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 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 26
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Is Materialism wrong? Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Ging:

Very well said. Then we agree morality cannot be strictly subjective, it must be a combination of objective and subjective.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 27
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 12:17:54 AM
Yes we agree, though I would argue that there are relatively few objective morals and that everyone (bar psychopaths) agree about those.

That is why, when I said "in which case every value system other than your own is 'wrong' by definition." I didn't even bother mentioning those few universal morals on the assumption that they were part of the common ground and covered by the caveat 'other than your own'.

To me anything that is put forward for debate is going to be subjective and therefore relative to the morals of the participants.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 28
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 12:27:10 AM
Whether there exists absolute right or wrong morals is another discussion entirely.



I would also add that if we had been talking about strict moral relitivisum then the above statement would be incorrect. By definition strict moral relitivisum would mean the absences of any universal moral truths.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 29
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 12:32:26 AM
Of course, but I was never advocating strict moral relativism (by which I take it you mean meta-ethical or normative), merely descriptive moral relativism.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 30
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 12:45:36 AM
Ging:

no meta-ethics and normative ethics are philosophical inquiries into the nature of what is right and what is wrong. A strict adherence to moral relitivisum would be a statement that there is no universal moral truth.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 31
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 12:59:11 AM
Oh ok, I was just going off the wikipedia article on moral relativism. It cites this source: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-relativism/#ForArg which interestingly has a section (#6) on the kind of mixed objective/subjective positions we're agreeing on. Looks like we're about 20 years too late to claim the breakthrough. lol
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 32
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 1:13:12 AM
It's cool, philosophy is about as complicated as physics now. I wish I could make a significant brake through in either. But in order to do that one must constantly be on the cuting edge. For most of us it really is no way to live life.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 33
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 1:34:03 AM
Well there are references up to at least 2006, so its still near the cutting edge. It should be encouraging considering philosophy has been thought about for thousands of years and we can just think up stuff ourselves that is that current.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 34
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 1:56:01 AM
Yes, encouraging. It would probably make for a really good thread. Unfortunately I do not have the time to devote to such a lengthy conversations. The last few lengthy conversation I have been involved in, on here, I have been forced to abandon because of more pressing concerns.
 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 35
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 9:55:04 AM

A strict moral relitivist point of view. I can't agree with that. It completely rejects objectivity as a form of thought. No man is an island unto himself.


I know there's no context here but I only wanted to ask why moral relativism has anything to do witht the ability to think objectively. I would suggest the latter can often lead to the former.
 justoutcruisin
Joined: 3/28/2011
Msg: 36
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 11:15:46 AM
BJC.....


You could be lonely, without being materialistic though, and some cope by buying things


I find the less I have the more I can focus on what is important to me.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 37
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Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 4/29/2012 11:51:46 AM
musicfellow38:


If we abandon universal moral truths for strict subjective morality then we abandon objectivity in its most basic form, morally speaking of course. If one will not acknowledge objectivity as being universally relevant, how can one justify it in any other regard?

The context is morality.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 38
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/1/2012 9:05:10 PM
If you can be happy without things....
you can be happy in any circumstance.
to me, that is a better path than...
I'm not happy so I better get some stuff.

Don't get me wrong,
If you got fun stuff....
and are happy....
be happy!

But if your stuff was removed...
and you were to be unhappy because of that....
then I'm guessing you were not really happy at all.
Just distracted from knowing that you are not.

So in my view,
merely being distracted from misery,
is not the same as true happiness.
As true happiness needs no props.
:-P
 LimesnAppl
Joined: 4/28/2012
Msg: 39
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/2/2012 12:26:31 AM
Once you have nothing you really appreciate next to "nothing". When you are materialistic you value rare items etc. I guess it's debatable but for the most part. A 5,000$ bottle of wine will do you no better then a 15$ one.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 40
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/2/2012 6:35:40 AM
Why are you making this an "either/or" situation?

I want my material "things," but I also want a partner. Those wants are not incompatible.

And I am going to play the age card: you are 24 years old, so you haven't truly had time to experience "things" and a long-term relationship. I walked away from a very comfortable life because I could no longer face living with my ex-husband for another 25 years. The material comforts he offered were not worth the life I would have been living. By your calculations, I should have stayed because of the lifestyle, eh?
 RainGrimoire
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 41
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/2/2012 2:42:58 PM
It's wrong when it's all one considers. It's wrong when one measures themselves and everyone around them by the mythical "status" symbolism. It's wrong when they use objects as a facade of superiority over others. Admire character before matters of gain, it's a better path.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 42
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/2/2012 3:24:12 PM

It's wrong when it's all one considers. It's wrong when one measures themselves and everyone around them by the mythical "status" symbolism. It's wrong when they use objects as a facade of superiority over others. Admire character before matters of gain, it's a better path.


You are still making it an either/or situation.

I have character and a few possessions.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 43
Is Materialism wrong?
Posted: 5/3/2012 4:09:37 PM
Materialism predisposes one to affluenza.

Love people. Use things.

affluenza, n. a painful, contagious, socially transmitted condition of overload, debt, anxiety and waste resulting from the dogged pursuit of more.[1]

affluenza, n. 1. The bloated, sluggish and unfulfilled feeling that results from efforts to keep up with the Joneses. 2. An epidemic of stress, overwork, waste and indebtedness caused by the pursuit of the American Dream. 3. An unsustainable addiction to economic growth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza
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