expect to see from some hardcore god-botherers.

And yet in your first post, you said
At its most basic form, I have no issues with religion.
If someone has faith in God and that brings them peace and comfort, then go for it and fvck the naysayers."

Which particular "outburst" of mine, were you referring to, when you described my post as "your fanatical ravings"..?


it's the people at the extremes on either side that bug me... Their absolute sureness that they are right and people who believe differently have to be idiots, or blinkered or naive.

And yet YOU described people who disagreed with YOU, as "self-righteous and blinkeredand "a bit sad".. Hmmm..


You are thinking in terms of some god who created us and expects us to live a certain way and do what he wants us to.

Nope, pay attention, I don't believe in "god/gods". I don't even "like the idea".
I don't think "he" created us, nor do I think "he" has any expectations, because "he " doesn't exist".

You want to blame a concept and religious texts written by people and I just want to blame people (seeing as they're the ones who can make a choice whereas the other things have no sentience)

You seem very confused.
Yes, people wrote the bible (at a time when they knew no better) and other people choose to implement those "rules" today.
So why say; "At its most basic form, I have no issues with religion."..? When it's the "rules" of those very religions, which tell people to kill their wives, or children or believers in other faiths..?

That's like saying: "It's not Osama Bin Laden's ('non-sentient') instructions to kill, it's the people who do the killing, who are to blame". The reality is that they are both to blame.

The bible/tora/koran are full of race-hate, and incitement to commit violent crime.
You seem to be saying that I'm somehow "fanatical" for having objections to that.
You say that YOU "have no issues with religion." so you are an "apologist".


As I said, I wouldn't blame religion for the actions of some people, in the same way that I wouldn't blame all those other things I mentioned for the actions of some people. I think people should take responsibility for their own actions... Whereas it would seem you want to pass it on to an abstract concept.

The existence, (or not,) of "god" is an "abstract concept". (because it doesn't exist!)
The instructions and beliefs of each religion, are very clear, tangible, and real.
Killing your wife if she disobeys you, or hanging homosexuals, or other deemed "sinners", are not "abstract concepts". "Sin" is an abstract concept... Are you sure you studied philosophy..?

So as I couldn't give a fvck about some holy book, why would I think it's sad what you think of what's inside it? So basically... you were wrong.

You said: "The self-righteous and blinkered members of both camps (believers vs non-believers) refuse to believe that they might be wrong... and I find that a bit sad."

So, Why is it "sad", for me to believe that killing your wife, your children, homosexuals, or "non-believers", as instructed in the bible, to be "wrong"..?
Is there really a possibility that I am "wrong", in thinking that's "wrong"..?
Why is it "sad" that I am critical of the bible, and the "rules" of all three "Abrahamic faiths", who believe that what they do, is the "will of god".

Your criticism of my objections to the barbaric beliefs of superstitious neolithic farmers, being perpetuated into the future, all done from the guise of some 'superior' agnostic position, is nothing short of apathy. Particularly when combined with your statement, that you "have no issues with religion".

I'm no "activist", but I raise my objections, when given the opportunity. As in this debate. They are not "Fanatical ravings".
If you don't like it, read another thread.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".
 drinkofcoolant
Joined: 10/2/2007
Msg: 45
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:57:16 AM
I hate the arrogance of mainstream Science. Its almost like its become the new
religion. Wasting countless amounts of money on their dogmatic string theory opinions and pointless philosophical arguments among others.

What is the reason for the constant war with religion? That's not even important. Its almost like its trying to deflect attention away from itself.

I would suggest we've forgotten more about Science and Physics in recent years than we've gained, we're certainly not putting it to any practical use.

We need an inexpensive fuel source to replace the oil reserves that are constantly rising in price and leaving more and more people in poverty, otherwise we're going to be in the deepest of $h!T.
Not to mention the pointless foreign policy.

With alternatives such as Victor Schauberger's Implosive Centripetal motion vortices that he discovered were 27.5 times more powerful than the explosive Centrifugal version of the 1940s (and clean) Every Engine today is based on Centrifugal force or explosion.

Then there's Nikola Tesla's method of extracting energy from the vacuum, then transmitting it to the world for free use which was his intention with his Long Island Transmitter however what we got was the birth of radio instead with Marconi's version.

There are many more alternatives that could be very important to us but in its arrogance Mainstream Science would rather debate religion or the relevance of its pointless string theory.

Science is bought and paid for.
 lightstar1
Joined: 2/21/2012
Msg: 46
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/22/2012 1:56:29 PM
The phrase 'stealing in the name of the Lord' has a lot or resonance in our world today.
Churches and charities both harvest money from the poor and the gullible even more efficiently than a combine cuts wheat.
As a practising agnostic, I can only hope that if there is a Greater Power (other than Microsoft) that we have to answer to, these sanctimonious ,lying, thieving, deceiving & misrepresentational con artists get their just deserts.

 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 47
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/23/2012 6:18:13 AM
the problem when you start to use infinity to describe a possibility then the assumption becomes unlikely but infinitely possible..
 SGB2012
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 48
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/23/2012 7:21:35 AM
Actually this evidence does not tell us that God is all in the mind, it suggests that a sense of spirituality can be understood neurologically. The two are different things entirely!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 49
view profile
History
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/23/2012 9:51:16 AM
....According to mathamatics there is an infinite number of universes,

Citation to support that please.
The universe is 13.7 billion years old.

It means a monkey can indeed write the sonnets of Shakespeare, its calculated it would take longer then our universe has existed and is the same odds as winning the lottery for 29,000 yrs in a row.

I don't think you've fully understood that particular "thought experiment", nor statistical probability in general. .
We have neither an infinite number of monkeys typing, nor an infinite amount of time. But even if we did, the chances of success are still effectively zero, and can easily be calculated.

Even if the observable universe were filled with monkeys the size of atoms typing from now until the heat death of the universe, their total probability to produce a single instance of Hamlet would still be a great many orders of magnitude less than one in 10(to the power of)183,800. As Kittel and Kroemer put it, "The probability of Hamlet is therefore zero in any operational sense of an event...", and the statement that the monkeys must eventually succeed "gives a misleading conclusion about very, very large numbers." This is from their textbook on thermodynamics, the field whose statistical foundations motivated the first known expositions of typing monkeys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Numbers are infinte,therefore so is time, thus everything is possible.
This is proven by mathamatics, its not some theory, thus the probability of intelligence creating the universe as opposed it it simply existing out of random chaos is highly possible.

(my emphasis)
Define "highly possible".
It's not at all "highly possible". Any more than any other primitive creation myth is "highly possible".
eg That the earth is carried on the back of a giant turtle, standing on the back of an elephant etc.
Their origins are anthropologically interesting, none the less.
Read more creation myths here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths


There are more universes out there then grains of sands that exist on Earth.

It means conventional scientific theories may exit on our 3D planet but outside it all bets are off, anything is possible.

It's really more of a "4D" Planet (at least!)
The laws of physics, apply universally.
There may be "other dimensions", "string theory" etc, and things we don't yet understand, eg. "Dark Matter", "Dark Energy", and "Dark Flow". etc.
But none of those will ever turn out to be an "intelligent, sentient being", which gives a flying sh1t about what any one particular species, on any one particular planet, in any one particular Galaxy, does.

We evolved our 'morality', by consensus, it wasn't "dictated" by some 'deity'.
It changes, over time, and completely, under different circumstances. (Survival is an instinct, not an agreed 'rule')
I taught my children "the golden rule", because it makes sense, and it was around for eons before christianity claimed it.
Because largely, we've agreed to co-operate, and strive for harmonious co-existence, we've realised that it's in our best interests, to minimises conflict.

In his book, "The God Delusion", Dawkins speculates about the seemingly inherent 'nature' of people to 'want' gods, from an anthropological point of view. How these myths have endured, over time, and how they seem to have been a 'running theme', throughout our existence, to date.

Personally, I think it's all about knowledge.
I can't imagine "un-learning" all that I know now.
If I could imagine myself to be "living wild", trying to "make sense" of everything I saw, would be very difficult. Life is already scary and difficult to understand, even with 'all mod cons'.
Primitive people attributed the seemingly random nature of personally catastrophic events, to deities.
Life, Death, disease, and disasters were thus given 'meanings'.
Humans like "meanings", particularly where life and death are concerned.

It's really egotistical (IMO) to suppose yourself to have some "importance". On a cosmological scale, even individuals like Caeser, Hitler, or Ghengis Khan, are insignificant.

My life has the same "value" as that of any insect.
That doesn't trouble me at all, nor stop me from enjoying it, and living it to the full.
I find life (mostly) very enjoyable, and accept it for what it is. I find it fascinating, and intriguing, Art, Science,History, I'm interested in our pasts, and how we arrived at the point we're at.
I can fully understand how the various "god/gods" myths arose, in context.
But, I have no "need" for deities. I know how we got here.
There really are no "Gods".

I wouldn't mind people believing in their various versions of "gods" at all, if it were harmless, and benign, (as they claim.)
But a cursory look at "Israel", and the "Holy Land", and it's history, or any modern 'theocracy', demonstrates otherwise.

Religions, Like "Race", "Tribe", and "Nationality" are just another one of those "social constructs", which seems to serve no purpose, other than to divide. ( And to elevate some individuals above their meritocratic status, but based on some forms of self-declared extreme 'piety', which in reality, is nothing more than a form of 'OCD')
The history of all three Abrahamic Faiths are littered with wars and violence, and that continues today.

Religions are inflexible, and uncompromising, by their nature.
They can't negotiate on the "word of god", whichever word, and whichever "god" that is..
They can't be edited, or changed.
Such invented divisions, and unwillingness to compromise, are the basis of wars. And I hate wars.
I believe there is no "Us" and "Them", at all.
Only Us.
"Idealistic"..? "Unachievable"..? ~Maybe..
But without ideals, we wouldn't even know which direction to be headed in.
The sooner we get rid of our beliefs in our different religions, and "gods", the better off we'll all be.
 indigovelvet
Joined: 5/9/2010
Msg: 50
god .... its all in your head say scientists
Posted: 4/24/2012 4:07:01 AM

should this be evidence of all the waffle about religion


... judging by this thread... YES!


You cannot rule out a higher intelligent form being behind it, you dont have the knowledge to do so or a fragment of something much larger.


So there's still a chance that the wizard from Oz might put in an appearance before I die? Oh good.
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